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What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

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posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
And about the Black privilege--why shouldn't our rage be legitimized? The things during Slavery, Jim Crow and the Civil Rights Era were pretty terrible if you think about it. Should African-Americans be rather happy and sing about it instead?


Sure IMO you have a right to be angry and upset about what has happened, or what is happening, however that does not give you the right to take that anger out on certain people and to mistreat others without consequence.


[edit on 30-8-2006 by WestPoint23]




posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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You are right. But then again, how would that explain the feelings and frustrations of people who have tried to express themselves about acts of racism only to see it denied and afforded to "delusion" in a constant pattern by different persons of the same persuasion at various times? Can you imagine how that must feel like to hear people openly say that they don't validate your experiences and don't care about them?

That's why there is a legitimate right to feel rage. And that rage is not directed at people, per se. It is toward the system for not doing the things that they should in righting the wrongs of unjustness.

And imagine how infuriated you might be if there were another group of people arguing against that social justice by calling it derogatory names: "quotas", "social handouts", "nonsense" and of course, my favorite, "it doesn't exist".

Just think how much more enraged you might be when someone of the same persuasion ridicules the issues which affect how you act, where you work, when you vote and where you go to school. Especially when they say, "All you are doing is whining about race. Just give up and live your life. Nothing will change."

Would you really be hopeless? Or would you fight to make things better? And if you are in a position in which how you act would hinge upon you being "accepted" or "isolated", what would you do if you wanted to get your point across? Would you be accomodating? Or would you speak your mind?

And what if someone labeled your thoughts and ruminances about your plight unjustifiably--even if you were trying to be accomdating, "Aggressive", "Bitter" and "Condescending". Would you not feel even more frustrated at trying to communicate your feelings about how you see society's wrongs?

Do you see why "rage" might be legitimized against the system?

I still believe that there is a hierarchy at stake about who affords the most care and concern in a given society. I've started a thread about the "hierarchy of suffering". It is very interesting to look at "who are the top five sufferers in history".

And then, one must ask themselves who has the right to feel rage and have their experiences legitimized and who doesn't.


[edit on 30-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 05:39 PM
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I just wanted everyone to read Mr. Buchanan's feelings about immigration and the "master race" and see what you think about it. How does that weigh in with our discussion about legitimized rage, the non appearance of white privilege, the appearance of black privilege and the ability not to feel guilt?


Buchanan Argues For Immigration Moratorium To Preserve White Dominance

In his new book, State of Emergency, Pat Buchanan argues for “an immediate moratorium on all immigration.” Why? To preserve the dominance of the white race in America. Buchanan explains on pg. 11:

America faces an existential crisis. If we do not get control of our borders, by 2050 Americans of European descent will be a minority in the nation their ancestors created and built. No nation has ever undergone so radical a demographic transformation and survived.

Indeed, Buchanan argues quite explicitly that only whites have the appropriate “genetic endowments” to keep America from collapsing. From pg. 164:

In 1994, Sam Francis, the syndicated columnist and editorial writer for the Washington Times…volunteered this thought:

“The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted by a different people.”

Had Francis said this of Chinese civilization and the Chinese people, it would have gone unnoted. But he was suggesting Western civilization was superior and that only Europeans could have created it. If Western peoples perish, as they are doing today, Francis was implying, we must expect our civilization to die with us. No one would deny that when the Carthaginians perished, Carthaginian civilization and culture perished. But by claiming the achievements of the West for Europeans, Francis had passed beyond the bounds of tolerance. He was summarily fired.


Do you think he is legitimizing white privilege and its tenets? Agree? Disagree?

Does he act like he feels any "guilt" over the past?

Do you consider this worse than "spitting in someone's salad or soup?" Or do you think Buchanan is legitimizing "white rage" against the system and against "divisiveness" via "diversity"? Who do you think he's directing these comments to? What do you think he is trying to say about a racial hierarchy?



[edit on 30-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
November, 1969 “Life” magazine interview - Jackson said that when he worked as a waiter in a Greenville, South Carolina hotel he spat into the soups and salads of White customers. “[Spitting into the food] gave me a psychological gratification,” Jackson said.

