Rapper: I Wouldn't Help Police Catch A Serial Killer

Tom goose...

There's a Tony Montana quote that sums up what I have to say to you. I won't post it verbatim, but the last word in it is "man" (sounds like "mane" when Tony says it). YOU figure it out.

I will NEVER conform to white America. Tony's quote once again for you and anyone else who says otherwise. At work, we ALL act differently, so I don't consider that conforming to white America. In my personal life...Tony's quote again.

This weekend, I saw something I'm quite sure you would absolutely DETEST. Know what it was? A college graduation with NUMEROUS black graduates. Black people finishing up their college careers and getting their degrees. Black people moving on to a better chapter in their lives.

Watching the brothers and sisters graduate, I couldn't help but think how people with your mentality would just HATE. You haters hate on us all day. Y'all hate on people in the hood, y'all hate on people on TV with beaucoup money, y'all hate on people with college degrees. No matter where we're at, you haters will hate.

And at the same time, EVERYONE wants to be us (actually, what they think we are from BET and MTV). That is, until the cops show up. But guess what? T.I. said it best; you haters are motivation. You haters push us to do bigger and better things. Even in the hood that you LOVE to hate on, people are doing it big. But don't let me discourage you; keep hating.

BTW, I just brushed my shoulder off to you, hater tom goose. Haters, get on ya job...motivation.

ok. you know what? Implied, and truthseeka. im suprised this thread isn't locked yet. you keep bringing race into the picture. You only see what you want see.

neither one of you have argued anything that has to do with this thread in the last page. Im trying to keep this on the level and keep everything pointing towards "why is this man pomoting anarchism to our youth, and poluting their mind that the police are a bad thing?"

you have accused me of not reading anything you have wrote. Im embarassed to say that i have with no success, and have responded to what i thought was everything including anything that would obviously discredit me. I have my views, so do you.


Im a hardliner, i will admit that, i dont have a lot of pitty for violent people, and especially those that act tough and make statements like "YOU WANNA BE US," caulky does not fly with me, i know a facade when i hear one.

If you hate the government, that is one thing. If you hate the law? that is leading to places you dont wanna go sister. they got bigger guns than everyone you know and boast about.

You need the police, i think it is time you beat them at their own game. get some proper media attention. do things that they cant ignore.

There were some powerfull movements by black communities before they became hostages to their own people. Now because they didn't see the problem before it got out of hand, you start blaming the police because they have had enough.

Crack heads on Hastings get killed or left for dead by police all the time, and nobody who lives here really cares, they piss people off, they are a scar on the face of a beautifull city, and they are of all sorts of races, probably mostly white.

Think of it from a cops view.

"these people are taking our money, spending it on crack, fueling dealers and violence, and then they have the nerve to try and steel my tv. now we got to spend all our time chasing people we are paying to not do anything but smoke crack."

stereotyping is a bitch, the arab commuity is having an extremely tough time right now, you should think about joining forces.

oh... and before you go off on the crackhead line. I dont care if they got crack in their lungs or in their pocket, they are a crackhead to me.

And to keep you a little more level Implied... maybe you should understand that this thread is not about you or your college attendence, congradulations, but you went to school, you studied and stayed out of trouble. you did not have to snitch to go to college, you did it cause you wanted to right? Why i questioned your college attendence is because i dont see why you dont understand where i am coming from. i recognised you education in a couple posts prior to point out why there is no way for all those other people to get out. you never reply to that, you just say

"we cant.... because it costs money...its too hard to save... im just going to ignore that you mentioned family and freinds"

Ive put a lot of time on this thread trying to work with you and give you and your freinds support with reminding you that there are other ways, and you just pick out everything that you can spin as negative and fire back. Go ahead and fire back, but at least give me some good reason why you wont do anything positive about it.

Oh.. and this example for me would sell it, but you probably wont read it through before trying to come back with an excuse.

Indo Canadians here, were certainly stereotyped after a lash of killings between Indo gangs. Police were cracking down hard, and communities were getting upset about the harrasment. So you know what the Indo community started doing? Becoming police, local MLA's and other positions of credit. But beeing in with the police Made the Ino community really happy, finally police cars were showing up in their neighborhoods asking people how their day was instead of searching for weapons. The police were taught from their own peers what to look for.

