How to defend your self, on a budget.

A PPK?
You know, they can be ineffective through even a few layers of thick clothing.
I assume if the government is coming for you; it won't be naked.
As for your list, I'd like to add:
Tin foil hat, and possibly if you budget will allow it a bubble wrap suit.
Also; have at least one room in your house completely covered in tin foil. Walls, ceiling, floor. For added protection against the governments mind control rays, dangle coat hangers from the ceiling. It also adds an eire of 50's esque conspiracey theory.
See? A little money can go a long way in terms of protection and asthetics.

My main concern, being that I am in the midwest close to the New Madrid Fault, is of course a major earthquake. I work in the city, but live in the suburbs. I've been planning on buying some land (20+ acres) out in the country so my wife can have her horses again, and that will probably be a good location to fall back on if nessecery.

My motorcycle would take my wife and I to saftey,with minium equipment, but I also have an infant, so taking the bike out of town is not really an option, at least for another 10-15 years. So if the highways are clogged, looks like we'll have to hunker down in the 'burbs, which could possibly get a little crazy.

I'm trying to budget this to be less than $2000 all togeather, and as far as weapondry is concerned, you've all sold me on the SKS, I have some rifle experiance, mainly with an M-16A2 when I was in the army, and my father in-law happens to have a scoped Chinese SKS so I can go plink for a little while at the range and make my final decision.

First step to getting prepared is the cheapest of all, I need to get back into good physical shape. If I can do that, it could mean the all the differance in a life or death situation. As I think of more stuff I'll keep you guys posted.

Originally posted by DropInABucket

First step to getting prepared is the cheapest of all, I need to get back into good physical shape. If I can do that, it could mean the all the differance in a life or death situation. As I think of more stuff I'll keep you guys posted.

hahah right-o man...staying in shape is vitally important, because like you said...it can mean the difference in a life or death situation. While most of you have the luxury of being adults, i'm now 17yr old junior in highschool and i guess its ok cuz im on the indoor and outdoor track teams, and during summer i work out every other day.....While I can't buy land, I know of places to go...I can't buy any weapons/guns until I am 18 of course. urgh, why couldn't i have been born 8 years earlier!

good post though, DropInABucket

[edit on 7-8-2006 by AllinTheMind89]

Hey Dude...dont sell yourself short here. Being 17 means you have plenty of time to think and prepare. More so than many of us.

I believe someone early on in this thread posted Mental preparation is important ..just as important as many of the supplies prestaged. You would be surprised to see how many people freeze up at a moment of emergency. Like a deer in the headlights so to speak. THey just dont know what to do...they havent thought it through. No concept ..no brain cells working.

Those who have some kind of plan and fall back position are way ahead of others in this kind of thing. This was obvious in the Hurricane Isabel situation I posted about and we didnt have a bad one like Katrina down south.

The poster who spoke of metal attitude/stability was right on ..in the X-ring ..bulls eye on the target. Attitude is a major factor. Confidence...conficence...confidence.

By the way AllIntheMind89...this applies not just in a emergency situation...but in our daily survival itseslf. Confidence. And confidence is an attitude a dicipline. It will seperate the wild animals from the diciplined ones. Civilization is based on dicipline...not wild animals.

Oh..and the last poster who posted about getting in shape..correct on that too..mental as well as physical.

Thanks,
Orangetom

To add one thing
Train, Train, Train...
Go camping, practise trap making, train shooting (if you have nothing else a BB gun will do), learn to orienteer... list goes on

Ps. Scouting and snooping around the area you live in is a good way to prepare, recon has never hurt anyone. Know how to move around without using main routes. Are there warehouses with food? Other stores? Military Depots? etc...

Originally posted by northwolf
To add one thing
Train, Train, Train...
Go camping, practise trap making, train shooting (if you have nothing else a BB gun will do), learn to orienteer... list goes on

Never heard of Orienteer...what is that exactly?

(hopefully this wasn't a dumb question)

Originally posted by AllinTheMind89

Never heard of Orienteer...what is that exactly?

(hopefully this wasn't a dumb question)

Navigation with a map and compass.

No such thing as a dumb question.

"How to defend yourself on a budget" is an entirely different question than, "what weapons should I have handy when TSHTF".

