What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

Ceci, I wanted to address your question about rage.

I can certainly understand the concept of rage. Believe it or not, I used to have a huge issues with that (it has taken a long time for me to be as calm as I am nowadays). I would lash out because I was frustrated and angry and goddamn it! I just wanted other people to hurt as much as I was hurting. If they weren't in that kind of pain, well, it was my job to give it to them.

Looking back, I can see how that rage hurt nobody but myself. People would avoid me because I was unpleasant to be around and it definitely affected my career in ways I still pay for almost 10 years later.

I can most definitely understand why and how a black person could become so angry and the rage would be justified. Unfortunately, that rage is never going to help improve things. I have found through personal experience that it's really unproductive and you only end up hurting yourself, no matter how good it feels at the time.

Dearest Duzey,

I would like to thank you for your kind and beautiful words on this thread so far. I thank you for your contributions from the bottom of my heart. And I also am grateful that your understanding of this issue is an integral part of this thread.

Yes, personal rage does not do anything good. And as I go through my own dilemmas about how I feel about this important issue, I am trying to hear what everyone is saying.

And collective rage needs to be channeled into something more positive so that we can build more bridges instead of having a finger-pointing fest.

Thank you for understanding why a Black person might be mad. But I would also say that the feeling is more complicated. Sometimes, the level of frustration plays into this too.

I too know that rage never does solve things. But I just wanted to say that the rage needs to be explained because there is always a stereotype of "Black people being angry". No. We are not angry all the time. But we express frustration at a system that has kind of betrayed us in a way.

It is sort of a feeling of sadness and "nihilism" (like HH mentioned from Cornel West). And when the "system" does not acknowledge your suffering and you hear others voice what the system does, "nihilism" is an important feeling because it's a way to cope. But it is not the best way to cope with the situation.

The level of frustration must be defused. And one way of doing it is being here, despite all the things that happened. Being here helps me more than anything else. Don't underestimate it.

My way of coping is talking it out and opening threads like this. Although things do get ugly and I put my foot in my mouth, I mean well. It helps me to deal with the frustration by talking it out with you. And in the end, it teaches me to be a more understanding and better person in the end. The most important part about this is that I develop a sense of caring and empathy for others. That part is more important to me than anything else (I'm a broken record on this, I know. But we need to stop being unfeeling toward one another.)

People need to have a safe venue to talk about issues like this. We're doing a wonderful thing to curb the anger and the frustration that might occur in the real world. That's why I am very big on honesty.

But rage is something that needs to be deeply discussed a bit more. There needs to be a way to stretch out what you've been proposing. You've hit it on the head, though.

But again, my heart is gratified with your excellent advice and comments.

Continue to grace us with your presence here more. I appreciate your wisdom and balance in this entire issue.


[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by StretchUSAF
Personally, I feel that the media in mainstream has divided up the country. They have divided up life.

Hmmm. So, do you place the blame solely on the media? Do you consider them to be at the top of the 'pyramid of power'? If not, who do you think is directing their actions?

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Originally posted by StretchUSAF
Personally, I feel that the media in mainstream has divided up the country. They have divided up life.

Hmmm. So, do you place the blame solely on the media? Do you consider them to be at the top of the 'pyramid of power'? If not, who do you think is directing their actions?

Yes, I do partly place alot of the blame on media. But, as in all organizations, there is a heirarchy. Just as the military has it's leadership structure...from the lowliest enlisted Airman, to the highest 4 star general...I believe that the media...(CNN, MSNBC, FOX) also have somebody above them. Not sure exactly who lies in their chain of command...

But, I do know that money does play a big roll, if the media, the government, and the directors want to make money (as we all know they do) they see what the ratings of previous shows hold. They in-turn take what they learn from ratings and show the people what they want. I know that there is a little thing called "Freedom of Press", but exactly how free is the press? They are stifled by rules and regulations..as we all are. So how is it that someone can very easily plead the 5th Amendment and have no problems using that defense...but if say the New York times wants to print something about say.."UFO's", it would most likely get shutdown? Why id it that certain right's and amendments are used without restriction, while some are used with much restriction? Fair? NO..

So, in conclusion...I am not sure...I know that the media plays a major role in everything...but are they at the top of the pyramid.....???

