The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

Originally posted by JefeElJefe
Yes, the $750 Billion in circulation I was referring to only refers to paper money, as "in circulation" would imply.

But this paper money is the only money that the fed makes interest on. This is the only money that the fed lends out.

You don't know what you are talking about. The Fed owns more than 40% of the national debt, that's $4 trillion. Interest on the money issued by the Federal Reserve is not where the international bankers make most of their money. The action is in stock market manipulation, foreign currency trade, world economies, wars. Actually, they are so beyond wealthy, it's not about money anymore. It's control of the world. What's great about all the gold to an Emporer if he has no control over people?

The fed is the only place where money is created out of nothing, the rest of banks lend out money that they own, borrow from individuals, borrow from other banks, or borrow from the fed

If you deposit $1000 with me (bank). I lend out $900 and keep $100 in the vault, but I still record your account with $1000. Have I not just create $900 out of thin air?

I won't bother to read the rest of your post. You don't know what you're talking about.


[edit on 6-10-2006 by tazadar]

You have voted yeahright for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Great quotes yeahright! Great post. Thanks!!

Actually, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the "fiat money" system...It's when it's used in combination with ursary & "fractional reserve banking" is when trouble starts happening. Trouble just gets worse when it becomes the only legal method allowed to pay off your debts. Remember what happened to the "percieved value" of gold when the Government made it illegal to pay debts? A massive selloff by the public who had gold & those who stored their gold in off-shore/foreign banks saw an instant gain of over 70% !!

If you fail to pay the ursary, they take your possessions...In short, they're using leverage with "fiat money" to sieze goods that actually have intrinsic value. Then they turn around & sell off your possessions for more fiat money & then count it as more fiat money to issue new loans. A viscious cycle that only expands itself, likes ripples on the surface of the water.

If you want something to be done about it, then go here, read the thread & then VOTE !!!

here's a quote from jefferson, and wilson.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

-Thomas Jefferson

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

-Woodrow Wilson a few years after having created the Federal Reserve and realizing his mistake


i think the above prove conlusively how in error our current banking system is.

Originally posted by optimus primal
-Woodrow Wilson a few years after having created the Federal Reserve and realizing his mistake

I think I read somewhere that it took him four years to fully understand how he'd signed us all into slavery...

But one of the major ways that the Fed increases the Gov debt is by offering to fund their silly little wars for profits that go to the Corps...

Plagiarism removed. Jefe is referring to this link:

www.politicalhobbyist.com...

[edit on 7-10-2006 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by tazadar
~~~~~~~~
You don't know what you are talking about. The Fed owns more than 40% of the national debt, that's $4 trillion. Interest on the money issued by the Federal Reserve is not where the international bankers make most of their money. The action is in stock market manipulation, foreign currency trade, world economies, wars. Actually, they are so beyond wealthy, it's not about money anymore. It's control of the world. What's great about all the gold to an Emporer if he has no control over people?

~~~~~~~~~~~
If you deposit $1000 with me (bank). I lend out $900 and keep $100 in the vault, but I still record your account with $1000. Have I not just create $900 out of thin air?

I won't bother to read the rest of your post. You don't know what you're talking about.

This argument is retarded. There is no creation of money here. There is a creation of credit and debt. The bank gave $900 of the $1000 it recieved as a loan to a third party. It pays interest to the depositor for the $1000, gets interest from the loanee for the $900 at a higher rate, and makes a profit as a middleman. As long as the bank has enough money to pay its depositors when they want to withdraw their money, there is nothing wrong here.

As long as a bank is sufficiently large, it will be able to pay any depositors who wish to withdraw their money on a given day. If too much money is withdrawn in a given period, thanks to our modern system, banks can borrow additional money from the federal reserve to pay out to those depositors. Now the bank won't make as much money, because they will usually have to pay a higher rate to the fed than to a depositor, but the world goes on.

This allows a depositor to recieve interest without the risk of loaning directly, so the bank is providing a service to both parties.

