Did Jesus Exist -- The Probing Mind

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Give me a break, you're gonna trust radiocarbon dating?

I saw scientist do a test on an orange peel that had just been peeled off, and it dated like to 5000 years ago or something like that.

of course a brand new orange peel won't work with radiocarbon dating
you need to learn to use the proper method to date certain things
radiocarbon dating is good for things that are thousands of years old

Don't ask me to show you, cause I saw it on TV.

well, it was obviously a propoganda program

You have still not told me who "they" is, the people who "confirmed" your supposed evidence.

so now i'm going to actually look through decades of research to get the names of every single person who has brought forth evidence that supports the existence of julius caesar?
there is a buttload
this is the type of thing that i'd actually have to go to a library and look through archives and actually host the papers
waaaay too much work

You're right I can never prove Jesus or God exist 100%, but logic points in the direction that they do, just as you might say logic points to Julius Caeser existing.

well, i don't see any logic pointing towards the existence of jesus, even as a historical figure

care to share any of it?

Let me ask you a question Madness, Can you prove anything in History is true?

And I'm not talking about recent stuff, i'm talking 2000+ years?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Give me a break, you're gonna trust radiocarbon dating?

I saw scientist do a test on an orange peel that had just been peeled off, and it dated like to 5000 years ago or something like that.

Don't ask me to show you, cause I saw it on TV.

Ahhh, that settles it then, you saw it on TV....we'll have to tell those silly scientists.

It is well known that we can't date items less than 150 years old. Did they tell you that on TV?

Originally posted by tylersch
Why does that sound familiar? *cough* The Bible */cough*

yes, the bible is antique
however, none of it was written during the "life of jesus"

Have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

dead sea scrolls have 1 tiny piece of text that COULD POSSIBLY be 2 verses of the gospel of mark

the following lines

gospel of mark 6:52-53

For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened / And when they had passed over, they came into the land of Gennesaret, and drew to the shore.

not very supporting of the existence of jesus even if it is actually from the gospel of mark

and it contains only 1 complete word in greek (the greek word "and")
i'm actually getting that all from the source you just posted
the DSS make no other possible references to any other NT documents.....

[edit on 1/16/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Madness, anybody can do what you and melatonin do,

you ask for evidence and expect it to be proved 100%, when you know that is next to impossible, especially with historical figures 2000+ years old.

Look, let me give you an example: Alexander the great must be a myth, why?
How could they not have the remains of such a well know historical figure, who supposedly conquered the "world"

Please prove to me he existed, he conquered the world, they should have his tomb somewhere, where is it?

How can they not even know where the tomb is of such a figure?

It should have been documented, shouldn't it?

[edit on 16-1-2007 by thehumbleone]

[edit on 16-1-2007 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by tylersch
Why does that sound familiar? *cough* The Bible */cough*

yes, the bible is antique
however, none of it was written during the "life of jesus"

But they were still written by people who knew Jesus, no matter when they wrote it.

Have you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

dead sea scrolls have 1 tiny piece of text that COULD POSSIBLY be 2 verses of the gospel of mark

the following lines

gospel of mark 6:52-53

For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened / And when they had passed over, they came into the land of Gennesaret, and drew to the shore.

not very supporting of the existence of jesus even if it is actually from the gospel of mark

and it contains only 1 complete word in greek (the greek word "and")
i'm actually getting that all from the source you just posted
the DSS make no other possible references to any other NT documents.....

I forgot the Dead sea scrolls were the Hebrew Scriptures. Nevermind that then.

But it still stands that Cicero Speeches are as much republishing of antique papers as The Bible.

yes, the bible is antique
however, none of it was written during the "life of jesus"

Says who?


Listen, even if it was written after Jesus death, it doesn't matter, Christianity began spreading immediately after his death.

The new testament has the most copies of any historical document, so we can prove it has remained true to the original translation, can you say the same thing about ciceros speech?

[edit on 16-1-2007 by thehumbleone]

[edit on 16-1-2007 by thehumbleone]

listen to me, neither of you are getting the point

none of the writings in the bible were written by people that knew jesus
why do i say this?
well, they are all dated far too late to have been written by somebody who was actually alive at the same time

also, i'm just asking for a single shred of evidence that supports the existence of "jesus" while said figure was alive

not much
i don't want a body
i don't even want a limb
i don't even want some tissue
i just want a CONTEMPORARY ACCOUNT

you're deflecting
we know that the writings of cicero haven't changed because WE HAVE THE ORIGINALS
something you cannot say about the bible

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
listen to me, neither of you are getting the point

none of the writings in the bible were written by people that knew jesus
why do i say this?
well, they are all dated far too late to have been written by somebody who was actually alive at the same time

I like how you think you know what happened when this occurred 2000 years ago, who do you think you are?

you are 20 some years old and you think you know what happened 2000 years ago?

Like I said before, you cannot even prove Alexander the great existed, why should anyone have to prove Jesus especially to Godless people, who are arrogant and think they know it all.



[edit on 16-1-2007 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I like how you think you know what happened when this occurred 2000 years ago, who do you think you are?

you are 20 some years old and you think you know what happened 2000 years ago?

