Originally posted by mecheng
It's difficult to impeach Bush when Pelosi, upon becoming speaker of the house, immediately takes impeachment

I believe that it could also be due to her been afraid of having the masterminded and biggest representative of corporate greed and war profiteer as the acting president of this nation.

Can you imagine if he get the presidential seat at any time right now!!!!!!!!!

Specially when his agenda in the middle east has not been fulfilled!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by albie
People don't listen to you because your evidence is sadly lacking. It's at a level that wouldn't convince anyone, no matter how smart they are.


I then have to wonder why YOU were convinced so easily.

When you take into account that most conspiracy theorists started out as anti-government you get the answer.

But then it would be impossible to make YOU see that.

Belief is bias.[edit on 20-7-2007 by albie]

Albie, please don't include me in your silly rant. I listen to Grover because he knows what's going on and speaks the truth. And I am a certified genius (not bragging, but you were the one who brought the question of intelligence into the thread).
And where do you get the idea that most CTer's started out as anti-American? Do you have a resource to back this up or is this just your own uninformed speculative opinion based on nothing? Most CTer's love their country and then they find out that their GOVT is against them. It's called Waking Up.
Your rant adds nothing to the conversation, provides nothing educational, no new information and is off-topic and not even right. You insulted another member, ad hominen, which is against the ATS rules.

I have to agree. It is not bush minor's grabs for power that scare me so much as the inaction of congress. When the republicans controlled it they did this country no service by allowing (enabling) bush minor to get away with as much as he did; and the traitors on the Democratic side aka the Democratic Leadership Council, have so effectively nutered their own party that as it stands that I doubt seriously that they could evoke the loyal opposition stance if they tried. The DLC is one of the reasons that if I do end up voting for Hillary, it will be under duress.

With bush minor appointing people, lawyers, judges and the like based not on loyality to the constituition, but rather loyality to himself (see Harriet Miers, Alberto Gonzales etc) it cannot help but to look like at the very least that he is making a grab for permanant power. After all this man is on record as saying that "America would be easier to rule as a dictatorship, just so long as he is the dictator."

Dictatorships however never last. What scares me is an assissination and the accension of Cheney. That is what I fear is in the works.

The important rub about all this and the one that must be paid most attention to is that some of the harshest criticism and opposition to bush minor is coming from the few remaining true conservatives in his party; not his neo-con lap dogs from hell.

BTW listen to Marg and forest lady; they are wise women, and if anything women will be our salvation.

Originally posted by albie
People don't listen to you because your evidence is sadly lacking. It's at a level that wouldn't convince anyone, no matter how smart they are.

I then have to wonder why YOU were convinced so easily.

Bravo! When you look at the "evidence" presented here, what do you have? A statement from Paul Craig Roberts.

Who?

Anytime I read where someone says that the Republicans are praying for another 9/11, I have to question their sanity.

And when I see people grabbing that straw as proof and validation that "by golly, that's what I've been saying all along but nobody believes me!" then I see people that are desperate for something to happen, if only to prove their dire predictions were correct. Predictions that they have been making for 7 years now, which haven't come true.

Hell, if we believed them, we'd all be living in concentration camps by now. Wasn't that one of the predictions? They're getting desperate, because Bush has only about a year to go before their predictions run out of time.

Some people live under an umbrella of fear. Fear of this and fear of that. And they blame the gov't for inciting that fear, when it actually comes from within their own self. You can tell who they are when you see statements like "I feel" or "it seems" or "I told you so, now it's happening". Vague, uneasy feelings, that can't be quantified or questioned.

And before some of you start, this isn't a Republican/Democrat thing. I mean seriously, the Republicans may be bad, but Reid and Pelosi are no better.

I think martial law would be bad for the economy. If these guys in power are pro-big business, than why would they do that. It would probably seriously hurt who they protect. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Thanks Grover you know that we regard you as one of the very grounded members here.

This is a quote from the link

"It's so obvious to people like us who have long been associated in the corridors of power," he said. "There's no belief in the people or anything like that. They have agendas. The people are in the way. The Constitution is in the way. ... Americans need to comprehend and look at how ruthless Cheney is. ... A person like that would do anything."