You, for some reason, think banks should only operate as safety deposit boxes. I don't get it.

Loans are incredibly useful, and I'm glad they exist. The only problem occurs when an entity is irresponsible with its budget and goes farther into debt than it can pay out(as our government is likely doing).

You can essentially ignore any interest our government pays to the federal reserve, because the federal reserve returns the majority of that money to the government, along with all of the interest on the money in circulation. I chose not to include that figure because its not important. The federal reserve only pays its stockholders a 6% dividend on the amount invested. These stockholders are all member banks. It has expenses in printing money and must save to increase its assets(such as what it holds in the national debt). After these considerations, all of the money goes back to the federal government.

The fed only holds about $1 trillion of the national debt. See here:
www.federalreserve.gov...


Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 7-10-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Federal Reserve myths exposed:
www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by JefeElJefe
This myth usually comes from a misunderstanding of what money is.

Original

I assume you're the original author of this? Otherwise you would of course have linked to the original article.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by Chris McGee]


Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 7-10-2006 by TheBandit795]

Sorry, I meant to include the link to the article as well as the quotation from it. I didn't mean to represent it as my original work as it was clearly taken from another source as the first sentence would lead you to believe.

This argument is retarded.

Jefe...just admit it...you are WAY out of your league on this one. I love how you use the Federal Reserve's website as a source of information. You really think you are going to find accurate figures and information there?

This is like asking a pedophile if he ever touched children....and he of course says, "NO." And then you would believe him....because the truth, IN YOUR MIND, comes directly from the source of the problem. So you would believe him just as you believe the FED's website tells all the truth and no lies.

I have some swamp land in Florida I can sell you real cheap Jefe...U2U me!!

Originally posted by JefeElJefe
This argument is retarded. There is no creation of money here. There is a creation of credit and debt.

When you use your credit card at Target to pay, are they accepting your credit or money?

Are you really confused or a troll? This is my last time in trying to converse with you since you are unaccepting. We have 10 pages of this thread and other threads. It seems you are not receptive to other people's rational inputs on the matter.

The bank gave $900 of the $1000 it recieved as a loan to a third party. It pays interest to the depositor for the $1000, gets interest from the loanee for the $900 at a higher rate, and makes a profit as a middleman. As long as the bank has enough money to pay its depositors when they want to withdraw their money, there is nothing wrong here.

Fractional reserve banking creates inflation. Also. Since, the banks create money out of thin air. Let say your mortgage. If you default, the banks get your house for cheap. If you manage to pay it, well you're basically a slave working to pay off a loan when the banks issued money out of nothing.

You, for some reason, think banks should only operate as safety deposit boxes. I don't get it.

No where did I say this and your implication is so off.

Loans are incredibly useful, and I'm glad they exist.

Let say I loan you my car for $100 a month. Would it not be great if I can magically clone my car infinitely out of thin air? A billion MyCars. I'll be rich. Money is a medium for exchange. It's imaginary, an idea, a bookkeeping entry. You can do that with money. You cannot do that with tangible items like a car.

I have no problem with loans. Unlike tangibles, there is no risk or equity lost with the current banking system. It's a system to swindle, to scam.


[edit on 9-10-2006 by tazadar]

Originally posted by tazadar
When you use your credit card at Target to pay, are they accepting your credit or money?

Are you really confused or a troll? This is my last time in trying to converse with you since you are unaccepting. We have 10 pages of this thread and other threads. It seems you are not receptive to other people's rational inputs on the matter.

Fractional reserve banking creates inflation. Also. Since, the banks create money out of thin air. Let say your mortgage. If you default, the banks get your house for cheap. If you manage to pay it, well you're basically a slave working to pay off a loan when the banks issued money out of nothing.

No where did I say this and your implication is so off.

Let say I loan you my car for $100 a month. Would it not be great if I can magically clone my car infinitely out of thin air? A billion MyCars. I'll be rich. Money is a medium for exchange. It's imaginary, an idea, a bookkeeping entry. You can do that with money. You cannot do that with tangible items like a car.

