The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If I don't have the money to buy something, I don't buy it.

Doesn't this really sum up the problem? Not many people have that level of discipline... to actually save for the big screen plasma TV instead of just throwing it on the credit card and bringing it home today.

I understand how the banks are lending money that really isn't really there. But if people would just save and buy vs. borrowing and buy wouldn't that solve the problem. If everyone spent within their means what difference would it be if we bought with paper or gold? It still buys whatever the market thinks its worth.

The problem I see is that people don't save. They want everything... now! And what happens is they end up in a continuous circle of debt (sadly, myself included). The problem is you can borrow so much that you only have money to pay off the interest and not the principle.

The best way to beat the system is to save and actually make money off interest. I know this may seem unreasonable but if you could save $1,000,000 and used that money to invest, at 8% the money you make would be $80,000 a year... by doing nothing!

This thread is a great place to start the road to recovery and beyond... The 5 Laws of Gold: (aka the conspiracy of the rich)

I still think the Fed is fundamentally wrong, but we don't have to be slaves to it. People need to take responsibility for their own problems and not just blame someone else like the Fed (not that anyone here is).

Originally posted by mecheng
Doesn't this really sum up the problem? Not many people have that level of discipline... to actually save for the big screen plasma TV instead of just throwing it on the credit card and bringing it home today.

There will always be financial irresponsible people, with or without the existence of a Federal Reserve-like entity. Personal financial responsibility is a different matter.

I understand how the banks are lending money that really isn't really there. But if people would just save and buy vs. borrowing and buy wouldn't that solve the problem.

People should live within their own means. There were financial irresponsible people before the existence of the Federal Reserve and people like that will continue to exist no matter what banking system. The problem isn't individual. The problem is imposed on the entire nation. Not all Americans are financially irresponsible, right?

A government that borrows with interest from private banks, when it can create its own interest-free money, is a government of idiots or thieves. There is no reason why government can issue money interest-free to have a Federal Reserve System. It's only benefits the private banks and the citizens are paying for no good reason. The money issued was no sweat off their backs since the money was issued out of nothing.

The best way to beat the system is to save and actually make money off interest. I know this may seem unreasonable but if you could save $1,000,000 and used that money to invest, at 8% the money you make would be $80,000 a year... by doing nothing!

The $1,000,000 you have to work for it, right? What if you didn't have to? You just write a $1,000,000 check and collect interest. That's what the banking cartel did with the creation of the Federal Reserve System. It's compounding interest (interest on interest).

This thread is a great place to start the road to recovery and beyond... The 5 Laws of Gold: (aka the conspiracy of the rich)

Your road to wealth is not what this thread is about. This thread isn't talking about rich people like Donald Trump, Bill Gates, or Mark Cuban. This thread is about the conspiracy of the banking cartel. It is a conspiracy, because they certainly did conspired to create a central bank, the Federal Reserve System, to issue money out of nothing and they collect usary as payment.

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good, makes the bill good, also. The difference between the bond and the bill is the bond lets money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20%, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who contribute directly in some useful way. It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people." - Thomas Edison, The New York Times, December 6, 1921
en.wikiquote.org...

Originally posted by tazadar
Your road to wealth is not what this thread is about. This thread isn't talking about rich people like Donald Trump, Bill Gates, or Mark Cuban. This thread is about the conspiracy of the banking cartel.

Thanks for setting me straight. I perceived the problems with personal and national debt as being somewhat inter-related in that your money, because of central banking, doesn't go as far as it once did causing you to borrow more. All I was suggesting was that by saving and letting interest help you, rather than hurt you, you could break the chains. I apologize if I have thrown this thread off topic.

As for the topic of this thread... what exactly do you suggest should be done about the Fed and how do you suggest it be done?

One thing that should end is income tax. About 35% of my income and my wife's goes to the FED through income tax. That's right..it goes to the FED not to the IRS. Many have discussed on here that income tax is really illegal based on the words of our Constitution here in the US.

Just think of how much help every citizen would get just by not having to pay income taxes? The large corporations have all kinds of loopholes to get out of paying taxes. They are the ones who should be paying it and that's how our Constitution words it....that coroporations should pay taxes, not individuals on their incomes.