During his early years in the communist civil rights movement Jackson often repeated this story to audiences. A July 1972 New York “Times” article, quoted Jackson and said: “Jesse would spit into their soup or salad before he brought it to the table, and watch with enjoyment as Whites ate gobs of saliva as though it were, say, oil and vinegar dressing.”

From restaurant deviant to shakedown artist. It's amazing that people still look at this freak as a civil rights leader.:shk:



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Niteboy, I had read your story about what happened. That is terrible what occurred to you. I am very sorry that you had to feel that way. And I also would not know what to do in your situation if it were reversed.

But sometimes, you have to give it up to a higher being and let it go. And, after thinking about it, even when you feel frustration, you have to do the same thing. To learn to make peace of it is to talk it out. In the end, you did the right thing.

I would also say, to imagine that happening countless times to people of color. Would you understand why there is so much frustration on the part of Black people?

Apology or no apology, there has been a long pattern of feeling like you did for many, many years. It doesn't work too well for turning the tables. But, it does help to understand and make some sense out of it.


First off, thanks, though you have no reason to apologize, as I would leave no disparagement(sp) towards you or any other black person for the actions of one.

Secondly, and please don't take this the wrong way, because I don't want to come off as being nasty. I know it has happened countless times to blacks. I have given my thought many times before on this. I am not going to toot my own horn, but I promise you, I was the most open person about my family's history in the south, for my town. There were slave owners in my family way back. I was the kid with the social studies fair project on "whites today with slave owners in their family line." I was also the teen that fought with the family that moved into my neighborhood that "wasn't wanted" because they were black. I have made my peace with that. This man didn't know me, and that's sad. He made an knee-jerk opinion of me based on the color of my skin. Sure, he could have seen me as a possible klukker, but I never looked at him as a possible Black Panther.

I do not feel any "white guilt" for my life, nor do I feel the need to focus anymore than from outside the situation. The only thing I can now look at is that this was a life situation for him, and I happened to fall into the picture. That hopefully my reaction was not what he wanted, to give him the thought that I wasn't that bad of a guy. That's my hope for him, I leave him no animosity, as it wouldn't have helped him deal with his own prejudices.

I hope that gives you a better perspective of where I fall in. I never did anything to take up for a black person, or any person of any color for that matter, because of a guilt or a color. I did it because at the end of the day, when they crawl into their bed, they are a human just like me.

Hope I didn't come off as nasty in any of that.


*Edit - Forgot a very important addition.
*

[edit on 8/30/06 by niteboy82]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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My ideas...
I truthfully feel that the caucasian people are now a minority, and the second we try to express our views...we are shut down. Now, don't take me as a racist pig. I have friends from every nationality, Black, white, brown, grey, yellow..But it seems that the "white man" is now the opressed. I am all for anybody being able to express theit rights...but why is it that our staple rights are being changed for somebody else that just moved to the States? Why do we have to change for them? Who is now the opressor, and who is the opressed?

My facts to support my ideas...
Why is it that we have a "United Negro College Fund"? If we were to start a "United Caucasian College fund", would it fly? Or would it start another riot?
What about "BET" (Black Entertainment Television)...what if we had "CET" caucasion entertainment television....would it air?
Ever watch a episode of cops?? Who are 95% of the people arrested on this show?

Once again....I am NOT A RACIST...just pondering some ideas...



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 09:20 PM
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niteboy, what you said was not mean. It was truthful. I am sorry if you got the impression if I was being callous or mean to you. That was the furthest thing from my mind. In fact, what you said was very fair.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you deal with the fact that you actually have a relative that owned slaves in your family?

I could imagine the response is much different than, "I didn't have any relatives owning slaves."

So what you could have said? And how do you see race relations by actually having a member who owned slaves in the family?

Could you elaborate how you perceive these issues about race-relations, especially when being in the South?