Like I said before, you cannot even prove Alexander the great existed, why should anyone have to prove Jesus especially to Godless people, who are arrogant and think they know it all.

Well, at least myself and madness don't unquestioningly take TV as a great source of truth.

Yeah, the evidence of alexander comes from secondary and even tertiary sources. A lot if it is unreliable and based in myth, this is accepted by historians that study the history.

I guess there are similarities with Jesus, except many do not accept this unreliability or possible mythology of events of the bible. It maybe has something to do with him being their saviour...

Originally posted by melatonin
Yeah, the evidence of alexander comes from secondary and even tertiary sources. A lot if it is unreliable and based in myth, this is accepted by historians that study the history.

my favorite example for this is the story of a wall that was "magically" destroyed during a siege

in many ways, the alexander we know is very mythical
but people need to see mythology for what it is
truth wrapped in a thick shell of fiction

people just don't seem to see the myth surrounding jesus

great similarity between jesus and alex the great
both claimed to be the son of a deity
alex claimed to be the son of zeus
jesus claimed to be the son of his people's deity
i take both claims as nothing but myth

You know what, just just forget about it, I don't need to try to explain myself to blind people.

Melatonin and madness, you think to highly of your own knowledge which will be your downfall, but it doesn't matter what I think, Jesus is the one who will have the last say, may God have mercy on your faithless souls.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
You know what, just just forget about it, I don't need to try to explain myself to blind people.

Melatonin and madness, you think to highly of your own knowledge which will be your downfall, but it doesn't matter what I think, Jesus is the one who will have the last say, may God have mercy on your faithless souls.

And may Alexander have mercy on yours...

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Melatonin and madness, you think to highly of your own knowledge which will be your downfall, but it doesn't matter what I think, Jesus is the one who will have the last say, may God have mercy on your faithless souls.

actually, i think very lowly of my knowledge
i am young (18, not in my 20s BTW) and have much to learn through both education and lessons learned through living
sure, i was arrogant for a while, but my humbling experience happened

and may the mighty thor with his buddy the flying spaghetti monster have mercy on yours

Ha Ha, very funny, when judgment day comes I will go

When it comes for you two, you will be

Just kidding.

Madness,
After reading many of your posts in religious tinged threads. I have noticed a pattern. And then I thought about your board name, "madnessinmysoul". What is going on? God is exposing to you an element of communication. This particular communication is aimed at your soul and originates from where? The Holy Spirit..........
......"madnessinmysoul"..........
His communication is coming in the form of restlessness (the madness in your soul), discomfort, questioning, uncertainty, and anxiety. It has been my experience in life that often this method of Godly communication is aimed at us when our soul’s traditions have built walls around us, walls that block the flow of the Holy Spirit to freely communicate with us. Walls that cast God out. Walls that question his very existence.

You have a cry within you. The restlessness within you is directional. Listen, and you will be guided to the people and places that God has chosen to assist you in fulfilling your destiny........
.....If you sense restlessness and a sense of departure from what has been normal and traditional in your spiritual life, no doubt God is launching something new........

Your curiousity is leading you closer to God, whether you know it or not.

Cheers.

my name on this board is just a little bit of an old song by the goo goo dolls song "there you are"

Method in madness now, there's madness in my soul

there is no more significance to it
i just think that it sounds cool
stop looking at something that has no meaning past the superficial

if my "restlessness" is driving me anywhere it's towards conflict
nothing more
not towards religious folk
just towards folk
i'm here to deny ignorance
not to seek religion
i went through my "finding religion" phase
looked at every religion i could find
i thought i had found something with buddhism
then i realized i was essentially being an atheist that meditates
so i removed the title buddhist and simply stated that i am in fact an atheist
i am almost certain that there is no god
can't say that i am certain that there is no god because that would be as delusional as being certain a deity existed

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i'm here to deny ignorance, not to seek religion

Then deny it, don't support it.
LOL, you started a thread entitled "Did Jesus Exist....." Looks to me like you're seeking religious enlightenment. In fact, it couldn't be more blatantly obvious.
Why do you mainly seek out (and post in) religious spiritual threads? If you're not seeking religion. Are you seeking to destroy other people's beliefs?
Are you evil?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i am almost certain that there is no god
can't say that i am certain.......

I know this, like I said, you are still searching........
Sometimes finding him is a long difficult journey.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by rocknroll]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
listen to me, neither of you are getting the point

none of the writings in the bible were written by people that knew jesus
why do i say this?
well, they are all dated far too late to have been written by somebody who was actually alive at the same time

also, i'm just asking for a single shred of evidence that supports the existence of "jesus" while said figure was alive

not much
i don't want a body
i don't even want a limb
i don't even want some tissue
i just want a CONTEMPORARY ACCOUNT

you're deflecting
we know that the writings of cicero haven't changed because WE HAVE THE ORIGINALS
something you cannot say about the bible

Please give a link to show that " they are all dated far too late to have been written by somebody who was actually alive at the same time"

Are you saying that the 12 apostles were born AFTER Jesus died?

And all I have to post is this (for now)

www.tektonics.org...