How prevalent are delusional posters in this forum?

Originally posted by yeti101
jbondo, nice post

i also worry about the last group (hale-bopps') but i think the number 2s who try to lead or feed them knowingly false information are the most dangerous.

now i know ats would pride itself on having freedom of speech and let people make up their own mind but i think letting the number 2s run amok with no guidance is giving them a platform to recruit and potentialy abuse the number 8s. Judging by some of the posts on here theres quite a few kids who are quite frankly more gullable.

i really think ats admins should be more resposible and create a new section for these guys. Maybe a "far out theories" section or something.

If this goes unchecked i can see something tragic happening.



[edit on 13-2-2007 by yeti101]

I missed your post before, but I see we are of the same thinking. I give credit to ATS for how much they DO moderate things here, and I know how tough it has to be to do that alone much less start separating these things. But IMO for ATS to move to the next level, it simply must be done.

Togetic,

Those 2 groups are very similar and you are very perceptive to see it. There could be another group that actually floats between the two but I didn't want to get too hair splitting. To name one or two differences are that the debunkers have that craving to expose and the independent doesn't. An independent is much more likely to not expose something just to see where it goes while a debunker makes it clear when they are looking to uncover something. An independent seldom takes a side as they are more interested in absorbing information while a debunker can seldom keep from hopping off the fence.

Yeti, I had a tough time with that choice. Who is more dangerous? While I can agree that initially the #2 is the obvious choice, there comes a time when they can step back and watch things develop. Once a #2 builds a large enough following they can actually completely disappear and know that the #8's will carry on the cause. They do have to come back periodically to refuel the 8's and tap the steering wheel a bit but by this time they have lieutenants in place that can pick up strays to reinforce the group. With such a large contingent of followers it's much easier to convince the lost just by sheer numbers in agreement. It’s like that old experiment where you tell a group to all defend a stance and then you bring in a subject to see if they will reciprocate. Most times they go along with the group. It is most often the group that does the damage.

Still though, I have to repeat that it is a tough call.

Originally posted by lagos


So my question is:

With all due respect, what percent of post(er)s, in you opinion, are delusional in this forum or may be suffering from varying degrees of reality-distorting mental illness?

only because the 'practical' world has forced me to think this way,
i'd say it could not be Zero %,

so, my guess is .05 %,

imho, persons that start threads have no intention of posting falsehoods or lies...with an intention of deluding the reader.

i also see it as 'different perspectives' rather than insanity or being out of touch with ordinary reality. Without these far-out notions or thoughts then novel ideas wouldn't help bring about progress...
i'd rather listen to a wack-o than suffer through a mind-numbing monologue by Kissinger

on the other hand, i think the term 'sheeple' is a way of deeming some of the masses as deluded people

Here is my opinion on this matter:

I would consider a delusion, something that one believes or has faith in, but is not a fact nor known to be true. With that said, most of the topics covered here at ATS, such as religion or the UFO phenomenon (UNIDENTIFIED) have so many probable sources that without further information or proof, there is the deniable plausibility to a number of sources (natural, human, unknown, etc). So who is anyone to say what is or isn't right, without further research leading to a factual or reasonable conclusion.
So keep that in mind when you think of 'delusion' and realize that even a rough estimate at a number is a variable statistic, based on what YOUR beliefs are.

I think you are also asking what percentage of posters may have a 'mental illness". I will not deny that there are serious mental illnesses, however our scapegoat society has made this far too much of an 'excuse'. One thing I hate is that drug companies and the medical community in general seem to have pushed the idea into many people that there is something wrong with the majority of all of us, and that the quick-fix answer comes in the form of a pill or expensive counseling. Show me ONE PERSON in this world who has not experienced some form of extreme mental anguish or despair, leading to feeling or believing that they are mentally ill during times in there life; and I would be greatly surprised, albeit statistically possible. Once again, a variable, fluctuating percentage.

A wise woman once told me in a time when I was on the verge of giving up and presumed I had mental illness:

"You are not alone, everyone feels this way sometimes. No matter where you are on the scale of 'normality' right now, you will slide all over for the rest of your life. There is no good without bad, so learn to enjoy the ride and find your comfort zone"

So would I be correct in saying that your post is delusional???

Am I write? Or am I rong?

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Write And Rong]

Originally posted by Celtibero
The problem with UFO/alien forums like this one is that there are roughly three groups:

Group A - Believes the UFO phenomenom exists, but doesn't know its origin, whether natural/metheorological, human, black-op, alien, dimensional, etc. They usualy like to study the evidence with a skeptical point of view.

