The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

I've been away from ATS for quite a long time & I've just found this thread...However, I'm going to try getting caught up as best I can.

A lot of info, weblinks & opinions in this thread, most of which I already knew about, but one thing I haven't seen in here so far is the weblink to NESARA. Just looking around there gives some example of what can be done to correct the whole Fed Res Scam. The biggest problem NESARA has is that you're not likely to hear any wide-ranging coverage of its existance, and that's a real shame, considering what they're trying to do. It's just that the "powers that be" (the corporates & banks who stand to lose the most if NESARA succeeds) don't want people to know about it.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I just wanted to get some info on the FED in regards to the possibility that it had something to do with the assassination of JFK. I didn't realize how screwed up this whole system is. JFK saw it and tried to put a stop to it. This certainly may be why he was killed.

Actually, JFK did put a stop to it, but the corporate puppet immediately following him recinded JFK's work before the public could learn about it. At least, that's the best I understand it.

Originally posted by Dae
To be honest I feel better for knowing why the world sucks, it aint becuase 'humans need to mature' its because we are slaves to this system.

It's my belief that, if we can fix the mess, we will have matured...At least a little bit. There are people trying to get us out of this "debt-driven economy"; NESARA I already mentioned; Other organizations like WE The People Foundation, who are trying to fix the whole Income Tax scam; also, Move On is trying to "Save the Internet" from Corporate-originated restrictions & censorship. It may be worth your while to check out some of these places.

Originally posted by Dae
You understand how 'our economy' grows right? Loans. Thats all, loans.

That's exactly how a debt-driven economy works and that's precisely the way it was engineered to work.

Originally posted by Toadmund
More money is owed to the banks than actually exists, so one must taketh away from paul (the homeless guy, the loan defaulter etc.) so that peter can actually pay off all his debts.

This is how it goes: The Fed Res authorizes the US Mint to make only enough money in circulation to cover the amount of loans issued by the banks. But the authorization for minting money should be coming from Congress (according to Constitution Section 8), but it's actually coming from a privately-owned corporation. The mere existance of the Fed Res is Unconstitutional & that's what NESARA is trying to fix. Back to the main point: Since the money to pay off the interest on all those loans (inclucing the loans given to the US Government!) doesn't even exist, somebody, somewhere is forced to default. The more defaults, the more assets with real value go into bank-hands to be sold off for more "fiat-money" to loan out again. The so-called "money" they use in this economy has even less value than corporate scrip; scrip at least has value based upon the stock values of the company using it--The "money" used in a debt-driven economy has no value whatsoever!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
There's no Democarcy in this country. Not when it is run by big money....and our own government is in the pockets of the people mentioned above (the scum that own and operate the FED!).

You're right...The US is much closer to a Corporate Facism than a Democracy; The basic control of the US Economy is supposed to be under control of Congress (But also consider that the Constitution requires a Republic form of Government. Then consider that all Fed Gov Office holders must make an Oath (or Affirmation) to "preserve, protect & defend the Constitution of the United States." Notice that the President is required to take the Oath in Article 2, Section 2 but Section 4, Article 6 requires the Oath to be taken by "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution." Therefore, any of the Federal Government who acts against the Constitution or perpetuates any act against the Constitution are committing Treason! The very existence of the Fed Res is Unconstitutional, but continues to be supported by the Government, on the whole.

Of course, according to the Constitution itself, this alone makes the whole Government subject to Impeachment & Prosecution...

Originally posted by Toadmund
We work for this employer, We work to flip burgers, we work to build things, we do all kinds of work for various employers.

Strange that you should phrase it this way...Perhaps a look at the website, Pushing Hamburger. Very interesting analogy.

Originally posted by Toadmund
What would it be like if the government itself controlled all the money, not for profit, and we actually owned the money collectively?

Actually, that's the way it's supposed to be, as I mentioned above about Constitution Section 8.

Originally posted by craig732
What can we do? Whatever it is... I'm in. I just don't know what it is we can do.

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
The only way to break the system is to stop paying taxes.

Well, that is one way; I mentioned WE The People Foundation before...The major project they have going on right now involves, "No Answers, No Taxes."
Another way is to get off the Debt-driven economy by going with NESARA.
Another way would be if the entire Nation just decided to go back to the "barter" or "pay with gold or silver" economy & just boycott the banks & corporations. Of course, such services like Utilities, Road maintenance & such still need to be kept; The Fed Government does have the Constitutional Power to appropriate those lands & services & maintain them itself or turn them over to the individual States to manage!
This comes from the Power to appropriate Public Lands for the purposes of fortifications for national defense & "other needful buldings" that are required for the Public. The current situation first got started when the Government first appropriated Public Lands & sold them to private corporations to provide these public needs! This has been going on since the Government first realized that they'd need roads to deliver mail through the first US Postal Service! Doing so was the first act of Treason committed by the Government because those lands were not theirs to begin with for selling to the corps! The Government could quite legally & Constitutionally re-appropriate those lands back again for either itself or the States to manage! However, this would only be feasible to work if this Nation got off the debt-driven economy first.
Helluva boycott, huh?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Talk about Capitalism massively OUT OF CONTROL!

