I don't want to derail this topic but I have to say that religion is a powerful tool, but not limited to weak-minded people. It's a lot better to tell someone, or believe, that there is something after you die rather than nothing at all. The thought of all the work you have done in his life, the joy of living, is only temporary.

Religion has it's pros and cons as does everything else. Sure, wars are fought over religion but wars are also fought over tons of other things, such as resources. Wars are even fought due to just pure hatred.

People are worth saving regardless of their beliefs. However, if they do not want to join along, then thats their choice. What is wrong though is to force things upon other people.

We are not 'advanced' though. We are still relatively primative. We do have powerful technologies but we still haven't broken away from our ancient ways. We still choose violence to solve our problems as well as a source of entertainment. Even through absolute peace, however, will we also be primative.

Need to think outside the box in order to be considered advanced.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by CidCaldensfey]

Originally posted by vladmir

Originally posted by Seeker PI
You say, and I quote.

"Has nothing to do with religion, but a universal peace understanding. I find perfectly normal to present various level of this research field, based on the level of consciousness of the audience".

Has nothing to do with religion. Are you kidding me?

Let me jump in here, and tock, you can correct me if i misinterpreted you.

When he says, "It has nothing to do with religion" he is right........it has to do with spirituality, NOT any particular religious beliefs.
Whats the difference?

Spirituality is one's character or quality that makes one transcend the barriers of worldliness, caste, creed and sex, and realize one's connection with the Universe.

It makes no difference if you go to a Temple, a Church or a Mosque, the brotherhood of life is universal, the web of life on Earth is a reality.

The emotions and values of Love, reverence of life, light and peace to all beings are universal.

And this has ALWAYS been the reality of things, it is no dreamy concept.
It is nothing to be scoffed at or laughed at.

It is not imagination, but a fact.

But just as the concept of aliens has been riduculed, so has this by calling it 'new-age' or whatever.

Its just that now, the time to actualise the potential has reached, and the new seed is about to sprout.

Thats why, when we talk about a conciousness shift, this is exactly what is meant.

Old binding belief systems are shed conciously, to adopt modern set of values of harmony and reverence of nature and life.

And those who dont or cant raise their understanding to this level...........it remains to be seen what is the outcome. War? I dont know.

Thats what its all about.

And thats what our Earth is gearing up for.

And it IS going to happen, because it has already begun.

[edit on 12-3-2007 by vladmir]

When I look at the catholics/christians, gathering by the 1000's lead by priests and such...and you have a set of rules and rituals to follow. That is what I call religion. And I'm not comfortable with it, especially when you have to send a check to your nearest church, sometimes 10 or 20% of your annual incoming.

Spirituality for me is something that can be handle at home or with your family and friends, that doesn't require huge investment of time and money.
It can made part of your life without falling into the various traps religion has...

When I first saw what Steven Greer was doing, I was impressed by the way he approached things. He teaches what he's got and let you go. One full week, then you're on your own, you can form you own group, share what you have discovered and there is no attachment of any sort, like a religion or sect\cult would have.

So he introduced us to spirituality and showed us that within each of us, we had the tools to walk that path, initiate peaceful contact. No needs of leaders or channelers or that kind of stuff. And the teaching was based on peaceful contact, bi-lateral sharing.

Forcing things on people I think is what makes religion the problem, when in fact, you have everything within yourself to find the path...
I see the future on this planet with spirituality taking root in the heart of each houses, and counselors available to assist when someone ask. That's be the best way to do it IMO.

That's how i see things anyway

Originally posted by simonmagus

Originally post by tock

He doesn't speak what you want to hear, what would make you feel alright or better about yourself.

How do you know what I want to hear or feel? As a student of mysticism I appreciate Dr. Greer's views and see the truth in his statements. These topics share a strong relationship and there is no doubt about it.

However, by publicly mixing esoteric topics with UFOs he is risking credibility and future whistle blowers. This is a basic fact and there is no way to sugar coat it. Many of us are counting on him so please excuse us if we hold him to a higher standard.

I was responding to the other man. You cannot disassociate both. In fact, the biggest wall the UFO field is hitting is this aspect. UFO reports reject anything that isn't solid, so that leaves only the report of craft(ARV) manufactured at Lockheed or other such facilities... when in fact, the real craft are in enegy forms, orbs and the like...

So we got it all wrong my friend, that's why Steven is coming out and speaking that way. There is no other way, and if you think he doesn't know his credibility takes a hit each time... He does know, he knew when the his latest book came out he would take a hit but still did it.

