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How to defend your self, on a budget.

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posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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haha, WOW!
talk about giving the limb that would help you use this rifle...both of them for that matter...Yes, indeed those would cost a pretty penny...Thanks though...any other places with CHEAPER, haha, but still at least somewhat reliable weapons?



P.S. DeusEx was and is an awesome game/RPG




posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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My namesake is one of the greatest shooters/RPGs EVER!

Well, try an SKS, from any place but China. Russians and Yugos are best. They're reliable and cheap. Plus, you won't get Garand Thumb.

DE



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 11:29 PM
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My computer sucks and my internet is too slow...Any chance you could produce some websites with this information?



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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world.guns.ru...

Information on the SKS...take my advice, stay the hell away from the Chinese versions.

www.gunbroker.com

You can find almost any weapon under the sun there. It's the ebay of shooty things.

DE



posted on Jul, 31 2006 @ 11:45 PM
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MUCHOS GRACIAS, MI AMIGO!
great weapons here!



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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Both of my SKS rifles are Yugoslavian. What I found intresting to me is the ease with which they take down. I had thought that they would be somewhat complex but not so.

Its been years since I have taken down the M16 rifle. This SKS is easier to me to disassemble than is the M16 series.

A much easier rifle in dissassembly to me is the Mini 14. Very easy. However for the moneys spent the SKS is a better overall value.

Weigh all this out for yourself ..to your satisfaction. UP to you ...but the informations are available.

THanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 01:59 PM
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hey orangetom, what are your thoughts about maybe a Russian Mausenauget(spelling?)? isn't that the Russin WW2 semi-automatic rifle? How about even a German K98?



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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The Mosin Nagant is a well made rifle in a potent caliber. Nothing wrong with the Russian 7.62x54mm catridge that it fires. The Rifle is also priced very well for this market. It is not a eye pleasing rifle but like the British Lee Enfield or type 99 Arisika rifles military rifles seldom are eye pleasers. They are strictly buisness. SAme with My SKS rifle ..strictly buisness..not alot of chrome and flash about them. But I can deal with simple ruggedness and practiciality. I am not really into thrills and frills.
THe 7.62x54mm cartridge for reloaders also offers a wide range of bullets in differing weights and styles..from soft point to full metal jacket to hollow point..also match grade bullets are becoming popular now days to get the last bit of long range performance from your rifle. The Mosen Nagant rifle is known as a respectable long range performer in capable hands.

THe German K98 is another well made rifle with a proven history just like the Mosen Nagant. The caliber if I recall correctly is 8mmx57mm length cartridge. 8mm works out to something like 32 caliber....verses 30 caliber in the Mosin Nagant. The ballastic performance of the K98 is close to the American 30.06. A very potent cartridge. Once again a more than suitable variety of bullets for those inclined to reload..powder selection too.
I had at one time considered buying one of those Yugoslavian versions of the K98 Mausers..from Mitchells Mausers. IT looked like a good deal but settled instead on the SKS rifle for other reasons.

Nothing wrong with your choice of either rifle. I dont know where you are located but one consideration of importance will be ammunition availablility for either rifle.
I can tell you for sure that around here locally ...the Russian 7.62x54mm ammunition is much more readily available. Not so with the 8mmx57mm for the German Mauser. For this ammunition in bulk I would have to special order through the mail and this is avialable as such in bulk from many sources.

I should also ask as to what for you intend these rifles. Defense, Hunting, target shooting etc etc. Both rifles will do well in all these roles...quite satisfactorily though for immediate home defense I would recommend a shotgun first as would many of the posters in this thread. Then..after a shotgun I would begin to think about a long gun.

Up to you though. Where you live would have alot of bearing on it too...city country etc etc..suburbs.

Nothing wrong with your basic premise here in a long gun though ..both rugged well made tools.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 12:32 AM
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What exact model of Mosin Nagant are you considering, the oridinal m/91 or m1944 carbine?
You should decide based on your needs, if you intend to carry it around for long periods i'd take the m/1944 if you want accuracy for long +300m shooting take the m/91.

