What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

And jsobecky, what nonsense were you talking about back there? Were you trying to stir any feelings of guilt? Because some posters on this thread don't want to "feel guilty" about racism.

I'm beginning to see the light about West Point's idea about "bringing up race". No need to make others aware about the suffering of some when no one feels anything about it, is that right?



[edit on 26-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
And jsobecky, what nonsense were you talking about back there? Were you trying to stir any feelings of guilt? Because some posters on this thread don't want to "feel guilty" about racism.




[edit on 26-8-2006 by ceci2006]

You're right - most people don't want to feel guilty about racism. And they are well justified in rejecting that guilt.

You have shown that racism rules your life. It is the essence of your being. And, failing to get others to validate those feelings, you have resorted to "guilt" as a last resort method.

You won't get what you want that way.

The nonsense I was referring to was the implication by you and HH that a Starbucks and high-priced theater tickets would not find an ideal market in South Central or Harlem because of the current populace in those areas. That may be true. But if I or another white person would have made the same assertions, you would have been quick to denounce us as racist.

And, had Magic Johnson decided to represent KFC instead of Starbucks, you would have called his efforts demeaning.

I'm beginning to see the light about West Point's idea about "bringing up race". No need to make others aware about the suffering of some when no one feels anything about it, is that right?

You don't do anything about it, except to talk about it. Want to change things? Turn off your PC and go into those neighborhoods and help people. I know that you think talking about is is an important first step, but we're past that point. Go do something constructive about it. Stop looking for everyone else to fix your problems. There is something inherently distasteful about someone who cries "Gimme gimme gimme. Reparations and apologies. I want I want I want."

Why should I feel guilty because racism and bigotry occur in the world? I don't practice it. Nor do I accept it when I see it. The only reason I can see for feeling guilty about it is if I had practiced it or condoned it in the past.

This seeming constant effort on the part of some to inflict some form of guilt for the actions of others on to me, or those near to me gets more than a mite wearisome as time goes on.

To be honest, this thread was never about inflicting guilt. However, this thread was about discussing how to solve racism. This conversation was also an attempt to discuss the matter of race-relations to get to a middle ground.

After thinking about it, I've learned a couple of things:

1)It takes a whole lot for people to feel anything in this day and age. And that is simply because of one's societal position. If one has benefitted from the virtues of a society, why would they want to put themselves out to recognize the sometimes underhanded and unfair nature of that privilege? Discovering the underside of the aspect of privilege would make it seem almost uncomfortable to be given such things. And then, it takes a conscience. There are plenty of those who don't want to feel anything because they would eventually have to sacrifice more than they would ever want. And those who do recognize and feel bad about receiving the privilege at hand, have to endure a constant struggle between right and wrong, fair or unfair.

That is why it is much easier to defend those privileges and keep them from others than to speak up against it and try to right the wrongs of the past.


2)Acknowledging the past does not mean feeling guilt. It means that one is conscious and aware of what has happened to other people than yourself. But if one does not even want to be aware of the fact that wrongs have been and continue to be committed, how are they even going to do anything to make things right in the first place?

You can hide privilege under a whole lot of things: working hard by the system while others are shut out of it; claiming there's no privilege to begin with even though the treatment is better; or, putting down those who expose this privilege and making sure your voice is the loudest one to drown out the protest.

Sadly, those that "don't want to acknowledge racism" and want to "let it die" rather hide behind of being blamed for "feeling guilty" when that isn't even the issue. Perhaps for the bearers of privilege, it is better to "let it die" in order to receive better treatment, pay and social ascension other than those who don't receive just and fair treatment in society.


3)When the tables are turned, the first thing to do is claim that the privilege doesn't exist and the system doesn't work--even when small kernels are tossed out to the disenfranchised in order to "make things fair". What is appalling is that people are so smug to claim that their "privilege" has betrayed them when such measures as affirmative action come along. So, in order to keep their privileges in tact, they push for such measures for equal opportunity to end.