P.S. I do not mean any disrespect for asking these questions. I hope that you were not offended by what I have asked or asking you right now.
I'm doing my best to listen to different perspectives and make sense of it.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 10:28 PM
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jsobecky, the Rev. Jesse Jackson is not the topic I was shooting for.

It was about Patrick Buchanan. After all, he might justify or not justify the views of white people who "feel that affirmative action" is nothing but a quota. Not to mention that they don't want any "illegals" coming across the borders". Furthermore, he doesn't feel any guilt over what has occurred to Blacks. His reasoning might fit in with some people here when they don't want to "feel guilt" over what has happened. He might especially appeal to a person who doesn't want to talk about race and therefore "wants it to die".

You can say what you want about Rev. Jackson, but he has never said anything like that in his long, but spotted career.

Patrick Buchanan is often considered a strong voice for people who feel "disenfranchised" by the moves toward diversity.

I thought that Mr. Buchanan might convey the type of "effective communication" that everyone can understand without repetition.

And heck, he might even be down your alley with your sheer impudence against all things Black. After all, Mr. Buchanan doesn't want to pay "reparations", he doesn't want affirmative action, he also feels that Black people are getting special treatment and of course, he feels that black people are "lesser than" Europeans.

You might even be pleased.

After all, he isn't speaking Swahili. He's speaking perfect English. Good, patriotic American English. In fact, he'd feel no qualms about using Tar Baby. Not in the least.

I thought you'd be proud. He's probably a man after your own heart. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there are other people like you who approve of his beliefs.

Come on. Admit it. Say you love Patrick Buchanan and his "wacky ideas".




[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by StretchUSAF
My ideas...
I truthfully feel that the caucasian people are now a minority, and the second we try to express our views...we are shut down. ..But it seems that the "white man" is now the opressed.

I have a few questions in response to your post.

Do you feel that the white man is now oppressed because he can't freely express his views?

By "his views," do you mean racist, sexist, or nationalist views? I'm not implying that you are any of those things, I'm asking because those are the only views that would be circumvented in today's society.

Please explain, because I think this is worth discussion.


...but why is it that our staple rights are being changed for somebody else that just moved to the States? Why do we have to change for them?

Are you talking about illegal immigrants, or immigrants in general?



Why is it that we have a "United Negro College Fund"? If we were to start a "United Caucasian College fund", would it fly?

I've heard a variant of this question before, I think on this thread. Wiki, my go-to source for initial investigation on any topic, says, "though the UNCF was originally set up [in 1944] to address funding inequities in educational resources for African Americans, UNCF administered scholarships are open to all ethnicities."

So, the UNCF started as a way to give disadvantaged people a means of escaping their fate. Most of those people were probably of color, but some were not. It does the same thing today. "As of 2005, the UNCF is helping approximately 65,000 students at over 900 colleges and universities. About 60% of these students are the first in their families to attend college, and 62% have annual family incomes of less than $25,000." (same article as above)

If we, as a country, count gang/drug violence and "black-on-black crime" as some of our major domestic concerns, then I think this organization does a good job of addressing a portion of that population, before they break the law.

Personally, I have my own issues with the UNCF. I've always been kind of 'miffed,' I guess (never used that word), that I didn't qualify, but I understand that there are people who don't have the opportunities I had.



What about "BET" (Black Entertainment Television)...what if we had "CET" caucasion entertainment television....would it air?

There's a whole thread about this. BET - Black Entertainment Television



Ever watch a episode of cops?? Who are 95% of the people arrested on this show?

I don't watch Cops, but based on what I've heard, they have their fair share of whites. I would guess that they choose neighborhoods with the least protections, poor blacks, whites, whomever. I can't imagine a rich person not calling their lawyer immediately if they were arrested by a cop tagging along a tv crew.

But, you may be onto something as well. Could it be that a disproportionate amount of blacks are poor, therefore disproportionately placing them in situations where you would expect to find poor people?



Once again....I am NOT A RACIST...just pondering some ideas...

I don't think you are. This is probably one of the best places to ask these kinds of questions because, one, you're not actually face-to-face, so if incendiary things are said, you can take a step back and think about it before you respond, and, two, you always have the right to ask for a source.