I have no problem with loans. Unlike tangibles, there is no risk or equity lost with the current banking system. It's a system to swindle, to scam.

What the hell does using a credit card at target even have to do with this? The credit card company owes Target money(around 98% of the bill), and you owe the credit card company money(100% of the bill). It creates an account payable for the individual and for the credit card company, and an accout recievable for the credit card company and Target. Some of the credit card company's money will go to Target at around the end of the month, cancelling out the credit card company's obligation to Target. You will pay your bill to the credit card company whenever its due, cancelling out your obligation to the credit card company. Nowhere in that process was there a creation of money. The credit card company gets about 2% of the transaction as revenue, but Target recieves 98% of its revenue and the 2% is a fee its willing to pay for a service.

If you default on a mortgage, thats your own damn fault. The bank is really just getting what its owed, based on the contract you signed with it in order to be able to buy a house in the first place. If you think a mortgage is a bad deal, then save your own money until you can buy a house on your own. Don't complain after the bank takes back the house it gave you the money to buy. Inflation is actually helping you(the loanee) and hurting the bank, because the money you pay back later will be worth less, so you are really getting a discount on your interest payments for whatever inflation was. Inflation hurts those with money, and helps those who owe money. So if anything, that aspect of the fiat system should really be helping the average american(in debt as you claim), while hurting the rich(including banks with lots of capital).

Intellectual experiment: A world where all cars are identical. Lets say a car bank opens up. 100 people deposit cars in the bank. The bank owns 100 of its own cars. Then the bank loans out 190 of the cars in its possession. If more than 10 people come back to the bank to withdraw their cars, the bank must purchase additional cars from another car bank, or a central car bank that manufactures cars(for a higher rate). Thats exactly what banks do, but with money. How is that creating additional cars? The only place in this process where cars are created is at the central bank. The fractional banking system doesn't create money, only the central bank does. There is no multiplication effect here due to the magic of fractional banking. Sorry.

I'm not going to be able to disprove your conspiracy theory. Its the type of thing that can only be proven correct.

Its like this: we could be debating the existence of god. I wouldn't be able to disprove the existence of god, even though there is pretty much no evidence to support god's existence. Meanwhile you wouldn't be able to prove god exists, unless he suddenly makes his existence known. This conspiracy theory, however improbable and baseless, could eventually prove true. It will never prove false though, because any reliable source could just be "part of the conspiracy".

That said, its much better to rely on what makes logical sense. Anyways, I don't care whethere or not you believe that there is a conspiracy, but you should at least make an effort to understand how the federal reserve system and how our modern banking system are supposed to work, before claiming conspiracy. You can claim that all banks are owned by the rothschilds, but I ask that you understand fractional reserve banking before you claim that fractional reserve banking creates money out of nothing. You can claim that the federal reserve is corrupt and stealing money, but at least study how the system works, so that you can see that the most that could be stolen in 2005 would be about $30 Billion, and not trillions.

I am not the one that is confused here. I feel like I'm surrounded by idiots.

I am not the one that is confused here. I feel like I'm surrounded by idiots.

You feel like you are surrounded by idiots? This is how you argue? It seems there are pages upon pages of information that back the topic of this thread....while YOU have come along at the end with information from the FED's website and want us to "Understand how it is SUPPOSED to work."

I don't care how anything is SUPPOSED to work Jefe. I care about how it DOES work. It has worked quite well to make the 300 or so private stockholders in the FED quite rich (and put a decent amount of money in the pockets of all the politicians and others that they own) while country after country goes bankrupt. While war after war gets millions of people killed for no reason other than to make the mega-rich even richer and more powerful....while millions of innocent people starve to death all over the world (when there is plenty of money to feed them all)....while millions of people are used as slave labor all over the world....

You have the nerve to say you feel like YOU are surrounded by idiots? We ALL disagree with YOU and that makes US the idiots? That's your argument? Is this how a non-idiot argues??