Also, the mega-rich have all kinds of loopholes to get out of paying income taxes. We.....the other 99% don't have the luxury of such loopholes and, therefore, we are the ones being forced to pay back the debt to the FED. How does it make sense that 1% of the people on the planet make most of the money and pay the least amount of taxes...while the rest of us make peanuts in comparison and yet pay most of the taxes that go to the FED?

This is what needs to change. How? I don't know......I need to do more research.

Originally posted by mecheng
As for the topic of this thread... what exactly do you suggest should be done about the Fed and how do you suggest it be done?

I understand what you're talking about what individually you can do. Yes, one important thing you can free yourself from is by not getting into debt. However, you still live in this fractional reserve system and privatized central banking.

As mentioned by EB, we are paying for it income taxes. We also pay a hidden tax in the form of inflation, where your purchasing power gets lower and lower. With their control of the nation's money supply, they have control over our government. The power to inflate and contract the money supply, such as the Great Depression.

Like you and I, we were born into this bondage. What can we do. Half the battle is education. We have to educate others. If people don't know movements like We The People, then they'll buy into the accusations and media attacks of being conspiracy nuts. When in reality, the public is the ignorant one.

I'm not brave and try to go up against the IRS and banking cartel. For now, I stick with trying to inform others as much as I can.

Originally posted by tazadar
I'm not brave and try to go up against the IRS and banking cartel. For now, I stick with trying to inform others as much as I can.

EB & Taz...
In the book "Miracle on Main Street" that's the only way the author believes we can stop the Fed. As I stated in a previous post outlining the book...

We can not fight this through our Congressmen or Senators. It must be fought at a personal and local level by informing our friends, neighbors, relatives, and local and state officials about Article 1, Section 10. – Congress, by law, does not tell the states what shall be tender. The states, because of Article 1, Section 10 tell congress what legal tender shall be… gold and silver.

If you guys are interested in truly fighting this then I suggest picking up a copy of the book.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by mecheng]

Originally posted by mecheng
As for the topic of this thread... what exactly do you suggest should be done about the Fed and how do you suggest it be done?

For starters, try looking up the National Economic Security And Reformation Act (NESARA). They've got some pretty heavy goals on their agenda to correct the messes that the government got us into...Without even getting approval from their bosses, The People (& the Constitution), to do it!


[edit on 16-10-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
They've got some pretty heavy goals on their agenda to correct the messes that the government got us into.

Yeah, I'll say...

Removes US administration officials and all members of the US Congress from their positions due to their continuous unconstitutional actions. Bush, Cheney, Cabinet members, and all members of Congress are immediately removed from office by NESARA’s public announcement; specific law enforcement personnel shall physically remove Bush government officials from their offices.

This one sounds good to me...

As partial remedy for 90 years of government and banking fraud, NESARA requires zeroing out of credit card balances and bank debt relief be given to Americans

But seriously, perhaps a something this drastic is what it will take although I doubt anything will come of this.

Just for clarification, there's the NESARA that's the Dove of Oneness (or whatever she is) which is a scam. I believe that's the one referenced in the above link.

There is a legitimate NESARA (I believe) which can be found here. Pretty good stuff to review. Unfortunately, the Dove and her ilk have done quite a bit to poison this well and at this point, NESARA has a negative connotation among many people, and I used to be one of them. This is another one of those situations where there's a person (Dove) who couldn't be any more beneficial to THEM if she were actually on their payroll. And there's a conspiracy angle for you.

I know at some point, Lazarus the Long and I were discussing this, but now I can't find the thread. I was one of the ones under the assumption that NESARA=SCAM until LtL pointed out there is a legit group. It's just not Dove's.

Yeahright....you are correct. There is a bogus NESARA out there and a legitimate one. I was involved in the thread you mention where we were discussing the 2 of them. I will have to see if I can find the info on the real one.....

[edit on 17-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

I see your point about the scam artists using one of the NESARA's, but the real point should be to support it...Not with money, but political support (supportive discussion/suggestions, voting on issues, etc). Anybody using NESARA as a scam is bound to crumble without money, but the real NESARA would actually flourish.

Originally posted by tazadar

Originally posted by mecheng
Doesn't this really sum up the problem? Not many people have that level of discipline... to actually save for the big screen plasma TV instead of just throwing it on the credit card and bringing it home today.