The action of the MosinNagant is very reliable and rugged, it's easy to strip down and it has been used as a basis for some very accurate rifles (Finnish Tak-85 sniper for example)

There are plenty of aftermarket parts available for M/91 and most will fit all mosin models, with the exeption of Finnish Models since they've got slightly different sights.

Finnish modified Mosin Nagants are otherwise just about the best you can get (m/29, M/36, Tak-75 or Tak-85) (Record for most sniper by single soldier was made by one of these)

I'm currently planing to buy a m/91 with a sport stock

7.62x54R is allso readily available for just about any use, from MMG Armorpiercing rounds to deer hunting SAKO hammerheads. It's about on par with .308win in both power and diversity.

[edit on 2-8-2006 by northwolf]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 05:29 AM
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Here's my asymmetrical home security on a budget scenario: Place a 16 ounce plastic Solo drinking cup in the middle of the hallway that leads to your bedroom. Then when Mister Bad Guy is trying to walk towards the door like a sneaky ninja he will trip the cup over and it will make that loud empty cup sound as it smacks against the floor and wall. They come in a variety of colours to compliment your home decor (mine is blue but they do have yellow, red and green). Now, if Mister Bad Guy makes it past the Solo Drinking cup stage and somehow defeats the locked bedroom door take aim for his face with a "Abercrombie and Fitch " High Velocity rubberband gun and start shooting away. These puppies usually retail for about $100 USD. If anyone in here has ever been shot with one of these babies they know it leaves giant welts and hurt like a mother. If you get a few rounds off you can probably put his eye out and he will drop to the floor and cry like a little girl. That's what happened to me when my friend shot me within 2 and 1/2 meter range so I know from experience that this is the weapon of choice. Total cost of my defense budget: $127.95. Goodluck and godspeed.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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OrangeTom : Thanks a whole lot for all of that information. I would most likely use the Mosin Nagant right now, for target practice and such. Though while one of my biggest mottos is "Be Prepared" I would probably use it in the case of *insert worst cases scenario*. While I'm not too educated on guns, i'm pretty sure i understand what your saying. I know how to fire a gun, clean one, and such. Where I live, its mainly a mountainous place so in case of *insert worst case scenario* I would have a place in the mountains and just watch whats going on from up there. Shotgun wise, yes i definately agree on making that one for home protection. Any gun that shoots well, priced well, but may not look the best, is fine by me. I mean, who would want a pretty gun that doesn't work then one that is ugly and shoots the best? haha just a thought...Any possible chance you may know where I could find a well priced Mosin Nagant? Semi-Automatic and Single bolt-action as well...Thanks again


Northwolf : Since you live in Finland, I believe you know what your talking about (when it comes to all the Finnish variations/attachements for the Mosin Nagant). I will definately take those into consideration when buying my weapons as well. Thanks



[edit on 2-8-2006 by AllinTheMind89]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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You posted:

"who would want a pretty gun that doesn't work then one that is ugly and shoots the best? haha just a thought."

I agree totally. Ive been around alot of tools that are pretty and have pretty packaging. pretty salespeople etc etc. Not impressed at all with this scenerio.

I'll take usefullness and practicality every time especially when we are in this thread discussing your backside on the line.

Both the Mosin Nagant and the K98 types are bolt actions.

My preference on a budget in Semi autos is the SKS or the Ruger Mini Fourteen or Mini 30s. These can be afforded on a budget though the Mini 14s are moving up in price. THE AR 15 series are expensive and reliability compared to the other semi autos quoted is not as good unless you take very good care of them. Accuracy is better with the AR series of rifles but then long term reliability in rough use is not.
If I want nail driving accuracy I use my bolt actions.
THe SKS series are still very well priced for those on a budget. Ammunition too is cheap.

Good that you live in or near the mountains. I am on the flatland..here on the sea coast.

Hope this helps.

THanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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My apologies for leaving out this piece of information.

Where to find a Mosin Nagant.

