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Originally posted by vladmir
Originally posted by Seeker PI
You say, and I quote.
"Has nothing to do with religion, but a universal peace understanding. I find perfectly normal to present various level of this research field, based on the level of consciousness of the audience".
Has nothing to do with religion. Are you kidding me?
Let me jump in here, and tock, you can correct me if i misinterpreted you.
When he says, "It has nothing to do with religion" he is right........it has to do with spirituality, NOT any particular religious beliefs.
Whats the difference?
Spirituality is one's character or quality that makes one transcend the barriers of worldliness, caste, creed and sex, and realize one's connection with the Universe.
It makes no difference if you go to a Temple, a Church or a Mosque, the brotherhood of life is universal, the web of life on Earth is a reality.
The emotions and values of Love, reverence of life, light and peace to all beings are universal.
And this has ALWAYS been the reality of things, it is no dreamy concept.
It is nothing to be scoffed at or laughed at.
It is not imagination, but a fact.
But just as the concept of aliens has been riduculed, so has this by calling it 'new-age' or whatever.
Its just that now, the time to actualise the potential has reached, and the new seed is about to sprout.
Thats why, when we talk about a conciousness shift, this is exactly what is meant.
Old binding belief systems are shed conciously, to adopt modern set of values of harmony and reverence of nature and life.
And those who dont or cant raise their understanding to this level...........it remains to be seen what is the outcome. War? I dont know.
Thats what its all about.
And thats what our Earth is gearing up for.
And it IS going to happen, because it has already begun.
[edit on 12-3-2007 by vladmir]
Originally posted by simonmagus
Originally post by tock
He doesn't speak what you want to hear, what would make you feel alright or better about yourself.
How do you know what I want to hear or feel? As a student of mysticism I appreciate Dr. Greer's views and see the truth in his statements. These topics share a strong relationship and there is no doubt about it.
However, by publicly mixing esoteric topics with UFOs he is risking credibility and future whistle blowers. This is a basic fact and there is no way to sugar coat it. Many of us are counting on him so please excuse us if we hold him to a higher standard.
Originally posted by Selmer2
Vladimir's views I support.
You can't have one thing without the other. If you want to be "enlightened" you cannot close yourself to things at your discretion.
In history individuals have broken down barriers with what we think is morally correct.
We established ideas of reasoning, rationality, morals.
Notable individuals succeded to remove "immoral" barriers.
Yet there is still conflict and contradictions in actions to prevent us from reaching science or as it is the state of knowing.
Prometheus once stated that weight is negative and light is positive.
Morals/ethics: Determining what is correct, i.e. positive.
Science: Searching for truth, knowledge and justification.
Spirituality: Searching for truth, knowledge and justification.
Religion: Creating rules, laws, ethics based on the unexplained (i.e. spiritual).
Religion, morals & ethics (as parts of civilizations) are variable and usually die, were as spirituality and science are not. You see spirituality and science don't terminate as this is what history tells us.
Science in time will understand everything, although the definition of science is contradiction. This is because the same people that formulate scientific ideas assume other ideas & elements are incompatible and so they forget science and time will lead to perfect knowledge which will incorporate everything as known, thus including spirituality.
You can't have an Alien without spirituality. And you can't have spirituality without an Alien.
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END OF RANT TRANSMISSION
Originally posted by millerman
In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)
Originally posted by Seeker PI
Originally posted by millerman
In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)
Is it manufactured by Sony or Nintendo ?
That statement may seem ridiculous, but in the context of this thread it does not look out of place.
And before Santas helpers come a rushing, don't bother, I've already seen enough to form an opinion.
Good luck Beaming in the Mother Ships. Alas it looks like you won't be taking me with you.
Originally posted by Seeker PI
Originally posted by millerman
In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)
Is it manufactured by Sony or Nintendo ?
That statement may seem ridiculous, but in the context of this thread it does not look out of place.
And before Santas helpers come a rushing, don't bother, I've already seen enough to form an opinion.
Good luck Beaming in the Mother Ships. Alas it looks like you won't be taking me with you.
Originally posted by millerman
In Defense Of Dr. Greer
kroms33 and others attacking Greer:
If we can first accept the notion that as the founder of CSETI, Greer and his people have been out there at the forefront making real contact with ETs for the past 15 or 20 years.... that pretty much makes him an expert, if not THE expert, on the ET reality.
