Satan is not Lucifer. , page 13

posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 07:11 PM

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reply to post by queenannie38

Renown = shem (name)...Men who had made a name for themselves; men of authority and/or honor. VIP’s

That is what it means to us today but as used there it can't be correct. In Gen.6:4 it is speaking about giants, which came about because of the fallen angels procreating with daughters of Adam. It was so wicked that God flooded the earth (whether in just that area or not, I don't know).

So....when the phrase "men of renown" is used it isn't a good thing. Bullinger, in a sidenote in the Companion Bible, states: "renown. Heb. the men of name. The "heroes" of the Greek mythology. The remains of primitive truth, corrupted in transmission."

I enjoyed reading your post about the beginning and agree with much of it ..... still, there was an age before our present age. I don't have time to go into it tonight but hopefully will in the morning and will give you the scriptures that point to it.

queenannie38

posted on Aug, 24 2007 @ 08:05 PM

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Originally posted by whirlwind
That is what it means to us today but as used there it can't be correct. In Gen.6:4 it is speaking about giants, which came about because of the fallen angels procreating with daughters of Adam.

Actually, the word 'shem' literally meant that, then and now. Shem means 'name.'

Noah, Methuselah, and Enoch were all 'men of renown' whom we remember even unto this day!

It was so wicked that God flooded the earth (whether in just that area or not, I don't know).

NOT because of the mating but because of Azazel who taught the art of warfare, weapons, and violence upon one another.

This is basically the lesson given in the story of Cain and Abel - which is a condensed narrative of the final history of the last age (many call Atlantis) when the Sons of the Law of One and the Sons of Belial differed to the point of things coming to a cataclysmic finale. And then the end of the ice age.

But the term 'men of renown' is a relative term - not necessarily good or bad...just as one can be famous or infamous!

I enjoyed reading your post about the beginning and agree with much of it ..... still, there was an age before our present age.

Thank you.

Ditto!

Regarding ages, two, actually (that I know of and which are recorded in various ways in the record of mankind).

Lemuria and then Atlantis. Lemuria was located in the area of the Pacific Ocean and Atlantis was in the west.

I don't have time to go into it tonight but hopefully will in the morning and will give you the scriptures that point to it.

You don't have to bother; unless you want to do it for the benefit of other readers.

What I was trying to point out is that when we begin in Genesis, we begin with OUR history....even though we are not the first, this is OUR time and so the lessons we learn must be ours and not borrowed. Many of us carry with us memories and understandings from those earlier ages and so, in a way, they do carry over to our present. But we were given a NEW foundation to build upon - new and pure and without inherited guilt.

And now even Azazel has been judged; there is no reason for any of us to continue to fear or place blame in the hopes of altering events that have already taken place (and for reasons necessary for our growth, both pleasant and insufferable).

What is evil in the heart of man is fear, envy, and greed. Things that cause inclinations toward bodily harm and emotional/mental damage of our brother-man. But if there had been no descent of spirit into matter (although it was a rough and arduous journey all the way) then we would not be the creatures we are today. We would probably still be living in caves and scraping hides with the scapulae of large animals.

But the journey of life is just what it should be - and journeys progress onward...just as the Angel of the LORD told Lot's wife:

DON'T LOOK BACK!

MikeboydUS

posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 10:08 AM

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Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by MikeboydUS

I'm still missing the connection. ...The Beni Elohim from Genesis, Sons of G-d, they make appearances all over the Tanakh or the Jewish Testament. I have never heard of the ones who descended numbering more than a few hundred....The non canonical Book of Enoch says it was only a couple of hundred. Jude directly quotes the Book of Enoch in regards to the Beni Elohim.

There was more than one time this happened.

Gen.6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Who were those giant "mighty men", men of renown" if not the giant figures of mythology?

The 1/3 of stars is written as prophecy not history. If Satan had fallen during a rebellion around the time of Creation, He would not of been allowed to roam free on earth or enter the Adatel in Job or Zechariah. He would of been isolated and bound like the beings who were the progenitors of the Nephilim.

He rebelled before the beginning of this age and that was the reason for the chaos, the Tohu Va'Bohu. As God tells us in Isaiah 45:18, He "created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited", not void as it is found in Gen.1:2.

