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How to defend your self, on a budget.

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posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 10:21 AM
Okay, I didn't think I'd ever say this about something published as a comedy section book, but The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks is actually extremely well thought out. Someone, or several someones, sat down and put a rather disturbing amount of thought into what one should do in the event of one of those damned zombie infestations.

Now, I'm going to hazard a guess that most of us are under the assumption we'll never see a Night of the Living Dead in real life, but what the book focuses on: survival in the event of a Situation X gives careful and thoughtful consideration to everything from weapons, to rations, traversing all manner of terrains, location survivability, preperations for defense, wisest use of vehicles and tools, and even time-tables for response. The thing reads like an army field manual.

Anyway, there was a lot of solid advice in there that would apply to many situations besides zombies, especially in regards to ensuring one is also protected against the bandits, pirates, raiders, etc that inevitably rise up when there is a collapse of law and order, and traversing/attacking in a stealthy manner, and which weapons are sturdiest, quietest, have the most durability, provide a one-hit "kill", and offer an alternate use as a tool.

In short, since I know few will actually read the book, here's the summary:

  • The trench-spike was rated best weapon for close-range attack due to its compactness and ability to punch through the human skull with little effort. The crowbar was a near second for its near industructability, easy weight, compactness, and myriad of alternate uses.

  • The crossbow was rated the best ranged weapon for its silence and sheer power. The second-best ranged weapon was the .22 caliber rimfire rifles, because of their good combination of accuracy, simplicity, the light weight of the ammunitition, and the fact that even the lamest store that sells munitions is going to stock .22 rimfire ammo, which cannot neccessarily be said for other calibres. This makes ammo runs a lot easier.

  • As far as vehicles go, the bicycle was rated #1 due to its relative silence compared to other vehicles, the fact that it doesn't require fuel, can traverse narrow gaps, is easiest to repair when it breaks, and unlike any of the other vehicles, can easily be picked up and lifted over obstacles. Second place went to the dirt bike, which shares many of the same advantages as a bicycle, but due to its noise and low fuel capacity, is not as ideal a choice.

    Anyway, that's just a summary of some of the things I found in the Zombie Survival Guide that seem to apply equally well to this thread. Hope it helps.

    [edit on 8/28/2006 by thelibra]

  • posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 03:48 PM
    I own that book, and it's a funny must for the would-be crazed survivalist. It does make a lot of very valid points:

    1. You don't want to be seen or heard. That's how bandits and Eaters get you.

    2. There will be only one large animal left in any abundance in America after Situation X, and it ain't cattle.

    3. The authorities may not be coming to get you, so be prepared for that.

    4. most importantly, keep in shape. The flabby ones always go first.


    posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 06:02 AM
    The libra
    Field shovel is a very good alternative in close quarters (ask any ww2 Russian soldiers that faced Germans with sharpened field shovels)

    As for the ranged weaponry, i would't trust too much on .22, when silenced it's superior as an "assasin" tool and provides the ability to hunt without noise (subsonic ammo)

    But i'd sugest you take a good look at supressing some larger weapons, since they offer superior range and knockdown ability.

    posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 08:10 AM

    Originally posted by northwolf
    The libra
    Field shovel is a very good alternative in close quarters (ask any ww2 Russian soldiers that faced Germans with sharpened field shovels)

    As for the ranged weaponry, i would't trust too much on .22, when silenced it's superior as an "assasin" tool and provides the ability to hunt without noise (subsonic ammo)

    But i'd sugest you take a good look at supressing some larger weapons, since they offer superior range and knockdown ability.

    Yeah, our own troops (USA) used their entrenching tools (spades) to great effect in other wars too. I'm surprised it got left out of the book, really. I keep one in the back of my car for just such an occasion.

    The reason the book opted for a .22 instead of larger bore weapons is because while a .22 can penetrate a skull ONCE, it can't do it TWICE, so it bounces around inside the brain, thus swiss-cheesing it. This is very important in fighting zombies, as the brain is really the only hit that matters. That, and the fact it's a great "shoot and run" weapon and the widespread availability of ammo makes it a great choice when you are looking to only take on one opponent at a time with as little notice by the other enemies as possible. It also is very useful for hunting small game

    For a prolongued fight against multiple (non-zombie) opponents, I agree, a .22 would be next to useless as anything other than a first-shot officer remover. Against multiple opponents, however, especially a well-trained, well-armed militia, you really don't want to engage them unless you're packing superior numbers, firepower, and/or tactics. Without at least two of those things, you're probably going to die when engaging a group in combat. Since most of us don't have superior tactics, numbers, or firepower, it's best to avoid large groups and only use a firearm when absolutely neccessary... and never in a fair fight.

    posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 10:12 AM
    Two first things that we learned in NCO school:
    1)Even teams are not a tactic
    2)Fairplay sucks
    very useful rules in a tough situation

    posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 11:02 AM

    Originally posted by northwolf
    Two first things that we learned in NCO school:
    1)Even teams are not a tactic
    2)Fairplay sucks
    very useful rules in a tough situation

    Clarification on Rule #1... did you mean "even" as in "equal numbers" or as in "not even a team will neccessarily save you"?