Sadly, it's very much in control by the Corporations & above them, the banks. Just as "The Architect" from the second Matrix movie controls the Matrix itself, the economy is under control of the banks. The problem is that the Constitution requires the economy to be under the control of Congress, and by extension, the People.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I'm right there with you. What can the average person do? And what can we do that won't get us killed? Kennedy tried to get rid of the FED...that didn't work out too well for him....

JFK was merely one man working against the "powers that be"...There's no way they can do that to an entire nation working together! Why do you think that the (Corporate-controlled) media outlets keep dividing the populace in small groups by labeling them? You've got the "generation gap", the "racial minorities", "war of the sexes", etc, etc, ad nauseum. The reason for this is simple...Divide & conquer, because "They" know that they have no chance against a Public United.

Originally posted by Mujahid187
We must find a way to get the people together and inform and take political and if necessary physical action...Im tired of reading things on ATS and not doing anything about it >.

Sorry about another post so fast; I ran out of room & had to continue where I left off...

Originally posted by Dae
You know after we have fought the banks we gotta take the person status away from corporations, asap.

They aren't Citizens & never were...A Corporation is not a person, not a Citizen, and therefore has no vote. The problem is that Corporations invest a lot of money (fiat-money, of course) in lobbying the Government. A simple Bill introduced to Congress would make a lot of difference if it could get passed; Political Campaign money cannot come from any Corporation, because corporations are not voting citizens. If all 50 States band together to introduce it to Congress & millions of Citizens refuse to take "no" for an answer, how could the Government possibly ignore it? Besides, if the fight against the Banks wins, the Government simply can't refuse such a Bill!

Originally posted by tom goose
what to do? stop paying taxes? not unless you found an employer to hire you under those conditions.

There was an employer who refuse to perform Tax Withholding from employees & got slammed down in court for it. I'm not sure if the details can be found in either We The People Foundation or Move On, but it was found out that you are legally required to report you're income...But if I'm not mistaken (& you'd better check with a CPA or tax lawyer before you do it), you can always list "zero" under "Taxable Income" and get it all back. This doesn't work with any form of business...It's only for Individual Citizen Income Tax that this might work.

Originally posted by Mujahid187
Dae, im counting you in. You made me realize this problem is bigger than the United States, its a world wide problem.

Actually, when people refer to the United Nations trying to instutute a "New World Order" with itself at the top (okay, feel free to debate this, but that would be for other Topics & Threads), they've been finding the US Constitutional Republic to be their biggest stumbling block...But with literally millenia of experience from Secret Societies (Bush is a member of the Skull & Bones secret society, you know ) & "old money families" (Bush being included in this number; BTW, Little Bush in Office right now has been knighted by the Crown of England & now look at Constitution Section 9) in bringing down all of the other Nations & Empires that got on top, do you think it's merely coincidence that they were able to do it to the US in less than about two centuries? Do you think that if the US could get back into a solid economy based upon actual production & "supply & demand" ethics that the NWO would stand much of a chance?

It seems to me that the "Economics 101" that Excitable Boy, Astyanax & Dae have been arguing about are a part of the overall problem...Distracting as many people away from the truth as possible. You can see this in pretty much most forms of Education in the US...The one thing really missing in education is critical thinking; the ability to digest what is being taught & try to figure out (or really learn) why something works the way it does. Educational Institutions get a major amount of funding from...Who? You guessed it, the corporations & the Government. Of course, it would be easy for them to say that, "You will teach this & that, but if you teach the other thing, we'll pull your funding." So most education stems around learning names, dates, major events, etc...But fails to teach the most important thing, the causes of the events you're required to "memorize" to pass the tests. Of course, those who fund education aren't going to let the "masses" really learn anything about our world. Of course, they don't teach "critical thinking" so that you can really figure it out either...Just keep pushing those hamburgers & let the rest of the world sort itself out. As it's been stated very early in this thread, it is a worldwide problem.

Originally posted by mecheng
I'm an average guy. And the simple fact is that I hate this subject. I hate to even think about money. All I know about it is that I work my azz off and never seem to have enough, growing evermore in debt. The subject of economics is very difficult for my mind to absorb... it's too abstract... to many variables, causes and effects... terminology is difficult.

Here's someone who seems to understand what I mean about the "normal" education system and the lack of learning anything about "critical thinking"...I used to be that way for the first 40-something years of my life, then I woke up.

Now I ask these debaters how all of this "economics education" impacts on the Constitution & how much it's been violated by the Government & to the benefit of the banks & corporations throughout nearly all of it's 230-year history. I think that's the real reason why this thread should be in the Political Conspiracy topic instead of the PTS board.

Originally posted by mecheng
Perhaps because people, like me, are too ignorant, naive and consequently afraid to discuss it.

Don't feel too bad about that...It's the way that pretty much the whole of society has been gradually & insidiously brainwashed into thinking "everything's ok, except the truth we won't tell you." After all, I'd be willing to bet most, if not all, of us were like that until we stumbled onto websites like ATS.