Sounds familiar, right.

Over and over we have been trying to show what is going on with the present administration and we all know the dangers of having Cheney taken power as president.

We have been beating up the agendas, the plans, the goals that this people and their corporate backing wants.

We have seen the deterioration of our constitution and even disintegration of it, if we ever get another attack, the damage has been done already with the signing by Bush of bills, laws and notes to his bills.

Pray that they will be stop before our nation endure another sacrifice for the benefit of the ones in power.

They are ruthless, heartless and we the people are nothing than colateral damage and casualties. . . only numbers to them because we do not walk on the same path they do.


[edit on 20-7-2007 by marg6043]

Marg: Excellent post and thanks for the quote.
Grover: Thank you for the nice compliment.
JSOBecky: I agree with you in that Pelosi is no better than any of the others Rep or Dem. But I don't think there's anyone who can outdo the evilness of Cheney, of either party.

Originally posted by dgtempe

The time is NOW to beware, my friends- I beg you to finally WAKE UP. Forget the fact that you're a Republican and you have deep allegeance to that party.

Never mind my gut feelings, we're fast approaching The end as we know it- Liberty.

Please, please wake up.

OK DG, I've been one of those who doesn't believe there is a risk of Bush and Cheney enforcing a military police state. But I have "awakened" and now believe it's not only possible, but inevitable. Now what? What do I do? Is just knowing and adimitting it, and agreeing with you and Grover and the others enough? Is that all you want?

Please, I respectfuly ask that you tell me what to do aside from "believing".

Thanks

I have looked at Ron Paul and would be happier if he was running as an independant.

An independent ticket of Bill Richardson and Ron Paul would be a formidable one, and one to be taken seriously. Probably would not win but a hell of a lot more intelligent than Ross Perot. I would have Richardson in the presidental position, his experinice is undeniable and far greater than anyone else running on either party.

[edit on 20-7-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by piacenza
I think this beautiful phrase sums it up:

First they came for the Socialists, and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists,
and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak up for me.

Martin Niemöller

It certainly does. It's a very moving poem. I also know that since becoming a member of ATS we all would be moved much higher in that list of dissidents in today's world.

I remember my Mark Twain:

In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it cost nothing to be a patriot

This I know as most anyone on here also knows, is the truth. You can yell revolution in the streets but the masses will not react. The masses are content. You can kick and scream but it will do no good. If people don't want to be woken up they won't be. That's the end all be all of it. I've been trying for years and I now know this to be tried and true.

I consider myself an idealist realist. (Is there such a thing?) Yes I think there is. I can see great things in people but I know things will get worse before they will ever get better. Realistically, you cannot wake people up they have to come to it on their own. Most never will hence the Mark Twain quote. I would say don't bother waking those people up just know for yourself the truth.

When the time comes those people will not stand by your side. Don't seek help from the apathetic they are complicit and every bit of a problem as the current administration is.


Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

-Mark Twain

Originally posted by jsobeckyAnytime I read where someone says that the Republicans are praying for another 9/11, I have to question their sanity.

I think using the word "praying" for another 9/11 is a stretch... but the republicans are coming to the realization, finally like the rest of America, that Bush has put us in a disasterous situation, based on a series of lies, and the only way to gain back support is for another attack like 9/11 to occur. To me, that is a frightening concept... rather than doing the right thing, just keep pushing this mess along until some day another 9/11 happens. Then they can say "Ha! I told you so".

Is it just me or is there something wrong with that logic?

[edit on 20-7-2007 by mecheng]

We all know it should not be a Dem. or Rep. but being able to pull somethig off without them knowing isn't an easy thing to do.

I see it one of two ways.
Major event and he issues Executive Order and continues on with Marshall Law or The already bought and paid for Hillary.

IMO everything is already fixed and time dated so to say.

People have to use the surprise maneuvers military do and take them by surprise.

Let's face it do you think they are going to let anything interfere with there agenda for 2008 elections lead to 2012........

Originally posted by forestlady

And I am a certified genius (not bragging, but you were the one who brought the question of intelligence into the thread).