Originally posted by StretchUSAF
I believe that the media...(CNN, MSNBC, FOX) also have somebody above them. Not sure exactly who lies in their chain of command... So, in conclusion...I am not sure...I know that the media plays a major role in everything...but are they at the top of the pyramid.....???

Okay. I think I know where you are, in terms of conspiracy theory indoctrination, lol. I'm going to give you a name to look up, and this is totally off topic now, but :Rupert Murdoch. Read into his financial dealings (how he makes his money and what he does with it), or do an ATS search. Then, come back and answer.

Good luck!

Originally posted by ceci2006
StretchUSAF,

I would like to ask if you read my post about Patrick Buchanan. He is an example of a white man who "isn't stifled". He certainly sounds oppressed, however. What do you think about his comments?

[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Yes, I did just read your post about Mr. Buchanan. You are right about him not being stifled...not often do you hear about statements of this nature actually hitting the mainstream. I do think that he is voicing what many of the people of the United States (mainly of caucasian descent) feel. His comments I am sure, made many people distraught. Do I agree with him?....on aspects. I do feel that white people are going to be/ if not already the minority. Maybe because I grew up in Boston Ma. and was a "white minority" myself. I have visited the Bronx, Upstate, New York City and the population seemed mainly African American, Puerto Rican, or Chinese...not many caucasian people. But, I do see America as the melting pot of the world, how many all white people do live there?? With the mixing of races, not many people that say they are "white" are 100% white. I agree with the closing of our borders to an extent. I feel that people crossing illegally....should be shot on sight, too much terrorism to take risks. People who want to immigrate legally is fine, as long as they are in good standing.

On another note..please accept my apologies in advance..but I will be on a plane for about 18 hours tomorrow...so I will not be able to post for a little bit...
Thanks!

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Originally posted by StretchUSAF
I believe that the media...(CNN, MSNBC, FOX) also have somebody above them. Not sure exactly who lies in their chain of command... So, in conclusion...I am not sure...I know that the media plays a major role in everything...but are they at the top of the pyramid.....???

Okay. I think I know where you are, in terms of conspiracy theory indoctrination, lol. I'm going to give you a name to look up, and this is totally off topic now, but :Rupert Murdoch. Read into his financial dealings (how he makes his money and what he does with it), or do an ATS search. Then, come back and answer.

Good luck!

I see where you are leading me!
So, the big wigs, with all the money, are pulling the strings with little or no restriction on what money can buy now-a-days! Pretty sad, but quite eye opening. Thanks for the help and for the scholarly advice! You seem to me like you are quite an educated woman! B/T/W..here is the link I used for research.

Rupert Murdoch via (Center for American Progress)

*ALERT*

*girl bonding moment that has no business being on SlugFest*

Ceci darling,

As always, you leave me pretty close to speechless with your kind words. You are one of a select few on ATS that have that ability. Normally, you can't get me to shut up.

I've sat here trying to type a reply to you for 20 minutes and I just cannot seem to put the words together the way I want to. This is the kind of thing that resulted in my calling you one of the kindest, most thoughtful people I had the pleasure of meeting on ATS.

And now I've sat here for another 10 minutes trying to string together another sentence. :shk:

I never want to compete against you in a debate tournament. I'd just stand there stuttering and reaching for the tissues.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Originally posted by StretchUSAF

First off...kudos to you on hitting most of my thoughts..I keep running out of space on this post!!

You are partially right about illegals and "In God we trust", it is mainly a religious aspect. But, with the religion brought into the states from illegals, the issue is brought up more, by the illegals, to the legals that can voice it.

As to the fraudulant use of welfare and social security benefits: Yes, I know it's hard to get money from Uncle Sam, but people do it, illegally and legally. Both sides overdraw if you ask me.

I look at employers choosing illegal immigrants in much the same light. Our government must be complicit in this because, otherwise, they would have stopped it, or at least, dissuaded the trend through tax breaks and the usual economic levers.

I would probably hire illegals to work for me at half the wage of legals too. Sad but true. But, in the end, it hurts the country, and people who do work their butts off.

Now, you've stated these issues as those belonging to white men. I would argue that many, many non-whites feel the same exact way. As I said in my last post, I offer the thesis that, perhaps, due to the interference of some "Globalist Elite," NONE of our views are accurately represented in the media, or by our own elected officials.

Your right, everybody is influenced by somebody, so who is the main influencer? Or is it a vicious circle (I feel another thread coming out here....LoL)

I was not aware that this was open to all races...but if 2 people apply, one dark skinned and one light skinned...who would they pick??