And truthfully, the bearers of privilege do not really know what people who are disenfranchised by the system experience on a daily basis. It's not being "subservient" or embracing "victimhood". Those not afforded privilege are often treated badly by those who have taken advantage of those long, held assurances of better treatment. But it is ironic that "no one wants to recognize it". Therefore, the corruption goes on and in tact.


4)The most funny thing about acknowledging all these things is the quick attribution to "resentment" and "anger" at a particular race. What is ridiculous about this notion long held by the bearers of privilege is the fact that those who deconstruct the advantages of privilege are often slandered like this so that the feelings of unjustness are distanced and swept under the rug.

Acknowledging the pitfalls of privilege was never about resentment. It isn't about anger. It is just accepting reality.

But again, I've personally learned that "not feeling guilt" makes you feel a lot better even though you ignore the suffering of other people. And the sad thing is because I do have empathy, such a realisation does not sit well with me. It doesn't make me feel good that others are suffering at the hands of privileges centuries old with little or no recourse.

And it is also sad that to engage in a true deconstruction of the system, the balance is always tipped to the side that wants to "cover things up" so they can distance themselves from a redress of grievances as well as being safe with the fact that "nothing happened" at all.

How can one live with feeling "nothing happened" in terms of racism?

It's like denying the Holocaust didn't happen. But in the reasoning of those who "want to stop talking about race in order to let it die", that's exactly what they want to do.

So, the next likely logic for those who don't really want to deal with a hard situation as racism is to "deny that 3,000 people died in the WTC September 11th." I mean, let's forget it all happened. Of course, it would make the 9/11 widows mad, but who cares? We can go on and on about denying people a right to talk about their suffering as long as it doesn't hurt those not affected.

Yes, if we stop talking about 9/11,it will die. That's exactly the line of logic that people take when denying that "racism" exists" and don't want to discuss it. In their mind, maybe painful events like 9/11 would die a quiet death just like racism.

It's amazing how far this world has come.

Btw, jsobecky, I have helped people in "those neighborhoods" more than you have ever or will know. I've participated in many things including the ones I've already listed in previous posts in this thread.

What have you done except complain about "those people"?






[edit on 26-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
To be honest, this thread was never about inflicting guilt. However, this thread was about discussing how to solve racism. This conversation was also an attempt to discuss the matter of race-relations to get to a middle ground.

That may not have been the original intent, but you have persistently pushed White Guilt, White Privilege, the Dominant Culture, and other terminology to try to inflict guilt. You have also distinctly used the word guilt, and used the failure of people to accept guilt as a reason for racism.

And donwhite has gone so far as to equate it with original sin. Talk about unclear on the concept.:shk:

And then, it takes a conscience. There are plenty of those who don't want to feel anything because they would eventually have to sacrifice more than they would ever want. And those who do recognize and feel bad about receiving the privilege at hand, have to endure a constant struggle between right and wrong, fair or unfair.

You want people to analyze every little success they enjoy in terms of whether they unfairly received it because of White Privilege. And if they have, then they should - guess what - feel guilty about it!

But if one does not even want to be aware of the fact that wrongs have been and continue to be committed, how are they even going to do anything to make things right in the first place?

Noone is denying that it happened. But you want to wear it as a badge of honor while whites must wear it as an scarlet letter.

Nothing can be done about the past. Commiserating about it only helps to feed your ego.

You can hide privilege under a whole lot of things:

You make far too much of this supposed "privilege". It does not exist to the extent that you say it does. And you cannot prove it does, either. You use words like "facial expression" "tone of voice" "body language", etc., to supposedly validate that it exists. All subjective criteria, btw, and open to individual interpretation. Some people actively look for racism, and see it when in reality they are seeing the reflection in the mirror.

There is far, far, more "privilege" in the world of celebrities.

But again, I've personally learned that "not feeling guilt" makes you feel a lot better even though you ignore the suffering of other people. And the sad thing is because I do have empathy, such a realisation does not sit well with me. It doesn't make me feel good that others are suffering at the hands of privileges centuries old with little or no recourse.