Since the answer to #1 is "a Makarov with some 95gr Barnaul JHPs and a Yugo SKS with any generic 7.62x39mm ammo";

and the answer to #2 is "an HK416 flat top fitted with a Tango Down foregrip, a mil spec ACOG, a Surefire light attachment with integrated laser and a truck load of .223Rem 55grain Federal Tactical JHPs, with 3 spares in the exact same configuration."

Originally posted by DropInABucket

Originally posted by AllinTheMind89

Never heard of Orienteer...what is that exactly?

(hopefully this wasn't a dumb question)

Navigation with a map and compass.

No such thing as a dumb question.

NOW that is a skill that would definately come in handy...a MUST in my opinion..

edit: You have voted DropInABucket for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by AllinTheMind89]

Originally posted by northwolf
To add one thing
Train, Train, Train...
Go camping, practise trap making, train shooting (if you have nothing else a BB gun will do), learn to orienteer... list goes on

Ps. Scouting and snooping around the area you live in is a good way to prepare, recon has never hurt anyone. Know how to move around without using main routes. Are there warehouses with food? Other stores? Military Depots? etc...

what the hell, you've been just as much help as everyone else here so: You have voted northwolf for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.



[edit on 8-8-2006 by AllinTheMind89]

No such thing as a dumb question here. I second that. In the bullseye with that shot..well done.

Orangetom

As my dear Captain used to say:
"There are no dump questions, only dump people asking"

Just Joking

It's allways good to ask questions...

One thing about relocating after a disaster is that you know how far you can go in a day, so you know if you need to plan for additional safe points for resting while moving to the place you plan to move to... can you walk 20km or 50km in day with the load you're carrying...?

I have really enjoyed this Topic so far, and thought some Source Material might be of interest to some of the reviewers. As is clear, everyone here, does not seem to know everything about everything, and learning is an interest.

Some of the Younger Members have expressed interest as well, so I thought I would offer the following for review.

www.eco-action.org...
This Links is a collection of Topics, that have a breakdown of reference and instructional books for each topic.

Some of those topics are as follows:

Forward To The Paleolithic!
Self Defence
First Aid And Medical
Things That Go Bang
Home Sweet Home
General Mayhem And Mischief
No Comment!
Craft
Now You See Me...

There are about 20 sections in total, but some are not of interest specific to this topic.

In each heading, there are some good books you can try to obtain from your Local Source. The Publication, Author and ISBN# are generally noted.

If you are a litte on the extreme side, I would also suggest you Google "Ragnar Benson Survival Guides". He has quite a few How To Books that makes McGyver look like a dunce. Some are obviously for educational and academic purposes only, but it is good direction none the less. The main goal is YOUR Survival afterall.

And a very Good Source of Information on a whole, would be Paladin Press.
www.paladin-press.com...
Most of the Conversation in here, can be researched though Publcations and Books offered through this firm.

I hope these links are useful. If you happen to be looking to study on some of these matters, at least it gives you direction to do so.

Ciao

Shane

Thanks for the info Shane, though it does seem a little like a shameless plug . I'll take a look at that. The book entitled "Stuff that goes Bang" piqued my interest, as I did some work with explosives in the military.

This is a great thread, and I'd hate to see it fade away. I'd love to see this go sticky, but thats just me.

. o (wonders what Orangetom is up to this week)

To answer your question Drop in the Bucket...It has been a very intresting week.

Other than problems with my truck for which I am in no great hurry to get repaired I have been tinkering around the home here in the Chesapeake Bay area of Virginia.

My week began with the attempt to build another emergency antenna. It has been a couple of years since I had built one and the skills needed to be kept up to date.
The first attempt was a washout in frustration and I decided to quit as the job began working me instead of me properly working it. The next night after work I continued again and success. The tune up proceedures to achieve resonance and a good match...were what had eluded me. THese were the skills needing to be refined to get back into the groove. I had acquired a length of usable coaxial cable at a local yard sale which prompted this project. I had been wanting another standby emergency antenna for some time now. It became a matter of soldering the correct connectors to the end of the coaxial cable and then building and tuning the antenna. The antenna itself is a simple J-pole antenna made from that flatwire type 300 ohm television cable ..of the type so common before cable tv. THis is a transmitting antenna for the VHF frequencys for which I can throw a line over a tree branch in a emergency,pull the antenna up to the branch and hook it up to a radio. It is also very portable..and can be rolled up and stored. Very little storage space needed. If you ever saw one of these things you would never guess that it was a antenna. It is so stupid looking but ironically it works well for as little as it really is. I have probably less than $10 in it.