As a bit of news, perhaps I should say something about how "corporate money" (Of course, the corps are controlled by the banks, just like everything else is nowadays) is seeking to control censorship on the internet...How the corps seek to have complete control about what you can (& cannot) access. Something can be done about it at the Move On website I mentioned & linked earlier. Let's try to keep "free speech" on the internet & sites like ATS open.

You have voted MidnightDStroyer for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Wow, awsome posts Midnight!

Id like to add this UK link (again I think) to this thread The Money Reform Party. I dont have too much to add at the moment, just wanted to to give my vote.

Where is the democracy when on a country of 300 mill people only 150 mill are registered to vote and from those only 50% do really vote, from those ~49,9% vote on one man who is elected by 35 mill people and that will try everything he can and know to do everything he wants or he doesn´t even know he wants...

who is this guy who rules a country of 300 mill and was elected by only 35 mill wich is a litle more than 10% of the total population, is this the form of democracy we want for us ?

...and when I say "us" I could be saying U.S.

for me this system is the real nest of the incompetence, you see, marketeers will elect mickey mouse or even the austrian

...and when I say austrian I can be thinking about california or germany

Voting has NOTHING to do with this problem...since the choices we have for candidates are all in the pockets of the Illuminati.....what change will come from voting? NONE!

And...the "Austrian" will never be president....not born in the United States....

But again...what difference does voting make? We have really one party in this country: Fascism...and it happens to have 2 faces: Republican and Democrat....but again, we really only have one party in this country and it doesn't matter what puppet we vote for...the strings are pulled by the same people: the money-mongers, the NWO....the Illuminati....the Cabals that run the banks that own the FED!

I'm going to check out this NESARA.........

Peace!

Originally posted by tazadar
With Leo Wanta case, it's the first time I hear of it. The story is probably true.

I don't know anymore. I've been following the story for awhile now and have been doing some research on Mr. Wanta and it looks to me like it's made up. It seems impossible to corroborate the 'facts'. But I plan on following the story still.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

Where is the democracy when on a country of 300 mill people only 150 mill are registered to vote and from those only 50% do really vote, from those ~49,9% vote on one man who is elected by 35 mill people and that will try everything he can and know to do everything he wants or he doesn´t even know he wants...

who is this guy who rules a country of 300 mill and was elected by only 35 mill wich is a litle more than 10% of the total population, is this the form of democracy we want for us ?

...and when I say "us" I could be saying U.S.

for me this system is the real nest of the incompetence, you see, marketeers will elect mickey mouse or even the austrian

...and when I say austrian I can be thinking about california or germany

Voting has NOTHING to do with this problem...since the choices we have for candidates are all in the pockets of the Illuminati.....what change will come from voting? NONE!

And...the "Austrian" will never be president....not born in the United States....

But again...what difference does voting make? We have really one party in this country: Fascism...and it happens to have 2 faces: Republican and Democrat....but again, we really only have one party in this country and it doesn't matter what puppet we vote for...the strings are pulled by the same people: the money-mongers, the NWO....the Illuminati....the Cabals that run the banks that own the FED!

I'm going to check out this NESARA.........

Peace!

Hi,

I know, there are no real choices, but I was talking about the system itself, it´s a system thal allows and encourages this type of situation.
It looks like it´s giving the people the oportunity to choose but in reality wathever the peoples choice is the old policy will be continued...

I was attacking the system where I think it is most vulnerabe - Legitimacy The system we have has none. its 10-15% choosing someone to rule over the remaining 80-90% and that is not correct under a democratic point of view.

As you know, winning elections it´s only a matter of marketing and money if "they" decide that Arnolds image is the best for the candidate role they change the law (besides, if I´m not wrong, he has double nationality, and thats one step closer...)

But keep going, your aproach is one of the possible ones, just don´t put too much faith on what others might be willing to do, even if they have the best intentions...


fred

Originally posted by Dae
Interesting huh, seems like Islamic banking doesnt cut it at the governmental level.

Yah, that's how they do it. They recruit people by pyschological profile. The characteristics they look for are if you're evil, greedy, and with no morals or ethnics. Then, they train you to be their minion, fund and promote you to government positions. Just like Bill Clinton. Got a Rhodes Scholarship. It's a front for recruitment. Cecil Rhodes was part of the Round Table along with Rothschild and rest of the banksters. The Round Table has since formed satellite fronts, like the Bilderberg Group, Trillaternal Commission, some others

Originally posted by Dae
If the FRB fails, or the US federal reserve note is severely deflated, what will Americans use for currency?

Federal Reserve Notes are 99% of legal tender currency in circulation. United States Notes are legal tender aswell and this comes from the US Treasury. United States Note is currency of the People, for the People. It's debt-free and interest-free.

JFK had the US Treasury issued $6 billion of United States Notes. I'm not sure of the amount, but United States Notes are in circulation in very small percentage. People that have it are holding on to it or destroyed in circulation.

There need not be a disruption to the economy. By the power of Congress, have the US Treasury issue more United States Notes to replace Federal Reserve Notes. Unfortunately, our representatives, most, aren't working for the People's interest. We have to wake more people up to protest and force Congress to the people's will.