    Either would be correct, methinks, just curious which you meant.

    And yeah, fighting fair only works in sports.

    posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 01:47 PM
    Even as in 8 vs. 8

    posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 04:29 AM
    Just some tactical notes i've made for self on operating hostile environments:
    1) Avoid detection at all costs

    2) Make sure that you can control the area you can be seen from, meaning that avoid places where someone can out-range you. And remember your max range is the one you can hit a target "every" time. So i doubt most people here can claim that their .308s max range is 1000m... it's more close to 300m

    3) Get a silencer, if you can't legally buy one, learn how to make one... it's not that hard to make, but allows you more options to clear routes.

    4) Don't play nice, it's better to be the hunter than the prey... If you need something take it, even over someones dead body if it's vital to you. Remember it's about the survival of you and those with you.

    5)"DON'T PANIC"
    Copied from Adams: "Hitchhikers Guide To Galaxy"

    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 12:15 AM
    I just got off work here. I drove my car tonight rather than my moped. Until yesterday it was wonderful weather for riding two wheeled..for the whole of this month. I have really enjoyed it. I have thourghly enjoyed the night rides home from work.
    Have been watching the storm preparations for Ernesto...coming up the coastline now at South Carolina. I have been making some preparations for the last couple of days. I began with charging my spare batteries in the garage. I always like to keep several car batteries around for 12 volt power when needed. One of them is a deep cycle marine battery.
    Also I have filled up my gasoline cans for my generators if needed. It looks like we will get mostly rain with some gusts here.
    I dont like to take to much for granted with these things seems that these storms have a tendency to sometimes go across land and speed back up out at sea..and then come barreling back in.
    As stated in earlier posts..I keep a supply of canned cooking stoves...two of them and fuel too.
    Communications ..I dont count on my cell phone..though I am currently charging it ..just in case ,but the cell towers often go down durinig severe storms and I also have Amateur Radio rigs and home made antennas if need be. Particularly VHF radios. The Amateur bands have repeaters which can make phone calls through a device called a phone patch if the phone system is still up and working.
    I am glad now that I made that second emergency antenna for the VHF two meter band. I also know how to string up HF band quick simple antennas if needed and have two HF Band radios.
    My chain saws and pole saws have been checked out and are ready to go.

    This one looks pretty mild as to what happened in other places..but one never quite turns ones back on such a thing. AT least I expect the power to go out at times. Also ..the season is not over by a long shot as of yet. As I recall the season goes on through some time in November.

    Thats my sit on the Chesapeake Bay of Virginia for today.


    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 12:50 AM
    I hope all goes well for You.

    I'm lucky to live in a place where 20+m/s second winds are rare, where there are no hurricanes and no earthquakes.

    Only natural "disaster" lately was the large number of forrest fires in NW Russia, those smoked us pretty bad..

    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 01:11 AM
    Here what I would use a samurai sword by my waist and a AK-47 on my back with a .45 USP with a knife on my chest (in a holder). I found that to work really well and quickly in any moment.

    PS: I was taught by my grand papa from Nicaragua who was an Sandinista.

    [edit on 1-9-2006 by El Che]

    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 06:26 PM
    Ak-47's are pretty inaccurate...I suggest like most everyone here has and go with an SKS of some sort (finnish or yugoslavian model...correct me if i'm wrong guys)... .45 USP isn't bad...and I guess if you wanted to be a ninja/samurai, then that sword would be best...

    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 07:06 PM
    I've been reading up on this post for a wee while, and one thing occurs to me...what can we Brits do to defend ourselves? Our options are somewhat limited...guns are out of the question for a start, but that would give an advantage in that we are less likely to encounter a gun-toting adversary.