For you to state that people are ignoring the suffering of others is practically libelous. Who are you to make such a blanket statement?

How can one live with feeling "nothing happened" in terms of racism?

It's like denying the Holocaust didn't happen. But in the reasoning of those who "want to stop talking about race in order to let it die", that's exactly what they want to do.

So, the next likely logic for those who don't really want to deal with a hard situation as racism is to "deny that 3,000 people died in the WTC September 11th."

Outrageous on so many levels that it is almost funny. But the most outrageous thing is that it is built on such a false premise. Who have you heard here say that "nothing happened"?

That's what makes your arguments so fallacious: your counterfeit premises. I, for one, will not accept them.

Btw, jsobecky, I have helped people in "those neighborhoods" more than you have ever or will know. I've participated in many things including the ones I've already listed in previous posts in this thread.

What have you done except complain about "those people"?

I gave at the office.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by jsobecky]

Constant Reader

Please ignore the following at the bottom of my last post:

[edit on 26-8-2006 by ceci2006]

ceci did not edit my post; that phrase was accidentally left over because it was at the far bottom of her post, which I was quoting. It slipped by me.

I could fix it, but I don't feel like wrestling with that horrendous editor right now. Maybe later.

Edit: I went ahead and fixed it. Never mind.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by jsobecky]

We will never "solve" racism. It's going to exist for as long as we all look different from each other, act differently from each other, speak different languages...the beat goes on.

You can combat it...resolve various episodes of it...but "solve" it, if only it were possible. Bigotry in all its forms will continue on, sometimes more, sometimes less, but unfortunately its always going to be with us. All we can do is walk a mile in someone elses shoes, or moccasins, or sandals...and maybe someday in the distant future, bigotry will be all but irradicated.

All the will intentioned talking in the world will do no good where the eradication of bigotry is concerned, as with the eradication of any other disease only actions will suffice.

I'm a pessimist...I don't see it happening. Too many people with differing belief systems...political ideals...yes, even skin color, and too many people who believe that their belief system...political ideals...and skin color make them superior to their neighbor. Sorry I've no constructive solutions to offer. All I can do is what I do daily, try to treat each and every person as they deserve.

Hmmm...maybe THAT is the solution. Not very original, but what the hey, if its good enough for the Rev. King, and Ghandi, it's certainly good enough for me.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by seagull]

[edit on 26-8-2006 by seagull]

Originally posted by jsobecky
That's what makes your arguments so fallacious: your counterfeit premises. I, for one, will not accept them.

I, for two, do not accept these manufactured premises. These threads are filled with false grounds such as this claim that someone said or feels that "nothing happened". I say prove it. It's a lie otherwise.

It has been suggested that people pay attention to "real racism" instead of making it up where it doesn't exist. Here's an example of real racism:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 26-8-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

And you call that "real racism"? I call that yet another example of a larger problem. But thank you for clearly understanding the differences when people are being discriminated against. And it does make a point about the corruption that "white privilege" affords those in the majority. The person posting that particular thread did a service.

However, isn't it interesting that you are waiting for all the evidence to come out before taking a stand? A wise choice. But of course, maybe UM_Gazz is right. Sweep it under the rug.

After all, this incident might be as "manufactured" and "fake" as all the others.

FYI, BH: I'm sorry that you felt that "racism" was manufactured in this thread. It isn't. It's just more of the cognitive dissonance that is going along. You go with what you know. But unfortunately, you put down what you don't understand. It just has to do with life experiences from all sides. Not just yours.



And dear, constant reader, continue to enjoy jsobecky's posts. Let his words demonstrate that there are others in society that do more to help than just "giving at the office" and "complaining about those people" while wishing such problems disappear overnight. But I suppose PollyAnna would have done the same thing.



There is still a conversation about race-relations and race going on here. But let's hope for new voices to join the thread and contribute how they think of the situation.