Dont forget The Darkness CHOSECH , this Darkness is not merely an absence of Light.

That's true but there is a difference in the "darkness" in those verses. I don't quite understand it but the darkness that "was upon the face of the deep" was what God divided from the Light. Is that darkness the same darkness He dwells in or was that darkness evil. If Christ is the light of the world then who is the darkness?

There are no Stars, No Host of Heaven yet at this point. The Satan of Job hasnt even been created yet. How could a being not even created yet draw down others who had not been created yet. That doesnt happen till verse 14.

He was created in the first age, as were we. Verse 14 refers to this 2nd age.

There isnt any room for the idea your presenting. For speculation purposes had there been another creation G-d would of utterly annihilated it, along with any beings within it. G-d is the Only One that is Eternal.

He did annihilate it. That age was the one in which the dinosaurs lived. This age began around 14,000 years ago.

The event is called the katabole. The foundation of this age was a "throwing down, casting down, descent", it "frequently denotes opposition,distribution, or intensity". God destroyed everything and it was so violent the plates split apart. That is the reason we find African animal bones in Nebraska.

I dont disagree with the Nephilim/Giants comparison. Thats pretty much what it says in the Book of Enoch. I agree they would of been like the Demigods of myth as well. The Host or their parents have normally been the ones associated with other gods. In Enoch it describes types of Nephilim. They fought each other and some even made humans into livestock. I'll have to find references to it, but I think they rebelled against their Parents like the Gigantomachy of Greek myth.

IF for Speculation purposes there was a creation before this one, whatever resulted in its destruction would not of involved the host of heaven. They had not been created yet. Please show why it would of been Satan who is a member of The Host. NO Stars, Angels had been created. Where did you get the idea that humanity was created before the Sixth Day?

Think about this Heaven was not even created yet.

How can there be a rebellion in Heaven by anyone if it does not exist yet?

The Darkness that G-d dwells in is not evil. Its like a Veil or Threshold between G-d and Creation. It can be quite Horrifying like when the Egyptians experienced it in the Ninth Plague. It may even be the Outer Darkness of your Testament where there are those who are weeping and gnashing teeth. Most people think that the Outer Darkness is hell but hell is Gehenna, The "Fiery" Waste Pit. Notice this Outer Darkness talks about the Sons of the Kingdom being expelled into it. That would make sense if they are being expelled from G-d's Presence into the Darkness that is the Threshold between the Divine and Creation. I think it may be related to the Gulf or Chasm in Kabbalah that seperates the Supernal Sephiroth from the other Seven.

If the Earth was Tohu Va'Bohu there wold be no fossils, no remnant of an earlier world. It would of been in a state of Confusion. Imagine everything on earth in side of Cosmic Blender. Nothing is uniform, nothing has identity. Its all unmanifest potential.

Humanity has a very dim understanding of time and most people miss the whole point about Earth being created Mature. Adam was created as an Adult. The trees and animals created as fully grown. The Seas, Mountains, Rivers, Forests, and the Entire Earth was Created with vast Age. There are a number of Israeli physicists who have written on the subject of Time Dilation and the creation of Earth. I think they are on to something. Time as we know it is misunderstood by most people.

[edit on 25/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

queenannie38

posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 11:51 AM

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Nephilim = 'fellers' (meaning those who cause to fall)

AS IN:

The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it. I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and sets it up over it the basest of men.
Daniel 4:12-17

Nebuchadnezzar's tree was felled. Chopped down. The watchers saw, reported to the holy ones, and the Most High ordered the fellers to hew it down.

There are
Nephilims
Rephaims:

H7497
From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051.

Cherubims
Zuzims
Emims
Anakims
Horims
Zamzummims
Avims

ONLY the Anakim, Rephaim, and Zamzummins are referred to as 'giants.'

The Hebrew doesn't indicate the Nephilim were giants; only mighty men -bullys/tyrants. It takes a 'mighty man' to chop down a tree. The translation of Nephilim as just 'giants' is a mistake in the English translations.

The tyrants mated and the offspring became 'gibbor' - powerful men - perhaps tyrannical; probably only in part.

