We are despicable - Take a quick look at this.

Originally posted by Battlefresh
... MENTAL IMBALANCE and feel right about themselves...
...If I saw anyone perform acts of torture on an innocent animal I might be motivated to kill him/her myself with my bare hands. Even if I went to jail for life I would rest better knowing one less PSYCHO was gone from this planet...

Wow, looks to me like there is only one psycho in this scenario, and its you. I would agree that you have some kind of mental imbalance.

You are no better than people such as Hitler, who killed millions because of what he believed was right. You would willingly kill someone and feel good about it for something you feel was right.

We are carnivores, its what we are designed for. Our ancestors used to chase little fluffy things through the forests and rip their throats with our teeth or a semi blunt piece of flint. Cruelty happens. It has many different forms, but in reality the vast majority of these animals would not have experienced life at all if they weren't being grown for us to eat.

I agree, there is probably a much better way of doing things, but mankind is all ways hungry.

Why when you bring up cruelty to animals, people bring up cruelty to humans? Is it like who cares about animals, because there are starving kids or abused people? So animals don't matter? That is bs. Especially when you are enabling it to go on.

the question ive always had is this, and im not entirely joking about it. (yes i asked the waitress in a vegan resturant this, they served free range chicken, i was nearly asked to leave)

why is it bad to eat an animal thats been raised to be eaten, probably in horrid conditions, and you are probably putting it out of its misery;

yet,

its ok to eat "free range" animals that have known a degree of freedom and suddenly BAM! they are dinner.

i know they arent cognative but i can imagine two 'conversations' between chickens. one in captivity and one free range

captive "OH SWEET RELIEF! IM FREE OF THIS WRETCHED PRISON!!"

free range "hey charlie, what you gonna do today when youre done wandering around here? hey, whats that? oh look a nice human come to say hi, wait, wahts he doing, PUT ME DOWN! NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

we'd be fine if we could breed our animlas like "the resturaunt at the end of the universe"

"cool! we'll meet the meat"

Originally posted by headcheck
just that first picture alone of the male chicks in the dumpster makes me feel SO LAME for eating chicken. I can't believe they are just thrown away?!? WTF?!?!

As the Colonel says..." only 2 out of 3 chickens pass the test "

This stuff is horrible. That said, many pictures and videos are doctored, ESPECIALLY by people who advocate animal rights and vegetarianism. I've seen many doctored and outright faked videos by PETA people, so take everything here with a grain of salt.

And also, we're omnivores, not carnivores.

Confined veal is something that really happens. They are grown pretty big. No resturaunt willingly sells veal that is grown like that, nor will most farmers do it.

Wasn't a farm kid, but was on farms often enough to get a few ideas in my skull. Big pigs are mean. Most things that weigh more than I do, don't respect me enough to listen to me, without a fight.

Daddy worked in the meat packing industry. You let an animal touch the floor (even when long dead), you aren't supposed to sell the meat. If you cut into an abcess, you're supposed to shut down the whole line, seperate the non abcessed meat, and steralize everything. FDA standards on meat aren't nice.

Kosher kills are gruesome. They bleed them alive.

I've watched chicken factories killing chickens. It's all so fast the chicken's still twitching by the time it goes to be cooled down in it's packaging.

Hey, I eat squid that's hanging from a fishing line while other squids cut it a new sex hole with it's male member. Doesn't bother me one bit. It's like chewing on someone's nose, all that cartilage like flesh...

Food is food.

Did it ever occur to anyone to look up how they vegetatrian movement got started
Apparently when the eastern cultures mainy chinese and japanese came over as settled into california western doctors took note of the substantial health difference between their elderly and ours. So studies were done and they came to figure out that cooking meet removes most of the nutrients from it. Hence raw meat was better for you. And of course vegetables could be eaten raw so that got lumped in too as people need nutrients from them also. Then in the late fifties somehow it became proper to not eat meat at all as the cruelty to animals movement was joined with those that ate only raw products and vegetarism was born. It also had to do with the big scare of bacteria that you could get from raw meats which personally I think is total BS. I think all of us have had dysenteria before and the food was cooked then.
All and all the only point I am trying to make is that while vegetarians sit on the pedastool and say how much better they are because they dont eat meat but yet dont even know that their own movement is a lie.

Hey quackmaster,actually we are omnivores,not carnivoes...check your teeth man.

I have been a vegatarian since i was 11 and since then i have never had a cold that lasts more than a day,never had a cough although i smoke a bit,never needed any antibiotics,not had any illnesses at all.I can share a room with cold infected folks and still not catch it.
The proof is in the pudding.

If people want to eat the bodies of sentient beings,then thats up to them.But at least go for something organic and free range...eating the bodies of animals who live and die in terror,brought up on antibiotics,hormones and god knows what diseases in concentration camp conditions CANNOT BE GOOD FOR YOU.

By the way i am 80 kg in weight,can run for 10 miles without a rest, do not have a pasty complection,and have zero undigested red meat in my bowels...

I challenge any of you pig eating lard-butts to give the evil factory meat a rest for six months(switch to organic/freerange if you like).
You will feel better all round-i promise.