[edit on 30-8-2006 by HarlemHottie]

[edit on 30-8-2006 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Hello all,

1)What can we do to address race-relations?

2)How can racism be solved?

[edit on 8-8-2006 by ceci2006]


1) Who says we have to?

2) What is the problem?

I think you are taking advantage of a rare and probably trumped up incident to push a personal agenda. I don't see a lot of problems and what I really see is a lot of pushing of liberal agendas by the globalist elite.

There is no real need to 'mix everybody up' in the first place so why would there be problems?

[edit on 30-8-2006 by denythestatusquo]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
From restaurant deviant to shakedown artist. It's amazing that people still look at this freak as a civil rights leader.:shk:


No, they look at him as the guy who gets hostages back, sans the drama involved in rescuing Jessica Lynch.

Jesse Jackson Heads Diplomatic Mission to Retrieve Kidnapped Israeli Soldiers



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I don't see a lot of problems and what I really see is a lot of pushing of liberal agendas by the globalist elite.

I do see a lot of problems, in terms of race relations in the US, but I agree with you in some aspects. I believe that our 'race problem' is puched by an agenda. By delaying so long in comprehensively addressing the real historical faults of our country, the 'globalist elite' succeed in dividing the masses. Think about it. They would like for us to all be so embroiled in our racial issues that we miss what's going on right in front of our faces (the fruition of the NWO-Illuminati plan for world domination, or whatever it is this week).

So, we have the average white guy who feels like he's getting squeezed out by "the minorites."

And the average black guy who thinks that "white people" keep him down.

Ad nauseum.

OTOH, these are problems we must work out, before we travel halfway across the globe and try to tell other people how to deal with their ethnic minorites.

Thanks for adding a new perspective.



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 12:19 AM
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And thank you HH for saying that. That's what I meant by Middle Ground. We've got to get past the stereotypes and get toward some new understanding that does not involve pointing fingers.

Believe me. The last few days were rather eye-opening. I think we need to focus on now trying to find something we can live with together by introducing the key issues that "deal with these different values".

And I would not rule out a bigger agenda at stake here to pit us against each other so that the forces of greed hide their underhanded work. I mean look at the civil liberties that are being chipped away while people were fighting about immigration?

Never underestimate those who have a larger agenda and who hold the puppet strings.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie

Originally posted by StretchUSAF

[quote0 I have a few questions in response to your post.



Do you feel that the white man is now oppressed because he can't freely express his views?


Yes...I do feel that the white man is opressed due to the lack of freedom in expression of his views and or beliefs. Or maybe it's just bacause nobody will stand up and express his beliefs due to the sheer feeling of terror, that he might be caused harm.


By "his views," do you mean racist, sexist, or nationalist views? I'm not implying that you are any of those things, I'm asking because those are the only views that would be circumvented in today's society.


Please explain, because I think this is worth discussion.


...but why is it that our staple rights are being changed for somebody else that just moved to the States? Why do we have to change for them?


Are you talking about illegal immigrants, or immigrants in general?


I am referring to all immigrants that find it illegal to express the thoughts, when somebody immigrates to the U.S and says that it bothers them to put "In God we trust" on our money, or fraudulantly use welfare, social security benefits, and utilize jobs because they are "immigrants", is what ticks me off....



Why is it that we have a "United Negro College Fund"? If we were to start a "United Caucasian College fund", would it fly?


I was not aware that this was open to all races...but if 2 people apply, one dark skinned and one light skinned...who would they pick??



What about "BET" (Black Entertainment Television)...what if we had "CET" caucasion entertainment television....would it air?


There's a whole thread about this. [\quote]
Sorry, guess I should research a little more before I open my mouth..or..well...fingers..



Ever watch a episode of cops?? Who are 95% of the people arrested on this show?


I don't watch Cops, but based on what I've heard, they have their fair share of whites. I would guess that they choose neighborhoods with the least protections, poor blacks, whites, whomever. I can't imagine a rich person not calling their lawyer immediately if they were arrested by a cop tagging along a tv crew.