But hey... "Dont Snitch"... that sounds like a much better policy.

I am going to try to address all of your points :

--->This is way race has come into this topic. Cam’ron said he wont snitch. The stop snitching movement is a hip-hop one that involves the African-American community. You are more likey to find a black person who doesn’t trust the police than a white person. Why is that? “I only see what I want to see” I see the world the only way I can and that is through the eyes of a young black female. I don’t want to see police brutality but it is there..so I’m not going to ignore it just because you cant face reality.

--->

Originally posted by tom goose neither one of you have argued anything that has to do with this thread in the last page. Im trying to keep this on the level and keep everything pointing towards "why is this man pomoting anarchism to our youth, and poluting their mind that the police are a bad thing?

What?? I have continually tried to keep this topic steered on the issue of police because it is my opinion that it is mostly their fault for the average joes feeling like cam’ron. Camron probably did not develop these feelings as soon as he became a famous and it is my opinion that the actions of the police that has fueled the ‘stop sntichin’ campaign me at least that is on topic. You have continuosly made comments about conforming to corporate America. You sir are the one that is staying off topic

-->Who said that I hate the law?? I dislike the people who are ‘enforcing ‘’it because they are not doing so properly.Beat them at their own game?? The NYPD and LAPD have had major media attention drawn to their flaws and yet they are still doing the same old thing. So that doesn’t work. Next idea?

--->You speak of crack heads..I am not talking about crackheads being arrested.I have not referred to one throughout any of my posts. Its funny that throughout this whole discussion I have spoken about countless black citizens being harassed and what goes through your mind is crackhead?? Its one thing to stereotype a crackhead and assume they are doing something wrong..Its a whole different thing when police stereotype ALL black people. You still have yet to talk about those situations where average black citizens are harassed. Whether its driving a car through a ‘nice’ neighborhood, the wrong side of town or walking into a ‘nice store’. No throughout your posts you have in essence given the police permission to improperly do their job ‘well if they would just conform’, “they need leave the ghetto”, or “if they weren’t crackheads”

--->

Originally posted by tom goose you did not have to snitch to go to college, you did it cause you wanted to right

In reference to the college thing..I don’t understand where you are coming from because I know how hard it is. I was lucky I had good test scores and they gave me money. You mock the fact that I say college cost but without scholarships I would not be here. I know quite a few students (white and black) who deal drugs just so they can go to college and be allowed the opportunity to have a better life..I’ve been told from the beginning that education is the key..but 1)people make mistakes and don’t go to college for a wide variety of reasons 2) Two words institutional racism..i really don’t want to go off on another tangent but I will say this it involves lack of proper teaching, supplies (books), and support by some teachers in “urban schools”.Trust me if I snitched on half the things that I have seen people do (cops included ) I would not be here. I guarantee the police would have already ‘accidently’ released my name and I would have been dealt with if not by the police first then by the streets.

--->I don’t really know much about Indo-Canadians so I really wont speak on them. But there are a lot of black cops and people in high position. A lot of black cops are also corrupted and for some reason tend to act just as bad as white ones. Did you not read my post about what happened in Jacksonville involving the son of the Sherriff who was black?.. I’ve heard it put this way ‘Once an African-American puts on the uniform chances are he ceases to be Black and in fact becomes Blue’ (disclaimernce again not ALL but MOST). Despite the fact that there are blacks in position of power there is always another person above calling the shots.

--->

Originally posted by tom gooseI’ve put a lot of time on this thread trying to work with you and give you and your friends support with reminding you that there are other ways, and you just pick out everything that you can spin as negative and fire back. Go ahead and fire back, but at least give me some good reason why you wont do anything positive about it.

I’m not sure what you are referring to here… Uh let me know so that I can properly respond…

-->And I know I have heard from shots but I’m not sure if you stated your opinion with regards to the police having their own ‘stop snitchin’ campaign. Once again you are judging the victims and making us change our ways but have yet to suggest any action on the part of the police.

OK... where i see we stand... you beleive the police cause tension, and i believe that drugs, and poor attitudes are causing it.

