Possible RAPTURE date May 17, 2007

Boy thats the dumbest mistake I have made in awhile.
Thats the first scripture taken out of context concerning the rapture....not sure where my brain was????

Mathew was a miquote by me and thanks for pointing that out.
That is a Second Coming verse as you well pointed out.
the hope of Israel is the land, the hope of the church is heaven.

The First time the rapture is mentioned is John 14:1-3

John 14
Jesus Comforts His Disciples
1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.
2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

[edit on 15-5-2007 by junglelord]

I don't mean to be the proverbial thorn in your side but...

I will come back and take you to be with me

Again tied to the return of Christ. You'll have to keep searching for verses to support your argument I'm afraid.

-Edited for formatting-

[edit on 15-5-2007 by TheStev]

no thats the crux of the matter.
Israel gets the land...they do not go to heaven
The church goes to heaven and this is the first time he is talking to them as a seperate entity from Israel. He is leaving and its time for new things to be taught.

The church is a mystery not reveled in the old testament so when they asked questions and he answered them it was in reference to Israel.
Here he is telling them a new doctrine unheard of....heaven is not coming to earth (the millenial kingdom) but rather they are going to heaven.
this goes back to a proper understanding of covenent theology.
Israel gets earth...not heaven
the church gets heaven not earth

the two meet in the millenial kingdom where Christ returns with church as his bride to govern over Israel.

the church rapture is imminent...the second coming no one knows
two seperate events two sepeate groups, two seperate prophecy programs.
do not mix and match.
ps
your no thorn in my side....just my memory (I got post concussion syndrome)

[edit on 15-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by ben91069
If someone had the resources and wanted to ascend in a certain manner physical and spiritual, you could certainly get a weather balloon and a chair and take one last ride into the thin high altitude air. It would be a beautiful sight to behold as long as you had a nice heavy coat to stay warm.

The travelocity gnome dude doesn't seem to have too much fun at it!

God I am sick of these blowhards... please let the rapture come soon so the rest of us can have some peace and quiet.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
I think there is the potential for something to happen on this day, although the "rapture" is a dead certain no no.. what makes Israelis so special over everyone else?

Not 'isreali's' as in those that live in a land now named Israel because the UN said so...

Isreal
Is Real

they are not 'special over' anyone...they are here to serve the world by demonstrating that God Is Real.

Originally posted by TheStev
Junglelord:

Jesus was referring to the Second Coming, not the Rapture.

If we backtrack a bit from the 1 Thessalonians verse to 4:16 we get:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command

Source Bible Gateway

And if we track through your Matthew 24 verse we get:

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds

'At that time' (the time when 'they will gather his elect from the four winds') 'they will see the Son of Man coming on clouds of the sky'.

So tell me again how the alleged rapture is separate from the return of Christ?

thats what im talking about...thanks so much TheStev...your exacttly right..thanks for finding that scripture...that even proves the point even more.

God Bless You.

This all sounds like numerology to me, are Christians into numerology?

But you still haven't provided any biblical references for the rapture. The last one that you said was for the rapture says that Jesus will 'come back' and take everyone to be with him. So if the rapture is separate from the second coming, then that verse does not refer to the rapture.

thessaloians was already given as a followup by Paul
its two sepreate events...one is imminent one is not.
how can they therefore be the same event?
there are no signs that preceed the rapture...it could happen at anytime.
For the second coming we have a whole book of signs...revelations.
The church is not mentioned after chapter 3 of revelations...cause they are in heaven...the rest are on earth going through the trib.


[edit on 15-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by queenannie38

Isreal
Is Real

they are not 'special over' anyone...they are here to serve the world by demonstrating that God Is Real.

Haha yea exactly right ..hey QA did you get that "is real" comment from me?

im just wondering..because ive discovered that too..

But again - the Thess verse says that before that happens the Lord will come down from heaven. Are you saying that God the Father comes down from heaven, takes all the Christians back with him - then some time later Jesus returns?

Seems to me that The Lord coming down from heaven would be the second coming.

And Christians aren't really into numerology, but Jewish people are. Given that Christianity is the extension of Judaism (technically) there's bound to be a bit of trickle-down.

-Edit-

Wait wait - I've just noticed something else. In your most recent post you're saying the date/time of the rapture can't be predicted, but the second coming can. Your previous posts have taken the inverse position - which is it?

[edit on 15-5-2007 by TheStev]

Originally posted by grover
God I am sick of these blowhards... please let the rapture come soon so the rest of us can have some peace and quiet.

Grover I am with you, although I don't believe in a rapture coming it sure would be nice to put all the madness to rest.

Just for clarity, and for the record, I don't consider myself a Christian. I was raised a Christian and am very familiar with the bible, but I'm extremely distrusting of any organised religion (and that's putting it lightly). I don't really believe any of this stuff - but I do know what the bible says and what the majority of Christian denominations believe.