I am speaking this from a assumption that you are stateside as am I here.

First off..I would determine whether I wanted the short barreled carbine or the longer full length version. Then do I want one in new condition..still in the preservative or a used one.

Once I have determined this requirement..I would start looking around the various gun shops. Start with the Yellow Pages to find them if you dont know thier locations. Bring a flashlight ..like a mini mag so that you can open the bolts and shine a flashlight through the barrels to check the condition of the rifling/cartridge chamber.. especially on a used one.
Gun shops can often order one for you ..almost any rifle available in thier catalogs if they dont have them in stock. YOu just have to fill out the required paperwork when they turn it over to you. I have ordered several rifles and handguns through my local gun shop.

Up to you but for the prices available for this rifle I would buy new in the preservative.

If there is a gun show going on check this out too. You can get buisness cards from different sellers there. They often have e-mail addresses on them long with their web site addresses.

Also check locally for ammunition availability. I know this ammunition is available from several sites on line and they will ship anywhere in this country. It is plentyful here in this town..in varrious configurations.

YOu can also check the newspapers or if you have a special newspaper dedicated to sales of all kinds of stuff like we do here called the "Trading Post". They often have a rifles and guns section in them. Look here but you must know something about rifles to do this. Some people sell some real junk here. Buyer beware.

In short...do your homework..no matter what tool you are purchasing.
I am preparing to purchase a chain saw on a pole for long reach yardwork around here. I dont know much about this configuration but will research it before making this type of purchase. It has become my habit. Part of being prepared so to speak. Good working philosophy by the way...if you have the ability ahead of time to pre plan or pre stage tools manuals..and equipment do so. My term for this is pre staging....on the ready line ..hot to go.

Look around you at the people/familys you know..who dont pre plan or pre stage anything..except for the next television program or weekend fun. There are alot of them around you ..Im sure. Amazing to me how many people around here survived on take out and delivery foods ...weekly..before getting caught short by Hurricane Isabel a few years back. And that wasnt a bad hurricane on the scale of Hurrican Katrina down in the south last year. Astonishing.
This doesnt make you better than anyone by the way..it just makes you prepared..or different. You dont have to tell everyone around you for what you are planning or pre staging...its none of thier buisness. Especially when hard times come...they will be more of a liability than a asset to you and your family.

Hope this helps.
Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 03:38 PM
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Quote:
"You have already voted for orangetom1999 this month." /QUote

You definately are very reliable and smart when it comes to weapons and such. Thank you I will take all of your advice/great information with me when I buy my Mosin Nagant. Oh and yes I am stateside, just to say. Thanks again man.



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 12:21 AM
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YOur certainly welcome. Many on this board have good advice and information.

Northwolf is particularly fond of the Mosin Nagant rifles. Knowlegable too.
I have myself learned to respect this rifle after watching some old timers shoot them at my local gun club.
Paddy Inf is good and has plenty of practical experience with all kinds of such tools.
Some here are more shotgun people than rifles and handguns. All with some seperate pieces of information you can use to form the mosiac of the whole picture for your usage and benefit.


Good Luck in finding your rifle and keep them in the X ring on the target.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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You have voted orangetom1999 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


Orangetom1999,

Very informative all around, not just by you, but by all. I've been thinking about setting up a contengincy plan just in case all hell breaks loose, and this thread has definately got me motivated. Budget is definately a concern of mine. I'm definately looking forward to seeing more come from this thread, and I may be able to update you guys on my progress with getting my survival kit(s) ready.

And I did have a little idea for those who live/work in the city. Invest in a motorcycle/dirtbike. You can get them used and fix them yourselves (if your mechanically inclined, which is just about everyone in this thread I've noticed) for just a couple hundred bucks and some elbow grease. So in Situation X , if the highway gets cloged up with evacuees in minivans and SUVs you can cruise by on the median and get the heck outta dodge. Plus, it saves buckets in gas money if you drive to work in the city on a motorcycle everyday, wheather permitting .