THEN:

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Genesis 6:5-6

Use your lexicons!!!

And. also, 'time' as we know it does NOT exist except for us.

There is a lesson in all this - THE lesson....God cut down His sons who were ruling creation as tyrants and bullies; nevertheless, ONE learned the lesson of humility and even though cut down to be made lesser than the angels and dwelling amongst the grass that fades away (as all flesh does, see James' epistle), the stump left in the ground would regrow into its glory.

The grass comes and goes; the stump remains and therefore so does the root of the tree.

Nebuchadnezzar.
Babylon/Nineveh.

Because Nebuchadnezzar REPENTED of his ways. After 7 (7000) years.
His kingdom will be restored and will be an everlasting kingdom.

If you don't believe me, read and re-read Daniel chapter 7; and also Jeremiah 27-29 and think about that which you are teaching as truth to those that wish to know the will of God.

My brothers, do not be many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
James 3:1

Put them in memory of these things, charging them before the Lord not to dispute about words to no profit, to the subverting of the hearers. Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-15

whirlwind

posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 07:11 PM

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reply to post by MikeboydUS

IF for Speculation purposes there was a creation before this one, whatever resulted in its destruction would not of involved the host of heaven. They had not been created yet. Please show why it would of been Satan who is a member of The Host. NO Stars, Angels had been created. Where did you get the idea that humanity was created before the Sixth Day

Animals were flesh in the first age but men were not. Perhaps they had the same type of body we will have in the next age. It will have mass but is not flesh, not corruptible. We find fossils of animals but not humans (the skulls of what they call ancient man are apes or some type of extinct relative of theirs - not ours).

We know that there was an age, a first heaven and earth age, before the one we are now in. In that first age Satan was loved by God and called the king of Tyrus:

Ez.28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13.Thou has been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering.......

Satan was in the Garden of Eden and God loved him, thought him beautiful but.....he rebelled. This obviously predates Adam and would be the time period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Isaiah tells us of his fall:

Is.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" (Nations in that age!)

If Satan had been up to his "stuff" God would not have said that "it was very good" in the creation narrative. He didn't say that until Gen.1:3. Also, this could be why Satan is referred to as king of Tyrus in one verse and then he is demoted to prince of Tyrus (Ez.28:2 & 12).

He rebelled in that first age and took 1/3 of God's children with him:

Rev.12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven
and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born

Instead of God killing His children he instead destroyed the age. In this present 2nd age, all of us must be born of woman and make our minds up as to who we follow. This age is a spiritual war and the 3rd age is about spiritual judgment. That is why He was so angry at the fallen angels for by-passing being born - for that reason and the things they taught men God sent the flood of Noah. Satan and his angels, from the beginning, tried to corrupt the line that would produce Christ but Noah was "perfect in his generation" and had not been contaminated from his ancestry to Adam.

So...When we read Gen.1:1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, we see that He didn't say when that begining was but science tells us it was billions of years old. Also note that there the word is "heaven" while in chapter two it has become "heavens" (2nd. heaven)

Gen.1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

Was can also be translated as "became" and most modern Bibles now footnote Gen.1:2 as - And the earth became without form......

1:2 (continued) And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

That is when the first day of this age began.

Peter teaches us about the first age in 2 Peter 3:

5.For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water.
6.Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water perished:
7.But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store......

Our world and heaven did not perish in Noah's flood.
Continued

MikeboydUS

posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by MikeboydUS

IF for Speculation purposes there was a creation before this one, whatever resulted in its destruction would not of involved the host of heaven. They had not been created yet. Please show why it would of been Satan who is a member of The Host. NO Stars, Angels had been created. Where did you get the idea that humanity was created before the Sixth Day

Animals were flesh in the first age but men were not. Perhaps they had the same type of body we will have in the next age. It will have mass but is not flesh, not corruptible. We find fossils of animals but not humans (the skulls of what they call ancient man are apes or some type of extinct relative of theirs - not ours).

We know that there was an age, a first heaven and earth age, before the one we are now in. In that first age Satan was loved by God and called the king of Tyrus:

Ez.28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13.Thou has been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering.......

Satan was in the Garden of Eden and God loved him, thought him beautiful but.....he rebelled. This obviously predates Adam and would be the time period between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Isaiah tells us of his fall:

Is.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" (Nations in that age!)