I can't say, but I'm brown-skinned, and they certainly didn't give me any money for college. I got mine through plain old smarts.

I am glad and happy for you that you made your way thru college the way it should be done..I guess my original question was a hypothetical one!

Sorry, guess I should research a little more before I open my mouth..or..well...fingers..

Don't worry about it. I still can't do a proper ATS search.

yeah, I read the handbook myself with no luck! Ahh...life goes on eh??

I know that there are a bunch of dumb white people out there...but they hardly ever show that on the show..guess it's a brain wash to make the public see what the network wants them to see...pretty sad to exploit an entire race.

White Americans are the majority, so networks tend to skew in their direction (advertising dollars). The majority of white Americans, like everyone else, are not rich. Nobody wants to see their own crappy circumstances blared through the tv, if they have a choice, so advertisers listen and give them what they want. Apparently, they want a zillion seasons of Cops.

Great way to end the post! Too bad I only get 8 channels over here! But ahh...media is bad for you!!! I'm gonna go read my Weekly World News
Take care...great chatting with ya!

Duzey, first of all thank you. You made my day by saying those wonderful complements and words of advice. And yes, it is a definite girl-bonding moment.

But what you've been saying made me think a lot about what happened the last few days. I am grateful to you. It is good to make one step back and think of the higher purpose here. And, believe me, I've done a lot of contemplation about what I could have done better. I am still wondering these things as I make each post.

And along with HH, yourself and others here, I believe we can make this a positive experience. I really do. And please, do not stop talking! We need you here to add to the plethora of ideas generated in this thread.

And, again, you left me speechless with your words as well...along with a tear in my eye. What you've done is certainly what I mean by kindness. We need more of it in this world. And yes, after the last few days, we all need to catch a breath and be more humane to one another.

The first one to take that step should be me.

And Duzey, in a debate tournament, I hope not. Be just you and speak your mind.



[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
jsobecky, the Rev. Jesse Jackson is not the topic I was shooting for.

I wasn't addressing you. Mind your p's and q's, please.

So you support Jesse Jackson, the anti-semite who spits in White people's salads and refers to NYC as "Hymietown". Not surprising that you do.:shk:

HH was glad that the topic had returned to a discussion of the issues, and away from the muck of discussing members. People shared her feelings; she seems to be a smart lady, and I for one was looking forward to discussing issues. Then you came along and dragged it back down.

Go away, please.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Do you believe that current racial fissures in the US could have been set into motion, or exacerbated, by the "Globalist Elite*" in an effort to 'divide and conquer' the American population?

Without a doubt. I gave an example of the "southern strategy", but that was only one example. Before that, it has had many incarnations, including plantation owners.

It doesn't have a singular face. Today, it's politicians and religious extremists, but it shifts according to who holds the wealth. People won't give up what they have.

Even if you could identify the specific players, what could you do? Take Rupert Murdoch. Do you think he will give up his hold on the media? Why should he? That's not a contentious statement. Why should he share his power simply because someone else wishes to be a player?

[edit on 31-8-2006 by jsobecky]

Regarding the UNCF, I see no problem with it. As I mentioned to Duzey, one remedy for the First Nations would be to build universities for them. Education is the most powerful asset a person can have.

As far as outcry over a UCCF, well that's to be expected. So what? There's no law stating that I must donate dollars to the UNCF, or that I cannot donate them to a predominantly white college.

About this apology business, I was watching a program concerning reparations and this one guy, his name escapes me at the moment. Anyway he was running this organization which was aimed at persuading the government to award reparations to black Americans. The interviewer asked him, "...what about an apology"? He said, and I found this quite interesting, "I want and apology with substance", also known as reparations. Now that led me to question that if what you are after is acknowledgment, respect and understanding then why demand material things?

So I ask people here would an apology suffice?

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Do you believe that current racial fissures in the US could have been set into motion, or exacerbated, by the "Globalist Elite*" in an effort to 'divide and conquer' the American population?

I most definitely do! I believe that most of the divisions in the US today have been caused and nurtured by a small body of elite whose purpose is to make the United States into the Divided States. And sadly, it's working.

I used to think it was just political: Republicans vs Democrats. But it is now clear that it behooves this "elite" to have many factions, all pitted against one another in many small groups. Especially since recently, Democrats and Republicans have started to come together on some issues and form opinions against the elite who would divide us in the first place!