By the way,i would eat meat if it was a survival situation,but i would catch it myself from the wild.At least this way the animal would have had a normal life until that point.

Also what do you meat eaters think about the six types of bacterio phage that your FDA has just OK ed for your food? MMM mmmm,nice!

for all ye christians out there: God never intended for us to eat meat (see the first book of the bible for reference). So, in a world where we don't have to anymore (aside from those remote tribal areas) why do we? people ask me "why are a vegetarian" my response is usually "cause it's 2006". move on. it's like oil. there are soooo many alternatives that are more effecient and will in turn save money for all companies and save lives too (great and small). in my opinion christians will know the end of times are near when things come "full circle" and gods creatures are no longer a source for food.

In a nut shell I think most well balanced people would agree that cruelty in all it's forms is not something you would advocate. Some of the instances on this thread are clearly very unpleasent and I feel should not happen. Having said that I have no intention of doing anything to try and stop them other than potentially lending my signature to the accassional petition.

That is my point, and partly the reason I am not here yelling how bad the world is. Most people yell and make bold 'I'm not putting up with that!' statements, yet when push comes to shove there willingness to do anything constructive (or more commonly known as 'requiring effort' by themselves) tends towards zero.

Either accept it happens, and part of the reason is mankinds collective demand to be fed, or actually do something constructive.

Personally, and I make no apologies for it, but neither do I pat myself on the back for it - I will stick with the first option.

a lot of these posts are based on ignorants. like "until we find a way to save starving people i don't care about animals lives". well:

If we eat the plants we grow -instead of feeding them to animals - the world's food shortage will disappear virtually overnight. Remember that 100 acres of land will produce enough beef for 20 people but enough wheat to feed 240 people.

we are trained to think that eating meat is the right thing to do. but if you want to save lives and the enviroment we need to start thinking differently.

Every year 440 million tons of grain are fed to livestock - so that the world's rich can eat meat. At the same time 500 million people in poor countries are starving to death. Every six seconds someone in the world starves to death because people in the west are eating meat. Approximately 60 million people a year die of starvation. All those lives could be saved - because those people could eat the grain used to fatten cattle and other farm animals - if Americans ate 10% less meat.

...and only support moral suppliers.
Twenty years a vegetarian from 1980-2000 and now a minimalist meat consumer,I source eggs and meat products only from moral farming sources and insist that free range chickens ARE genuinely free range. Thankfully a colleague has a smallhold farm and produces quality products with an emphasis on compassion.
Factory farming methods are an abomination and those who farm this way can only be driven out of business by boycoting their products and informing the public of their intensive and immoral methods.
It is a sad reflection of those people in power in the agriculture industry who continue to turn a blind eye to some of these vile practices.

Originally posted by reaganero
Every year 440 million tons of grain are fed to livestock - so that the world's rich can eat meat. At the same time 500 million people in poor countries are starving to death. Every six seconds someone in the world starves to death because people in the west are eating meat. Approximately 60 million people a year die of starvation. All those lives could be saved - because those people could eat the grain used to fatten cattle and other farm animals - if Americans ate 10% less meat.

Hold on here.

You state that "500 million people in poor countries are starving to death", then you state that "Approximately 60 million people a year die of starvation". It can't be both. Humans can only live so long without food, call it 2 months if they have water. So, if 500 million were starving to death, your other statement should be "Approximately 500 million people a year die of starvation". So which is it? Half a billion people dying, or really only 60 million? Pick one, because you can't have your cake, and eat it too.

While I wholeheartedly agree with the principal of what you're saying, I resent the use of over enormously over inflated figures as a scare tactic.

The pigs' basic needs are denied, and they experience severe physical and psychological disorders.

That's beyond funny. Anyways, these animals are bred for this, literally. It's not like they are just taking random animals out of the woods and torturing them, these animals were born in a special room of a special place to be my special dinner.

yeah, i guess it reads a bit confusing. a person "Starving to death" isn't dead yet. and it's 60 million A YEAR who have died from starvation.

A country, society or individuals, true and real Values, Morals and Behaviour is often best understood by looking at the core of their own self beliefs about themselves. The behaviour and way people act is only a reflection of these internal beliefs, and a way of propping them up or achieving some benefit or gain, or avoidance of Pain.

(A well known psychological topic people do things for two reasons, the Function of their behaviour, actions and words are only to gain pleasure or avoid pain. That pleasure could be tactile and real such as purchasing a drink after work, or even non-defined outcomes, such as a stronger sense of self or inflated Ego, as in some posters to this site! However some are motivated to post for the pleasure they receive about their view of self by educating, teaching or helping others, so this is in very strong effect on ATS both the good and Bad)