The other intresting thing which has happened this week is that I have managed to acquire a AR-15 Rifle. It seems that a fellow I know needed some moneys rather badly and sold this rifle to me for $450. I dont reallly need a AR15 rifle as I have a few rifles which can fire the .223/5.56mm cartridge. However at that price and the condition of the rifle it was difficult to turn down. The opportunity does not really present itself often at that price.
As I keep a mag lite on me most of the time I was able to disassemble the rifle for inspection before purchasing. THe rifling is good and the overall appearence is not marred by overuse. I dont believe it has been shot very much.
This rifle has the round type forend handguard..verses the triangular type popular when I was in the military. It also seems to have a heaver..thicker barrel.
It says on the side of it ..Colt...Sporter Target.
This rifle barrel seems to be the standard 20 inch length but a heavier thicker barrel than what I recall on the military type M16s when I was sworn in. Standard carry type handle on top with the peep sight in it. No bayonet lug...for which I am not in any way intrested.
This rifle also has a sling swivel on the front end of the barrel in the usual place and one in the back of course. However something I dont recall on the older M16 rifles is a loop for what appears to be a sling hook up...where the stock joins the back end of the receiver. It is like s little spacer piece inserted there with a small loop sticking out for a different kind of sling. I just dont recall this in the older days.
However..this type of rifle seems to have undergone some modification over the years. it also has the foreward assist mechanism on it.

First thing I did with it after exchanging the cash was to take her out in my garage and dissassemble her inspecting closely as I went. Trigger assembly and bolt looked to be in good shape. I dont think she has been shot very much. I began the clean up proceedures as I went. It looked good inside to me and I put a light coat of that silicone grease of which I spoke in earlier posts..as a water or moisture barrier....after the usual cleaning solvents were punched and applied to the parts.
I have not taken her to the range to shoot as of yet..no hurry here.

I am not really intrested in a AR 15 for defensive purposes as I already have what to me is more suitable tools for this job begining with my 12 gauge Ithaca Model 37
police pump shotgun with a 20 inch barrel.
What I have in mind for this is to sell it or trade it in on a varmit type...target AR 15. I have seen a few of them at the gun shows..they are in the 24 inch heavy free floating barrel type. This type of varmit rifle is definitely not a defensive type rifle. I am going to check at my local gun store as they seem to have one ..and see what they will give me for it in trade twords a varmit type. If I am not happy with their offer I will hang on to this AR 15.
Im just not into the AR 15 series as a defensive type weapon.

Well Gentlemen...that is the kind of week I have been having. I might get around to shooting this rifle and some of my others this weekend.

Keep them in the X-ring guys,
Orangetom

Reading your last post I saw you mention the name Ragnar Benson.

I have read a number of his books begining with "Survival Poaching".

Also his books have ideas in them on how to build a cache for your survival goods.
Some common sense ideas in thier by Ragnar. Mind you now that since those days some new tools and inventions have come on the market but you just have to think things through in how to apply these new goodies to the problem solving forumlas.

If I recall the narrative correctly..I will try to get the gist of it here. In his book "Mantrapping" Ragnar speaks of his years "hiring out " his skills in Africa.
THe troops he was accompanying had set up a ambush and thier prey was about to walk into it in front of thier elevated position. Ragnar was armed with the olde M3 Grease gun. THeir group opened up on them and pretty much decimated most of them. IN the background...some 200 or more yards..He could see their leaders getting ready to run or what he took for their military advisors. IN those days they were Cubans. He raised his M3 grease gun to a high elevation and in despiration and fired off the whole magazine. To his astonishment the advisor fell down.
Carefully walking over to where this advisor had fallen he rolled him over and looked for the wound. Finding none..or no obvious mark he rolled him back over face down and pulled back his shirt collar. There on the back of his neck near his shoulder was a large black and purple bruise. It had not penetrated but apparently had completely knocked this guy out for the count.
I found this to be one of Ragnars more intresting stories and I am sure he has many as a review of his book selection indicates he has written many more books since that one and those days when I read his accounts.
I have enjoyed Ragnar's books over the years and applied some of his ideas.

THanks for reminding me of him.
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Reading your last post I saw you mention the name Ragnar Benson.