But, you may be onto something as well. Could it be that a disproportionate amount of blacks are poor, therefore disproportionately placing them in situations where you would expect to find poor people?


You are right, but the media only shows what they want the American public to see...I know that there are a bunch of dumb white people out there...but they hardly ever show that on the show..guess it's a brain wash to make the public see what the network wants them to see...pure entertainment, at the history of the black man's expense...pretty sad to exploit an entire race.



Once again....I am NOT A RACIST...just pondering some ideas...



I don't think you are. This is probably one of the best places to ask these kinds of questions because, one, you're not actually face-to-face, so if incendiary things are said, you can take a step back and think about it before you respond, and, two, you always have the right to ask for a source.


I appreciate the fact that you are not jumping down my throat for my expression of thought. And ATS is a great place to express thought without the fear of hurtful reprisal, getting shot, jumped, or stabbed. I would much rather speak of a subject form pure thought, one's own ideas, rather than from an outside source,,,thanks for the thoughts!!






[edit on 30-8-2006 by HarlemHottie]

[edit on 30-8-2006 by HarlemHottie] [/quote



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Ceci, if you don't mind, I'd like to conduct a mini-poll, right here in this thread.

Here is the initial question. I submit this to my fellow posters in the hope that we may have found some concensus, across racial lines.

I also encourage everyone to get involved. Tweak my question, or add one of your own. This could get interesting.

Do you believe that current racial fissures in the US could have been set into motion, or exacerbated, by the "Globalist Elite*" in an effort to 'divide and conquer' the American population?



If we could come to some agreement on this basic premise, we could start focusing upwards on the pyramid of power, as opposed to horizontally.



*"Global Elite" is in quotation marks because I used the exact words of denythestatusquo, whose post brought this all up. People may dispute whether the group is liberal, zionist, islamo-fascist, or jesuit. We can work that out later, hopefully, when people add their questions.



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
Ceci, if you don't mind, I'd like to conduct a mini-poll, right here in this thread.

Here is the initial question. I submit this to my fellow posters in the hope that we may have found some concensus, across racial lines.

I also encourage everyone to get involved. Tweak my question, or add one of your own. This could get interesting.

Do you believe that current racial fissures in the US could have been set into motion, or exacerbated, by the "Globalist Elite*" in an effort to 'divide and conquer' the American population?



If we could come to some agreement on this basic premise, we could start focusing upwards on the pyramid of power, as opposed to horizontally.



*"Global Elite" is in quotation marks because I used the exact words of denythestatusquo, whose post brought this all up. People may dispute whether the group is liberal, zionist, islamo-fascist, or jesuit. We can work that out later, hopefully, when people add their questions.


Personally, I feel that the media in mainstream has divided up the country. They have divided up life. As I have said many times before, the media only shows what they wnat the world to see. We see all these "news breaks" where the US military has done some atrocity, ie. Abu Gharib. But, hardly do we see the great things that we have done...ie. rescuing families, feeding to hungry in Iraq, providing relief effort, rebuilding schools, buildings, countries. The media focus' on the bad, more than the good...and why??? Because it gets ratings...us American's want to see destruction, pain, hurt, sorrow, death. Pretty sick...but let's face the truth...our children are getting bad...the hope for the future...looks grim. Anyway, back to the question...Somebody is trying to split up the populace of America...who...I am not totally sure...Media, Gov't officials, maybe even ourselves..



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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StretchUSAF,

I would like to ask if you read my post about Patrick Buchanan. He is an example of a white man who "isn't stifled". He certainly sounds oppressed, however. What do you think about his comments?

[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally quoted by HarlemHottie
A Positive Development???

Ceci, if you don't mind, I'd like to conduct a mini-poll, right here in this thread.

Here is the initial question. I submit this to my fellow posters in the hope that we may have found some concensus, across racial lines.

I also encourage everyone to get involved. Tweak my question, or add one of your own. This could get interesting.