[edit on 4-8-2006 by DropInABucket]



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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Verrry good thinking DropinaBucket



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 10:15 AM
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Yes ..thank you .

We would be very intrested in knowing the progress of your preparations and any ideas you have on this.

I have been working on this off and on for a few years. This started with basic Hurricane preparations some years ago and the purchase of my first generator. Slowly I began to realize it might entail something bigger.
That was when I began to look around me to see how many people even prepare for anything ...or as I often facitiously say..anything but tonights television program.
The last time there was a hurricane which definetely hit this area...Hurricane Isabel...the generators were very quickly gone from all the hardware stores around here. Those who did not pre plan had no fall back position. When the hurricane was gone people were showing up with truckfulls of generators and wanting huge prices for them...scalping. So it pays to pre plan and pre stage.
Over time people spend that much money at the local convenience store...that one would spend for pre staged equipment and supplies. Amazing how many people dont think it through.
Some guy wrote a letter to the newspaper...complaing that he was going broke having to take his family out to dinner in the places which were operating...with electricity...he was going broke...when were they going to get the electricity back on in his neighborhood?? The question is ..why did he not preplan and prestage for something other than Amerian Idol???

Correct about within a budget. Time is the factor you cant really control...except to pre plan...so preplanning and pre staging withing a budget is the way to go. Get your equipment and thinking preplanned and prestaged in position ready to go.

Yes..good on the motorcycle..especially a dirt bike. My main concern with this scenerio is gasoline. I have been thinking about a bicycle. One with on/off road tires. It would be difficult but definitely allow you to move while others are blocking the roads and highways.

Speaking of roads and highways..around here they have been putting up those highway closing arms on big counteweights. This will enable the state transportation people to close off one whole side of the interstates so as to allow both directions of traffic to move in one direction in case of a mass evacuation...particularly in Hurricane conditions. Its about time they did this as the population has drastically increased around here and it would be pandimonium getting out on the highways. Pure congestion. That is not to say it would not be the same in this new scenerio...but they have at least made the effort.

OH...by the way..I have been hearing that the Marines or the Army has a new dirt bike out for reconisance purposes that will run on several different types of fuels. Now this is a definite advantage not to be tied just to gasoline. I dont know much about it..perhapsed some of you out there can fill me in on this concept. This would be worth inquiring about and obtaining if it is effecient. Just being able to use different fuels is a huge advantage. I have heard this about the military HUMVEE type vehicles too. Can any of you give any details on this?? This technology would be worth looking into as to exactly how this is done. I suspect this is something that someone does not want to fall into the hands of the general public.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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The new marine bike runs on diesel and kerosene, but not on reqular gasoline, which is good for the army but not for the average Joe, bike is named M1030B1 it's actually a Kawasaki 650cc modded by HDT

One good and solid option KTM LC4 400, used by many european militaries, i've seen those take such a pounding that i can quarantee you just can break them SOBs... rode with one for 2 weeks in Army Bike recon training... and we rode them on knee deep snow most of the time. very good gas mileage and easy to repair. runs on normal gas.

If you plan to use a bike on emergency, learn how to ride one with heavy loads (40-50Kg) packed into the bike and on you... It's a lot different than having a passenger.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Thanks for the update on the types of off road bikes.

I will look up both models by those numbers. I did not know that about the Army version ..that it only ran on diesel or kerosene. I had assumed that it could burn gasoline or diesel.

Also good on the other model you mentioned. I will look that up too.

I did not know that much about diesel type engines till a few years back when I saw at a auto garage where a guy came in with a diesel rental truck. A U haul type diesel. He was low on fuel so they pulled it up to the pump from which they sold kerosene type K1..for home kerosene heaters and began pumping it into the fuel tank. Until that time I never knew that diesel was a grade of kerosene. Nor did I know that K1 kerosene ..was the high grade clean burning type kerosene...I had thought it was all the same. My education in diesels has continued since that time.
More and more diesels are to be seen today verses say ..ten years ago.

Nevertheless Northwolf..thanks for the information..I will look it up.

Orangetom




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