We are at a point where, truth has to come out...

We think that the beings coming down are just like us and will be landing in our backyard...

Originally posted by Selmer2
Vladimir's views I support.

You can't have one thing without the other. If you want to be "enlightened" you cannot close yourself to things at your discretion.

In history individuals have broken down barriers with what we think is morally correct.

We established ideas of reasoning, rationality, morals.

Notable individuals succeded to remove "immoral" barriers.

Yet there is still conflict and contradictions in actions to prevent us from reaching science or as it is the state of knowing.

Prometheus once stated that weight is negative and light is positive.

Morals/ethics: Determining what is correct, i.e. positive.
Science: Searching for truth, knowledge and justification.
Spirituality: Searching for truth, knowledge and justification.
Religion: Creating rules, laws, ethics based on the unexplained (i.e. spiritual).

Religion, morals & ethics (as parts of civilizations) are variable and usually die, were as spirituality and science are not. You see spirituality and science don't terminate as this is what history tells us.

Science in time will understand everything, although the definition of science is contradiction. This is because the same people that formulate scientific ideas assume other ideas & elements are incompatible and so they forget science and time will lead to perfect knowledge which will incorporate everything as known, thus including spirituality.

You can't have an Alien without spirituality. And you can't have spirituality without an Alien.

--------------------------------------------------
END OF RANT TRANSMISSION

You have put to words, what I couldn't. Nicely done.

In Defense Of Dr. Greer

kroms33 and others attacking Greer:

If we can first accept the notion that as the founder of CSETI, Greer and his people have been out there at the forefront making real contact with ETs for the past 15 or 20 years.... that pretty much makes him an expert, if not THE expert, on the ET reality.

What you have to understand is that when he talks about this nexus where all matter, energy and consciousness are unified and One.... to the ET races, that isn't "religion" or "spirituality" or "New Age", it is a scientific FACT for them, and a lot of their technology is even based on that principle. According to Greer, you cannot even develop the technology to achieve interstellar travel without a thorough understanding and mastery of that principle.

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Granted it seems too bizarre to be believable for a lot of people, but then again, a radio or television set would seem like "Magic" or "Witchcraft" to someone say from the Medieval age with no understanding of electromagnetic signals or the various means of transmitting them.....

Levitation and anti-gravity? Also a scientific reality with already existing proof-of-principle technologies....

Now when he starts talking about these things that he sees when he meditates, like Earth being female and Mars being male and another planet being "gay" - okay that is kooky, I will give you that. But on the other hand, many of our absolute greatest scientists and inventors and thinkers were also quite "kooky" and eccentric - Einstein and Tesla most certainly were. You have to allow people a little bit of room to be creatively weird and artistic and have weird ideas - or we would never make any progress as a civilization!

Give him and his people a chance! Has anybody else on this earth come forward with an army of 400 highly credible whistleblowers......?

Originally posted by millerman

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Is it manufactured by Sony or Nintendo ?

That statement may seem ridiculous, but in the context of this thread it does not look out of place.

And before Santas helpers come a rushing, don't bother, I've already seen enough to form an opinion.

Good luck Beaming in the Mother Ships. Alas it looks like you won't be taking me with you.

Originally posted by Seeker PI

Originally posted by millerman

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Is it manufactured by Sony or Nintendo ?

Har har.

No, but he does list some of the corporations that are sitting on these types of black technologies, like Lockheed, SAIC.... time will tell....

That statement may seem ridiculous, but in the context of this thread it does not look out of place.

And before Santas helpers come a rushing, don't bother, I've already seen enough to form an opinion.

Good, now go do more research.

Good luck Beaming in the Mother Ships. Alas it looks like you won't be taking me with you.

Well, I'm not involved with that, but he did mention that a major G7 country is getting involved with that and a major international open-contact event is imminent. So, laugh and ridicule all you like, but we'll all be finding out for sure soon enough....

Originally posted by Seeker PI

Originally posted by millerman

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Is it manufactured by Sony or Nintendo ?

That statement may seem ridiculous, but in the context of this thread it does not look out of place.

And before Santas helpers come a rushing, don't bother, I've already seen enough to form an opinion.

Good luck Beaming in the Mother Ships. Alas it looks like you won't be taking me with you.

[edit on 15-3-2007 by Selmer2]

I wasn't going to reply to this post, because I've about had it up to here with the 'Dr Greer is a fraud-no he isn't' discussions.