Do you believe that current racial fissures in the US could have been set into motion, or exacerbated, by the "Globalist Elite*" in an effort to 'divide and conquer' the American population?

If we could come to some agreement on this basic premise, we could start focusing upwards on the pyramid of power, as opposed to horizontally.


Yes, please do. I would be interested about how people think about this. And you're right. It may lead to something towards who actually has the keys to power and how it works in terms of the issue at hand. Thank you for suggesting this. It is a wonderful idea.

Go right ahead. I don't know what else to add though. If I think of something, I will surely notify of you first and we'll try to work it in.


And for my answer, however, I would like to do some thinking about this issue. I will write my reply a little later when I have my ideas just right.

But for anyone else, by all means, take the bull by the horns!




[edit on 31-8-2006 by ceci2006]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 01:28 AM
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I missed a whole bunch here today, but there are so many things I want to touch on, and I just know I'm going to forget half of them by the time I'm done typing.

First, I checked out Canadian history and we did practice chattel slavery. Our slave population seems to have been pretty evenly split between Africans who were brought by the English and French and First Nations people who were given to the English and French as gifts by various First Nations they had alliances with. Slavery appears to have been outlawed around 65 years before the US.

That makes we wonder why we have such a marked difference between the two countries with race relations. I would say the obvious one is the number of people affected. We have a much smaller population and geography (slavery was pretty well limited to the Eastern half of the country).

My other guess is that by the US segregating the races, Canada was allowed to look like the 'good guy' by virtue of being one of the first to outlaw slavery and the underground railroad and not segregating. Yes? No? Maybe? Just a thought, anyways.

And then there is our traditional reserved and polite nature. I once asked a friend how Canada compared to the US in terms of racism towards blacks. I have been told that there is racism in Canada, but that we are much more subtle about it and you don't encounter it nearly as much.

He's the only black person I have ever discussed racism with before (until now
) and he's from a sunny island where they don't have this problem. He's just as confused by the whole thing as I am and wasn't able to offer a whole lot of insight.

I'm just trying to figure out why there is such a higher level of friction in the US as opposed to Canada.


Originally posted by jsobecky
Imo, these people are definitely entitled to government help. Partly because these instances happened in the recent past.

The living survivors of the residential schools are being compensated, but it's never going to make up for what happened. I only hope that this is only the beginning of the help they need. I honestly think that the government should be paying for therapy for these people and their families, on top of anything else they get. We're working on improving things with the First Nations, but it is going to take a long time. There is a lot of distrust on their side and you can't really blame them for that.

I do have to wonder at what we term the recent past when it comes to things such as reparations. The US outlawed slavery a long time ago, but the civil rights movement didn't really come to fruition until the 60's, right? (If not, please correct me). That's when we changed the rules about the First Nations. It still went on for a decade or two after that, but weren't there plenty of fights over integration in the US?

I honestly think that if there are still people alive who were affected by these laws, then it's not the distant past.

I also look at the problems you have in the US and I think 'That's us in 50 years if we don't do right by these people'. That worries me tremendously. How can a country compete and be a happy place if a huge part of your population feels like second-class citizens? Not to mention all the social problems it causes when you have a large group of people who feel completely disenfranchised.

Back to apologies, the only thing I can say is that they aren't for the one doing the apologizing. In my opinion, black people are certainly owed an apology for slavery by the government and better late than never. Putting it off isn't going to make it any easier. I guess it really comes down to would an apology be welcome?

Oh, and one another thing - how can we even begin to understand the enormous impact centuries of racism and discrimination will have on a group of people? I'm no social scientist or psychologist, but I would think that having all of your male role models emasculated for the past 300+ years would be kind of discouraging and cause some issue for a child. If I expand that to all the black families in the US, that's a whole lot of deeply-rooted issues that affect every aspect of their life.

To put it in really simple terms which are not meant to upset anyone and I hope they don't: These people are broken and our respective governments had a huge role to play in that. If we don't fix it, our children and their children will still be dealing with this and wondering why we didn't just own the problem when we had the chance. We don't have to take responsibility for being the direct cause of the problem, but we can certainly take responsiblity for trying to help solve it.

