What can we do to address race-relations and solve racism?

Thank you for the advice, DG. Especially BH should take note. You are just one more person who wants talking about race to die.

And there's just one more thing that seems to get lost in all the "lies" and "manufactured" stuff. To be very nice, I'll repeat it for the third time so that you and the rest get it: I have taken action in my community over the years.

Do you understand now, or do you want me to repeat it again?

--------------------


And no, BH, I am not making this stuff up. But, since people believe you more than I, then they'll take your word as gospel. They always do. Even when you are very wrong.

No harm, no foul. You've obviously won with your crusading spirit and low bar of tolerence. Enjoy your victory.

But I know what I wrote. And it was my opinion. And your post attacking mine surely didn't help matters get any better.

But I think DG's advice comes in handy. Let all the suffering die. Let's stop talking about it. 9/11. The Holocaust. The 2600 deaths of soldiers in Iraq. The deaths in Lebanon and Israel. Castro's persecutions. Racism. If we forget all of these acts of suffering, they'll disappear.

And yes, let's especially let "reverse racism" die. Then, we will not be able to talk about that either. And thank goodness, it will disappear along with regular old racism. Just think. Your pleas to get people to notice "racism against whites" will also die. So no one will be heard. Spectacular. Maybe denying all people the right to talk about their suffering will cause equality.

We'll just be a nation with a lot of pent up frustration and anger with no closure involved.

---------------------

BTW, DG, to be honest, I am taking your other piece of advice. That is why I am going on hiatus from this thread. I am going to stop talking about it for now and read about "real racism" from other insightful people on the board who are probably more successful here than I in talking this out.

I'll ask the mods and others who are interested, what real racism is. And I will see what they say. I'll especially ask their advice how to address questions like these to talk about the disparity of treatment in society without even mentioning the word "race". Of course, real scholars of ethnic studies would laugh at this, but unfortunately for this board this has to be done.

It seems very impossible, but with these demands to cease and desist concerning "labeling" (because it separates the races and encourages divisiveness) there must be a way to get through to people about understanding the complexities of the issue with out using any racial typification at all.

So in the end, it is time to stop talking about it and search for better answers to this problem silently, but assuredly by combing through the tracts of people who actually study this phenomena instead of pointing fingers and paying lipservice to it. Luckily for the people who are specialists in areas of race relations, they have contributed not only to the communities they study, but they also study them rigorously as well.

So, please, by all means continue the thread. I'll look in from time to time and see how things are going.

But now, I think it's time to see how people really treat race on this board other than myself. I'll be asking for advice and getting pointers--especially how to discuss issues with those who don't like to be taught.
















[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

I think you're right, dg. Time to put this puppy out of it's misery.

On the topic of racism...

Pretty much every "race" is at fault. Since we (as in humans) see differences from our own upbringing shown by people of a different race/religion, and we think those differences are "wrong," racism is an automatic.

It really all boils down to most people being ignorant, people that are unable to accept different outlooks on life and living (2 separate things.)

We will not see an end to racism, not for another 1000 years anyways, and we'll be long gone by that time.

Well then. It seems that jsobecky was a little bit premature. Thank you for your participation. And here's to hoping that there will be others that will discuss this along with you.


And DG, if you mean what you say about not talking about race, why did you post in UM_Gazz's thread about the nine children in the back of the bus? Is it do as I say not as I do?

Otherwise, I do live my life. I don't see my life as badly as you perceived it. And I honestly think the only thing wrong here is that some posters do not have the guts to really have a honest discussion about race and think about it intellectually. That's all. I'm sorry. They have no balls at all.



[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Ceci, i can see you stomping your feet as you go away....

You never listened to any of us, but yet you started the thread, and its you who considers it a monumental problem. :shk:

I'm not stomping my feet or pitching a tandrum. But thanks for the stigma, however. And I am determined that this thread goes along so that others will have a chance to discuss these issues.

And, no, it is not a monumental problem, dg. It has never been. I'm sorry you got that impression.

But truly, I am going to sit back and watch how "real racism" is done. I've been told that for three threads. And now, I'll be asking a different group of posters what they think it is.

But not any of the usual suspects on this thread. I've heard quite enough from them to last me a long time.



[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
And I honestly think the only thing wrong here is that some posters do not have the guts to really have a honest discussion about race and think about it intellectually. That's all. I'm sorry. They have no balls at all.

And I'm sorry to say, BH has the least for hitting below the belt.

