We are despicable - Take a quick look at this.

Originally posted by Jeremy032180
The pigs' basic needs are denied, and they experience severe physical and psychological disorders.

That's beyond funny. Anyways, these animals are bred for this, literally. It's not like they are just taking random animals out of the woods and torturing them, these animals were born in a special room of a special place to be my special dinner.

Hey look, if God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

I'm headed to KFC, to grab a bucket.

Well my ancestors were cannibals, so I should be allowed to eat other humans. I hear they taste like pork. I would like to have my own supply of human livestock and what not. Preferably healthy looking ones the fat ones could be used for lamp shades.

Originally posted by lombozo

Originally posted by Jeremy032180
The pigs' basic needs are denied, and they experience severe physical and psychological disorders.

That's beyond funny. Anyways, these animals are bred for this, literally. It's not like they are just taking random animals out of the woods and torturing them, these animals were born in a special room of a special place to be my special dinner.

Hey look, if God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

I'm headed to KFC, to grab a bucket.

God didn't intend for us to eat animals. in fact in his original design he asked us to care for them and the earth, but then that whole fall of man thing kind of changed a lot of his good intensions.

The problem with the OP is that in no way can you say that those 6-7 pictures and a video are representative of the poultry or meat industry as a whole. That's like me showing you a picture of my Ford Explorer that caught on fire and saying "SEE! ALL FORD EXPLORERS CATCH ON FIRE!!!!" Flawed logic.

I love animals. In no way do I support animal cruelty, even if the animals are raised for the sole purpose of being eaten.

But please do not try and convince us with a few pictures of random farms and plants then suggest that the entire industry is like that and I shouldn't eat meat. I think the good men and women who make an honest living in the plants and farms that do it the right way would have a bone to pick with you.

That's what bugs me about PETA ... informing the public is fine. Scare tactics, terrorism, and misinformation is not. That's not any better than trying to shove any bible, koran, or book of whatever lord you chose down my throat.

Granted this is the internet and I don't have to read that post, but you get my point.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Fiverz]

well, no one answered my last question so ill ask a new one

if god doesnt want us to eat meat, why does it taste so good?


mmmmmmm beef.

For me personally, there is ONE aspect of animal and vegetable rights that is real.
and that is that you should bless anything you consume.
gluttony is a sin.

now the thing about factory farming

is that if you really consider your food, and imagined cutting out all the middle men

I would never find the most demented sow and tell me to give me its offspring to eat.

I would never look at a chicken and say, "give me that one, I will just eat around its chafing wounds"

it's not only about rights when it comes to factory farming.
it boils down to, thats really nasty.
wash your hands before you eat style.

edit: my choice is find a farmer who raises animals properly for my sane consumption.

[edit on 31/8/2006 by erbalisse]

animal are food ,we are designed to digest them are we not? yes one can suppliment ones diet with beans and lugumes but at such a high rate that one would almost be eating constantly, thus vegetarians have an extremely high rate of enemia. it natural for people to eat meat, if the ancient cave people never decided to hunt and eat animals, we never would have become a hunter gatherer society. we would be like the rest of the prey herds waiting for a predator to eat the weakest one of us as we go screaming up trees going oo-oo-ah-ah

see, this is why i eat and now grow organic.

sure it's a little bit more expensive, but it's healthier, more humane, and extra delicious

funny how folks get all bent out of shape when they see a dead pig or a cow being killed by a shot to the head. people!!! there are thousands of chidren everyday being kidnapped, killed, tortured, raped and abused but lets be all upset about a little chick in a dumpster. concidering there are nations fighting for food and survival i find it amazing that we find it important to discuss how terrible it is to slaughter live stock?! where are your priorities? they are food, the victims of war are not. besides you honestly think if you were to go without food on a regular basis , you would even dare to talk about this crap?

Originally posted by Thaumaturgus
Anyone here making the argument that vegetarians apparently care more about animals than our own children is being completely ignorant. As Delta Alter said, each issue has its importance and neither should be ignored. Personally, I don’t think that anyone is ignoring either; both have a multitude of videos available to the public. The only difference is that animals cannot speak for themselves – which is one reason why this thread was created. Although I would agree that this thread's title could lead to people pointing out other important issues, it has already been stated that it is understood that there are other things that make humans despicable other than cruelty to animals.