Although, I have to say that I admire your persistence, because it's good to have people who question everything as well as those with an open mind.

But after all these years that Dr Greer has been doing his thing, don't ya think you coulda debunked him by now? Or that he might've slipped up and done something that would've discredited him? Do ya have anything to show for the years of questions?

c3hamby: That's the way I look at it.

He came through for the Truth movement in a MAJOR way with the 2001 NPC conference, and no one else in Ufology has come anywhere even remotely close to such an accomplishment.

And if he succeeds with this impending major Contact event that he spoke of, he will have come through for us AGAIN.

I wonder how many times he'll have to succeed and lead the way for us before people accept that he knows what he's doing and he's speaking the truth?

Just let me say; I wasn't going to bother with this thread anymore - but I talked to Skunk and worked things out (I hope?). Since I am directly referenced; will will reply.

Originally posted by millerman
In Defense Of Dr. Greer

kroms33 and others attacking Greer:

If we can first accept the notion that as the founder of CSETI, Greer and his people have been out there at the forefront making real contact with ETs for the past 15 or 20 years.... that pretty much makes him an expert, if not THE expert, on the ET reality.

I am sorry, but I have been researching UFOs on and off for about the same time period - that doesn't make me an expert in any way shape of form.
ETs may be real - I believe they are. If Greer is claiming to be in contact with the ETs - he is really making a mockery out of the entire disclosure issue. Now, his only saving grace will be a G-8 Government coming forward.
(BTW - please people stop quoting Greer's mishap - its G-8, not G-7)

What you have to understand is that when he talks about this nexus where all matter, energy and consciousness are unified and One.... to the ET races, that isn't "religion" or "spirituality" or "New Age", it is a scientific FACT for them, and a lot of their technology is even based on that principle. According to Greer, you cannot even develop the technology to achieve interstellar travel without a thorough understanding and mastery of that principle.

Ok, I don't want to sound harsh or even like I am attacking anyone - so don't take this personally please. I am very sorry to say, that the technology to traverse the stars is being worked on in labs all across the world. With zero-point technology (supported by string theory quantum physics) - within the next 100 years we will have gravity manipulation - enabling us to theoretically circumvent the laws of Einsteinium physics. It has nothing to do with what you believe spiritually - it would be a matter of scientific fact. So, Greer, in all his infinite wisdom might not understand the very basic principles involved with current technological breakthroughs.

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Ok, I am not sure why you would want to state something that unsubstantiated in a debate about Greer's credibility - it rather does damage it more. What angers researchers - is the fact that all this damage is putting the topic of UFOs back into the tabloids and not on a scientific table for analysis. He could have waited until after 'contact' or 'disclosure' had been established to come forward. Perhaps then, people would have had a general understanding and 'awareness' of what he speaks of... but coming forward before any tangible proof has been placed into public scrutiny: thats suicidal for your campaign to get accredited.

Granted it seems too bizarre to be believable for a lot of people, but then again, a radio or television set would seem like "Magic" or "Witchcraft" to someone say from the Medieval age with no understanding of electromagnetic signals or the various means of transmitting them.....

I understand that - everyone does - what we (researchers) are angry about is that Greer came forward with all this mumbo-jumbo spirituality and discredited the disclosure project. Tell me: why would congress even acknowledge his pleas? They wouldn't, and everyone here knows it.

Levitation and anti-gravity? Also a scientific reality with already existing proof-of-principle technologies....

Now when he starts talking about these things that he sees when he meditates, like Earth being female and Mars being male and another planet being "gay" - okay that is kooky, I will give you that. But on the other hand, many of our absolute greatest scientists and inventors and thinkers were also quite "kooky" and eccentric - Einstein and Tesla most certainly were. You have to allow people a little bit of room to be creatively weird and artistic and have weird ideas - or we would never make any progress as a civilization!

Sorry, not in our current society's scientific standards we do not have to allow any room. And that is what I am trying to tell everyone supporting him: HE just destroyed any credibility - and destroyed all the witness credibility along with his 'beliefs'.
OK, lets say you are an alien from Zeta right? You come to OUR solar system - but you have your own right? Ok, so WHY would you need to gender specify the planets that orbit Sol - if your own race (zeta - greys) are "gender neutral" ? (according to ufo folklore).


From all Western mythological standpoints - Venus would be the female... not earth.

Give him and his people a chance! Has anybody else on this earth come forward with an army of 400 highly credible whistleblowers......?