If i agree that police need to tone down the violence and start to appreciate young black people in poor neighborhoods, will you please agree, that once that is settled there is more that can be done to get people in the getto moving rather than dealing drugs and acting completely offensive. I dont think that stoping police brutality is going to change the fact that black people are useing the sale of narcotics to move ahead, even if for just an iminent short period. If the drugs and crime were to stop, i think that there would be a much better chance of getting pull in the lobbies and media circles.

Now I DO understand that innocent people do get harassed and sometimes even wrongfully charged, but by your example you have shown that the innocent can leave and go to college and get real jobs.

You might find me unrealistic, but i think when you leave college and enter the real world, you will find that whats going on in american gettos is rediculous on all levels. there are many black people in suits living up to the role that blue collars expect because they are the ones that created this civilized society.


Im not saying I agree with blue collar society, i think there a million different ways that society could live, we just happen to be living in the one that causes the most dispair to those that just want a little.


For the record. my hard earned dollars do not contribute to this messed up society. I am not a straite arrow by any means, and i have to deal with my own discrimination problems. I cant own a home, i cant work in one place for too long, i cant save money in a bank, i cant get married to the mother of my son who i also cant legaly claim without causing tension between my girlfriend and I.

Do you think the government is going to give a rats about my opinion in society. Im going to have to answer for this. I already have a $70,000 dollar tab, and thats just from what they have found so far. The government has been hastling my girlfriend ever since my son was born for past GST credits and proof that we do not live together. She pays her taxes and does her own thing. We have completely different views. I like politics, she likes sushi. She wants a house, I wont use a loan, this society is certainly restraining me from happyness. But do you think that that is going to keep me from getting my family a house?

I know that you are going to call me a hypocrate, because i obviously have a problem with conformity. but as you went to college in a white mans world, and have your reasons. I have mine for being traped in society while all i want to do is frolic in the meadows, and maybe one day through space.

Sorry for the sidetrack, but ive gotten to know a bit about you in this ordeal, i thought you should know a little about me.


Im sure you must be thinking like me that this is getting old and we have hit a stalemate. and i think we are keeping this thread open longer than need be. nobody new has given any protest in the last couple of pages.

I will gladly hear anything that you feel needs saying to counter what i just said, but if you want me to reply i think i should do it through PM since nobody else seems has anything to add.

One key thing to remember...I don't think Implied is denying that there are other causes, such as drugs and mentality. She never said police is the only problem black people face. She said...because of police behaviour to black people(in the past and present), we have a problem with trusting them. Even some white people do, especially those who are close friends with black people. Because my aunt's friend(who's white) was harassed along with my aunt because she was to "chummy" with her black friend.

Like they're not supposed to be friends?

All we're saying is that the police force has a problem with their behaviour to all races at times, but especially minorities. We're not dealing with educating ones self to beat the system, we're not dealing with drugs...we're dealing with what can the police do to better their service for the people they serve.

All people, whether stupid, black, white, literate, illiterate...all of them should be comfortable with the justice system. They should all be happy to be in the presence of police and feel safe there. But this is not the case. This is where the point has reached. We're not talking about college and all of that...a college drop-out should feel safe by the police, no matter his race, status....or whatever. We're not talking about how some black people are lazy and do not try the best way they can to come out of the ghetto. The point is it shouldn't matter that they're in the ghetto. It shouldn't matter if they're in a trailor park...those things should not matter when it comes to protecting and serving the people that you work for. Like you said Tom, we all have our own problems to deal with, but I personally feel that justice shouldn't be one of them. Just stating it sounds rediculous..."I'm afraid of the police". LOL, it's rediculous. That shouldn't be the case. I like your pints Tom, and you do make some very good ones, but all we're saying is that the issue of police behaviour in some areas shouldn't even be an issue in the first place.

Bill Gates and a poor black man/woman or hispanic woman, or asian woman, or Irish man should have equal rights in the eyes of the law and equal rights as human beings. That is what we're saying. We're saying that is not the case. We are not treated equally, we(black people mostly) are picked on, especially by the law. Or college education has nothing to do with that. If I have to be educated, and literate, and live in Palm Spring to be treated as a human being like the rest of you, then there is something wrong with the system, not us.