So having said that and Knowing it to be true I feel that it is easy to see that therefore the way a individual, society, and country treat external people and animals is ultimately a reflection of their own self beliefs about themselves (and im not being pious here, most negative self beliefs are just patterns and cycles and paradigms learnt in childhood, which were taught in childhood and the cycle goes on and on). It is a well known fact that anyone who abuses children (physical) or is a bully is attempting to recreate a balance in their internal self view of themselves, by making themselves feel more powerful or important over others, by subjugation they gain a very very momentary inflation in their internal viewpoint to either feel less vulnerable or weak or more important. They reflect this low self-esteem on the external environment as it also props up their own view of themselves. So this is quite a complicated interplay of motivations, avoidance and current internal representational self of the ID, Ego at work. Even though it is complicated and not clear cut totally it is correct though to posit that people who take pleasure in using others, and gaining pleasure from others misfortune are themselves in need of some serious internal work to be able to have a love of themselves without resorting to this externalised behaviour. This is as this behaviour is addictive, the view or feeling one gains from externalising this bullyish actions is only short lived and needs to be repeated and repeated, as ultimately the sub conscious true self still knows that deep down nothing has changed on how the individual, society or country views itself and values itself in the truth of day. Infact this very behaviour tends to devalue this self at its core, as it is aware that the reason of the internal lack of self worth is present due to previous external events such as the one being carried out by that self, on it that led to its situation in the first place!

Therefore logically how we treat other feeling things or sentient beings is to surmise a reflection of how the self values itself and expects (as stated im not being pious! This is nearly always learnt behaviour and very difficult to own up to and face) to be treated. This can then be extrapolated to a how we treat and value other beings, animals or not. We all know that animals and fish have feelings too. This paradox is shown in the culture of the west where we love pets, adore them, look after them more than a holmless man on the street outside, whilst compartmentalising other animals as merely for our own pleasure and benefit. (most pets I dare say see humans as we see other animals, i.e. food, pleasure, enjoyment etc)

Now as said these patterns are learnt and rooted in early childhood mainly. It truly is a sign of Western society that today globally more children are aware of the M McDonalds symbol and Coca Cola than are able to say who Churchill or Hitler were, or even the current leader of their respective nation states. More children know who is Ronald McDonald than who know who Jesus Was! Truly a sign of the internal western viewpoint and its values and focus, being spread by advertising and repetition (learnt behaviour!) to the entire globe. Until there is a sorting out of the internal values of people, societies and countries and cultures animal factory farming and mistreatment of animals and other humans and ultimately war will continue.

To the poster who said Petra etc doctored images….OMG what are you going on about, im no fan of Peta but there is no need to doctor anything, the reality and gore and sick images are easily available just by visiting an abattoir or a factory farm, there is no need to doctor anything, this isn’t spin its on a vast scale and occurring hundreds of thousands of times a day globally. I suggest you set up a research forum with the Iranian president and discuss the non-existence of the Holocaust, and all the doctored images and evidence from that period?

Anyone who has ever been to an Abattoir knows this to be the case. And I have when I was just out of school, studying my a-levels and working part time in catering for money. I never touched meat from that day to this. I don’t mention this much to people, I have friends who don’t know (well ive never mentioned it) I abstain from meat, I cant stand holier than though people as they are just taking the same stance of doing that to gain self worth internally by knocking someone else, They may as well call the big kid Fat or slow one stupid, they are bullies in their own right (a perfect example the war on terror lol) but I mention it here for discussion and passing on some knowledge of this subject.

It does not make sense-eating meat in today’s society of the west. Now don’t get me wrong if like some plane crash survivors in the 1970’s I was stranded on a mountain with no food and lots of snow I would be the first to Eat another human to survive (without the killing bit first !!), I would if I lived in an environment where meat was needed to survive like the Eskimos have no qualms about it, however I would respect the animal and treat it humanely which is what we don’t do in the modern societies factory farming methods. There is no dignity in death in a Abattoir at all. It’s a killing factory like the gas chambers.

We all know the environment is under huge strain. For every 1kg of meat compared to 1 kg of grain you need the following 10 x more water 10 x more electricity (global warming without the methane from cow farts!) 10 x more time, contd next post.

10 x more pesticides and other agro chemicals, 10x more additives and chemical flavourings and to boot its 10x more expensive!!! In addition to this it rots very quickly indeed, and uses more energy again to store it. Rainforests have been decimated, 20 – 30 thousand years of top soil washed away in 10 years for Beef Burgers, societies forced to move, cultures destroyed and the environment ruined, all for Burgers that taste bad too.

The problem we have as said earlier is that this is learnt and cyclic behaviour. Most people in the west are brought up eating meat by their parents so it is norm, oral anchoring of behaviour in developing children is a very strong habit and belief to break…. But it does not mean its right just because it’s the norm.

To surmise it’s unhealthy, ruining the planet, devaluing our selves and our cultures, cruel and unnecessary. Why bother?

A quote from the old age on this to the new:

For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.

Pythagoras (6th century BC)

The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life.

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

MischeviouslyMakingTheBestVeggyRoastOnEarth.

Kind Regards
Elf

www.storewars.org...

This is a kind of amusing look at the vegggies and organics

Yeah to the OP, it's sad. Heres a picture of one of my momma hens on day 20 waiting patiently for all her babies to hatch. Isn't she beautiful! And a winter picture of my hen house.... I take good care of my girls.

Momma waiting
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Hatching egg..........
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Happy Family


Where all the cool chicks live
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