For others, who really want to understand the issue, please do contribute. If you are especially a poster of color, please do come on board and contribute your two cents to add to the diversity of voices about this problem. Hopefully, you might have a better suggestion to solving racism and improving race-relations.




[edit on 27-8-2006 by ceci2006]

If people want to see examples of REAL racism they need look no further than this thread. It's not the first anti-white thread Ceci has started up. Reverse racism? No such thing. White priveledge? Well if you ignore or the under priviledged white people in the world. Are they somehow less important than everone else that their existence can be denied? Sounds like more racism to me. I am NOT going to feel guilty of racism.. because I do not pratice it and won't be preached to about it by someone who DOES.

riley, unlike the others, I was waiting for you to put your two cents in because I knew you'd be like Toto pulling away the curtain.


But remember this: if I was so racist on another thread, why did I ask you to speak and you turned it down? And when you complained that "white people" and their experiences of "racism" were not being taken seriously, I requested that you have the floor. You turned down a golden opportunity to discuss the plight of white people experiencing racism.

And when you asked questions of me, I answered them in full.

But if we're throwing around who's a hypocrite and who isn't, you only have to look in the mirror.

Thanks for your contribution, though.

P.S. The floor is still open to talk about the plight of white people and racism. I would be the last to deny you that opportunity. But don't expect your detractors to roll over and lie down while you post your points. We're having a discussion here.

But I also request that you take the time to listen about the plight of people of color seriously in the same manner.

Then, we can truly talk about this situation instead of pointing fingers.





[edit on 26-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
riley, unlike the others, I was waiting for you to put your two cents in because I knew you'd be like Toto pulling away the curtain.

No need.. that curtain is transparent.

But remember this: if I was so racist on another thread,

Wow.. IF?! You were. Perhaps you should consider that next time you want to attack innocent people for not admitting to it.

why did I give you the chance to speak and you turned it down?

I spoke.. I was not waiting for 'the chance'.

And when you complained that "white people" and their experiences of "racism" were not being taken seriously, I gave you the floor.

I do not see racism confined to specific races. Biggots come in all colours.

But if we're throwing around who's a hypocrite and who isn't, you only have to look in the mirror.

Thanks for your contribution, though.

Really? Unlike yourself, I have not expressed racist sentiment about one peticular race. I have not expressed racist views and tried to hide them behind the pretence of trying to cure them. If you want to fix racism.. lead by example.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by riley]

Of course, "biggots" come in all colors. You are no exception to the rule. Your words betray your "biggotry".

And about fixing racism, I only brought up the inquiry. I didn't promise a solution.

But since you want it to be fixed, fire away. I'm all ears.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Of course, "biggots" come in all colors. You are no exception to the rule. Your words betray your "biggotry".

Which words are they? Looking.. no. I haven't said anything biggoted. Looking again.. nope. Nice try.

And about fixing racism, I only brought up the inquiry. I didn't promise a solution.

Indeed.. you bring up these 'inquiries' with some frequency and it's nearly always about the problem of 'white racists'. Care to talk about 'white priviledge' again? Care to talk about being denied service or followed by security guards in shopping centres? I've experience those and most of the things on that list you posted. I've also experienced other brands of discrimination. Ex. I enquired about a job in a cake shop and the woman said "Are you Greek?!" I went to a Kareoke bar with some friends recently and the price went from the listed 20$ to 200$.. and you already know of the more violent examples. I have other examples but I'm not willing to go tit for tat with it.. point is that Whites have no immunity from persecution.

But since you want it to be fixed, fire away. I'm all ears.

Whats the point? You seem to think that if an african experiences racism it's different from when a caucasion experiences it. That is racism. Perhaps if you addressed racism itself rather than holding other races solely responsible for it we may actually make some segway. You want to know why I'm not racist? I've been willing to learn about other cultures.. what about you? You have this delusion that all whites are priviledged when we are not. THAT is racist. There is no "US" and "THEM".. we are all human beings but if you keep categorising us by skin colour you will never be able to see passed it.