What you have to understand is that when he talks about this nexus where all matter, energy and consciousness are unified and One.... to the ET races, that isn't "religion" or "spirituality" or "New Age", it is a scientific FACT for them, and a lot of their technology is even based on that principle. According to Greer, you cannot even develop the technology to achieve interstellar travel without a thorough understanding and mastery of that principle.
In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)
Granted it seems too bizarre to be believable for a lot of people, but then again, a radio or television set would seem like "Magic" or "Witchcraft" to someone say from the Medieval age with no understanding of electromagnetic signals or the various means of transmitting them.....
Levitation and anti-gravity? Also a scientific reality with already existing proof-of-principle technologies....
Now when he starts talking about these things that he sees when he meditates, like Earth being female and Mars being male and another planet being "gay" - okay that is kooky, I will give you that. But on the other hand, many of our absolute greatest scientists and inventors and thinkers were also quite "kooky" and eccentric - Einstein and Tesla most certainly were. You have to allow people a little bit of room to be creatively weird and artistic and have weird ideas - or we would never make any progress as a civilization!
Give him and his people a chance! Has anybody else on this earth come forward with an army of 400 highly credible whistleblowers......?
Originally posted by millerman
c3hamby: That's the way I look at it.
He came through for the Truth movement in a MAJOR way with the 2001 NPC conference, and no one else in Ufology has come anywhere even remotely close to such an accomplishment.
And if he succeeds with this impending major Contact event that he spoke of, he will have come through for us AGAIN.
I wonder how many times he'll have to succeed and lead the way for us before people accept that he knows what he's doing and he's speaking the truth?
Originally posted by tock
Just opinions, with no facts to support you again.
Do you see the Prime Minister accepting private meeting with any individuals asking for it?
They are too busy to deal with Jo Blo that blinded by his preconceptions.
I would do exactly the same when someone like you came to me.
They are passed the point where they need to provide proofs. If you haven't done your homeworks, then it's your darn fault, not ours.
If you ask questions that were already answered in the past, well of course you won't be received with open arms.
I'm passed the point to discredit the man's work just because there is a few things I don't quite understand yet, or because it's out of my belief system.
What matters is that we seek for truth. Yeah, there is quite a lot of weird stuff in all this, but I have a set goal to understand everything related to this, even if it means putting aside some of my misconceptions and cultural conditionning.
I have discovered that putting aside that conditionning lead me to discover a sea of great phenomena. For that, I thank Steven Greer and his team.
Originalyl posted by kroms33
Originally posted by millerman
If we can first accept the notion that as the founder of CSETI, Greer and his people have been out there at the forefront making real contact with ETs for the past 15 or 20 years.... that pretty much makes him an expert, if not THE expert, on the ET reality.
I am sorry, but I have been researching UFOs on and off for about the same time period - that doesn't make me an expert in any way shape of form.
ETs may be real - I believe they are. If Greer is claiming to be in contact with the ETs - he is really making a mockery out of the entire disclosure issue.
Ok, I don't want to sound harsh or even like I am attacking anyone - so don't take this personally please. I am very sorry to say, that the technology to traverse the stars is being worked on in labs all across the world. With zero-point technology (supported by string theory quantum physics) - within the next 100 years we will have gravity manipulation - enabling us to theoretically circumvent the laws of Einsteinium physics. It has nothing to do with what you believe spiritually - it would be a matter of scientific fact. So, Greer, in all his infinite wisdom might not understand the very basic principles involved with current technological breakthroughs.
In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)
Ok, I am not sure why you would want to state something that unsubstantiated in a debate about Greer's credibility - it rather does damage it more. What angers researchers - is the fact that all this damage is putting the topic of UFOs back into the tabloids and not on a scientific table for analysis.
He could have waited until after 'contact' or 'disclosure' had been established to come forward.
Perhaps then, people would have had a general understanding and 'awareness' of what he speaks of... but coming forward before any tangible proof has been placed into public scrutiny: thats suicidal for your campaign to get accredited.
I understand that - everyone does - what we (researchers) are angry about is that Greer came forward with all this mumbo-jumbo spirituality and discredited the disclosure project. Tell me: why would congress even acknowledge his pleas? They wouldn't, and everyone here knows it.