In terms of this argument, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Ah, religious discussions. The only discussions where that statement isn't just a figure of speech

Originally posted by TheStev
But again - the Thess verse says that before that happens the Lord will come down from heaven. Are you saying that God the Father comes down from heaven, takes all the Christians back with him - then some time later Jesus returns?

Seems to me that The Lord coming down from heaven would be the second coming.

And Christians aren't really into numerology, but Jewish people are. Given that Christianity is the extension of Judaism (technically) there's bound to be a bit of trickle-down.

-Edit-

Wait wait - I've just noticed something else. In your most recent post you're saying the date/time of the rapture can't be predicted, but the second coming can. Your previous posts have taken the inverse position - which is it?

[edit on 15-5-2007 by TheStev]

I said the rapture was imminent...I said many signs preceed the second coming...not that you can date it.
no signs needed for the rapture.
Jesus is the Lord God, the Son....not the Father...now your confusing Father and Son....oh boy.
I got my work cut out for me



[edit on 15-5-2007 by junglelord]

I was wondering if the author of this thread realizes that the rapture was something invented by a minister in the 1800's (it's been on MANY DOCUMENTARIES ABOUT THE END TIMES) and was never mentioned in the bible? And also how do they know that is when Jesus rose into heaven? As far as I knew noone knew when any of this took place for sure, I mean I understand that he was supposed to have been crucified around Easter, but that doesn't mean that was exactly when it happened.

Not only that but being as the 4 gospels all disagree on some points on what occured in Jesus' life, how does anyone know what is the truth???? Don't get me wrong I'm not a total religious skeptic, I think that Jesus was the son of God, ect. I just don't think that everything we heard about the endtimes is correct.

But that is just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by junglelord
Eschatology is the study of bible prophecy.

From another ESSENTIAL Book:

es·cha·tol·o·gy (sk-tl-j)
n.
1. The branch of theology that is concerned with the end of the world or of humankind.
2. A belief or a doctrine concerning the ultimate or final things, such as death, the destiny of humanity, the Second Coming, or the Last Judgment.

The spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus Christ - who NEVER said the world would end nor would humanity be destroyed...this age will end and then a new one will begin. He is in both.

Therefore, even the idea of eschatology is error, in and of itself. There is no 'final' thing when there is no end (world without end, amen).

It would fulfill my greatest wish if all those bloodthirsty, hating, right-wing, self righteous nutcases would just go away and leave the earth to the truly enlightened. Unfortunately, it won't happen. The kooks keep picking dates, which keep passing and they are still here....If you really believed in the rapture, you would sell all your stuff(like Jesus said to) and give it to the poor. Oh, right, you really don't believe it and you just can't part with your McMansion, your SUV, your plasma TV w/satellite to watch CBN and your little piece of land in the red states...can you?

You say you have your work cut out for you - but you haven't done any work!

Let me break this down into some simple points for you.

there are no signs that preceed the rapture...it could happen at anytime.

Your view of the rapture is your view.
Its very biblical and first mentioned in Mathew 24.
It occurs on the Feast of Trumpets

These quote are both from you. In one you state that the rapture occurs on the Feast of Trumpets, in the other you state there are no signs (not that 'signs are not needed', as your most recent post claims) it could happen at any time. These statements are contradictory. Which do you believe to be true?

Okay, yes, I understand that Jesus is the 'Lord God'. Here's a simple yes/no for you. When the English translated bible says 'The LORD' (note uppercase) it is referring to Yahweh, God the Father. Do you, or do you not agree with this statement?

Regardless of whether we're talking God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit - it's pretty clear we're talking about God. They're all one and the same anyway right? That's how the trinity thing works - correct?

Back on topic, you've provided two verses so far as proof of the rapture - not including the Matthew verse that you rescinded.

The two verses you have provided are 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and John 14:1-3.

Now in each of these verses, it says that before the faithful are taken away, the Lord comes down from heaven - or Jesus comes back to take the faithful away.

The fact that this is included on both verses, indicated that Jesus comes back before the faithful are taken away. And yet, your argument seems to be that there will be a rapture where the faithful are taken away, and then after that the second coming occurs.

Do you have any verses to prove this? Verses that refer to the faithful being taken away without Jesus or God coming down from heaven before that occurs?

So far the only verses you've provided for the faithful being taken away refer to something occurring after Jesus has returned. I'm looking for any biblical proof you have of a rapture-type event occurring before the return of Jesus.

-Edited for formatting-

[edit on 15-5-2007 by TheStev]

Originally posted by kleverone
Well now the debate is who would you rather take religious advice from?

Metallica or Megadeath?

Well, outside of 'Symphony of Destruction' I really don't get much God out of megadeath....

I'm going with Metallica!!!

I'm with you! ...and Hetfield, Hammett, Lars, and the other dude...with Cliff Burton at the wheel!

The lyrics speak volumes....I think surely God is German! My dad was...so why not God, too?