If Satan had been up to his "stuff" God would not have said that "it was very good" in the creation narrative. He didn't say that until Gen.1:3. Also, this could be why Satan is referred to as king of Tyrus in one verse and then he is demoted to prince of Tyrus (Ez.28:2 & 12).

He rebelled in that first age and took 1/3 of God's children with him:

Rev.12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven
and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born

Instead of God killing His children he instead destroyed the age. In this present 2nd age, all of us must be born of woman and make our minds up as to who we follow. This age is a spiritual war and the 3rd age is about spiritual judgment. That is why He was so angry at the fallen angels for by-passing being born - for that reason and the things they taught men God sent the flood of Noah. Satan and his angels, from the beginning, tried to corrupt the line that would produce Christ but Noah was "perfect in his generation" and had not been contaminated from his ancestry to Adam.

So...When we read Gen.1:1, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, we see that He didn't say when that begining was but science tells us it was billions of years old. Also note that there the word is "heaven" while in chapter two it has become "heavens" (2nd. heaven)

Gen.1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

Was can also be translated as "became" and most modern Bibles now footnote Gen.1:2 as - And the earth became without form......

1:2 (continued) And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

That is when the first day of this age began.

Peter teaches us about the first age in 2 Peter 3:

5.For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water.
6.Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water perished:
7.But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store......

Our world and heaven did not perish in Noah's flood.
Continued

Where did you get the idea about the animals? You must of missed my bit about time dilation and creation.

You know the bit about the King of Tyre is a prophecy not history. If it had been written as history which it wasnt, Eden was not created yet for your hypothetical pre creation. On top of that Eden was most likely created after the Sixth day.

Your quoting the King of Babylon again. The bit about the 1/3 of the angels is prophecy too in Revelations. The Dragon is trying to stop what appears to be the Birth of the Messiah in the prophecy.

Where did you get this ages idea?

Again on creation G-d does not experience time like we do. Time is relative.

Considering G-d is creating the Earth ex nihilo, it would make sense for it to become Unmanifest Potential or Chaos.

No our world did not perish in Noah's Flood. That I can agree with.

I'm guessing this belief forms some kind of focal point for your life. In other words you would refuse to look at this information objectively if it contradicts your view on reality.

Most of the ideas have no biblical basis or stem from misinterpretations and bad translations.

I highly advise that you look objectively at what your thinking. Maybe learn some Hebrew at least enough to look at the first two chapters of Genesis. Also study the history of the Church and the New Testament.
Until you do so you wont understand my point of view and why I would never agree with what your trying implicate.

[edit on 25/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

queenannie38

posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Where did you get the idea about the animals? You must of missed my bit about time dilation and creation.

Obviously you consider yourself the absolute authority. Others have perspectives differing from yours but just as valid.

Maybe learn some Hebrew at least enough to look at the first two chapters of Genesis.

Your own understanding of Hebrew is not at all as complete as you seem to think it is; Whirlwind's statements are obviously the result of a much wider scope of research as well as a more open mind.

whirlwind

posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS

You know the bit about the King of Tyre is a prophecy not history. If it had been written as history which it wasnt, Eden was not created yet for your hypothetical pre creation. On top of that Eden was most likely created after the Sixth day.

Mike, I believe it is both history and prophecy. God teaches the future through what has happened. 1Cori.10:11 - Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Your quoting the King of Babylon again. The bit about the 1/3 of the angels is prophecy too in Revelations. The Dragon is trying to stop what appears to be the Birth of the Messiah in the prophecy.

He can't stop what has already taken place. 1/3 followed him in the first age and in this age he tried to stop the birth of the Messiah. He first attempted that in the garden.

Where did you get this ages idea?

Some of the scriptures I have given. Here are a few of the others.

Jeremiah 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me, they are sottish children and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23.I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Earth and heaven became without form and void. God created it to be inhabited but it became void (Isa 45:18)

24.I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25.I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
This is NOT Noah's flood as here there was NO MAN and NO BIRDS.

26.I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger.
27.For thus hath the Lord said, "the whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end".