...

Ceci, I wanted to address your question about rage.

I can certainly understand the concept of rage. Believe it or not, I used to have a huge issues with that (it has taken a long time for me to be as calm as I am nowadays). I would lash out because I was frustrated and angry and goddamn it! I just wanted other people to hurt as much as I was hurting. If they weren't in that kind of pain, well, it was my job to give it to them.

Looking back, I can see how that rage hurt nobody but myself. People would avoid me because I was unpleasant to be around and it definitely affected my career in ways I still pay for almost 10 years later.

I can most definitely understand why and how a black person could become so angry and the rage would be justified. Unfortunately, that rage is never going to help improve things.
I have found through personal experience that it's really unproductive and you only end up hurting yourself, no matter how good it feels at the time.



[edit on 31-8-2006 by Duzey]

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Duzey]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by StretchUSAF
Yes...I do feel that the white man is opressed due to the lack of freedom in expression of his views and or beliefs.

Everybody is feeling oppressed right now. I explain later in this post.



I am referring to all immigrants that find it illegal to express the thoughts, when somebody immigrates to the U.S and says that it bothers them to put "In God we trust" on our money, or fraudulantly use welfare, social security benefits, and utilize jobs because they are "immigrants", is what ticks me off....

You're conflating a lot of different issues here, but I'm going to try to address each.

Illegal immigrants have not made any noise about 'In God We Trust,' as far as I know. I think that would be the atheists who, as citizens, feel that the separation between church and state should extend to our currency.

As to the fraudulant use of welfare and social security benefits, you're right to say that it's the illegal immigrants, but only kind of. Look at it this way: when the government doesn't want to give you money, they don't. Ask any citizen who's applied for Workers' Comp. They give you quite the run-around, and that's with legal documents.

I suspect that 'they' know just what they're doing. The US government saw the effects of the last illegal immigrant amnesty legislation we passed in the 1980's. Tons of new green cards, and exponentially more illegal aliens who put a drain on our social welfare and criminal justice sytems. By not immediately shutting down both of our borders, until new legislation is crafted, our government is complicit in whatever illegal aliens do once they get here.

I look at employers choosing illegal immigrants in much the same light. Our government must be complicit in this because, otherwise, they would have stopped it, or at least, dissuaded the trend through tax breaks and the usual economic levers.

Now, you've stated these issues as those belonging to white men. I would argue that many, many non-whites feel the same exact way. As I said in my last post, I offer the thesis that, perhaps, due to the interference of some "Globalist Elite," NONE of our views are accurately represented in the media, or by our own elected officials.

On a personal note, imagine my surprise when, as a new initiate to the world of global politics and conspiracy theory, I, a black, female, registered Democrat, sided with Republicans in the illegal immigrant debate. But I thought about it and realized that, of course I would side with them once in a while: if both parties are really in bed together, they probably just flip a coin to determine the party line on a potential political issue. IE, Um, I think this time you guys should play the role of "For the People." We got tails last time.



I was not aware that this was open to all races...but if 2 people apply, one dark skinned and one light skinned...who would they pick??

I can't say, but I'm brown-skinned, and they certainly didn't give me any money for college. I got mine through plain old smarts.



Sorry, guess I should research a little more before I open my mouth..or..well...fingers..

Don't worry about it. I still can't do a proper ATS search.



I know that there are a bunch of dumb white people out there...but they hardly ever show that on the show..guess it's a brain wash to make the public see what the network wants them to see...pretty sad to exploit an entire race.

White Americans are the majority, so networks tend to skew in their direction (advertising dollars). The majority of white Americans, like everyone else, are not rich. Nobody wants to see their own crappy circumstances blared through the tv, if they have a choice, so advertisers listen and give them what they want. Apparently, they want a zillion seasons of Cops.



I appreciate the fact that you are not jumping down my throat for my expression of thought...thanks for the thoughts!!

Anytime. It's always nice to meet someone new.


[edit on 31-8-2006 by HarlemHottie]



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