Originally posted by TheSonOfMan

I am not a member of any church or follow any orgainzed religon..I am HUMAN and thats good enough for me...LEARN FROM MISTAKES!

Thanks that is good enough information for me.

Originally posted by marg6043


Jokes are have a place and time, this one is not one of them.

Who do you think is joking? Me?

Originally posted by TheSonOfMan

your exacty right..the word "rapture" is not mentioned in the bible...but on the contrary..the GATHERING..or for another word "RAPTURE" of the BELIEVERS is mentioned in the bible..and has already been mentioned in previous post by TheStev..so in essence your correct the word rapture is not mentioned..but the gathering/harvest/collection OF THE BELIEVERS is surely mentioned more then once in the scriptures.


Do you get what im saying?

I know exactly what you are saying. And any deviation of the word rapture or its intent of what it means will not happen tomorrow.

The fact is the bible is not the word of god. Its a copy of a copy of a copy from four different languages over centuries and translated into its present form.

And the believers are asked to have faith because no one can provide any evidence of the authenticity of the bible.

[edit on 16-5-2007 by etshrtslr]

Well the rapture question is very simple...the muddy water is still in your reply

John 14 is the Rapture he is now talking to them as the church. Its His last night and the chance of Israel taking the correct decision will not happen
The mystery of the church is being reveled for the first time
They are going to heaven

You can google rapture and Jewish marriage or go back and read my jewish marriage rapture post.
its very clear.
Do you know anything about a Hebrew wedding?
do any of you?>
ovbiously not
Remember its a Wedding, Not the Wedding feast
Yeshua marries the Church, not Israel.


Do any of you know anything about covenant theology?
If so can you name the covenants....Gods eternal promises?
better yet just tell me how many there are?

Please learn it if you don't know the anwers to these basic questions.

and do any of you make a distinction between Israel and the Chruch?
No
Thats the problem right there in a nutshell


I will let you learn the way I did.
I studied.
The Hebrew wedding is proof enough let alone the order of the seven Holy festivales which each one is a foreshadowing of an event of Christ
the feast of trumpets is the rapture.
could happen any feast of trumpets

The rest of the world gets the tribulations
again the word chruch is not in the bible after revelations chapter three
thats the rapture.
the rest is for Israel...its the tribulation
there are two time clocks.
one for Israel on hold
one for the chruch now running
when the rapture happens the Israel stop watch starts again and theres only seven years left

Rightly dividing the Word of God
And thats the Word



[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

here it is again...remember its a Jewish wedding.
The bride is the Church, not Israel.
The Church goes to heaven, Israel gets the land, not the Church.
two different progams, two different stop watches.
one is a mystery like the rapture
the other is foretold for centuries...its Israel and the land
the church and heaven is a new theology that only started the last night
John 14

with that I give you a jewish wedding

Summary of reasons why Christians expect to see the rapture happen on the
Feast of Trumpets / Rosh Hashanna
1. All the Spring Feasts were fulfilled at Christ's first coming, and on the exact day of the feast. All the Fall Feasts picture the second advent, and the Feast of Trumpets is the first of the fall feasts, picturing the rapture.
2. The Feast of Trumpets is when the "last trump" of the rapture of 1 Cor 15 is blown.
3. The Feast of Trumpets is known as the Wedding of the Messiah, and the Church is the Bride of Christ, and the rapture is when the Church is caught up to heaven to be wed with Christ.
4. The Feast of Trumpets happens on the "new moon", which is 29.5 days after the last one, meaning it might occur on the 29th or 30th day.
5. "Of that day or hour no man knows, but my Father only" is an expression used by Yeshua when discussing the Second Coming,
not the Rapture. Again, the wedding pictures the rapture., Second Coming is the Wedding Feast
6. The "Open Door" of the rapture in Matt 25, and Rev 3, & Rev 4:1 is a symbol of the Feast of Trumpets. [Ezek 46:1] "Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
7. We are told that the new moon and the Feasts of the Lord are a shadow of things to come in Col 2:16,17. Since the Feast of Trumpets is the only Feast of the Lord that falls on a new moon, we should take particular note.
8. There are seven days of awe in between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. These picture the seven years of tribulation. Atonement pictures Satan being defeated and cast away at the end of tribulaion. If you add the two day Trumpets feast, and the day of atonement, the 7 days of awe are "ten days of tribulation" which might be referred to in Rev. 2:10.
9. In the Jewish Wedding, a marriage takes place over a period of time known as the "bridal week". During the bridal week, the groom and bride have sex in the bridal chamber. At the end of the week, there is a marriage supper. Compare Judges 14, Rev. 19, and Gen. Genesis 29:22-28 This bridal week will be the tribulation week on earth, while the bride of Christ is in heaven.
10. In the Jewish Wedding, the groom comes for his bride "like a thief in the night" to take (size / rapture) her away and into the bridal chamber for the bridal week at his father's house.
11. The Feast of Trumpets is also known as the coronation of the Messiah, when he will start reigning as king, thus the beginning of the "Day of the Lord", which includes the tribulation.
12. It is also time for the bema judgment, or the judgement of the works of the righteous, and judgement must begin at the house of the Lord.
[2Cor 11:2] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Rapture parallels with the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShana)