There will always be financial irresponsible people, with or without the existence of a Federal Reserve-like entity. Personal financial responsibility is a different matter.

when it comes to property, there is no saving. that is because the housing market is not set by how much the average person can save, but instead how much they can borrow. I will never be able to save for a home, at least not one that is in the area of good jobs. and on top of that if i want a morgage, i will have to spend my downpayment on financing usless crap, or i will never get a credit rating.

tom goose,

It's a sad state that home prices are out of the reach for people that dream of owning their own homes. But, this isn't a problem of personal financial irresponsibility. When I was talking about financially irresponsible people, I was talking about people that live beyond their means, such as people shopping consumer goods by continually racking up credit card debts.

The percentage of homebuyers that cannot afford to purchase a home has increased over the decades. 40 years ago, one income earner, usually the father, can support a family. Today, it requires two income earners to survive. The American people are getting poorer and poorer. This problem is a burden levy on all citizens of this country. It's a banking system that slowly impoverishes the people.









[edit on 18-10-2006 by tazadar]

Originally posted by tazadar
40 years ago, one income earner, usually the father, can support a family. Today, it requires two income earners to survive. The American people are getting poorer and poorer. This problem is a burden levy on all citizens of this country. It's a banking system that slowly impoverishes the people.

That's exactly the problem. My parents can't believe that even though I make 4 times as much as my dad did that I have trouble making payments on my house.

My dad had an associates (2 yr) degree in engineering, mom stayed home and raised four boys, and we had a decent home on a lake.

Both my wife and myself have four year degrees and are both working, have two kids and have trouble staying out of debt... I couldn't even afford the taxes my parents pay on their lake home much less buy one.

I'm generalzing but money today doesn't go nearly as far as it once did and its sad that both parents have to work these days just to make ends meet. It sickens me that I have to throw my kids in day care just to put food on their table.

[edit on 18-10-2006 by mecheng]

Mecheng, you're absolutely right...Even your parents have been led to a line of thought where they can't understand what's really happened since you were still a kid. They've never had access to the internet, with all of its capabilities to search & learn.

I've found a few articles at Pushing Hamburger that describes the same thing you do:
The Dying American Dream, The Death of the Middle Class & Working Your Way to Poverty.

There's a few other articles there that describe how a "Two-Income Family" also leads to the disintegration of Family Values as well; It's simply because your kids aren't under parental supervision & can't learn the values that you want them to live by...How are your kids going to grow up?

The rest of the website is a pretty good look-see too...

[edit on 19-10-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Just bought 2 great books:

"Secrets of The Temple: How The Federal Reserve Runs The Country" - by William Greider and:

"Reclaiming Liberty" - by James Ronald Kennedy

The first is obvious...it dives into the topic of this thread...How the FED is running the United States and Reclaiming Liberty delves into that as well as many other topics regarding the mess this nation is in and what needs to be done to fix it.

I will read these books and post info as I get to some that I feel is noteworthy. I will dive into the first one listed first. It's a thick one...so will take a while, but I'll present info as I go

Peace!

DOJ Dismisses Felony Tax Prosecution

Here's a page I came across today.

www.citizensoftheamericanconstitution.org...

I'm sure someone else has came across it, too. I've scanned "quickly" through this thread and I didn't see that it was already posted, so enjoy!

There's quite a bit of info here. Any thoughts?

As well, here's a link to Aaron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism" which is available in full length low res. viewing. video.google.com...

You can also go here to purchase the dvd. freedomtofascism.com...



edit for added links

[edit on 10/22/2006 by Infoholic]

The headline for this thread is as follows:

The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

I know it's not necessarily "when" something will be done, but it's more "what" is going to be done, in my opinion.

The following external text is taken from my family's homepage forum. I moderate a politics thread, and my family has jokingly asked, "Is ***** (my name inserted there) going to start a discussion or just make a link farm?"

I had made a post with many many links to information regarding today's nation and political "scenery". So... here's my initial discussion.

As the beginning "discussion" thread, I would like to start with the federal reserve system. This topic has been discussed, researched, and investigated by many people.


The Federal Reserve is no more "Federal" than Federal Express!!


There, to this day, is absolutely no law that states the American worker in the private sector has to pay an apportioned or unapportioned tax on your hours worked.