I have given him as many chances as necessary. I have written him, tried to talk to him - nothing. Someone stated that he kind of is "like a rock star", I have to agree. He wants your money.

For disclosure - come out with the evidence - present it to a scientific committee; get the people of the USA and the world to back your effort - pressure world governments to come clean, and when they do - then go all 'kooky' with spirituality. Otherwise, your just another "UFO kook" to the public and government officials.

I don't mean any offense to anybody - but with our current government structure: how can ANYONE take him seriously?

Watch: if he does even get close to disclosure - all of this will be used against him... he will be ripped apart limb from limb - made to look like a new age cultist - perhaps even as far as going to say he is a 'terrorist' and the public will scorn him - his ufology career will be ruined.

Real UFO researchers who want REAL disclosure - rely on factual based documentation - not spirituality or 'teachings' of a guru.

Originally posted by millerman
c3hamby: That's the way I look at it.

He came through for the Truth movement in a MAJOR way with the 2001 NPC conference, and no one else in Ufology has come anywhere even remotely close to such an accomplishment.

And if he succeeds with this impending major Contact event that he spoke of, he will have come through for us AGAIN.

I wonder how many times he'll have to succeed and lead the way for us before people accept that he knows what he's doing and he's speaking the truth?

Notice the 'if': IF means: Supposing; or granting of that... a supposition; uncertain possibility: The future is full of ifs.

In a court of law - you have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to win a case. WHILE I believe that Greer HAS the evidence - 450 + witnesses plus FOIA documents that back many of their claims: I think he is discrediting them at the same time by relinquishing rubbish (like a remote viewing alien helm, and homosexual planetary bodies...).

IF you had all this evidence in a court of law, and you were called to testify - and you started talking about garbage that the judge and jury couldn't associate with reality - YOU would lose the case.

I think Greer has done a lot for disclosure - but unfortunately nowadays his teachings has set everything back.

I'd say he hasn't failed. He would've failed if he hadn't done anything at all. If he was unable to accomplish anything else than what he's done so far I can't imagine calling anything he has done a failure.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but 2001 Disclosure Event was a success.

Furthermore, he has taken ufology out of the hands of the freaks and into the geeks, as far as the public is concerned. I don't even like the word ufology, I prefer exopolitics, because that's what it's becoming and probably already is.

Did you ever see 'One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest'?

Jack Nicholson figured out that if he could lift the heavy sink and throw it out the window he could escape.

Everybody laughed at him, but he angrily said, 'At least I tried'.

Now, what is the last scene of the movie? The Indian picks up the impossible to lift sink and throws it out the window and escapes.


Jack Nicholson's character was a visionary, Dr Greer is a visionary, but not many visionaries are respected in their own time.

I will assert one thing that attributes to his 'you either love him or hate him'. He is either completely nuts and off the wall, or he is a pretty incredible person. I don't think there is much middle of the road with him.

I choose to believe the latter.

Just opinions, with no facts to support you again.
Do you see the Prime Minister accepting private meeting with any individuals asking for it?
They are too busy to deal with Jo Blo that blinded by his preconceptions.
I would do exactly the same when someone like you came to me.
They are passed the point where they need to provide proofs. If you haven't done your homeworks, then it's your darn fault, not ours.
If you ask questions that were already answered in the past, well of course you won't be received with open arms.

I'm passed the point to discredit the man's work just because there is a few things I don't quite understand yet, or because it's out of my belief system.
What matters is that we seek for truth. Yeah, there is quite a lot of weird stuff in all this, but I have a set goal to understand everything related to this, even if it means putting aside some of my misconceptions and cultural conditionning.

I have discovered that putting aside that conditionning lead me to discover a sea of great phenomena. For that, I thank Steven Greer and his team.

Originally posted by tock
Just opinions, with no facts to support you again.

Ok, so you actually think any of Greer's 'opinions' on spirituality have a factual basis behind them? No, they don't.

My statements are not OPINIONS - since NO GOVERNMENT has met with Greer. My statements remain FACTS until the day this happens.

Do you see the Prime Minister accepting private meeting with any individuals asking for it?

No, I don't - but if someone with supposed congressional support and witnesses numbering in the hundreds had a press conference to draw public awareness into the spectrum - then yes, I think a prime minister or president would consider the matter... but not if the person/persons involved are not the norm of that societies 'belief' structure... unfortunately that is not opinion or speculation - its just the way it is.