If we have to be in the ghetto...or illiterate, or educated, or a business owner and black to be harassed by the police...everyone should be harassed by the police. From George Bush, to DMX. If this is how it is...either we're all harassed, or aren't harassed at all.

[edit on 15-5-2007 by sdrawkcab]

^^too bad we dont have the WATS award anymore...I really couldnt have said it better myself.

Tome goose- your story helps me understand you a bit better. Although i still disagree i see where you are coming from

Okay first off let me just pay respect where it's due to Rasobasi420 for standing up for hip hop. And second let me frown in disgust at the ignorant fools who shun it. My god people how narrowminded can you be? It doesn't take a genius to be aware of the fact that mainstream rap has obviously gone down the gutter but there are thousands and thousands of emcees (rappers for you stuck up know it all bastards that know nothing) that have the most marvelous lyrics.

Sage francis, Aesop Rock, MF Doom, Mr.Lif, El-P, Eyedea,....I could literally go on forever.

I have to really chuckle at the moron who said "I don't listen to that music and I never will." HA!

www.lyricsfreak.com...&+abilities/color+my+world+mine_20169782.html

Those are the lyrics to a masterpiece of a song by the f***ing genius of a lyricist eyedea. If those of you that generalize and rely on stereotypes would get off your high horses you would realize that hip hop is really just an advanced form of poetry. The culture contains some ingenious lyricists who have practically mastered the english language and execute nearly every poetic device created with thier music. #ing morons. Ignorance runs rampant on this site.

Yo...put one up and shackle me, not clean logic procreation
I did not invent the wheel I was the crooked spoke adjacent
While the triple sixers lassos keep angels roped in the basement
I walk the block with a halo and a stick poking your patience
Ya'll catch a 30 second flash visual
Dirty cooperative Neptune blue head trick splits
Ridiculous fathom the splicing of first generation
# up or trickle down anti hero smack (Cracking!)
I paste the game to zero all completion green (Splash!)
Took an early retirement pick a dream
American nightmare hogging the screen
I'll hold the door open so you can stumble in
and you would stop following me around the jungle gym
Now it's an honor and I spell it with the 'H' I stole from heritage
Marry crutch stolen wretched refuge refuse my teaming resonance
I promise temperance storm breed with a leaning conscious
In a credence relax responsive with my sports outsource the wattage
And I'm sleeping now (Wow!) And the settlers laugh
You won't be laughing when your covered wagons crash
You won't be laughing when the buses drag your brother's flags into rags
You won't be laughing when your front lawn is spangled with epitaphs
You won't be laughing
And I hang my boots to rest when I'm impressed
So I triple knot them then I forgot them
This origami dream is beautiful
but man those wings will never leave the ground
Without a feather and a lottery ticket, now settle down

All I ever wanted was to pick apart the day,
put the pieces back together my way.
All I ever wanted was to pick apart the day,
put the pieces back together my way.
All I ever wanted was to pick apart the day,
put the pieces back together my way.
All I ever wanted was to pick apart the day,
put the pieces back together my way.

And that's not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the stunning genius vocabulary and lyricism some emcees use. To the untrained eye some of it may seem to "not make sense". Well all that means is that the metaphors and forms of complex wordplay are just way over your head. Any one who shuns hip hop only does so because it's friggin way over thier heads. The commercial branch of it sucks, point the obvious, but the underground form of it can be truly amazing. Ignorance, Narrowmindedness, and a lack of empathy are the symptoms keeping us (myself included since I am not perfect) in this disillusioned state. But simply because you are to mind sheltered and brain washed don't extend your ignorance into what is supposed to be an intellectually stimulating forum discussion.

Because that just makes you look stupid.

[edit on 15-5-2007 by Powdered Water]

I really have nothing further to contribute to this discussion seeing as cam'rom is not a concern in my life. I just wanted to defend an amazing culture seeing as it is the MOST advanced form of lyricism. Period. I love rock as much as the next guy but as deep as the lyrics go, nothing most of those songs can muster can even vaugley touch the complexity of an Aesop Rock song.

google Aesop Rock lyrics. If your smart enough to understand them that is.




Open mind/Empathy = Freedom>Narrow mind/Ignorance = Spiritual Entrapment

sdrawkcab

I read what you said, and then read it agian cause it sounded so good, and i dont disagree with you at all.