Words escape me… I'm actually speechless over this. "…and think about it intellectually…", tell me, is accusing other members of being racist also part of that great intellectual thinking of yours? Sorry Ceci, but if you want to blame anyone because they "do not have the guts" to discuss this in a respectable and proper manner go look in the mirror. As for Benevolent Heretic.


[edit on 28-8-2006 by WestPoint23]

I'm not accusing anyone of being racist, West Point. So sorry. I think you've misunderstood--once again.

As for guts, you have none. You can only come back to help in the lynching. And while the person is being battered and hung, you sit there, watch and intimidate. And then celebrate the acts of the person who pulled the rope. That's the act of a true coward right there.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Ceci, come on! I was reading in this thread, because I thought that I would want to get involved in this. But look at everything in here, it's hard for someone to get involved without the fear of being called a racist, or it being inferred that they are racist when they absolutely aren't. I always make a point to read Benevolent Heretic's posts, because I like them, I never see anything racist about her posts. In fact, i have seen posts where people accused of racism were condemned by her, due to her obvious distaste for racism. Same goes for Westpoint23.

I would love to discuss this with you, because I think it could be an incredibly enlightening thread. I am not racist. I have a feeling though that if I get involved here, I will be called one. How are you helping foster a quality discussion if you're going to do this?

I'm more than willing to have a discussion with you. As I said, I think this would be great. Race relations will not be solved with instant reactionary posts. Calling people cowards is not solving race relations, either.

[edit on 8/28/06 by niteboy82]

The problem is, niteboy, I never called her racist. Not once in this entire thread. I've respected her greatly. I've told her so more than once. However, that doesn't stop the axe from being lodged in my back.

It is sad that your willingness to believe I did call her racist shows how quickly stigmas around here take place.

If you really want to know, Majic was the first to call me one. riley came later. I'm not racist and never been. It takes a lot for me to call someone a racist, if I did. I rarely do--unless there is a good reason.

Otherwise, I would be glad to have a discussion with you. In fact, I am gratified because I have asked for new voices to come in three posts. So please do contribute.

And if the act isn't cowardly, niteboy, what else could it be?



[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006 on 12-8-2006 at 02:05 AM (post id: 2410927)

However, I'm not surprised by your response. You are that type of person that plays lip service to not being racist and in the next breath put down Arabic people for being terrorists.

That was directed at me, and with respect to the Mod’s or other members I won’t speak for them but you've tossed around more then your share of accusations ceci, so "misconstruing"? Not at all.

Originally posted by ceci2006



And DG, if you mean what you say about not talking about race, why did you post in UM_Gazz's thread about the nine children in the back of the bus? Is it do as I say not as I do?

I cant have an opinion? I posted i thought it was terrible. What's that got to do with what we're talking about here?
Nobody is saying YOU cant have an opinion...

Here. I lit this candle for your peace of mind. Hope it helps

So what, West Point? You've already praised the lyncher and you've got the piece of the rope for a keepsake.

Be happy that you gave in to peer pressure and mob rule. Now please go off to throw sticks on the fire in another thread to burn another "unpatriotic" person at the stake.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally quoted by dgtempe
I cant have an opinion? I posted i thought it was terrible. What's that got to do with what we're talking about here?

Quite a lot. You were talking about a racial issue instead of letting it die. I'd call that hypocrisy.



[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006

Originally quoted by dgtempe
I cant have an opinion? I posted i thought it was terrible. What's that got to do with what we're talking about here?

Quite a lot. You were talking about a racial issue instead of letting it die. I'd call that hypocrisy



[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

You are really pissing me off, lady. I'm out of here and good luck to you.

Wait- that's what you want, right? To play with peoples heads?


WE were addressing YOUR problem here, not mine. I dont have one. I'm very comfortable with who i am. Thankyouverymuch.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by ceci2006
You've obviously won with your crusading spirit and low bar of tolerence. Enjoy your victory.

Ceci, I have no "crusade" and there is no victory. Until we can talk about racism with level heads and calm respectful, truthful, attitudes, we'll get nowhere but where we are right here.

As regards calling people racists, you called me "Miss Scarlett" in another thread. Sometimes you don't have to come out and say, "You're a racist" to call someone a racist. And like everyone, I have thoughts and judgments about race. I am not 'color-blind'. But I'm certainly no "Miss Scarlett". And I'm no racist.

Originally posted by ceci2006
They have no balls at all.

And I'm sorry to say, BH has the least for hitting below the belt.