They are too busy to deal with Jo Blo that blinded by his preconceptions.
I would do exactly the same when someone like you came to me.
They are passed the point where they need to provide proofs. If you haven't done your homeworks, then it's your darn fault, not ours.
If you ask questions that were already answered in the past, well of course you won't be received with open arms.

The problem is I have done my homework - for you to 'assume' I have not would be consistent with you knowing who I am - and what I have studied.
The problem with you - your supporting Greer without any plausible proof of any of his claims. The only thing that he has going for him is the 450 + witnesses. Other then that - his 'guru spirituality alien brother" theme has discredited Ufology. For you to deny that - well, it speaks for itself.
Name one spiritualist claim that Greer has made that is truth and can be proven. I speak of the 'remote viewing' helmet, or his claims of contact with these beings. Show the world the proof - other then that; all you have is some wild claims and a true disinformational campaign to discredit all the witnesses if confronted in a scientific forum.

I'm passed the point to discredit the man's work just because there is a few things I don't quite understand yet, or because it's out of my belief system.
What matters is that we seek for truth. Yeah, there is quite a lot of weird stuff in all this, but I have a set goal to understand everything related to this, even if it means putting aside some of my misconceptions and cultural conditionning.

What a lot of you who are not involved in the research or Ufology do not understand is this: He has split the community, instead of uniting it. He has put himself into a position so that the scientific community of researchers has abandoned him. Most researchers want this to be a scientific exploration; while the minority are the 'ufo spiritualists'. Unfortunately - it is the spiritualists who make the cover of Tabloid papers - not the true cases of evidence recorded by valid research.
You keep siting me for my 'opinion' - but I say that you have not given one shred of an ounce of factual basis in where people like myself and others can go off of. My 'opinions' are based on scenarios of REALITY.
The USA is a Christian based society (founded on Christianity). The minority of UFO spiritualists are looked down upon because of the conservative nature of both the republican and democratic parties, which means Greer has a snowballs chance in hell of getting any type of congressional support or hearing. THAT is a FACT... deny it all you will and state that it is my opinion - but as stated: it is FACTUAL.

I have discovered that putting aside that conditionning lead me to discover a sea of great phenomena. For that, I thank Steven Greer and his team.

there is nothing wrong with that. I thank Greer myself, he DID open this up for the public to debate - but what is its status NOW?
Ask someone on the street if they have ever heard of the Disclosure Project - maybe one out of one-hundred have... and that is a liberal estimate.''

Greer had the power to unleash hell upon the government about UFOs - he chose to go a spiritual route... go figure.

Originalyl posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman

If we can first accept the notion that as the founder of CSETI, Greer and his people have been out there at the forefront making real contact with ETs for the past 15 or 20 years.... that pretty much makes him an expert, if not THE expert, on the ET reality.

I am sorry, but I have been researching UFOs on and off for about the same time period - that doesn't make me an expert in any way shape of form.

Okay good but have you researched what exactly it is that CSETI does? They do things like going to places where there are waves of UFO sightings occuring, and they proactively make contact with the crafts. And Greer has allegedly been doing this for at least 15 years. That is why I said he is THE expert....

ETs may be real - I believe they are. If Greer is claiming to be in contact with the ETs - he is really making a mockery out of the entire disclosure issue.

How so? If "they" WON'T LET HIM put his evidence on live TV...?

Ok, I don't want to sound harsh or even like I am attacking anyone - so don't take this personally please. I am very sorry to say, that the technology to traverse the stars is being worked on in labs all across the world. With zero-point technology (supported by string theory quantum physics) - within the next 100 years we will have gravity manipulation - enabling us to theoretically circumvent the laws of Einsteinium physics. It has nothing to do with what you believe spiritually - it would be a matter of scientific fact. So, Greer, in all his infinite wisdom might not understand the very basic principles involved with current technological breakthroughs.

Well what I was trying to say is, when you get up to that level, what you discover is that the science BECOMES spiritual. You discover that all matter, energy and consciousness are One, in a non-local, non-linear, and sort of Holographic way (the Whole is in every Part), and that you can even develop proof-of-principle technologies like a Remote Viewing helmet. Once you get to that level, there's no longer a need for a false dichotomy of Science vs Religion/Spirituality/Mysticism.

Now, *I* don't know that for a FACT yet, but I understand the concept, and I'm trying to explain where Dr. Greer is coming from so that people can understand it. According to him, the ETs already know this, already have all the technology that makes use of that principle (the technology for travelling through "Hyperspace" or "Sub-space" uses it), and they're just waiting for us to sort of "wake up" and get it.