Sorry for being off topic -

Not to be insulting or anything, but thats a pretty bold statement. I'm sure this has been asked before, but can you provide proof that your a certified genius?

Thanks

another "911" incident is almost a guaranteed and before the next US election.

But the nature of it will be what determines the outcome I beleive. Many have theorised that nuclear weapons may be used.....seriously, the security cinstraints around anything to do with nuclear weapons is very strict, and the notion that smuggling nukes from russia or china I beleive is a farce, for, correct me if Im wrong, but dont they have radiation detectors on US borders now?

With so much security and talk of security and lies about threats to the US, I honestly beleive that if another "attack" were to take place within the US, with the intention of bringing in a police state/martial law, would only justify and prove that the Bush/Cheney regime had something to do with it. Whether it was to allow it to get stolen in the first place, or allowing it to cross the US borders from Mexico, nothing short of a public revolution would be acceptable to throw them out of office. Its as clear as water, what they want and aim to bring about.

I dont know how many people here remember the Romanian dictator Chiachesky in 1988 orn 89 who rigged his election....the people knew it and stormed the presidential palace, where he ran to the roodtop to try and flee and the public got to him, and executed him.

That is whats in stall for Bush and Cheney if they try and pull this off. It cannot happen or be allowed to happen.

And If they succeed? I dont beleive that its Bush or Cheney you will have to worry about, but the next in line to the thrown, whoever that may be that is being "groomed" for the position as all this is going on, for if they want to bring in a martial law state, they'll need a young leader who follows their theology and who cant stand the test of time over the long term to enable this to take effect.

Im not in the US and do not know who else in the republican party could hold this position but it wont be Cheney for his age and health problems and it wont be Bush for his public profile will be his downfall I beleive.

So if there is anybody out there in ATS land that follows the Republicans, please help me out.

It is not those who lay the foundation that you have to fear as evil as they may be, but he who builds the house upon which those foundations were layed!

Originally posted by albie
People don't listen to you because your evidence is sadly lacking. It's at a level that wouldn't convince anyone, no matter how smart they are.

There is plenty of evidence... Take a look on the web because you won't find it from the government mouth-piece main-stream-media! Unfortunately, THAT is why we have a hard time convincing people... not because of lack of evidence, but lack of interest. People don't believe because a) they don't want to believe and b) the source of their "news" doesn't report any of it... and most people feel the web is not "reliable". But yet they won't look for themselves to find that quotes about "another 9/11" are being made by real people. MSM just won't report it or ask the difficult questions.

This is quite scary, only for the fact that I have always been aginst bush from the get go, I agree though that something is going to happen before Bush is out of office, he wont go without doing some sort of damage that is almost certon, I for one though HATE bush with every fiber of my body, if another 911 type attack goes down in this country maybe then people will see that this government is crap ( NOTE: Thats a BIG maybe, I'm not holding my breath though ). But then again maybe not, the govt IMO really does allow this type of thing to happen, they allow "cells" to enter this country and stage a set up attack, and then the govt will clam that ohh such and such was breached because we didnt have tight enough sucurity and they slipped though. I swear if I hear something like that I will throw up with anger, and I'm almost willing to bet the people of this country will play in the governments hand.

There is a saying I heard from my dad once and that is "people as a whole are stupid but people singled out are smart"

In short with that said this country is stupid and blind to what goes on around us, and are willing to beleave media and news sources which are also liers. but this is nothing new to the readers of ATS.
I for one will try to spred this infomation to all of my friends, and family, again I do think something will happen before bush gets pushed out of office.. lets just hope that the Vice Prisident does not get in!!!

Some Americans are very hard headed.
Let's take my aunt's husband for instance.
He is blind of the things around him, and only follows
what is told on CNN.
At one point he used to think Bush was the savior of the United
Stated. I went to US to visit again and all of the sudden he thinks
Bush is the next Hitler.
This man was a war veteran, and he knows no better then to follow
the mainstream news. Many war veterans are like that and that is how
they raise their children because it used to be the American thing
to do. However most people are just blind sheep being led by a dark
path. If the people who realize what is about to happen do not stand
up for the blind then who will?