[edit on 27-8-2006 by riley]

It is quite alright for some posters on the board "to not accept" the arguments in this thread. It is what debate and discussion is all about.

There are also some "arguments" on this thread that I don't accept as well.

But there is one thing I do know. Racism is a very emotional topic. But no one wears it as a badge. However, it is an issue that people can embrace--even if others might find it distasteful.

To be fair, I'll just have to repeat one thing again and again so that people will understand where I am coming from:

1)Racism is racism. Anyone's experience of racism is not "more real" than another's.

2)One race does not hold all the cards when talking about racist acts. At the same time, one race is not entirely responsible for all the racist acts committed throughout the world.

3)Everyone has biases. Some who have a "low bar of tolerance" may think that these biases are racist. Others may have different criteria for racism. However, the others with a "low bar of tolerance" might not accept other forms of determining racism--whether it is defined from a dictionary or from another's personal theory.

4)All experiences are important. And people have the right to question them. But we're not human "lie detectors".


But yes, a change has happened between the "racism is taboo" thread and this one. I've begun to discover that perhaps since acts of racism are being judged by a very low bar, we're all racists here. No one is left out of the picture. We can point fingers at other people all we want to. We have all made biased statements.

I'd be the last to admit I have a clean slate. But, I've said this once and I'll say it again. Talking about race-relations and racism is not pretty. It has nothing to do with preaching or being seen as the "better person" in this discussion. Everyone has the potential to get pretty ugly on a topic like this.

I'm tired of the sweetness and niceties that had happened in my last thread because being kind and generous to some people just will not work. Politeness doesn't work. Diplomacy does not work.

Honesty does, however.

Yet, there is a definite social problem occurring here. And perhaps seagull is right. It will never be solved because we're too involved in pointing fingers instead of putting together a new criteria to hash this out.

Personally, I am going to take a step back and read on how "real racism" is done on this board. I thank BH for pointing out UM_Gazz's thread. I am going to watch how others "talk about real racism" and think about how to address these issues better. Perhaps UM_Gazz could give me some pointers how to discuss racism. I certainly hope he (or she) does. Consider it an open invitiation.

I'm not closing the door. And I am not shutting off the dialogue. But, I am going to try and read what others are thinking for a little bit and then try to contribute a little more later.

It's about time I learn from others on how they view this important matter. After all, the thread has legs now and it deserves more accomplished posters regarding this issue than myself.

I thank you all for hearing me out. But don't give up. Please continue to care about this issue and work to your best ability to get all of us to understand each other lot better.




[edit on 27-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally quoted by riley

Which words are they? Looking.. no. I haven't said anything biggoted. Looking again.. nope. Nice try.

Yes. I guess we all have a good hand at denial, don't we? Nice try in the effort of artful dodging. After all, we all can't have a clean slate, can we? This is an effort to be honest--instead of trying to play "root out the black racist".

Indeed.. you bring up these 'inquiries' with some frequency and it's nearly always about the problem of 'white racists'.

Really? With the same frequency, you like to accuse others of racism instead of hearing them out. Don't feel badly. You're not the only one around here.

Care to talk about 'white priviledge' again?

Sure. But if you didn't read the post above, I'm taking time off to see how others discuss "real racism" around here.

Care to talk about being denied service or followed by security guards in shopping centres?

Sure. But read the comment above.

I've experience those and most of the things on that list you posted. I've also experienced other brands of discrimination. Ex. I enquired about a job in a cake shop and the woman said "Are you Greek?!" I went to a Kareoke bar with some friends recently and the price went from the listed 20$ to 200$..

Which ones on my list of sixty five? Have you been thought of as a "hooker", "thief" or "drug dealer"? I apologize if you did.

Gee. Did the woman who asked you were Greek have that down as part of the job criteria?

Bars always raise prices. Unless, you were "cheated" out of your money by being lied to about the prices directly to your face.

Did you even read Peggy McIntosh's list?

you already know of the more violent examples. I have other examples but I'm not willing to go tit for tat with it.. point is that Whites have no immunity from persecution.