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Ok, I am not sure why you would want to state something that unsubstantiated in a debate about Greer's credibility - it rather does damage it more. What angers researchers - is the fact that all this damage is putting the topic of UFOs back into the tabloids and not on a scientific table for analysis.

Well, I think at first Greer was more cautious about revealing things like this, because he knew it's too far "out there" for most people to handle. But eventually he decided that, because of the looming energy crisis and environmental collapse and things like that, there just isn't that much time left. We don't HAVE say 50 or 100 more years left to wait for the scientific community to come to this realization on their own. So he decided to write "Hidden Truth Forbidden Knowledge" and start openly talking about all these things, likely knowing that there would be those who would simply think he's a nut. But he felt it urgent to speed up the process of getting the truth out.....

He could have waited until after 'contact' or 'disclosure' had been established to come forward.

Well, 'contact' HAS been established. Greer and CSETI have been doing it for 15 years (or so they claim since I haven't been to a training), and it is rumored that elements of the secret government have had official contact as well, perhaps even made some treaties and agreements with certain ET races.

Perhaps then, people would have had a general understanding and 'awareness' of what he speaks of... but coming forward before any tangible proof has been placed into public scrutiny: thats suicidal for your campaign to get accredited.

But what do you do when the proof exists, you KNOW it exists, but it is very heavily guarded by the powers-that-be in the secret government and there's a complete mainstream media blackout on it? Do you just sit and wait for something to change.... or do you go ahead and start trying to educate people anyway?

I understand that - everyone does - what we (researchers) are angry about is that Greer came forward with all this mumbo-jumbo spirituality and discredited the disclosure project. Tell me: why would congress even acknowledge his pleas? They wouldn't, and everyone here knows it.

Well hang on - since when do you speak for ALL researchers or "everyone here"?

As for congress, Greer says that he has briefed lots of them on this, and it's not that they don't believe him; it's that they are terrified of this rogue group that's sitting on the technologies. And you would be too, if you knew that there was someone out there with one of these directed energy weapons who could push a button and you and your whole family would instantly fall over dead....

(Have you read Hidden Truth Forbidden Knowledge BTW? He explains all these exact same things in that book.............)

But on the other hand, many of our absolute greatest scientists and inventors and thinkers were also quite "kooky" and eccentric - Einstein and Tesla most certainly were. You have to allow people a little bit of room to be creatively weird and artistic and have weird ideas - or we would never make any progress as a civilization!

Sorry, not in our current society's scientific standards we do not have to allow any room. And that is what I am trying to tell everyone supporting him: HE just destroyed any credibility - and destroyed all the witness credibility along with his 'beliefs'.

Says YOU. But again, when you make statements like "Greer has destroyed his credibility, and also that of the witnesses", you are speaking for a LOT more people than just yourself.... Please, let people decide for themselves if he is credible or not!

Give him and his people a chance! Has anybody else on this earth come forward with an army of 400 highly credible whistleblowers......?

I have given him as many chances as necessary. I have written him, tried to talk to him - nothing. Someone stated that he kind of is "like a rock star", I have to agree. He wants your money.

Well, sure you've tried to write him, tried to talk to him - but don't you think THOUSANDS of others probably have too? Maybe he just doesn't have the time to get back to you, considering how busy he is?

For disclosure - come out with the evidence - present it to a scientific committee; get the people of the USA and the world to back your effort - pressure world governments to come clean, and when they do - then go all 'kooky' with spirituality. Otherwise, your just another "UFO kook" to the public and government officials.

Well, gee whiz, what do you think he's been doing for the past 15 years or so?

THAT IS A BIG PART OF WHAT HE DOES.

Since 1993 he has been travelling all around the world meeting with people, briefing people in governments and militaries and intelligence communities, scientists, lawyers, businessmen....

See, it's things like this that make me wonder, you SAY you've been doing the research, you SAY you've been following his work closely, reading his books and going over his online material - and yet you don't seem to be aware of even the most basic facts of his life and his work!

Have you even read "Hidden Truth"? You SAY you have, and yet here I am having to re-explain all the same things that he ALREADY explains in the book!

You really should go read it, even if you do nothing but just laugh at it or think he's a nut. It's quite a neat read, and it explains ALL this stuff about how the powers-that-be in the shadow government keep THWARTING PEOPLE'S EFFORTS to get these secrets out.... a whole lot of these things really will make a lot more sense to you after you read it....