Group B- Believes the UFO is extraterrestrial in its origin. They want to discuss the types and intentions of the supposed alien beings, or the abduction cases, government implication.

Group C- Believes to be in direct contact with ET beings. They like to discuss philosophical/new age questions, mainly about information "channelled" by ET beings through meditation or direct contact.

Nobody is right or wrong, because the forum is named "Aliens & UFO's", so all of them are in their right to post their thoughts. The problem is that there's a vast distance between Group A and Group C. No wonder the first consider the others delusional, while the others consider the first debunkers. There's plenty of space to have bitter disagreements.

To tell you the truth, I have been reading about UFO's for the last 20 years, mainly books by serious researchers. I've been visiting this forum during one year, and it has swithched my views almost completely. I was a very strong believer (Group A-B), but now I realize that there's little, little truth in this field, and people is willing to believe anything. Afther 20 years studing the subject, I now know exactly the same as I knew when I started: nothing.

what about group D people who have seen a UFO etc I belong to this group and up to now have never mentioned it for fear of being shoved in your disillusionment category, I now know I was right to keep quiet. Ever since my experiences I have searched the web for answers or ideas to try to figure out what I saw (on three seperate occasions, years apart ) and I'v always thought that ATS is the best web site for posible answers

how about this quote.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

i think everyone is a little strange to everyone else.
as the above quote says everyone has their on reality not sure anything can be done to change that.

but there are always a few that are a bit more off than the rest of us or am i the one thats more off than the rest of you

Originally posted by yeti101


i really think ats admins should be more resposible and create a new section for these guys. Maybe a "far out theories" section or something.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by yeti101]

That would be Skunk Works.

Seems to me those who are claiming others here may be delusional are the same group who have done little to none in terms of UFO/EBE research themselves.

A long while ago I started with one thought.. something's going on and may have been for a long while. While trying to respect most opinions I have some trouble excepting this one, here on this thread.

Most of the time such threads are written due to not, ignorance, but a severe lack of knowledge in this particular forum or the basis of it's threads.

Dallas

Originally posted by avro
what about group D people who have seen a UFO etc

Well, following your description, I would put you in Group A: believes in UFO's and wants to find a rational explanation of its origin/nature.

ATS is a fantastic forum, but can also make you a skeptic. I mean, how many threads about shopping in galactic malls or praying to reptilians will one endure before dropping the entire field as a "fantasy" wonderland. No wonder Jacques Vallee is not active anymore in the UFO arena.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Celtibero]

That would be Skunk Works.

ah ,i see - it would be nice if the relevant material was moved from this forum to there.

Originally posted by MiahX
The majority of intelligent people visiting ATS are either lurkers or post less often.

Yes, spot on Sir.

It seems to be forgotten that the public view these boards as well. Their views are not recorded but are as relevant.

I too was a "lurker" for quite some time before joining ATS. I joined so I could have a voice but to be honest I feel if you go against the conspiracy theorists the debate is not always, shall we say constructive. Go against 911 CT'ers and you are a fool or mentally inferior. I have seen some of the posts there. Someone brings up one little point and they are attacked with page after page of pretty graphics, photos and reports but the point raised is still unanswered. I gave up there, let them have their little bit of virtual reality. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't attack this post with loads of pictures

I have noticed, on occasion that some of the "old timers" think it is "their" ATS and noobies are a bit of a pest. I can remember one thread that said that all 911 debunk topics should be closed and the authors banned!! It then went on to slag off no all noobies.

So in preventing debate they have become an equivalence of the State and World Order that they hate!!

Regarding lurkers, I am not always logged on when I visit ATS. It is strange but I do view the posts differently when I am not logged on

Originally posted by mikesingh

Originally posted by lagos

So my question is:

With all due respect, what percent of post(er)s, in you opinion, are delusional in this forum or may be suffering from varying degrees of reality-distorting mental illness?

OK, lagos. Suppose I tell you that everybody on this site is a delusional crackpot (Except me!), what are you gonna do about it? Try and shut this site down?

Relax man. Get a glass of beer and enjoy the ride!!

Cheers!!

As a newer member, I am just trying to get a heads-up on qualifying the information that is contained in the forum.

Simple as that -I'm just looking for the truth.

I will keep an open mind, try not to judge people, and not presume to know what I can't know for sure.

I'm not sure what percentage of posters are "delusional," but it seems like the only threads on this site that get a lot of attention are the threads that make the most outrageous and unverifiable claims. And now we're getting a huge increase in the number of "This picture of a blurry speck and/or blob of light is concrete proof of extraterrestrial visitation" threads. So sad...