Gold is nice, but if America somehow switches away from paper money, how fast will that happen? Also, where will the gold come from? Will we drop our deflated dollars and go dig in the hills?

Paper money need not be backed by gold or silver. The rest of the world still accept Federal Reserve Notes, because they have the faith in the United States and her People. Unknowingly to most Americans and the world, Federal Reserve Notes ARE NOT currency of the American People. Congress gave away that power to coin money, which is sanctioned by the People, to a private corporation.

Imagine if Congress give that power to you to print money and Americans have to accept it. You print it out of nothing, at 2 cents per $100 note. In addition to the $100 debt, people have to pay you interest. Nowadays, it's just numbers on computers. What a great business, if you can get it. You'll be loaded.

That's our current situation with this Federal Reserve System.

There really is no plan for a shift away from the Fed, so you should probably plan for it to be catastrophic if paper money fails altogether.

If the United States defaults, there will be much much scary things that I'm afraid of. They, the banksters, could issue new cashless currency. It will have RFID tracking, everything to know about you. The people will be forced to accept it. What will you choose, to starve you and your family or the cashless plastic card?

They will rank all of us and profile us. You are an obedient worker, you get 1000 credits. You a free thinker, a rebel, a troublemaker, you get 0 credit.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by tazadar]

Originally posted by mecheng

Originally posted by tazadar
With Leo Wanta case, it's the first time I hear of it. The story is probably true.

I don't know anymore. I've been following the story for awhile now and have been doing some research on Mr. Wanta and it looks to me like it's made up. It seems impossible to corroborate the 'facts'. But I plan on following the story still.

www.arcticbeacon.com...

jiacinto.dailykos.com...

tekgnosis.typepad.com...

CNN may not have confirmed this, but if they were at all interested they would have at least stood up a denied it. but to respond to this will only give it credibility.

The problem I had was that it seemed all the articles I found pointed back to the Arctic Beacon and Greg Szymanski or World Reports and Christopher Story. I could not corroborate them with outside sources. That doesn't mean it's not true but IMO it looks like a hoax.

BTW - I wrote Sen. Feingold to ask about Leo Wanta and he replied that he would forward my questions about the 'Wanta Plan' to the Federal Reserve. I haven't gotten response back yet.

Also, there's an ATS thread regarding the Wanta story at 27 Trillion Dollars owed to USA people. In it I gave some references to Wisconsin news articles related to his court hearings as well as links to Wisconsin court records.

When I heard NESARA stories on how farmers goes to court with Generals and Admirals, Navy Seals, Rangers to protect them. It's a joke for sure. I don't know who is behind NESARA. I'm not surprise if it's the banksters laughing at us trying to reclaim the country.

Leo Wanta story again is possibly a joke. It's a smokescreen. Mind-control. "See American people, you have conspiracy nuts. Who do you believe?" If the story is fake, it 's a huge concerted effort since the story is coming from lots of different sources. You might have 3 or 4 pranksters, but damn it's a joke they are putting a lot of work into. I can't imagine anyone doing that for a joke that's not even funny. I think it's all a smokescreen to keep the masses stupid, unaware, and under control.


[edit on 30-8-2006 by tazadar]

As you know, winning elections it´s only a matter of marketing and money if "they" decide that Arnolds image is the best for the candidate role they change the law (besides, if I´m not wrong, he has double nationality, and thats one step closer...)

Double nationality doesn't mean anything! You have to be BORN in the US to be elligible to be president. Will they ever change that law? I suppose it is possible, but unlikely. Ahhnold would certainly make a great puppet...but there are plenty more out there that were born here. Why not bring back Dan Quayle??

Or...how about that senator from Connecticut that got his butt kicked after 18 years on the job?? Lieberman...that's it. I can never remember his name...I'm sure he would make a most excellent puppet...and seeing as how he is in need of a job....sounds like a win win!! He could be the first Jewish president! The whole country can lose their minds over it like Kennedy being the first Catholic president.

Regarding NESARA....

Apparently a species of aliens called the Ashtar are helping to enforce the NESARA law the more i read the more i can see how much of a scam this is check out the Quatloos website it pretty much clears it up.

Aliens??

It appears there is a TON of bunk all over the internet regarding a bogus NESARA...but, there is also a legitimate NESARA being worked on?? Definitely worth a looky loo.......

some info on the supposed real deal here: nesara.org...

sadly....the SCAM side of the NESARA deal has turned NESARA into a joke...and has made it difficult for anyone to take it seriously. Probably disinformation created by the money-mongers, NWO, Illuminati...the Cabals of greedy scum bags that really run the world....

Although little more than a curiosity for a few years, the altered version of the NESARA story took on a life of its own and now grows throughout the world wide web much like a cancer. So influential is this alternate effort that many people have protested outside the World Court, and some people have paid thousands of dollars to advertise their version of NESARA on the side panels of advertising trucks in Washington, D.C.