He shook the earth and flooded it. When Satan next makes his appearance, Gen. 3:1, in the garden it is after the creation of Adam and Eve and long after his rebellion.

What I write next isn't scripture but the "Book of Jasher" is quoted twice in the Old Testament (Joshua 10:13 & 2Samuel 1:18). Some credence therefore should probably be given this. Jasher, speaking of the creation (Jasher was the son of Caleb, a contemporary of Moses) says in 1:4-5

And the abyss fled before the face of the light, and divided between
the light and the darkness. So that the face of nature was
formed a second time.

Another clue to this first age is given in Gen. 1:28 when God told them to "replenish" the earth, not plenish it. Still another is found in 11Corin.12:2:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven.

If this tells us of the third heaven then we must be in the second age. If there is a second age there had to be a first age. Heaven is singular here as it is a new beginning.

The "foundation" of this world is spoken of by Jesus in Matt.13:35:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."

Foundation is katabole - overthrow, casting down, disruption, ruin. The earth became tohu and bohu (ie. waste and desolate) and darkness was on the face of the deep before the heavens and earth which are now.(2Pet.3:7)

This isn't something people must believe for their salvation but it does bring more understanding of scripture, at least it does for me.

.....Whirlwind

jakyll

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 08:35 AM
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In answer to those trying to work out who the king is in the book of Isaiah.I've been doing some research and iv found that in his lifetime Uzziah reigned fifty-two years (810-759 B.C.), and Isaiah must have begun his career a few years before Uzziah's death, probably 762 B.C.. He lived till the fourteenth year of Hezekiah, and in all likelihood outlived that monarch (who died 698 B.C.), and may have been contemporary for some years with Manasseh. Thus Isaiah may have prophesied for the long period of at least sixty-four years. His first call to the prophetical office is not recorded. A second call came to him "in the year that King Uzziah died" (Isa 6:1).

And comparing that to the babylonian king list,you've got a helluvalotta kings! lol.in Uzziah's reign alone there were 10 kings of babylon!

5 kings 811-c.800 BCE
Ninurta-apla-X c.800-c.790 BCE
Marduk-bel-zeri c.790-c.780 BCE
Marduk-apla-usur c.780-769 BCE
Eriba-Marduk 769-761 BCE
Nabu-šuma-iškun 761-748 BCE

It is recorded that Isaiah may have lived into the reign of Manasseh,which takes us to 687-688 bc.so we have even more kings.

Nabonassar (Nabu-nasir) 748-734 BCE
Nabu-nadin-zeri 734-732 BCE
Nabu-šuma-ukin II 732 BCE
Nabu-mukin-zeri, 732-729 BCE
Tiglath-Pileser III 729-727 BCE
Shalmaneser V 727-722 BCE
Marduk-apal-iddina II (the Biblical Merodach-Baladan), 722-710 BCE
Šarrukin (Sargon) II of Assyria, 710-705 BCE
Sin-ahhe-eriba (Sennacherib) of Assyria, 705-703 BCE
Marduk-zakir-šumi II, 703 BCE
Marduk-apal-iddina II, 703 BCE (restored)
Bel-ibni, 703-700 BCE
Aššur-nadin-šumi (son of Sennacherib of Assyria), 700-694 BCE
Nergal-ušezib, 694-693 BCE
Mušezib-Marduk, 693-689 BCE
Sin-ahhe-eriba (Sennacherib) of Assyria, 689-681 BCE

In Isaiah ch 14:25 it says,""That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.""
As Assyria was at war with Judah in the reign of Hezekiah 715 BCE-687 BCE.this narrows it right down to Sin-ahhe-eriba (Sennacherib).he went to war with babylon and Judah and it is also backed up in Kings 2 and Chronicles 2-1:23...(small sample.)

""1 After these things, and the establishment thereof, Sennacherib king of Assyria came, and entered into Judah, and encamped against the fenced cities, and thought to win them for himself.

2 And when Hezekiah saw that Sennacherib was come, and that he was purposed to fight against Jerusalem,""

of course,i could be wrong,lol.

Sun Matrix

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by jakyll

The Babylonian king in question is Nimrod. Isaiah 14 is about the coming Antichrist. The Antichrist is the star.........Tammuz is the star........Tammuz is the supposed reincarnation of Nimrod.

jakyll

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by Sun Matrix

Where do you get Nimrod from??