    In terms of weapons, I would strongly recommend buying a high-power slingshot--something like the Barnett BlackWidow, and plenty of spare licence required, silent, can fire stones, metal nuts and ball-bearings, or anything else to hand with a degree af accuracy with enough power to incapacitate humans from 30 meters...also invest in either a bow or X-bow, again, no licence is required, silent, and accurate

    I'd also recommend buying a heap of fireworks come the run-up to Guy Fawkes night...stash them somewhere safe away from damp and potential ignition, and you have a potential arsenal of explosive substances to be made into a more lethal form should you ever wish to
    **note: could be highly illegal in the face of current anti-terror legislation in the UK **

    [edit on 1-9-2006 by timski]

    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 08:52 PM
    Something you have to realize, Timski...explosives aren't neccesary. Ever. Hurling chunks of homemade dynamite is...inadvisable at best.


    posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 08:58 PM

    Originally posted by timski
    In terms of weapons, I would strongly recommend buying a high-power slingshot--something like the Barnett BlackWidow, and plenty of spare elastics...

    Slingshot won't do you much good against a zombie, though. You can't get enough force to penetrate the braincase.

    If you really want to go archaic, and have time to practice and space for mistakes, try learning how to use a sling. Like one of those "put a stone in a strap, sling it around, and release" type things. You can amplify the amount of applied force from your sling-bullet to lethal levels, achieve more range, and you can make your weapon out of almost anything. Downside is that it takes a loooong time to get good. Loooong time.

    But it'll kill zombies, sure enough.

    Originally posted by timski
    I'd also recommend buying a heap of fireworks come the run-up to Guy Fawkes night...stash them somewhere safe away from damp and potential ignition, and you have a potential arsenal of explosive substances to be made into a more lethal form should you ever wish to

    Err... m8, if you can get fireworks in the UK, the rest of the materials needed to make a crude one-shot shotgun/rifle are a matter of some lead pipe, creative use of a hacksaw, pliars, and a soldering iron. Bonus points if you've got a bit of wood for a stock.

    I'm still a pretty firm believer that if it comes down to a gunfight, one bullet is about all you'll get the chance to use before you attract enough attention to get outgunned, or in the case of zombies, outgummed. (rimshot) So you really don't want to fire till you know it'll mean life or death.

    posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 01:31 AM
    Some thoughts on the subject of cheap defense:

    1000 3/8" steel balls can be had for about $125 on ebay ($60 for 1/4") and a good barnett slingshot can be had for under $30. I suggest one for each of your family members; 5 slingshots a blazing from the bush with 3/8 steel balls would make quite a silent ambush.

    Where I live people are developing "tree phobia" following the last few storm seasons and many old growth trees have been cut down. I have let a few of the logging crews know that they can dump 3'-5' diameter logs on my land. No bullets penetrate a 11' long x 4' diameter log and 3 people could hold up behind it in a stand off.

    If you live in the city, keep fuel necessary to escape to a friends pad in the sticks.

    My small block home has hay bails holding 3' of dirt around it. Bullet proof walls.

    A youth compound bow with a draw weight of 40-50 is usable by just about any small female or young male and will take down game. I am personally fond of the Browning Micro Adrenaline. The low draw weight allows for rapid load and fire for full grown men and with 250+ FPS there is still plenty of knock down power.

    Go for a bike ride. Get to know your neighborhood. Pretend like situation X was there. Where would you hide/snipe from?

    Axle grease is nice stuff to have on hand and can be used to stick explosives to tank tracks. It is also highly flamable when brought to temperature.

    Crude napalm can be made from soap flakes, petro, and styrofoam peanuts. Be careful. Consider a 3 man slingshot (water balloon launcher).

    Some pretty nasty biological agents can be made from fermented human feces or raw meat. Do some googling on that, and again be careful.

    Grind the plastic handle off of your wife's best chef knife and tie to the end of it to a 6' hardwood sapling. Excellent makeshift spear.

    Remember the movie "home alone"? Consider your situation and think leathal, not funny. What type of traps could you have waiting right now... just in case? A faux structural 8x8 beam that swings past your front door when triggered from the other side, etc.

    I keep a sharp estwing carpenters hatchet hanging beside my front door and a 10" utility knife accessable from the toilet. In my living room there is a 6' prybar leaning in the corner. Where I sleep there is a louisville slugger next to my bed, with an open boxcutter always on my night table. The world is at war and there are crackheads out on the street.

    I have three rental properties and keep a razor sharp shovel at each, very accessable from the front yard.

    I have a cheap WWII Jap officers katana, that sure as poo would hurt... but I'm looking into a better more expensive one.

    Keep carabiners and every gauge of rope and chain a man could need to rig traps.

    If you are blue collar, consider the tools you use daily and the skills you've developed with those tools. Being a carpenter, sharp chisels make excellent throwing knives and hammers are good a beating more than nails.

    If you run into someone regularly and think to yourself..." if there is a fight that dude needs to be on my side"... become known to them and earn their protection.

    If you can find and store small quantities of dynamite/explosives now, do so, because you will not find it later. Model rocket electronic detonators are an excellent available way to remotely set off explosives.