Sadly, this disinformation campaign has reduced the credibility of Dr. Barnard’s efforts and today the word “NESARA” is an ill-received word at Congress. To this day Dr. Barnard’s NESARA proposal has yet to be introduced into Congress.

It hasn't even been "introduced" into Congress and probably never will thanks to all the crazies that turned it into a mockery.....or maybe not crazies...maybe done by the Illuminati as I mentioned above....

Let's remember: They have enough money to do ANYTHING!!

[edit on 30-8-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

answers.yahoo.com...

With the Federal Reserve Board illegally blocking The Wanta Plan , overseas financial sources are reporting today that U.S. authorities are preparing a plan to hi-jack the $4.5 trillion dollar settlement collecting dust in a Bank of America account In Richmond, Va.

This is the reason, sources say, President George W. Bush personally instructed the Fed to block the transfer of money, involving a vast sum of money earmarked for the U.S. Treasury, AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc. and former Ambassador Leo Wanta.

Again another article by Greg Szymanski. Sorry, but I think I'm going to withhold judgement until I start seeing some alternative sources.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
what change will come from voting? NONE!

Well...It's a pretty much foregone conclusion that the two primary parties are in corporate & bank pockets. However, if there's an Independent running & he seems to be financing his own campaign with no corporate doners, that could motivate some research to see if he's on the up-n-up.

And...the "Austrian" will never be president....not born in the United States....

Don't have to be a born-American. A naturalized Citizen is allowed to run for Office. Check the Constitution. However, being only a naturalized Citizen may lose him some votes from public opinion.

I'm going to check out this NESARA

Kudos!

Well, here's another loong one...

I ran across another source that admits what crimes against humanity (particularly; slavery) that banks perpetrate against everyone in the world. The source is from Pushing Hamburger and is quoted from Sir Josiah Stamp, former President of the Bank of England. His quote, at the website above, was found under the heading, “Don’t Bank On It”. The quote is as follows:

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin... Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again... Take this great power away from them, or if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit."

Of course, I welcome efforts for someone who can research the truth or denial of this quote.

If true, the mere implications are quite conclusive-Everyone who deals with banks are slaves of those banks. Through the use of “fiat money” & a debt-driven economy, the banks own your government, own your labor, own your property & everything you have. As of right now, they even own the lives, property & labor of your progeny for at least the next two generations and that's increasing even as you read this! Not just the USA either, because it’s the same banking system used worldwide!

What does this mean to the average US Citizen? How has the bank come to own your Government? Let’s take a look at the synergy between bankers, lawyers, politicians & government agencies. To begin with a bit of American History, the bankers, lawyers & corporations from England (as is detailed a bit better below) used the “fiat money” system to worm their way into buying up Public Lands from the Government to build & maintain a road system so that the US Mail Service (Fed Mail system is granted by Constitution) could deliver mail. This was only the beginning...Private corporations have since grabbed up more & more Public Lands with the same method.
The Government does have the Right to appropriate Public Lands to develop for Public purposes, but does not have the Right to turn those Lands over to any “private corporations" for any purpose! The Lands appropriated by the Government for such “needful purposes” should have either been developed & maintained by the Government itself or the individual States as necessary & the Constitution allows. So therefore, Public American Lands are illegally & Unconsititutionally owned by private (foreign) corporations & financed by the very same private (foreign) banks that use the “fiat money” & “debt-driven” economic system against us all! Now with the Government caught with insolvable debt (by borrowing from those same foreign banks), it’s literally true that the banks own the US Government & our Lands!
So the banks create money out of thin air, loan it to the corporations who use it to pay your wages/salary/whatever & buys lands to develop from a Government that has no Right to sell those lands. Banks also loan it to that same government who spends it on corporate interests & taxes it out of your earnings to pay for the loans they got from the bank. Banks also loan it to you while you spend it on corporate products & services at the same time. And it's all "fiat money" that has no value whatsoever. Throughout all of this, lawyers are the ones who are charged with making it all look legal.
Have trouble following that? I hope you did follow that, because that's the simplest way to explain it; there's a lot more to it, of course, but that's the bare bones. This scam has worked so well around the whole world that most people don't even see it happening...But since you're reading this now, you know! The more people that know this, the better the chance that it can be changed into an honest & ethical economic system. I also suggest that you think about learning some basics in Social Engineering...That's how "they" have kept most people from seeing through the wool tha'ts pulled over our eyes.

In more modern times, it shouldn’t be hard for you to find out (Remember that Google can be your friend!) about the BCCI bank scandal that involved Clark Clifford (lawyer), Jimmy Carter (politician). Also, the Watergate & Mena Airport scandals that involved William Clinton & others, including the CIA, FBI, Federal Reserve, FDIC & other scandals too numerous to mention. These & other scandals are directly responsible for the corruption of governments & the robbing of the people by the bankers & lawyers who wielded their “fiat money” & influence.

Want another example of how the US Constitution itself was corrupted? Using the Pushing Hamburger link posted above, you may find something very interesting under the heading “The Original Thirteenth Amendment”. It states how David Dodge (archival research expert) & Tom Dunn (former Baltimore police investigator) found something very intriguing at the Belfast Library on the coast of Maine...Essentially, they found evidence that the Thirteenth Amendment of the Constitution had been illegally omitted without due process & the altered Amendments spread into most modern copies! Further searching for another 7 years, they found other, older copies that still existed before the illegal omission took place, to confirm that what they had found was not a logically-explained anomaly.