Isaiah 14,to me,shows that god is punishing ppl/kings/kingdoms of the present.where does it mention that the antichrist will come??

isn't Tammuz the sumerian god of vegetation??

Sun Matrix

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Sun Matrix

Where do you get Nimrod from??

Isaiah 14,to me,shows that god is punishing ppl/kings/kingdoms of the present.where does it mention that the antichrist will come??

isn't Tammuz the sumerian god of vegetation??

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."

To understand Isaiah 14 you need to understand Jeremiah 10. Do you know what this verse is referring to?

jakyll

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by Sun Matrix

I would assume the making and worshiping of false idols.

Isaiah 14:28 ""In the year that king Ahaz died this was his burden.""
Does that not mean then that these things have already been done?? when god says,""How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"" is he not talking to someone he is about to punish or has already punished??

Oh,and the only reference of Tammuz in the bible,that i know of,is,Ezekiel 8:14 ""Then He brought me to the entrance of the gate of the LORD'S house which [was] toward the north; and behold, women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz.""

I know there are references in the bible to the Antichrist.but i just dont see it in Isaiah,or a connection with Nimrod and Tammuz

[edit on 27-8-2007 by jakyll]

Sun Matrix

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll

I would assume the making and worshiping of false idols.

Read the verse in Jeremiah 10 again.....and tell me what you see.

Isaiah 14:28 ""In the year that king Ahaz died this was his burden.""
Does that not mean then that these things have already been done??

Ec 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

when god says,""How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"" is he not talking to someone he is about to punish or has already punished??

Both.

I know there are references in the bible to the Antichrist.but i just dont see it in Isaiah,or a connection with Nimrod and Tammuz

Read the verses in Jeremiah 10. Just use common sence....what do you see?

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs F49 of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.Text

[edit on 27-8-2007 by Sun Matrix]

jakyll

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Sun Matrix

Ok,i think i know where your going.but that doesn't explain how you get antichrist,nimrod and tammuz from Isaiah 14.

jakyll

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Sun Matrix

Or maybe it does and i'm just not getting it

Sun Matrix

posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Sun Matrix

Ok,i think i know where your going.but that doesn't explain how you get antichrist,nimrod and tammuz from Isaiah 14.

Understand Jeremiah 10 and apply it to Isaiah 14 and it becomes very clear.

jakyll

posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Sun Matrix

Very true....though i should point out i don't believe in god or the devil.if you look at earlier christianity and judaism there was no "evil being" that could get the better of god on a constant and regular basis! believers in christianity have made a humble arch-angel into a god with enough power to rival the almighty!!

whirlwind

posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by jakyll

Very true....though i should point out i don't believe in god or the devil.if you look at earlier christianity and judaism there was no "evil being" that could get the better of god on a constant and regular basis! believers in christianity have made a humble arch-angel into a god with enough power to rival the almighty!!

There is a God and there is Satan. Satan cannot "get the better of God" in any way. God allows him to operate during this age as we are in a spiritual war. While this war rages he is prince of this world.

At the end of this age we must make a choice on who we follow. Even if you don't believe in God or Satan one day, probably soon, someone will stand in front of us, saying he is Christ, as it is written he will. Then who will you choose? Will you know who the fake is?

...Whirlwind

jakyll

posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by whirlwind

God allows him?? why the hell does god allow him?? why are we suffering and why is there are war?? correct me if i'm wrong but satan(as you believe) is an archangel,yes? and god is "all powerful"?? are you telling me that god cannot kill or imprison an angel!?! it makes no sence!! if god "allows" all this misery,suffering,torture,deprivation and slaughter then maybe he's not the god you think he is! or maybe he is not as powerful as you believe!

I don't want to knock anyones faith,but i cannot believe or worship in a god that would allow such atrocities to happen.(to believers and non-believers.)especially as all you get is,"in the next life it will be better.!" screw the next life,ppl are suffering now! and you believe its ok for your god to allow that!

[edit on 29-8-2007 by jakyll]

[edit on 29-8-2007 by jakyll]