In a court of law - you have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to win a case. WHILE I believe that Greer HAS the evidence - 450 + witnesses plus FOIA documents that back many of their claims: I think he is discrediting them at the same time by relinquishing rubbish (like a remote viewing alien helm, and homosexual planetary bodies...).

IF you had all this evidence in a court of law, and you were called to testify - and you started talking about garbage that the judge and jury couldn't associate with reality - YOU would lose the case.

Fine, but the current world stage is absolutely nothing even remotely close to resembling a legitimate court of law........ and that's the WHOLE POINT. None of this will make much sense until you understand about the existence of the shadow government, what their motives and agendas are and how they operate, the kinds of black technologies they are sitting on and ACTIVELY USE on people....

And before you say "Ha! 'Shadow Government', more rubbish", DO THE RESEARCH. Many reputable public figures have spoken out about them, including two former US Presidents (Eisenhower and JFK), Senator Inouye, Aaron Russo.... MANY of the Disclosure Project witnesses.... there is a large body of evidence that supports what Greer says about them.

And I like how Greer can't even tell a little joke about a 'female' planet, a 'male' planet and a 'gay' planet in one of his seminars without people jumping all over him..... sheesh let's all relax and get a sense of humor!

Originally posted by millerman

Okay good but have you researched what exactly it is that CSETI does? They do things like going to places where there are waves of UFO sightings occuring, and they proactively make contact with the crafts. And Greer has allegedly been doing this for at least 15 years. That is why I said he is THE expert....

Of course I know what CSETI does - why do you think I am so angry at Greer for going that route? All he is doing is turning Ufology into a cult for new age spirituality - instead of scientific factual based research.
Luckily - you threw in the word 'allegedly'

ETs may be real - I believe they are. If Greer is claiming to be in contact with the ETs - he is really making a mockery out of the entire disclosure issue.

How so? If "they" WON'T LET HIM put his evidence on live TV...?

ok, lets take the alleged conspiracy route for a second. Greer could easily put this out to the public by many means. There's that guy from Mexico's 60 minutes who would do it in a heat beat - then theres George Knap from Vegas that would do it any way he could. Even if people were killed, there would be some way to get the truth to the masses.
Where there is a will - there is a way.
I believe there is a cover up in place - and perhaps it is going to take extraordinary tactics to release this information - that is what Greer seemed to be about when he first started - not some new age guru doctor from the backwoods...

Well what I was trying to say is, when you get up to that level, what you discover is that the science BECOMES spiritual. You discover that all matter, energy and consciousness are One, in a non-local, non-linear, and sort of Holographic way (the Whole is in every Part), and that you can even develop proof-of-principle technologies like a Remote Viewing helmet. Once you get to that level, there's no longer a need for a false dichotomy of Science vs Religion/Spirituality/Mysticism.

Right, I do understand where you are coming from - but with the earths majority of civilizations relying on religious belief - and set in their cultural and societal boundaries - doing what Greer has will NOT exemplify his 'research' or ideas.

Now, *I* don't know that for a FACT yet, but I understand the concept, and I'm trying to explain where Dr. Greer is coming from so that people can understand it. According to him, the ETs already know this, already have all the technology that makes use of that principle (the technology for travelling through "Hyperspace" or "Sub-space" uses it), and they're just waiting for us to sort of "wake up" and get it.

Right, but these radical claims he makes - they sell lots of tickets and books, no? Especially to people who are new to the genre of this topic. No one knows where to start because its all mixed together.
And - since there is a cover up in place - why would the ETs wait for us to wake up and 'get it' if we theoretically already have it?

In other words, the ETs have proof-of-principle technologies which he has SEEN, they have things like for example a Remote Viewing helmet which you can put on and immediately be able to see any place and time in the universe that you want. (And actually he says that our own secret government already has these too!)

Those are opinions - theoretical suggestions, and perhaps wild fictional claims. If you are a Doctor - you study science, so you at least know basic scientific theory. Do you think Einstein or Newton - or even Hawkings would come forward and say "Hey, you know - I have a theory about this and that" with no scientific or hard evidence to support their claims - its just... wacky.