Even more in the same article:

David Dodge discovered a book called "2 VA LAW" in the Library of Congress Law Library. According to Dodge, "This is an un-catalogued book in the rare book section that reveals a plan to overthrow the constitutional government by secret agreements engineered by the lawyers. That is one of the reasons why this amendment was ratified by Virginia and the notification was lost in the mail.' There is no public record that this book exists." That may sound surprising, but according to The Gazette (5/10/91), "the Library of Congress has 349,402 un-catalogued rare books and 13.9 million un-catalogued rare manuscripts." There may be secrets buried in that mass of documents even more astonishing than a missing Constitutional Amendment.

And then I remember that, within the last few years, a crook like Bill Gates (look at Microsuck for some evidence) was seeking to contract with the Government to re-organize & re-index the entire Government information structure. This is a case of one crook being hired to help cover up even more criminal evidence of even bigger crooks.

To continue, the US Founding Fathers had so feared that foreign influences would find a way to corrupt the new Nation that they specifically wrote the “Titles of Nobility & Honor” Amendment to further strengthen the Articles of Confederation (Article 6) & the Constitution (Article 1, Sections 9 & 10). (As a side note, I suggest that you look through US Founding Documents, to include the Magna Carta & the Articles of Confederation as well as the Constitution & its Amendments. You’re likely to find lots of modern-day violations of all of them)

What Dodge & Dunn had found were indications that the "missing" Amendment was never voided by any legal or Constitutional means, which means that the original Amendment would still be in effect as Constitutional Law.
Quoting the original Thirteenth Amendment:

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

By reading further in this section at the Pushing Hamburger website, you can also see what this “missing” Amendment would mean in America of today:

Moreover, after studying the Amendment's language and historical context, they (Dodge & Dunn) realized that the principal intent of this "missing" Thirteenth Amendment was to prohibit Attorneys of the Bar Associations from serving in government as an "elite" class, i.e., lawyers holding membership in a society with a charter that creates special privileges for the them. The Founders experience was that such men always have divided loyalties and conflict of interest.
No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and like the other; or he will honor one and despise the other.
You cannot serve God and mammon (wealth). - Matt 6:24
One who reads the law or acquires a degree in law by competition and examination is not banned.

..............Read on..................

................Still reading?..................

Historically, the British peerage system referred to knights as "Squires" and to those who bore the knight's shields as "Esquires". As lances, shields, and physical violence gave way to the more civilized means of theft, the pen grew mightier (and more profitable) than the sword, and the clever wielders of those pens (bankers and lawyers) came to hold titles of nobility. The most common title was "Esquire" (used, even today, by some lawyers)...
...In Colonial America, attorneys trained attorneys but most held no "title of nobility" or "honor". There was no requirement that one be a lawyer to hold the position of district attorney, attorney general, or judge; a citizen's "counsel of choice" was not restricted to a lawyer; there were no state or national bar associations. The only organization that certified lawyers was the International Bar Association (IBA), chartered by the King of England, headquartered in London, and closely associated with the international banking system. Lawyers admitted to the IBA received the rank "Esquire" -- a "title of nobility". "Esquire" was the principal title of nobility which the Thirteenth Amendment sought to prohibit from the United States. Why? Because the loyalty of "Esquire" lawyers was suspect...
...But the Constitution neglected to specify a penalty, so the prohibition was ignored, and agents of the monarchy continued to infiltrate and influence the government (as in the Jay Treaty and the US Bank charter incidents). Therefore, a "title of nobility" amendment that specified a penalty (loss of citizenship) was proposed in 1789, and again in 1810.

To somewhat quote from Shakespeare: "Kill the lawyers."--Indeed!
Another quote, I'm not sure of the original source: "After a revolution, the first ones up against the wall are usually lawyers."
Several other places elsewhere in this article mentions that Amendment 13 was legally ratified with the last vote from Virginia in 1819.

The meaning of the amendment is seen in its intent to prohibit persons having titles of nobility and loyalties to foreign governments and bankers from voting, holding public office, or using their skills to subvert the government...
...According to David Dodge, Tom Dunn, and Webster's Dictionary, the archaic definition of "honor" (as used when the Thirteenth Amendment was ratified) meant anyone "obtaining or having an advantage or privilege over another". A contemporary example of an "honor" granted to only a few Americans is the privilege of being a judge: Lawyers can be judges and exercise the attendant privileges and powers; non-lawyers cannot.
By prohibiting "honors", the missing Amendment prohibits any advantage or privilege that would grant some citizens an unequal opportunity to achieve or exercise political power. Therefore, the second meaning (intent) of the Thirteenth Amendment was to ensure political equality among all American citizens, by prohibiting anyone, even government officials, from claiming or exercising a special privilege or power (an "honor") over other citizens.
If this interpretation is correct, "honor" would be the key concept in the Thirteenth Amendment. Why? Because, while "titles of nobility" may no longer apply in today's political system, the concept of "honor" remains relevant. For example, anyone who had a specific "immunity" from lawsuits which were not afforded to all citizens, would be enjoying a separate privilege, an "honor", and would therefore forfeit his right to vote or hold public office. Think of the "immunities" from lawsuits that our judges, lawyers, politicians, and bureaucrats currently enjoy. As another example, think of all the "special interest" legislation our government passes: "special interests" are simply euphemisms for "special privileges" (honors).