    Fishing line make excellent trip line and could potentially kill if strung in front of oncoming motor bikes.

    Read Military Studies in the Jihad Against the Tyrants

    Read 22 ways to kill a man with your bare hands

    Research how to make different types of explosives, there is plenty out there... Also different poisons and biological agents. Make friends with someone who majored in chemistry.

    The Man makes the bullets.... in the end of times one cannot depend upon guns unless they are making their own rounds.

    Just realize... the day that the poo hits the fan and you break out one of the ideas mentioned above... you're now the insurgent. Have good Jihadding. And if all else fails and your family and friends are dead... strap a bomb to yourself and take out some of the enemy's financial district.

    For a hill men would kill,

    Sri Oracle

    posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 02:38 PM
    Tropical Storm Enersto..passed here without much damage. The power of course went out for about 14 hours. I put off hooking up my generator for about 12 hours and only ran it for about 1.5 hours. Lots of debris to pick up around the yard along with other tasks to accomplish around here. THere was more wind damage around here than what I had expected..flooding too. Mosty back to normal as of now.

    Three day weekend with the Labor Day festivities coming up. I'm not into night life or wildlife per se..will spend the weekend around here doing odd jobs and not working at it to the point where the jobs work me ..that is.

    I plan to go to the shooting club this weekend and try my reloads for my SKS Rifle. If they work out ok..I will log the data in my books for future reference.
    Also I will try out this AR 15 I have managed to acquire. Will give a status report on these events later.
    I have decided to put off the acquisition of the varmit class barrel for rush here. I already have very accurate rifles in caliber .223. I do not plan to use this rifle for defensive purposes. I am thinking it would be more useful for trade or barter...than defense.
    I still thirst for that FN/FAL type rifle I have seen...but I am forcing myself to "just say no." I dont really need more of this type of goodies.
    From what I have seen the SKS rifles would be much better for defense particulary at current prices for both rifles and ammunition.

    By the way..was snooping around in a accessory gun site and found two types of replacement stocks for the SKS. I am considering one of each. A monte carlo type stock made from this fiberglass/nylon type material and also one of the folding stock types .also fiberglass/nylon.

    Thanks to all,
    Keep them in the X ring,

    posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 06:35 PM
    Go on, OT. Give in.

    Get the FAL.

    It's the right arm of the free world. Still in service today. You won't miss the AR15. No one will. Sure, the SKS is cheaper. But the FAL is the FAL, the golden standard for assault rifles, the benchmark that the AR15 failed to live up to.

    Come on. You you know you want to.


    posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 10:29 PM
    You are tempting me ...hear me now you buzzard....!!!

    My palms itch for this rifle...but I am trying to say "NO"

    Lead me not into temptation ..just show me where it is...!!

    Seriously though...I dont need another rifle.

    I had to slap myself and say..."Snap out of it...dummie!!"

    This is what made me decide to turn down for the time being the heavy barreled varmit upper receiver for the AR 15. I already have a very accurate heavy barreled bolt action in .223. When I dont need the 500 plus dollars For anything more important ..I may spend the moneys on the AR modification.

    The FN/FAL is a beautiful piece of engineering. I have finally seen a couple of the DSA models showing up at the gun club. Makes me thirst even more...tempting!!
    Hear me now..."TEMPTING!!!"

    Ok...deep breath ...deep breaths...!!!

    Im ok now...Ive got it together...!! Deep breaths..

    I have my gear set aside and prestaged in my garage for tomorrows session at the range. My Spotting Scope, hearing protection. ammo. cleaning kit, tripod, Caldwell shooting rest and bags.

    I will be taking my SKS and the reloads I made for it. The AR 15 and some cheap ammo just to see if she can hold any type of group.

    For pure shootng pleasure I am taking my Savage model 12 heavy barreled rifle in .223. This rifle has the accutrigger. She is a pure pleasure to shoot if one takes ones time. Very accurate too. I have some reloads with Hornady V max bullets for her. These seem to shoot very well in this rifle. 1 in 12 twist in the rifling. She prefers the lighter bullets for accuracy.

    Ok.....I've got it together to do around here...!!

    Catch you folks later.


    posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 10:52 PM
    Hell, MY palms itch for the damn FAL. Go on. Buy it. What harm is there in it?

    I mean, look at that AR. Taunting you. Saying 'trade me in for something you actually want.' And you know if you fire it, it'll get dirtier than all holy hell, and its a pain to clean. Buy the FAL. If nothing else, you can export it in all its highly illegal goodness to me. Or make room in the vault some other way.

    You want that FAL. Go on, OT. Give in to the Belgian goodness.


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