[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

TheSonOfMan

No, no, you, sometimes people get too much involve in their own personal views that they forget to respect others.

Originally posted by junglelord

Do any of you know anything about covenant theology?
If so can you name the covenants....Gods eternal promises?
better yet just tell me how many there are?

[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

I ask again. How do you know any of that is true given the fact there is not one original surviving text or book of the bible?

All of it is just your opinion no facts or original supporting text to back up your claims or faith.

What are you going to say tomorrow or the day after when the rapture does not happen? Will you still post? Or will you say as so many others that have spewed your drivel over the centuries that it will come another day?

Originally posted by junglelord
I would like to know if you have the names of the original manuscripts...because right now we are questioning the Bible.
So why bother if I believe it and you don't?
Cheers

[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

There are no original manuscripts of the bible!

If you think there are please provide evidence of such.

There are only copies of copies of copies made over centuries. If you claim you know the names of the original manuscripts then so be it but I will assure you that you do not know the contents of the original manuscripts given the fact they do not exist.

For anyone to say they know what the original books of the bible state is folly.

You can read and translate all the Hebrew you want but until you can do it from the original source its all nothing more than speculation.

Originally posted by grover
well personally I have gotten ready for the rapture by stopping the wearing of clothing.

YES! Me, too! I started topless and worked 'down' so to speak...but it's not so bad once you get used to putting a towel down on hard seating surfaces.

Come on you guys - no way it's happening tomorrow.

I totally believe in the Bible, but the word rapture is not in there. Like someone else said, there is no 'get out of tribulation' free card.Lol

Here is my advise to believers and non-believers.

IF.... you happen to be outside one day, and something a bit on the creepy side, which more than likely will be paranormal in nature, begins to unfold - don't run from it. Don't be scared - just stand there and go with the flow. Your chances for "life" will increase dramatically!

When it does happen, 50% of the population will either disappear or the flesh could possibly just fall off the frame (fall down dead).

If it would happen tomorrow we are talking over three billion people gone.
Close to two billion will be children. Common sense dictates such a scenerio. Then the mentally challenged, who we call handicapped.

That leaves "slim pickings" for those that remain.

Luke 17:33
Luke 17:34-35

I thimk there is no mention of a rapture in the bible, it does not exist, it's an invention.

You keep avoiding my question junglelord and repeating the same 'answers'.

Your John 14 verse has Jesus saying: 'I will come back and take you to be with me.'

So if Jesus is 'coming back' to enact this rapture, how is it different from the Second Coming?

Simple question really, and it's the only question I'm asking, so if you reply to this post and don't make any reference to this question I'm simply going to assume that you have no reasonable answer.

Oh and just to address a few of your questions - my understanding is that, as of Jesus, there is only one covenant between God and his people.

The question of Israel is a question of interpretation. Old Testament references obviously refer to the ancient nation of Israel, although they may also be seen to refer to (or seen as prophecies about) the new 'Israel' - by which I mean God's people, not the nation created 50 years ago. God's people = the church.

So of course there are differences depending on the context of the use of the term 'Israel'. But essentially biblical references to Israel are believed to refer to 'God's people'.

I understand that Christ was married to the church, and I understand that you're using Hebrew wedding traditions as an argument for when the rapture is to occur, but I still see no biblical references for a rapture separate from the return of Christ.

But hey, if you've got a verse other than John 14 I'm happy to read it and take it into consideration.