I have trouble seeing or understanding some of the smaller inside the big picture. I mean no disrespect when i say that, i do not mean police brutality is a small point literally.

An exampe of what i mean:

I had my bank acount closed on me (within a month of being asessed by the canadian revenue agency) and they told me that i had too many NSF charges (money i paid them) and in order to re-open my acount i would need overdraft protection, of coarse what the bank manager and i both knew was, i was not elegable for a overdraft due to poor credit (a completely different agency). As she told me this, and all the pieces started to fit together in my mind, i realised, my fight was not with this woman, she is trapped in the same system im in, there is no way for me to get what i want from this system and the variouse agencies that i was dealing with were all protected by the one entity that wanted me turned of like a switch... My own government.


The Law is not against poor black people living in america. It is against the law to harm anyone or to act racist or make racist remarks to anyone.
But america is corrupt. Police do not work for the law. they work for the city, the state, or the federal government, those are the bosses of the people that are messing with you. They are the ones that found a profit from locking poor black people up and making a large budget to skim of,f and passed legislation that would make it easy to lock you up for long periods of time.

Its like the government taxing tobacco, seeing a profit, then making it legal to add chemicals that are knowing harmfull and addictive. There will never be any case against the government made, they will reap a profit until there is non left to be made just like any other business, only they make the laws that allow them to profit.

Im sure you know all of this, most people do, but what i think we are all forgeting, is that the police have guns and the law behind them, and we are going to need those to be on OUR side when all hell breaks loose. Police need to understand that they are dealing with the same BIG problem that you are, they are only taking it out on you. Im sure they have got problems backstage too, and if you dig into enough a lot of them probably have to do with some sort of government intervension.

I know a lot of my advice goes by as "too easy" if it were possible it would have been done already, well... the way the getto's and the police are acting, it is "TOO EASY" for the government to be doing what they are doing to you. You need to start making friends with your enemies, and not just because that is my opinion and i have done no research, you just have to, and that is that.

And to back that up, i have another short story, im going to be brief and thin, because i dont want want to see any back lash, yes im paranoid but she was a government employee:

During my dealings with the government, i spoke with one indavidual, and after being totaly human and honest with her, we started getting into my views which were causing me so much hassle. She ended up giving me a lot of usefull info (nothing official) and she also gave me a lot of hope, becasue she gave me her full suport and comended what i was doing, she even gave me a generouse break. And while ending the conversation she even agree she would vote for me if the opportunity ever came.

Dont you see. She had no idea what color my skin was or what i dressed like, but because we spoke on the same level, we were able to see eye to eye. Those are OUR people in there.

Now keep in mind, I called her, she never called me,she only sent me a letter with demands (protocall) and a contact # if neccessary

If you walk up to an officer and explain your situation and your life with truth and passion with as much attempt as you can make at being clear and uniform, and he beats you up, you let me know. I will personally go down there and kick his butt. i hope you dont find an exception to make me make good on what i said, but i hope you see the underlining idea that goes with that.

take this argument we are or were having. when we first started we each knew then what we know now, and we argued back and forth, we still beleive what did before, but after enough discussion (arguing) we were able to determine that we do agree, we just see things differently. Everyone is in their own box, and if these boxes dont start communicating, we will never be the majority of the BIG BOX that confines us all.



And one more thing, ImpliedChaos.... you are a strong black woman, but i think you are stuborn. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, i am too, and both of us pushed our own way of seeing things on eachother without first seeing where the other was coming from. Because we demanded others see us before we would see them, we ended up argueing. And that is again the point im trying to make. someone has to make the first step, and allthough it is not fair that the victims make it, it is only logical because they are the ones that are being effected by the lack of change.

And one more thing, ImpliedChaos.... you are a strong black woman, but i think you are stuborn. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, i am too, and both of us pushed our own way of seeing things on eachother without first seeing where the other was coming from. Because we demanded others see us before we would see them, we ended up argueing. And that is again the point im trying to make. someone has to make the first step, and allthough it is not fair that the victims make it, it is only logical because they are the ones that are being effected by the lack of change.

yeah i've been told plenty of times that i am stubborn (honestly i think its my worst yet best quality ..depends on the situation) Anyways...at first i saw you as attacking the victims...but now I see what you really meant. You are right someone does have to make the first step and while we are in disagreement as to who that should be at least we can agree that the step needs to made and the problem need to be fixed.