Now, there are race “wars”, and immigration fears (and we wonder why the government won’t close the borders? Because it serves their “division” goals!), gay vs straight (they lead us to think that straight marriage is somehow threatened by gay marriage), evolution vs intelligent design, science vs religion (stem cell research), free speech vs ‘tempered’ behavior, religion “wars”… It goes on and on!

“Pick a side”! is their mantra. Divide and conquer is their game…

And it’s working like a charm so far. People can barely talk to each other without taking a side on one of these sensitive issues and feeling a sense of division in their relationship with their fellow countrymen.

Who is it? I think it’s somewhere behind the government. I agree that the media plays a part, and the government plays a part, but I think ultimately, it’s a global-level elite as denythestatusquo suggests that is behind it all. I’d love to say, “George Bush is the Divider, not the Decider”, but he’s a puppet in this scheme just as we all are.

Originally quoted by jsobecky

So you support Jesse Jackson, the anti-semite who spits in White people's salads and refers to NYC as "Hymietown". Not surprising that you do.

HH was glad that the topic had returned to a discussion of the issues, and away from the muck of discussing members. People shared her feelings; she seems to be a smart lady, and I for one was looking forward to discussing issues. Then you came along and dragged it back down.

Go away, please.

Are you drunk? This is my thread. And you said that I cannot tell you where you can or cannot post. You cannot do the same to me either.

And about Jesse Jackson, I never said that I did. So, shame on you for trying to make this personal and trying to derail the thread. I just thought you'd agree with Mr. Buchanan because he shared many of your values.

Yes, Harlem Hottie is rather erudite, well-spoken, and has a lovely personality. And I am glad that she did put the conversation into perspective. I look forward to more of her words and observances on the thread.

But, it's unfortunate that you are here. But there's nothing I can do about it. I'm not staff. Or a mod. Or a "facilitator".

Instead, I cling to indifference. And that's how it's going to be. You're simply not that important. It's not about maturity. And it's not about what you or I can or cannot say. You exist here. And I just have to tolerate it the best I can. It goes beyond personal feelings.

Yep. All I can do is just shrug my shoulders and move on.




[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Umm… can we stop this personal bickering? It's really nothing but a distraction.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Are you drunk? This is my thread. And like you said that I cannot tell you where you can or cannot post. You cannot do the same either to me either.

I don't drink or drug, thank you. Go enjoy your morning 40 with someone else.

And about Jesse Jackson, I never said that I did. So, shame on you for trying to make this personal. And trying to derail the thread. I just thought you'd agree with Mr. Buchanan because he shared many of your values.

Your childish, petulant post about Pat Buchanan is what derailed this thread. Or do you already forget saying this:

I thought you'd be proud. He's probably a man after your own heart. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there are other people like you who approve of his beliefs.

Come on. Admit it. Say you love Patrick Buchanan and his "wacky ideas".

There was absolutely no reason for you to say that, except to incite an argument. Don't try to weasel out of it. Grow up.

Instead, I cling to indifference. And that's how it's going to be. You're simply not that important.

And yesterday you were not going to address my posts. Same as your "hiatus" and your sickeningly sweet insincere apologetic u2u's.

West Point is right. I'm taking the high road. There's other people who will speak about Pat Buchanan other than you.

Thank you West Point. This is one time I will agree with you. Consider it done.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Thank you West Point. This is one time I will agree with you. Consider it done.

Terrific, and since I'd like to capitalize on this rare moment of agreement could you possibly answer my question above concerning reparations and an apology? Thanks.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Jesse Jackson, ..

www.judicialwatch.org...

Here's a copy of the legal papers from Judicial Watch. Jackson got himself in legal trouble this past January for combining race and shakedown techniques of corporations.

More -
www.judicialwatch.org...
www.judicialwatch.org...

Minority business' have to pay Jackson's 'trade bureau' fees
www.northcountrygazette.org...
...sounds like old fashioned mafia extortion to me ... Judicial Watch agrees.

... And then there was the 'this Bud's a dud' boycott of Bud beer he called for. He wanted black people to boycott Bud beer. When the company heard that they gave his Jackson's sons hard-to-get Bud distributorships. Suddenly the boycott went away. Yep. Extortion linked to race for personal gain.



[edit on 8/31/2006 by FlyersFan]