Just join my Royal76 group, we meet every couple of years in Europe to discuss ways to control the world.

This should show you that in a 100% spectrum, there will always be a % that goes crazy, or is slightly delusional.

For really crazy theories go to Skunk works.

Simple as that -I'm just looking for the truth.

Truth...you want the truth...YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH...Son we live in a world that has walls, walls that need defending. Are you going to stand on that wall........

OOps like Wolverine... Intrepid said. SKUNK WORKS





[edit on 13-2-2007 by Royal76]

Since this is turning quickly into a 'Bash ATS' thread, I think it belongs in BQ&B, where it will get the attention that it deserves.

Amazing how some seem to relish being negative about this site.

Originally posted by masqua
Since this is turning quickly into a 'Bash ATS' thread, I think it belongs in BQ&B, where it will get the attention that it deserves.

Amazing how some seem to relish being negative about this site.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. We're all here, I hope, because we enjoy chit chatting about these subjects, and yes, everyone should be allowed to participate.

But the difficulty is, and I think many would agree, that there are those of us interested in a higher level of discourse. I for example prefer to talk about factual scenarios and consider the political ramifications of ufology. But others prefer to come here to talk about their personal beliefs and feelings on the topic. That's all well and good, but I think the roused rabble in here desires that the two groups be separate.

It's nothing against them or the board, they're just not talking about anything we're interested in, and sifting through the clutter gets frustrating at times.

Touring Test

100% of those who don't share my world view are delusional.

But since most of them are Zeta Reticuloids or cryptids, they probably don't count.

One thing I've come to appreciate in my time on ATS is how utterly arbitrary and specious the concept of "objective reality" actually is.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that those who think there is such a thing -- or that they are capable of perceiving it -- are deluding themselves by thinking so.

Any conceptual framework derived from incomplete data will necessarily be subject to some degree of error. The less data, the greater the error.

What percentage of reality does any of us actually grasp? Though I cannot know myself, what little I do know suggests that even the most learned person alive probably knows only an infinitesimally small percentage of All There Is To Know.

Since no one here (except those who delusively believe they know everything) actually knows All There Is To Know -- or even a minute fraction of it, or heck, even begins to comprehend just how much we don't know -- we're all ultimately delusional to think ourselves even capable of having some sort of rational "world view".

However, in fairness to ATS, that also applies to non-members as well.

Then again, 74.8% of all statistics are made up, and I'm admittedly delusional myself based on my own definition, so Your Mileage May Vary.





[edit on 2/13/2007 by Majic]

I'm quite frustrated by some of the comments made here towards the ATS community. Comments directed at "senior" members or those who post frequently are certainly uncalled for. The notion that the upper echelon are those who lurk, or rarely post is highly uncalled for. I mean, look at the approach.

If you register with Above Top Secret, and the extent of your browsing is the 9/11 Forum, UFO's & Paranormal, or any other Forum that is sure to garner some "Out There" posts, then you may begin to see a trend. But it is in your own approach that the flaw exists, not ATS. Go over to Above Politics and look into some Social Issues, or some Politics that pertain to specific countries. Try Below Top Secret and look into some Current US News Discussion or other various "Chit Chat" subjects. The level of discussion on this board is second to none. Anyone who actually takes ten minutes to look into each forum, you would see this.

We have FSME's (Forum Subject Matter Expert's) that are highly educated in their field. Those that are overt critics of the site, were you aware of that? Did you take a minute to see what exactly was being offered before you decided to talk negative of the site, and it's members?

Yes, the 9/11 Forum and the UFO Forum has a few posts and a few regular members that may post some far fetched ideas. But if your intent is to take these few posts and paint the rest of the site, members, and forums, then maybe your not in much of a position to have an opinion on the matter. At least weigh all the facts before criticizing.

Originally posted by andy1033
its just that people like the thread starter use the term theory as well, to try to question the validity of the claim, does not make the conspiracy wrong, it just shows ignorance on that persons part.

[edit on 2/13/2007 by andy1033]

^^^ ??? people like me ???

Again, thanks to everyone for posting their opinions on the matter. Definitely expanded my perspective on the matter.

This thread was specifically referring to the Aliens and UFO's Forum before it was moved so I'm sure it will take on a new direction now.

Thanks to all involved for your insight.

[edit on 2/13/2007 by lagos]

I'm disappointed to see this thread moved, it was not 'ATS bashing' by any stretch of the imagination. What's wrong letting the mods know that their readers have ideas to make the place better?

Censorship IMO.