Well, 'contact' HAS been established. Greer and CSETI have been doing it for 15 years (or so they claim since I haven't been to a training)

Here is where I have to swing the gavel and pound it down with a loud resounding "thud"
You have unobstructed evidence that Greer and CSETI has had contact with aliens? Then you state that 'so they claim'. Don't you want to know this is all for real - or don't you want to find out that you are being 'had' ?
I want total undeniable conformation. I won't believe someone that I do not know if they tell me 'hey... trust me."
No, your making money off of what the government is keeping from the people.
Greer is just as bad as they are - yes, I said it. If anything he says is even remotely true - then how dare he discredit himself and the others involved.

But what do you do when the proof exists, you KNOW it exists, but it is very heavily guarded by the powers-that-be in the secret government and there's a complete mainstream media blackout on it? Do you just sit and wait for something to change.... or do you go ahead and start trying to educate people anyway?

you keep your mouth shut until you have the facts to back you claims so the government can't take that away from you and call you a nut job. You leak it through to the public as best as you can. You don't think Mr. Greer is a millionaire by now? He could get the support he needs rapidly - if he was on the 'up and up'

Well hang on - since when do you speak for ALL researchers or "everyone here"?

No, I don't speak to the spiritual questing researchers - but to the ones that are going about this scientifically and realizing the facts instead of taking someones 'word' for it. Any person researching this field that is doing it on a scientific level would back me - I would hope.

As for congress, Greer says that he has briefed lots of them on this, and it's not that they don't believe him; it's that they are terrified of this rogue group that's sitting on the technologies.

(Have you read Hidden Truth Forbidden Knowledge BTW? He explains all these exact same things in that book.............)

I can say that I have been to the moon and back - why should you believe me? I am sure you wouldn't. He can say he has briefed the Pope and whomever he cares to name - I have never seen any coverage of the event.
As for his book - I read part of it, but never finished it... why? I got disappointed in the direction it was taking. IF he wanted disclosure - he wouldn't have gone spiritual on us al

[edit on 3/15/2007 by kroms33]

[edit on 3/15/2007 by kroms33]

Originally posted by kroms33
My statements are not OPINIONS - since NO GOVERNMENT has met with Greer. My statements remain FACTS until the day this happens.

NO GOVERNMENT has met with Greer? And you know that.... how?

Again, what is it you think he's been doing for the past 15 years?

He has met with MANY people in various governments, militaries, intelligence communities..... and you would know that if you had really done the research. I mean, how else do you think he found all these 400+ MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT witnesses?

No, I don't - but if someone with supposed congressional support and witnesses numbering in the hundreds had a press conference to draw public awareness into the spectrum - then yes, I think a prime minister or president would consider the matter...

Well, if you had read the book, you would know that he did try to reach President Clinton, but Clinton was too afraid of the rogue group to do anything.... Bush? Yeah right, quite obviously on the NWO/warmongering side....

Let's see, maybe not the prime minister of Canada but the Honorable Paul Hellyer, former Canadian Minister of Defense, has stepped forward and he is now demanding the release of these technologies....

And Greer is now talking about a G8 country planning a major open contact event with him.... but oh no, NO GOVERNMENT has met with him........ ;-)

The problem is I have done my homework - for you to 'assume' I have not would be consistent with you knowing who I am - and what I have studied.

Well, the problem is, you quite clearly have NOT read Greer's latest book, "Hidden Truth....", because here I am having to re-explain to you all the same things that he already explains in that book....

And if you are claiming to be some prominent UFO researcher - then who are you?

The problem with you - your supporting Greer without any plausible proof of any of his claims. The only thing that he has going for him is the 450 + witnesses. Other then that - his 'guru spirituality alien brother" theme has discredited Ufology. For you to deny that - well, it speaks for itself.

Again making authoritative statements and claiming to speak for all of Ufology and for the general public.... let's let people decide for themselves if he is credible or if he has discredited anyone!

Name one spiritualist claim that Greer has made that is truth and can be proven. I speak of the 'remote viewing' helmet, or his claims of contact with these beings. Show the world the proof - other then that; all you have is some wild claims and a true disinformational campaign to discredit all the witnesses if confronted in a scientific forum.

Unless, as they claim, the real tangible proof, like the working proof-of-principle technologies, are heavily guarded by elements of the shadow government.... because they don't want the truth to come out!

We need to get past this whole "PROOF PROOF PROOF, SHOW ME THE PROOF" argument. The entire point of all this, is that there are some very wealthy and powerful cartels that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo of fossil fuels, and they are ACTIVELY WITHHOLDING the proof!

Why else do you think these inventors keep popping up, have been popping up for at least 100 years, but keep getting utterly squashed? (research Nikola Tesla, Hans Coler, and a boatload of others)