Yes, I do. And I am sorry they happened to you. No one should have to experience what you did. But of course, I'm kind of leery about speaking of your experiences any further. You might throw a fit about this again--in a similar way to the "race is taboo" thread.

And you are right. White people don't have an immunity from persecution. But neither does any other race. So why are you trying to make the experiences of white people more important than the rest of us? Um...because you care about it?

Whats the point? You seem to think that if an african experiences racism it's different from when a caucasion experiences it.

Because it is. And it is in a much more deeper way due to history, society and politics. That is the problem. The violence that some people of color have experienced in the days of segregation were heinous. They lost property. Some were burned. Others were hung or shot. And then to top it off, there were laws restricting their access to social institutions and freedoms that didn't get changed until forty-two years ago.

In America, my father and mother were part of the first generation to truly integrate into all social institutions. It is disturbing that people can't even take one generation before being "tired about race".

Perhaps if you addressed racism itself rather than holding other races solely responsible for it we may actually make some segway.

Really? Is that what you think? I never said that I held White people responsible for racism. But a lot of other posters accused me of it. Along with the "resentment" and the "anger".

So I ask, what makes your way a lot better than others?

You want to know why I'm not racist?

Frankly, no. Because you've made it a point to say so in each of my threads.

I've been willing to learn about other cultures.. what about you?

So have I. I didn't see you on the thread in which a Chinese scholar was asking to educate the rest of the posters on ATS about his country. I was there. donwhite was also there. And so were other people. And we all talked to him and asked questions about his country. His name was Earthlism, btw. He is a gracious and wonderful individual.

But if you like, we can spend time talking about Oktoberfest or Guy Fawkes day. Perhaps throw in a little of French culture as well. I especially like to talk about the history and culture of the Napoleanic Age, personally.

You have this delusion that all whites are priviledged when we are not.

I purposely posted articles and studies by white scholars studying white privilege because of this very reason.

It's no delusion when there is an entire branch of studies dedicated to it. Maybe those scholars are racist too in your opinion.

But, think what you want. I can't stop you.

There is no "US" and "THEM".. we are all human beings but if you keep categorising us by skin colour you will never be able to see passed it.

Yes, we all are human beings. But, the typification of skin color is past you and myself talking about it. It's a part of law, studies, politics and society. And until the powers that be get that one thing across to "right the wrongs" of the past, then nothing can move forward.

I have a request to make. In this attempt of trying to end "compartmentalizing" people into catogories, stop labeling people "Anti-white". Better yet, please stop talking about my using "African-American" racism. Because when you do, it shows you are just as culpable using those labels as much as any of us.

I believe you don't even practice what you preach yourself when trying to fight against "biggotry".

Don't feel bad. We all make mistakes. I admit mine. What about you?






[edit on 27-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
However, isn't it interesting that you are waiting for all the evidence to come out before taking a stand?

What are you talking about? Show me where I said that I'm waiting for all the evidence to come out before taking a stand. My stand in that thread is quite clear.

FYI, BH: I'm sorry that you felt that "racism" was manufactured in this thread.

I didn't say that either, but it's no surprise that you have put bogus words in my mouth once again. I was VERY CLEAR about what the false premises were, but you lied about it anyway. You didn't quote me, you just made something up. Made it sound like I said that racism was manufactured. That's a lie.

What was manufactured were your claims about other people in this thread. The following are just some of the premises that I'm saying YOU manufactured:

Originally posted by ceci2006
"don't want to acknowledge racism" and want to "let it die"
...
But it is ironic that "no one wants to recognize it".
...
you ignore the suffering of other people.
...
How can one live with feeling "nothing happened" in terms of racism?
...
"want to stop talking about race in order to let it die", that's exactly what they want to do.
...
denying that "racism" exists" and don't want to discuss it.

No one here has said nor indicated ANY of these things, you made them up entirely. Yet you put quotations around the words as if that makes it somehow more believable. You are a victim of these self-manufactured feelings and positions that YOU have placed on others. They are an illusion. But you believe them.