BTW has anyone noticed that the OP was posted a month ago..we sure do know how to keep a topic alive

Agreed. I do see your point Tom, and I haven't taken offense to anything you've stated, because it's true.

One thing I do admire is that we're dealing with peolpe that listen and atleast try to understand. It makes no sense arguing a point to someone who won't listen or won't attempt to understand...or give you the chance to speak. I thank you for that Tom and I do understand what you're saying.

At first...I didn't entirely. I would miss some of your main points and ask; What has this got to do with my main point? And in doing that I disallowed myself to understand why you said some of the things you said. I didn't see why you made certain points, or said certain things...I only saw that you said them, and that can be a problem when trying to understand someone or something. When one understand why someone feels a certain way...and that reason is also sensible and justified...they better understand the other person's situation, and can speak, taking their situation or reason into consideration.

I wasn't quite sure what you were getting at until your last post Tom. I understand it clearly now...and agree with it.

i know who camron is...and yes i agree with the person who said he wouldnt feel the same if his family got killed....i feel if snitching afects his record sales then he is a bad rapper because rap isnt about who is snitching or anything like that its about who is the nicest and who gets there point across at the end of the day...i rap but i dont only rap because the money i rap because i love hip-hop and thats what i was raised around i would like to grow up and move to a nice neighborhood or the suberbs..thats the reason i rap...but anyways cam shouldnt be doing that especially a rapper who was friends and use to rap with a legend-Big L(RIP) its ok to rap about whatever you feel but at least set an example for the youth and next generations..by him telling people to not snitch then what if a little kid see's a murder its better for him to tell then live with that inside of him for ever.....thats why people say hip-hop is dead because rappers dont even rap for the right reasons anymore they do it all for the money and dont even like rap..most just have random kids write their rhymes and then they spit it and get rich and then pay the person who originally wrote the song.. when i make it as a rapper i am going to set an example and speak the truth....for example see 50 cent alot of other rappers call him a snitch but look how rich he is..he has been rappin less time than camron and is like so much richer than him..snitchin doesnt really affect your sales being wack does and camron cant even talk because his whole company doesnt even sell as much as 50 cent

Shocking...lol.....Really a rapper for crime...Who would have thunk it..Rap is like disco anyway...Only people that listen to it are 14 yr old girls and 8yr old white kids

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
Shocking...lol.....Really a rapper for crime...Who would have thunk it..Rap is like disco anyway...Only people that listen to it are 14 yr old girls and 8yr old white kids

Um so you obviously dont know what you are talking about. Teenage white boys as well as blacks and Hispanics of all ages listen to rap...but you are commenting on a topic that you are not educated in.

Originally posted by the reaper
i know who camron is...and yes i agree with the person who said he wouldnt feel the same if his family got killed....i feel if snitching afects his record sales then he is a bad rapper because rap isnt about who is snitching or anything like that its about who is the nicest and who gets there point across at the end of the day...i rap but i dont only rap because the money i rap because i love hip-hop and thats what i was raised around i would like to grow up and move to a nice neighborhood or the suberbs..thats the reason i rap...but anyways cam shouldnt be doing that especially a rapper who was friends and use to rap with a legend-Big L(RIP) its ok to rap about whatever you feel but at least set an example for the youth and next generations..by him telling people to not snitch then what if a little kid see's a murder its better for him to tell then live with that inside of him for ever.....thats why people say hip-hop is dead because rappers dont even rap for the right reasons anymore they do it all for the money and dont even like rap..most just have random kids write their rhymes and then they spit it and get rich and then pay the person who originally wrote the song.. when i make it as a rapper i am going to set an example and speak the truth....for example see 50 cent alot of other rappers call him a snitch but look how rich he is..he has been rappin less time than camron and is like so much richer than him..snitchin doesnt really affect your sales being wack does and camron cant even talk because his whole company doesnt even sell as much as 50 cent

ok... your with rap and making money, or are you against it?

you say that rappers are only in it for the money, then you say that it is ok that 50 cent is a snitch because he made so much money doing it. you have me confused.