[edit on 16-5-2007 by TheStev]

I guess you did not read my post on the Jewish wedding, Rosh Hashanna, and the rest of it. Its two seperate things, two seperate programs, two seperate time clocks, everything about them is different EXCEPT Yeshua comes back in both
thats all you have pointed out.
I already know that.

everything else is different
you do not know that.

how much clearer could I be?

It fits perfectly with the Holy Festivales.
Yeshua only does major things on Holy Festivale as it foreshadows what he will do
Feast of Trumpets = Trumpet of Rapture
I mean its so ovbious just like his death on Passover...
can you not see that?
what do you know of the Fall Festivales?

you say its one event because he comes back in both....thats your belief
but you have not clearified all the things that do not fit
there are so many differences its apples and oranges...actually its Israel and the Chruch
again I ask you where is Israel in your theology?>
and please answer some of my questions for once instead of just reasking the same thing
thats a dog chasing its tail
I have ground to cover.

God Bless

[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

I don't say it's one event. Personally I don't believe it's any event. But I do believe there is no biblical reference for a separate rapture.

If Jesus came down once to die. Came back again for the rapture, and then again in the final days, wouldn't that make the final days the third coming? Not the second? If this is the case why does everyone talk only about the second coming and not the third?

well like I asked answer some of my questions, as they will answer your own.

to keep it simple
Yeshua does not come to earth for the rapture
we meet him in the sky

He does come back to earth for the second coming hence the two different names
duh!

[edit on 16-5-2007 by junglelord]

Boom - you've done it again.

everything about them is different EXCEPT Yeshua comes back in both

Source= your post

Yeshua does not come to earth for the rapture
we meet him in the sky

Source=your post

I will come back and take you to be with me.

Source=John 14

Jesus himself says he comes back. You yourself say he comes back. Now you're saying he doesn't. Which is it?

By the way, whether it's the surface of the planet, or the atmosphere above - if Jesus has come out of heaven, then he's come back to Earth. You'd do as well to say 'he comes back, but he floats a few feet above the surface of the Earth, so technically he doesn't come back'.

Also, a few others have raise this point and I think it needs an answer. If all the faithful get taken up to heaven, then why come back after that at all? What interest does God or Jesus have in the Earth if the only people left there are unbelievers?

[edit on 16-5-2007 by TheStev]

read it your self its plastered in this thread by lots of people both pro and con...

I just unmuddied the water.

you can all believe what you want I have stated my beliefs.

I can say as a pretrib person since 1977 that I predicted in 1978 the fall of the berlin wall, the fall of russia, the european common market, the eurodollar. I have a 100% record so far based on my view of rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

and lets not forget its all about the Jews and the middle east...its not all about the church
ever read the old testament????


where is the hottest spot?
the middle east
I rest my case
Shalom

You rest your case on that? Boy I'm glad you're not my lawyer.

Congratulations on your hit rate. I don't really see the relevance to this discussion though.

All about Jews huh? So you're saying that every reference to Israel in the Old Testament refers to the modern nation of Israel? The bible never uses the term 'Israel' to refer to God's people - ie the church?

I have read the old testament actually, not every single word granted, but more of it than I care to admit. I was raised in a Christian family and my dad was a minister for my formative years, so I can assure you I've read quite a bit of the Old Testament.

Okay, let me see if I can lay this out simply for you.

Jesus came to us once in the NT
In John 14 he says he will 'come back' to bring the believers to heaven.

So that's two 'comings' so far. You're claiming a 'third coming' which is not mentioned by anyone anywhere biblically. Unless you can prove me otherwise.

See this is what I don't get: you tell me you're a biblical eschatologist. You tell me you can read and write Hebrew and read Greek. You claim this intimate knowledge of the bible, and yet in all your replies you rely on your own words (and in early posts on the words written by authors believing in the rapture).

Surely the word of God speaks for itself. Surely, if there is biblical evidence of the rapture, then someone with as much knowledge of the text as you would be able to provide it quite easily.

So far, all we've got is John 14. Which says Jesus will come back. Your definition of the rapture (I think - it's hard to keep up) doesn't involve the return of Jesus.

The thing is, your beliefs seem strong, and strongly based on scripture. Yet you've only got one verse to back it up. So do your beliefs come from faith in the scripture, or do they come from faith in your own self? If they come from faith in the scripture, then you must have more than just the one verse, which by its very wording denies the type of event you are describing, to support this faith. No?

Please, stop trying to guess when the world will end, unless you want to look foolish like the Millerites. No one knows when the world will end.

[edit on 16-5-2007 by thehumbleone]