Sad.

Yes, it is very sad. But I know what I read.

Orginally quoted by Benevolent Heretic

Granted, we don't know the whole story and the kids may have chosen those as their assigned seat, but this story definitely requires investigation.

Yes, you did say that the story required investigation. I took that to mean that you were going to wait until the entire story came out. After all, you did answer a previous post by saying "if" it were true.

But, I am going to stop here because I know what you might say about "misconstruing your words".

No one here has said nor indicated ANY of these things, you made them up entirely. Yet you put quotations around the words as if that makes it somehow more believable. You are a victim of these self-manufactured feelings and positions that YOU have placed on others. They are an illusion. But you believe them.

I'm going to let the quotes speak for themselves. They offer the best proof against you.

quoted by RetinoidReceptor

By the way, I think a good start to stopping racism is to stop continously talking about it.

quoted by kleverone
What can we do to stop racisim? Stop talking about it. Racism is learned. Stop the discussion and it will die.

quoted by WolfofWar
The best solution to race issues is to stop bringing up race issues. Most of them are figments of peoples imaginations.

To be honest, I am going to take the high road today and refrain from what I think about you and your comments against me. This is for the better good of the thread because it has become too emotional already.

Just think of my hiatus from this thread for a while as a golden opportunity for you to speak your mind without dealing with "any more lies".

Now, I am going to read real examples of racism from "the experts" who speak of it better and more eloquently because I would like to find a more effective way to communicate these problems.

Use the time wisely and well. Do as thou wilt.








[edit on 27-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Yes, you did say that the story required investigation. I took that to mean that you were going to wait until the entire story came out. After all, you did answer a previous post by saying "if" it were true.

Yes, there's an investigation. I don't jump in to believe everything that's printed. Especially when the story said:

"I'm trying to get all this straight, and settled, so we can all move on," Easley said.
...
Two mothers, both black, sparked the investigation...

There is an investigation. But my stand is clear.

But, I am going to stop here because I know what you might say about "misconstruing your words".

Maybe you just left out a lot of my words that express my stand on this issue to make me look like "I'm waiting for evidence to take a stand" I am not. My stand is clear:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But the kids... ALL the kids... should have the CHOICE.
...
This story makes me sick!
...
this woman should be fired and not allowed to drive a bus or work with children again, IMO.
...
Assigning ALL the black children and ONLY the black children to the back 2 seats in the bus unless they chose them is a blatant act of racism.
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I totally agree she shouldn't be working with children.

Further:

I'm going to let the quotes speak for themselves. They offer the best proof against you.

NONE of the quotes you offered contained the phrases you put in quotes! Therefore the 'proof against me' doesn't exist.

Originally posted by ceci2006
"don't want to acknowledge racism"
"let it die"
"no one wants to recognize it".
you ignore the suffering of other people.
"nothing happened"
"want to stop talking about race in order to let it die"
denying that "racism" exists"

You have incorrectly interpreted people's thoughts and then put them in quotes as if they actually said these things! Yes! Let the quotes speak for themselves. They show that you are making this stuff up.

Ceci, just my opinion, but if you keep beating this dead horse over and over, its only going to make matters worse. The first thing to do is stop talking about it. Here anyway. Go start a club or an organization, put your energies there.
Like Jsobecky said more or less, log off your pc and take action in your community.

We are not trying to be mean, but its the only practical thing for you to do.

If i felt like you, i would be out there doing something constructive. There is racism and there always will be. I dont think any of the posters here are racists, they're just trying to make a point.
You live and breathe racism day in day out.
Be like me. I'm Hispanic and proud of it. It makes me interesting, different, and if someone doesnt like it (and some dont) i say the heck with those people.

I cant help feeling like you think your life is different and not worth a damn. THAT BOTHERS ME AND OTHERS.
Stop dwelling on these issues and enjoy life, for Gawwwds sakes, or do something about it.