Yeah, I have no balls at all. That's what everybody says about me!


Edit: And now I'm "The Lyncher"??? Please, this is getting pathetic.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

DG, I'm glad I'm pissing you off. Because it shows that when you give a piece of advice, you don't act contrary to it.

Because, it pisses me off when you come on here and give me "your advice" to stop talking about race. It especially pissed me off when you did contrary to the advice you gave.

So goodbye. Enjoy your day.

------

And Miss Scarlett, yes, it is a victory. I'm right. People will believe you even if you let horse feces fly out of your mouth. And what you truly said was that. Enjoy stomping in what you've said.

Now, it's time for me to go back into the slave quarters where I belong so I can peek out the window and see what "real racism" looks like.


[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
That is why I am going on hiatus from this thread. I am going to stop talking about it for now ....

so go already ...

Folks ... I am reminded of a very good bit of advice that is given on forums such as this ... DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. What has been done here is 17 pages of wasted bandwidth as people tried to discuss a viable subject only to be blasted, called names, and misquoted when the uneducatable author of this thread didn't like what was said or the facts that were given. Cross-thread STALKING and misrepresentation of dg was thrown in as well.

Use the 'ignore' function and/or 'Do Not Feed The Trolls'. It saves bandwidth.

BTW .. horse feces ?? Mods??




[edit on 8/28/2006 by FlyersFan]

Mods, come and get me. And maybe the thread will get back to its rightful discussion held by people who truly want to help race-relations along.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by ceci2006]

I've been following this thread since the beginning, but hadn't gotten the courage to post in it until now. It's been slightly distressing to me, because I really like both BH and Ceci.

My opinion is that race-relations are something we definitely need to talk about. If you don't talk about it, how are we going to ever going to improve things? People don't have to justify their feelings (that's why they're called feelings and not facts) but there are always reasons for them and that's what needs to be addressed - why people feel they are being discriminated against.

That's not to say that everything that is perceived as racist is. Sometimes when you are looking for something all the time, you will find it wherever you go. I suffer from depression and when I'm in a mood, I can perceive an insult and blame in the most innocent comment. Someone could say 'The weather sure is crappy today, isn't it?' and I'll be all like, 'What do you want me to do about it?', 'Of course it's crappy out, do I look like an idiot?' and 'Why don't people just leave me alone and stop bugging me about stuff?'.

Which is why, on the other thread, I reserved judgement and did some follow-up. My immediate reaction was that it was racist and a horrible thing to do to children. But I know that my own experiences affect my judgement in matters such as these and, in my opinion, it a very serious thing to call someone a racist and not something I do lightly.

I don't think race-relations will ever be all lovey-dovey hugs and hearts. I'm not that optimistic. What I do think is possible is for people to have empathy for the plight of others and how such a silly thing like a person's race can profoundly affect their life experiences. All races are affected by this.

There is a city called Richmond where I live and Chinese people are in the majority there. I have gone into stores and nobody would help me. They all pretended to not speak English (even though they could speak it when I walked in). I have been called a guailo (white devil) in restaurants where it was assumed that I spoke no Chinese and noticed that nobody in the restaurant seemed to care that the waiter had just insulted me because of my race.

I've also seen a friend and ex co-worker of mine called the Quarterback when he's not around. You know, because all black people play football. I had to ask for an explanation on that, too. When he was in town for business, we'd go out to a nice dinner on the old expense account. The restaurant is 3/4 empty and we're sitting in the back beside the door to the kitchen. Which was probably a blessing in disguise because I get cranky when people give me funny looks for daring to dine out in a posh restaurant with a black man.

I do think improving race-relations could use some compromises on both sides, and that's going to be a problem. In a broad, sweeping generalization (which I don't normally do) of Americans, they seem to value hard work, earning things based on your accomplishments and equal opportunity. Giving someone a hand up based on race seems to go against that.

On the other hand, I can see where Americans who are black are coming from on this one. If you are from a group of people that have been used, dehumanized and discriminated against for centuries, it's going to take you a lot longer than 40 years to recover. People who suffered from these things are still alive. The attitudes that made it possible are still alive. It is going to take time for black people to be full partners in the American dream. Just like it is going to take time for women to break through the glass ceiling in any numbers. The same goes for First Nations people whose communities are ravaged by alcholism and drug addiction.

Both sides need to give a little on this one in order for any real progress to be made.


edited to fix spelling


[edit on 28-8-2006 by Duzey]