I hope you make it as a rapper. and i hope your good. can i give a suggestion though?

this whole "i make beats" is a scam, and it ruined rap in my opinion.
If Britain would have banned the synthesizer for profesional recording like they wanted to, maybe the US would have followed and rap could have went somewhere that i would have followed.

I can tap my fingers too, does that make me talented?

4 people playing music in unisen while their lead speaker blasts out what they are ALL feeling. that gets your spirit jumpin.

Implied

that guy is a fool. Its nice to see you all over it though.

Originally posted by tom goose
this whole "i make beats" is a scam, and it ruined rap in my opinion.
If Britain would have banned the synthesizer for profesional recording like they wanted to, maybe the US would have followed and rap could have went somewhere that i would have followed.

I can tap my fingers too, does that make me talented?

Be careful with that. Percussion has been valid music for millennia, and beats are just that, percussion. Though you are correct that Pro-Tools, and similar programs make it much easier, that doesn't take away from the sound. It can still sound good.

What it does do is make very untalented individuals think they are talented, but what's the harm in that?

BTW, as far as finger snapping goes,
what about this guy

You'd have to shake your hips like him though to get any respect finger snapping.




[edit on 30-5-2007 by Rasobasi420]

Until you can make some of these complicated beats that these rapper's (actually its the producers and DJs) can, then you cant say it's a scam. Thats like saying rock sucks because anyone can pluck strings on a guitar. Or classical music is crap because hell anyone can blow into a flute and make notes come out. Making beats like anything else requires a certain level of skill to 1) operate the different types of equipment and 2) make music that will appeal to people and make a song great.Sure it may not be rocket science but it is music and it has provided an opportunity for many young black/white/Hispanic people out of their poverty situation, and given them new opportunities. I know a few people that make beats and its not as easy as it looks.

I think we're misinterpreting tom a bit. I don't think he is saying that it's a sucky thing...for lack of better words.

I think he was pointing out that it's all tasteless now. All a repetitve recipe. It's not where it was.
Making beats and producing music are 2 different things. The RZA is an artist...the guy who produced laffy taffy is a beat maker...& a crappy one at that. The skill in producing is mixing & mastering, the art is creativity. The skill in great beat making is making great harmony & tight composition(composition is the artistic aspect of it). Most good producers can produce great beats...or rather music. Most beat makers can't.

I produce music, as a hobby & personally, I can say that most of the music that main stream hip hop has along side it sucks. Just like underground rap artists, underground producers create such works of art it's not funny. Like some underground rappers, I've seen, or rather heard some very talented producers conform to the lameness of the commercial crowd, just to pay the bills off of what they're doing, which isn't such a bad thing. I do not think creativity should be limited...and to a point, hip hop music does limit it(I'm not speaking about the lyrics, but the beats). They have to cater to a certain people. With that being the case, they have to stay in the rules of what sells. Making music has no limits...making music for a purpose does. The RZA himself said he wasn't feeling alive making normal hip Hop tracks anymore, that's why he really wanted to get into doing movie scores & such.

Yes there are a great beats in the Hip Hop scene, many of which actually sound like music...but most do not, especially the main releases. They are geared toward sales, therefore they are also geared toward parties, gogo clubs & the likes. This isn't always the case, but even great producers sometimes have trakcs that sound like a 14 year old would make...for sales purposes. The songs hip Hop songs that are the biggest hits have a certain sound to them...accompanied by certain lyrics. Money talks!

sorry i havnt replied to anything, looks like i started it all over again huh.

ive been moving and working all day for the last couple days, tomorrow too, but maybe i might have some clear thoughts by this weekend.

i want to contest some of your peoples posts, but i dont have enough active brain cells at the moment.

but to try and make my possition more clear. electronic beats have taken the fun out of certain genre of music for me. i dont get the vibes out of a synthetic sound as i do out of instrumental. I think it has to do with the insturment projecting the energy of the artist.

Its one thing to say that it doesn't do anything for you, or that its just not your taste but to say that it is a scam..or that it ruined rap (even though when rap first came out it was mostly about the Djs and the beats which used mostlly sythetic and electronic sounds) is in my opinion not fair.

-->All it took was one random person to restart the debate