I have read a number of his books begining with "Survival Poaching".

THanks for reminding me of him.
Orangetom

No problem, Despite the previous suggestion from a poster, I had anything to benefit from the my suggestion, I assure you all, I do not.

BUT. Written Instruction, WILL BECOME DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN in the not too distant future.

I liked his instruction aids of General Items being utilized in the Defenseive, as well as his texts on Trapping. Say to make a "NATURAL" Fish Trap, that means you do not need to sit on the Bank of the river, and be spoted, when concealment and discretion is the objective.

And he is a funny guy.

But the ONLY POINT I WISHED TO MAKE was there is Literature we can still obtain, that can allow for guidance in this areas, and despite all of the excellent post's offered here, ONE DAY, THEY TOO WILL BE GONE.

One EMP, and this Post will be fried forever. But the Written Word, can be stored and keep in relative safety, and today, it is still available.

I just was offering directions, and other sources for those who may wish to obtain or at least study the material.

In No way is this to suggest the idea's offered here, in this excellent Topic, are not important. From my perspective (Being SEMI PREPARED) we have some very valuable insights and thoughts that have been offered here, by some VERY INFORMATIVE INDIVIDUALS. I am not dismissing this fact.

I am just ensuring, if this Topic is one you would like to use to plan ahead, materials will be required.

Field Dressing and Medical Procedures Manuels should be in your Hands. It will save your life one day. Having Needles for Stiches, knowning what plants assit in Healing and keeping out infections, can only be a benefit. ALong with the Many other concerns, ie Bites, Fractures, bleeding.....

Manuals on Tear Down and rebuilding items are also a plus. I have many manuals on various Cars and Trucks, despite never owning one. This does not mean I many not need one some day. Or someone else may need this info, and it can be used.

Maybe even a Stash of GOOD HAND TOOLS. Maybe your handy and can fix things, but you can't do squat without the tools.

But you should have a Plan. Know where it is you will STAND. Have what your deem required there, and ready, and in each of your closets at home, the Bug Out Pack must be stacked and packed with what you will need to get you there.

But again, I have picked up some neat ideas from here, and I am one of the more prepared people I know. Excellent Topic and Hopefully more insights and suggestions will follow.

Ciao

Shane

P.S. I noted Medical and plants and such. Maybe Native Books on the area you live in would be beneficial. They have used the "Local Plants" for Eon's and can eliminate some of the guess work where ever you may live.

P.S.S. Archery Equipment seems to have not been covered. Very Discrete, in all applications. Defensive, Offensive, Hunting, Fishing, Rigging Lines. I have Recurves, Compound Bows, Long Bows and Crossbows which again, are quite useful in a pinch.

THanks again for your post.

The concept of caching in heavy schedule 40 pvc pipe at 8 inch diameters... is a idea I got from Ragnar Benson. I have practiced drilled with it...and experimented to see how to stash a rifle and ammo/cleaning supplies. My experiment was a bit over a year in duration. This is where I learned that .22 caliber rifles have a much milder softer steel than high powered rifles. THey are prone to rust easier than the hi powered ones. The grease I originally used was ordinary wheel bearing grease and then wrapped them tightly in a couple of plastic bags..tying them securely with string. The high powered rifle was a 1903 Springfield in 30.06 Caliber. I had to seperate this rifle from the stock to get it to fit in the tube.
What I learned by this is that the axle grease was insufficient for these purposes.
The milder softer steel of the Marlin Glenfield model 60 rifle rusted and spotted in places. the rifling in the barrel was still good as were the internal operating mechanisms.
It took me another six months to realize the grease I needed was a grease with a silicone base. Silicone being a moisture barrier. I settled on a Silicone based O-ring grease by Dow Corning labeled M55. But any type of grease with silicone as a moisture barrier will do. I have used this grease on my black powder rifle hanging on the wall over my head and not cleaned it in a few years and no corrosion. This grease works amazingly well.
Anyway this is what came out of Ragnars original idea of how to cache in pvc piping.

I too own a crossboy..150 lb draw and a variety of bolts for it.

Correct on the books and reading material..quite correct. Certain knowleges are key...including the basics of how to put the knowleges to use. This is the rationale for practicing this week to make another emergency antenna. To keep the skills up to date as well as needing another antenna to cache.