In 1913, the Federal Reserve System was given authority by Congress (which Congress is the only body given authority by the Constitution) to coin money and regulate the value thereof. The 16th Amendment allegedly states you have to pay this Federal Income Tax. However, the 16th Amendment is; #1 UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and #2 ILLEGAL. The 16th Amendment was never ratified by Congress correctly.

"A direct tax must be apportioned." - United States Constitution

Here's the 16th Amendment.

Here's more on the 16th Amendment.

Here's information to rebut the claims that the 16th Amendment was ratified correctly. Go Here

Quote:
Article V of the U.S. Constitution specifies the ratification process, and requires 3/4 of the States to ratify any amendment proposed by Congress. There were 48 States in the American Union in 1913, meaning that affirmative action of 36 states was required for ratification. In February, 1913, Secretary of State Philander Knox issued a proclamation claiming that 38 states had ratified the amendment.

In 1984, William J. Benson began a research project, never before performed, to investigate the process of ratification of the 16th Amendment. After traveling to the capitols of the New England states, and reviewing the journals of the state legislative bodies, he saw that many states had not ratified the Amendment. Continuing his research at the National Archives in Washington, DC, Bill Benson discovered his Golden Key. This damning piece of evidence is a 16 page memorandum from the Solicitor of the Department of State, whose duty is the provision of legal opinions for the use of the Secretary of State. In this memorandum sent to the Secretary of State, the Solicitor of the Department of State lists the many errors he found in the ratification process!



Aaron Russo is the man who directed "Rude Awakening" and also produced such films as "Wise Guys", "Trading Places", and "The Rose... and has released a new video, "America, Freedom to Fascism", which questions the government as to why we are being forced to pay an unconstitutional and illegal tax on our hard earned wages.

Watch the 1hr 49min 28sec documentary.


My question to you is this:

If there is no government official of any type or branch that can physically provide undeniable proof of a Federal Income Tax, why would you continue to pay it? What are you going to do about it?



So, now our FIRST topic is open for discussion.
_________________
Father, I do not ask of you to take my loved ones away, but to keep them safe from the evil one. Please, grant me the strength to do what is right, and to take care of my loved ones today.

How is that for doing something about the Fed? It's not much, but I'm but only one man.

Edit: Just a note, the links I had posted on my family forum, did not follow to the post here. Sorry.

[edit on 10/22/2006 by Infoholic]

The links intended to be in the previous post are as follows:

definition of "private sector" = dictionary.reference.com...

definition of "apportioned" = dictionary.reference.com...

first link to 16th Amendment = www.law.cornell.edu...

second link to 16th Amendment = www.usconstitution.net...

information to rebut the claims that the 16th Amendment was ratified correctly = www.thelawthatneverwas.com...

link to personal identification means for Aaron Russo = www.imdb.com...

movie link directed by Aaron Russo = www.imdb.com...
movie links produced by Aaron Russo:
wise guys - www.imdb.com...
trading places - www.imdb.com...
the rose - www.imdb.com...

America: Freedom to Fascism link - video.google.com...


There is the information I began my forum post with. Sorry for the misses, ya know there is a 4000 character limit for posts here.

Originally posted by mecheng
All I was suggesting was that by saving and letting interest help you, rather than hurt you, you could break the chains.

BTW, collecting interest on a bank account helps the bank more than it helps you...With "fractional reserve banking" practices, they can loan out 90% of your money to someone else, charge them whatever interest on that loan & only fork about 3% back to your account. With increasing inflation & the rising cost of living, you're actually losing money by relying on your savings-interest. Why do you think the banks are so afraid of a massive "run on the banks?"...It's because they can't pay out that much money because they don't have it! The Government is legally bound to make sure the banks get the money, but then that money came out of your pocket in the first place...Through taxes! In reality, the National Debt is not what Citizens owe to the government...It's what the Government owes to the Citizens, even though they try hard to make you believe otherwise!
In short, you're only supporting the "debt-driven economy" more because it's your money being used as leverage to create more debt for someone else!

I've also been reading more at We the People Foundation...The whole thing about Income Taxes on the Private Sector is already up in contention to the Government. Specifically, check out the case called, "Schultz vs. the IRS." There's also three other contentions being put up in the face of Government at the same time. They also reference to Russo's video there too.