Now ask yourself this...How many politicians in US Government positions today are also Attorneys of the Bar Association? How about those who enjoy the “Honors” that this missing Amendment prohibits? More than a simple “majority”, if my unresearched (because I haven’t yet looked it up) guess on this question is correct. It’s easy to see how such a ratified Amendment could create a criminal motivation to make sure it stays missing.

If it turns out that Dodge & Dunn actually did run across an illegally omitted Thirteenth Amendment, what would it mean to America?
It would mean that a lot of people in the current Government structure could be ousted from Office, lose their American Citizenship & could be deported! This would also include most of the “old money families” in high banking & corporate positions, because many of the current politicians do hold such interests besides holding Office! It would even include President Bush, who has been Knighted by the Crown of England!
Finally, the People would be allowed to get back to a Constitutional Republic form of Government & do it right by maintaining vigilance for their freedoms. Eventually, considering the amount of sheer drive & production (If most corporate interests who are currently "outsourcing" labor to foriegn countries were to fold in the process, more American-originated companies would then be forced to hire back Americans-A large increase in employment ratings would be sure to follow)
that the US can churn out under proper leadership (ie: people who act more like leaders than rulers), do you think the US could be a serious threat to the NWO itself?!
IMHO, the only answer would be not only, “yes”, but “HELL, YES!”
Of course, further research is encouraged...For the following reason only, if nothing else:

Bear in mind that Senator George Mitchell of Maine and the National Archives concede this Thirteenth Amendment was proposed by Congress in 1810. However, they explain that there were seventeen states when Congress proposed the "title of nobility" Amendment; that ratification required the support of thirteen states, but since only twelve states supported the Amendment, it was not ratified. The Government Printing Office agrees; it currently prints copies of the Constitution of the United States which include the "title of nobility" Amendment as proposed, but un-ratified.
Even if this Thirteenth Amendment were never ratified, even if Dodge and Dunn's research or reasoning is flawed or incomplete, it would still be an extraordinary story. Can you imagine, can you understand how close we came to having a political paradise, right here on Earth? Do you realize what an extraordinary gift our forebears tried to bequeath us? And how close we came? One vote. One state's vote.
The federal government concedes that twelve states voted to ratify this Amendment between 1810 and 1812. But they argue that ratification require thirteen states, so the Amendment lays stillborn in history, unratified for lack of a just one more state's support. One vote.

This article goes on with the research by Dodge & Dunn to indicate that the War of 1812 interrupted the process of ratification by State Voting. At the time, with 17 States in existence, 13 votes were needed to ratify. As their search for the State votes went on, it was discovered that 12 States voted “yea” & 4 States voted “nay”, with only the vote from Virginia being unaccounted...In other words, if the Virginia’s vote on this Amendment can be located (either “yea” or “nay”) in the records, this issue can be laid to rest.

David Dodge, however, says one more state did ratify, and he claims he has the evidence to prove it...
...However, on March 10, 1819, the Virginia legislature passed Act No. 280 (Virginia Archives of Richmond, "misc.' file, p. 299 for micro-film): "Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that there shall be published an edition of the Laws of this Commonwealth in which shall be contained the following matters, that is to say: the Constitution of the united States and the amendments thereto..." This act was the specific legislated instructions on what was, by law, to be included in the re-publication (a special edition) of the Virginia Civil Code. The Virginia Legislature had already agreed that all Acts were to go into effect on the same day -- the day that the Act to re-publish the Civil Code was enacted. Therefore, the Thirteenth Amendment's official date of ratification would be the date of re-publication of the Virginia Civil Code: March 12, 1819...
...There is question as to whether Virginia ever formally notified the Secretary of State that they had ratified this Thirteenth Amendment. Some have argued that because such notification was not received (or at least, not recorded), the Amendment was therefore not legally ratified. However, printing by a legislature is prima facie evidence of ratification. Further, there is no Constitutional requirement that the Secretary of State, or anyone else, be officially notified to complete the ratification process. The Constitution only requires that three- fourths of the states ratify for an Amendment to be added to the Constitution. If three-quarters of the states ratify, the Amendment is passed. Period...
...So far, David Dodge has identified eleven different states or territories that printed the Amendment in twenty separate publications over forty-one years. And more editions including this Thirteenth Amendment are sure to be discovered. Clearly, Dodge is onto something.

...........................Read on....................

..............Still with me?....................