Using hand and powered tools heavily in my occupation I keep a generous supply here on hand. I have managed to acquire a variety of sharpening/honing stones and files also. I keep some of these in a oil bath on the bench in my garage. The others are in caches. A basic assortment are in a bag ..a ready bag...on the ready line. Included in this Is a basic assortment of measuring tools.
I keep 2 way radio gear on hand..though in some instances I would be reluctant to use this.
Medicines and plants Is a difficult one but the books are available. Especially if you had someone in your group which needed specific medicines...like blood pressure or diabetis..etc. Very tough decisions would eventually need to be made here.

And no I did not take your post as a promotion of Ragnars books or of Paladin Press. No offense was taken here. People like me tend to appreciate good and useful information ..no matter the source.

Oh ..and yes some of Ragnar's narratives are quite humorous. Seeing as to how his book selection has substantially increased I will have to catch up on my reading.

THanks again for your post,

Gotta go ..things to do here before the weekend arrives,
Keep them in the X ring..all,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Shane
No problem, Despite the previous suggestion from a poster, I had anything to benefit from the my suggestion, I assure you all, I do not.

Tom, he was talking about me and my "shameless plug" comment. Shane, no offense was to be made, just making a little joke.

Thats one heck of a steal on that AR-15 Tom. If anything it should make a good trade for the varmit, or a more useful tool.

In regards to the storage in PVC pipes, where you just sealing off then ends? I had thought about that not too long ago, but I was thinking about the moisture that would be in the pipe before sealing and I came up with a hairbrained idea about installing a small valve on the side/end of the pipe and using a vacuum pump to draw all remaining air/moisture out of the PVC. Now it might not work on the thin stuff but on the sewer grade PVC it should be able to hold a vacuum for some time, as long as the seals are good and the valve doesn't fail. But thats what the silicone grease is for .

I've been testing out improvised explosives out on my friend's land, with the excuse to our wives that we're taking out a couple of tree stumps. Just busted out a certain book, which will go unnamed because everyone probably knows which one it is, and tried different stuff made out of household items, too see what would be effective in a pinch, to say block/unblock a road. I'll let you know what I find works best, if anyone is interested.

Oh, and a side note from my experiments with IEs...the mentos and diet coke thing works...but is highly ineffective for the task at hand.

Yes I understood that Shane was refering to you ..no problem. I just offered him a bit of opinion on that.

Yes I am refering to the Schedule 40 type sewer pipe. The thick stuff. I too had considered pulling a vacuum on one but decided not to go this way. I just dont know for sure how well the pipe or a valve would hold up under this type of vacuum. Especially if it became cracked under such evacuation pressures. How much of a vacuum do you plan to put on one and do you know how much thick wall sewer pipe can maintain. Also your choice of input valve to install the vacuum would be critical. Any leak here would put you back to just simply covering it up like I am doing. Your input valve would have to be well sealed too with some kind of sealant.
My technique for covering it up is to pack my equipment as described. Ammo can be padded and put in those food saver bags and vacuum sealed. I have one of those too.

A friend of mine works in the air compressor buisness where they rent them ..commercial high volume stuff..they also rent air dryers. He can get me the dessicant beads they use and re dry in the dryer towers....to put in the tubes. I just put it in a doubled up pair of olde white socks down in the bottom of the tubes.

My vacuum pump is a olde refrigeration compressor I salvaged from a olde unit.. it can pull down close to 29 inchs Hg if I let it run long enough...on small systems ...something like a 8 inch pipe here discussed and about 8 foot long would be no problem. I just planned my arrangements without a vacuum..using mostly careful packaging and that silicone based grease.

THe ends are put on one at a time ...first with the PVC primer then glue and then I put additional sealer on it ..some kind of RTV derivitive. I let it stand for at least 24 hours before making other arrangements for its disposition.

I have also done some work with a book titled
"construction of secret hiding places". I was curious about this too. Amazing what one can do if one thinks something through and has some rudimentary skills.

I like the one about the guy making a gun safe in his garage..out of a water heater. He cut out the back and the inner tank carefully and stows his rifles guns and ammo in it on handmade shelves and racks, reinserts the fitted home made cover, and then rotates it back around to look like a water heater. He even has false pipe going into the walls to look functional. Really cool... Smart idea eh???

Gotta go..work to do around here..just got off work here. Standing the night watchs and doing odds and ends.

Thanks,
Orangetom