Yes, I want you to understand how its supposed to work, because you clearly don't. Until you can explain how the system is supposed to work, you clearly don't have enough of an understanding of the topic to have any theories about it. If you can't understand how something is supposed to work, you can't argue about whether it works that way or not.

I had plenty of substance to my posts, my entire argument was not "I feel like I am surrounded by idiots", that was one line.

Your post, on the other hand, lacks any substance at all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Removed personal attack

You have a U2U

[edit on 11-10-2006 by masqua]

Dude, you can't even spell extinguished.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please read this link about 1-liners

[edit on 11-10-2006 by masqua]

Yes, I want you to understand how its supposed to work, because you clearly don't.

Listen friend...I know how it is SUPPOSED to work...and I KNOW it doesn't work that way. There is a difference between how something is SUPPOSED to be and how it actually is. Why don't you do your homework before joining a debate. There are plenty of pages of information on here you can ignore or pay attention to.....your choice!

For example.....in this forum, we are all supposed to act like adults, not like children. You, however, choose to act like a child. You are not acting the way you are SUPPOSED to. You are not SUPPOSED to call people names...but chose to call me an IDIOT. I believe the mods owe you a warning for that....if not, so be it. You have to live with your childish behavior. Enjoy the life.

Your post, on the other hand, lacks any substance at all. I may not be surrounded by idiots, but you certainly are one.

This whole thread has plenty of substance. Check it out friend. Why am I an idiot by the way? Because I disagree with you? Is everyone that disagrees with you an idiot? This is how children think........

Dude, you can't even spell extinguished.

Thanks for the spelling lesson young feller. Now...can we get back to the topic of this thread? Or do you want to give me some more lessons in spelling and how to act like a child?

Ok EB... You say you want to do something about the Fed? Here's a chance to put your money where your mouth is.

I stumbled on this site recently that promises to terminate your debt using the laws to fight the legality of your debts and the Federal Banking System...

Federal Debt Relief System

Your debt termination relies on applying Federal Laws, U.S. Supreme Court decisions, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the Fair Credit Billing Act, the Uniform Commercial Code, the Truth in Lending Act, and numerous other banking and lending laws - to overcome the following banking practices...

Now, the question is... Does anyone have the cahones to stand up and fight the collection agencies, and possibly the Fed themselves in court? Are you willing to possibly go to jail (although they claim you shouldn't have to since the Fed system is illegal).

But the bigger question... If you try this and it works, you may have difficulty getting a loan or credit card again. Are you willing to live your life on cash alone? (This brings up my earlier observation that maybe it's not the Fed and bankers we should be upset at but ourselves for living beyond our means.)

BTW - I'm not advocating people try this. It's totally up to you. For those that do I wish you the best of luck.


[edit on 13-10-2006 by mecheng]

I stumbled on this site recently that promises to terminate your debt using the laws to fight the legality of your debts and the Federal Banking System...

We're kind of talking about 2 different things here. First of all, the only debt I have personally is my mortgage. I got out of the credit card trap a long time ago and have no use for them today. Everything I do is with money I have. If I don't have the money to buy something, I don't buy it.

I do agree that the powers that be want everyone on the planet in debt up to their elbows. I, as everyone on here from the US probably does, get a ridiculous amount of phone calls from mortgage companies everyday trying to take my home equity away from me. I hang up on them.

I read recently that the average American has a net worth of -$10,000. That's right...-$10,000. This is a pretty sad state of affairs. That amount is without considering any home mortgages.

I agree that the credit situation is a serious problem is this country and I'm sure around the world. Banks give out credit cards like candy knowing that most of the people getting them are going to buy more than they have the means to pay back....and they will get caught in the loop of never ending debt. They will end up paying interest rates around 26% because they get behind on payments and making minimum payments on these cards will never get the credit paid off in their own lifetimes.

It's sad and disgusting and anyone who is currently caught in this trap should certainly work within our legal system to get out of it...because their are ways to get out of it without filing for bankruptcy!!