I am not a vegetarian. I have eaten meat every day of my life that I remember; but that does not mean that I do not care about them! I have no defense for my actions other than that I am not prepared to switch. Defending cruelty to animals by listing other issues is just avoiding the problem. Shame!

Did no one watch the video that I linked? It had a lot more than live animals having their throats slit and wiggling around (my link at 11:31) – Illusory. Did you miss the bull castration and de-horning (3:39)? How about the pigs who didn’t grow fast enough being killed via slamming (9:10)? What about the bolt-gunning?

I own several pets (2 cats, 2 dogs, a leopard gecko, and a bird) and several varieties of plants (2 zz-plants, some vines, assorted flowers, trees, and some garden plants) and I can assure you that while my cat would scratch your eyes out and scream in pain if you slit his throat, if you cut down my tree, it would simply grow back (crgintx). Please, give me a break, Mouth, insects? Do you eat insects? (please don’t answer) I’m sure we would all agree that insects are not nearly as important as animals, or our children (although they are needed). I do my part to save insects, but when they get in the way, sometimes I just wouldn’t save them the luxuries that I would my animals or my neighbors in similar situations.

It’s unfortunate that vegetarians “are using [doctored photos] to promote their agenda” (shots), but can it not be said that we could do better, even if their claims are lesser? Do we really need to treat animals so cruelly? Can not their deaths be quick and relatively painless?

If the only solution that the food industry has to our society’s greed for meat is to treat our earthly comrades like a commodity, then I want nothing to do with it. We can do better, and we should not be satisfied for a mediocre effort!

I'm sorry for caring...

[edit on 30/8/06 by Thaumaturgus]

I haven't watched your video yet but I will.Remember I lived on a farm.I have seen bulls castrated live.The last bull my father did was named moses and it was after he took him through a polebarn wall breaking a few of his ribs.They aren't these nice cuddly critters you make them out to be. They are wild especially raging testosterone filled bulls.Thank you though for letting the lies and misconceptions get through to you.I would love to see you work on a farm.Not to mention the source of your files taken from a vegetarian website...lol!!!Whats worse is I make way more then my dad.Shows how much you make being a farmer.He barely squeaks by.Sometimes he borrows money from me to plant crops.

Ok..I watched the video.Yeah the poor pigs had there throats slit while they were still conscious.I can see your point we should of called DR. Kevorkian in to make sure the animals felt as minimal as possible.Maybe you could pay the extra cost.



[edit on 31-8-2006 by Illusory]

Originally posted by laiguana

I would rather save 1 lizard than a million humans, especially if they are your descendents

Oh yeah, i forgot there are people who think they are lizards...

laiguana, nomatter how much you wish you were part lizard, or your ancestors were dinosaurs, you are human....

You keep wishing you were a lizard, and keep hating humans you will have to reincarnate once again as a human until you accept and learn from what you are.


[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

It's situations like this on the pics and movies that make me believe that some of us could evenctualy do not be "so human" as we think! it's just amazing how some people can be so evil or bad!, to kill animals to eat or for mass production it's not need to have some beaviors as we see in that pics, movies, etc.
i can kill a chiken to eat with out the need to be sadistic at all!.

as far as i'm aware conditions animals are kept in the uk are getting better and better. you can't expect change overnight. if you really want to fight back at the battery animals being bred in those conditions, then buy free range meat, buy organic food.. sure it's a little more. but at the end of the day, the more people purchase these free range meats and organic alternatives, then battery farmers will have to re-think their farming.

you have a 'choice' to buy a chicken that was reared in those conditions, or you can buy one that was reared in better conditions, free range etc.

you don't 'have' to buy those battery reared chickens.

saying all that, if 'all' food was organic, we wouldn't be able to meet demand and about 1/3 of the population would starve. there just wouldn't be enough food to go around if it was all made organically. so it is a neccesity to rear certain animals in those conditions to meet demand. however, those conditions could still be a lot better and you could still meet demand.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by shaunybaby]

There's an ancient story from the Americas about the creation of the world and its inhabitants. The natives said that originally, the land was filled with "wooden people," who were cruel and heartless. They forgot their creators and as a result, their creators decided to forget them. The animals were given the ability to talk and the wooden people became their favorite dish. As they were killing the wooden people, they reminded them of being beat by them, starved by them and so on. I thought, now that's an interesting story.... Looked at my dogs in a whole new way

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so sorry if I repeat any points already made.