But on the other hand, many of our absolute greatest scientists and inventors and thinkers were also quite "kooky" and eccentric - Einstein and Tesla most certainly were. You have to allow people a little bit of room to be creatively weird and artistic and have weird ideas - or we would never make any progress as a civilization!
Sorry, not in our current society's scientific standards we do not have to allow any room. And that is what I am trying to tell everyone supporting him: HE just destroyed any credibility - and destroyed all the witness credibility along with his 'beliefs'.
Give him and his people a chance! Has anybody else on this earth come forward with an army of 400 highly credible whistleblowers......?
I have given him as many chances as necessary. I have written him, tried to talk to him - nothing. Someone stated that he kind of is "like a rock star", I have to agree. He wants your money.
For disclosure - come out with the evidence - present it to a scientific committee; get the people of the USA and the world to back your effort - pressure world governments to come clean, and when they do - then go all 'kooky' with spirituality. Otherwise, your just another "UFO kook" to the public and government officials.
In a court of law - you have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to win a case. WHILE I believe that Greer HAS the evidence - 450 + witnesses plus FOIA documents that back many of their claims: I think he is discrediting them at the same time by relinquishing rubbish (like a remote viewing alien helm, and homosexual planetary bodies...).
IF you had all this evidence in a court of law, and you were called to testify - and you started talking about garbage that the judge and jury couldn't associate with reality - YOU would lose the case.
Originally posted by millerman
Okay good but have you researched what exactly it is that CSETI does? They do things like going to places where there are waves of UFO sightings occuring, and they proactively make contact with the crafts. And Greer has allegedly been doing this for at least 15 years. That is why I said he is THE expert....
ETs may be real - I believe they are. If Greer is claiming to be in contact with the ETs - he is really making a mockery out of the entire disclosure issue.
How so? If "they" WON'T LET HIM put his evidence on live TV...?
Well what I was trying to say is, when you get up to that level, what you discover is that the science BECOMES spiritual. You discover that all matter, energy and consciousness are One, in a non-local, non-linear, and sort of Holographic way (the Whole is in every Part), and that you can even develop proof-of-principle technologies like a Remote Viewing helmet. Once you get to that level, there's no longer a need for a false dichotomy of Science vs Religion/Spirituality/Mysticism.
Now, *I* don't know that for a FACT yet, but I understand the concept, and I'm trying to explain where Dr. Greer is coming from so that people can understand it. According to him, the ETs already know this, already have all the technology that makes use of that principle (the technology for travelling through "Hyperspace" or "Sub-space" uses it), and they're just waiting for us to sort of "wake up" and get it.
In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)
Well, 'contact' HAS been established. Greer and CSETI have been doing it for 15 years (or so they claim since I haven't been to a training)
But what do you do when the proof exists, you KNOW it exists, but it is very heavily guarded by the powers-that-be in the secret government and there's a complete mainstream media blackout on it? Do you just sit and wait for something to change.... or do you go ahead and start trying to educate people anyway?
Well hang on - since when do you speak for ALL researchers or "everyone here"?
As for congress, Greer says that he has briefed lots of them on this, and it's not that they don't believe him; it's that they are terrified of this rogue group that's sitting on the technologies.
(Have you read Hidden Truth Forbidden Knowledge BTW? He explains all these exact same things in that book.............)
Originally posted by kroms33
My statements are not OPINIONS - since NO GOVERNMENT has met with Greer. My statements remain FACTS until the day this happens.
No, I don't - but if someone with supposed congressional support and witnesses numbering in the hundreds had a press conference to draw public awareness into the spectrum - then yes, I think a prime minister or president would consider the matter...
The problem is I have done my homework - for you to 'assume' I have not would be consistent with you knowing who I am - and what I have studied.
The problem with you - your supporting Greer without any plausible proof of any of his claims. The only thing that he has going for him is the 450 + witnesses. Other then that - his 'guru spirituality alien brother" theme has discredited Ufology. For you to deny that - well, it speaks for itself.
Name one spiritualist claim that Greer has made that is truth and can be proven. I speak of the 'remote viewing' helmet, or his claims of contact with these beings. Show the world the proof - other then that; all you have is some wild claims and a true disinformational campaign to discredit all the witnesses if confronted in a scientific forum.