And then comes the lie to try to cover this up:

In 1829, the following note appears on p. 23, Vol. 1 of the New York Revised Statutes:
"In the edition of the Laws of the U.S. before referred to, there is an amendment printed as article 13, prohibiting citizens from accepting titles of nobility or honor, or presents, offices, &c. from foreign nations. But, by a message of the president of the United States of the 4th of February, 1818, in answer to a resolution of the house of representatives, it appears that this amendment had been ratified only by 12 states, and therefore had not been adopted. See Vol. IV of the printed papers of the 1st session of the 15th congress, No. 76." In 1854, a similar note appeared in the Oregon Statutes. Both notes refer to the Laws of the United States, 1st vol. p. 73(or 74)...
...After several years of searching the Virginia state archive, Dodge made a crucial discovery: In Spring of 1991, he found a misplaced copy of the 1819 Virginia Civil Code which included the "missing" Thirteenth Amendment. Dodge notes that, curiously, "There is no public record that shows this book [the 1819 Virginia Civil Code] exists. It is not catalogued as a holding of the Library of Congress nor is it in the National Union Catalogue. Neither the state law library nor the law school in Portland were able to find any trace that this book exists in any of their computer programs."
(1) Dodge sent photo-copies of the 1819 Virginia Civil Code to Sen. Mitchell and Mr. Hartgrove, and explained that, "Under legislative construction, it is considered prima facie evidence that what is published as the official acts of the legislature are the official acts." By publishing the Amendment as ratified in an official publication, Virginia demonstrated: 1) that they knew they were the last state whose vote was necessary to ratify this Thirteenth Amendment; 2) that they had voted to ratify the Amendment; and 3) that they were publishing the Amendment in a special edition of their Civil Code as an official notice to the world that the Amendment had indeed been ratified.
Dodge concluded, "Unless there is competing evidence to the contrary, it must be held that the Constitution of the United States was officially amended to exclude from its body of citizens any who accepted or claimed a title of nobility or accepted any special favors. Foremost in this category of ex-citizens are bankers and lawyers."

...Which would certainly include most of today’s current Government Office Holders...
So it seems that the single most usable answer to root out modern corruption in politics is not to fight ‘em on their "turf"...Strip ‘em of Citizenship & Deport ‘em!

Personal Observation: Even if the Constitution itself does not mention any specific penalties that were detailed in the missing Amendment, the “Titles & Nobilities” clause in the Constitution itself (see the External Source below, quoted from the Constitution) does deliberately forbid Office Holders from having such privileges...

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.

Therefore, any such Office Holder who currently has such privileges (title of nobility, honor, emolument) can still be Impeached & then indicted for Treason, simply due to Breach of Oath to “preserve, defend & uphold the Constitution" & for the numerous breaches performed on the Constitution! The missing Amendment would merely add loss of Citizenship & all Citizen Rights to the other penalties that are otherwise designated in the main body of the Constitution! However, if the proof of ratification of the “missing” Amendment could be found, that would allow the USA to add loss of Citizenship & possible deportation to add icing on the cake!

It seems to me that such information like this may do well in the hands of organizations like We the People Foundation, Move On and other activist sites (I will be sending edited copies of this post to the two organizations mentioned)...As well as educating the general population of ATS through further research & discussion among members. At the very least, between ATS & real activist organizations, this is an opening for a lot of good researchers to sink their teeth into! Let’s see if we can find that last missing vote that may really did result in ratifying the “missing” Amendment 13!

As a final note: Dodge & Dunn would appreciate any additional research that locates Virginia’s official Certificate of Notification (Even though the Constitution does not designate that Virginia actually needs one) on this particular vote and/or additional copies of the Constitution that include the “missing” Amendment. The article itself includes a more detailed history of their research & findings, so they would appreciate any helpful evidence that they have not already included in that article. The article itself also details more on their research & discoveries, so it would be best to read that yourself so you don't waste too much time covering the same ground as they did.
Granted, all of this post came from the same source, the website Pushing Hamburger; however, there’s plenty of key words & phrases that the ATS community can use to check for more info at other sources. Even if you’re feeling dubious about this website as a source, looking through it may lead to paths for research that you may otherwise never considered.
The article, “The Original Thirteenth Amendment”, also includes a mailing address for sending such info, but I think ATS would also be open for the presentation & discussion of such materials (Mods, correct me if I’m wrong on this point & I’ll edit this post; my intent here is to leave the “activist activity” up to Dodge & Dunn while leaving the subject open at ATS for research & discussion only).

......................Ok, that's it for now...................

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Don't have to be a born-American. A naturalized Citizen is allowed to run for Office. Check the Constitution. However, being only a naturalized Citizen may lose him some votes from public opinion.

Great stuff, MD. Keep bangin'.

One thing though, Article II Section I of Constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen. In order for Arnold to become president, the Constitution would have to be amended.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. [url=http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1]>LINK

Originally posted by yeahright
One thing though, Article II Section I of Constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen.

My bad; I leaped before I looked. I must've got it confused with Offices other that the Presidency. You have a good eye for catchin' me, though!

MidnightDStoyer...great stuff. Excellent contribution to the thread. I'd give you a WATS if I had any left. I suppose I will have some available tomorrow...so I may have to throw one at you!

Peace!