I typically steer clear of websites like the one that is the subject of this thread. Their ridiculous agenda laden approach pushes off the map the REAL issues that should be addressed by the food industry.

Bottom line for me is that while those pictures seem horrible, my only real objection to industrial farming is the degree to which some farming practices may impact the quality of the food we eat. THAT to me is far more important...

For any who might object to the "killing" part of the equation, I have to admit I don't share your view. Nature didn't precisely setup the rules in any other realistic manner, now did it? We kill to eat. Plain and simple.

It is my view that our success as a species was due in large part to our diverse diet. This wasn't something decided by any single individual or group of individuals... It is part of how we evolved as a species...over a significant period of time. The push for human vegetarianism and veganism is simply ridiculous.

That is not to say I have anything against vegans or vegetarians... BUT I do have something against those who would wield their diet like some religious concept they insist I must follow. THAT to me is unacceptable.

Frankly, I don't feel the need to apologize for my biology.



[edit on 31-8-2006 by loam]

Youd think, being this supposed civilized society, that we could find a more humane way to get our food from our fellow animals. But no...we have to do it in the cruelest, most inhumane way.

They may be "just" animals, but they still have the same soul essence as you, and come from the same source. So we shouldnt just shrug it off as a sad fact of life.

Have any of you seen how they kill a cow? Now surely, surely, they can find a more humane way to do it....a bullet in the face is better than being chopped by this huge saw blade as it slowly slices you in two.

Originally posted by anglosaxon
...and only support moral suppliers.
Twenty years a vegetarian from 1980-2000 and now a minimalist meat consumer,I source eggs and meat products only from moral farming sources and insist that free range chickens ARE genuinely free range. Thankfully a colleague has a smallhold farm and produces quality products with an emphasis on compassion.

It is good that you KNOW somebody who produces free range chickens if that is what you want to eat. All you people that insist on eating organic food may be in for a little shock, all food that is sold as organic is not organic. I know a farmer that has an organic farm and several organic food stands. He may grow a little food organically, but when he carries produce back to be sold at the stands, it is nonorganic grown produce that he has bought from other local farmers.

Just because a food is labeled as organic or free range doesn't mean squat unless you know the scource for a fact. In a lot of cases it is just another excuse just to raise the prices. This man that i mentioned, his farm is certified organic. That way if anybody has any question as to whether the food he sells is organically grown, all he has to do is show the certification and most people will have no more questions.

Originally posted by loam

Bottom line for me is that while those pictures seem horrible, my only real objection to industrial farming is the degree to which some farming practices may impact the quality of the food we eat. THAT to me is far more important...

I agree. As a farmer, we are forced to produce large and attractive foods that don't always have the best taste or is the best for you. The public thinks that if a food isn't the largest or with certian color, it is of inferior quality. I know two farmers that are brothers. One would grow collards and mustard in the winter. I saw the other brother ask another farmer if he could get some collards from his garden. He said you can have all you want, but why do you want some of mine since your brother has hundreds of acres. He told the farmer that his brother had to put so much nitrogen to his collards so that he could sell them that they would give him diarrhea.

When I grew watermelons, I would not put near as much nitrogen as other farmers, I had my own formula for fertilizer that I used. My watermelons were very sweet and had a great taste. To me, the watermelons that you buy in a store or get in a restruant have a salty taste and taste like cardboard. Every buyer that bought from me said that I had the best tasting watermelons that they had ever eaten. The only way to stay in buisness growing watermelons is to grow large ones and grow them fast. This way degrades the shelf life and taste but it is what the customer wants.

I had a cousin from Chicago that brought her new husband down one year. He had been on a farm only one other time when he was very young. I was showing him around and I need to chech my watermelons because they were almost ready to harvest. I cut one and asked if he would like to try one. He didn't look too thrilled with the idea so I asked him if he liked watermeolns. He said that he had tried them before and wasn't crazy about them. So I talked him into taking a bite. He said "I have never tasted a watermelon that tasted that good in my entire life". When he went home, he had to take about 20 or 30 with him.

Bacon is delicious, mmmm. Has anyone ever been to a KFC buffet? Now THAT is good eats...

I dont see anything wrong with this. But I watch animals eating other animals on the discovery channel so I don't see the difference. Seriously, lol, to eat you have to kill and plants are living things too. How many plants are, "killed in inhumane ways", so "vegetarianananananans" can eat and feel self righteous? Vegetarians are murderers too. Naah nah na naah NA!