How to defend your self, on a budget.

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posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 01:18 PM
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Alright, I'm going to suggest another angle to this:

What about fortifying your home and digging in there? I that if Situation X produces riots, hungry crowds, etc. out on the street trying to get somewhere is not where you want to be. Even with harcore arms and armor, your chances of holding off a small mob are slim to nil. So what about hunkering down?

I'm just trying to look at all the angles, especially with the Canadian gun laws being what they are. The 'good guys' have no right to defend themselves, basically, while the criminals have access to whatever goodies they can afford from the States. Some guy was caught with a full-auto AK awhile back.

DE




posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 02:46 PM
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I would not really recommend it, but if you are planning on staying in your house during situation X, i would contact the people from Gaffco.

www.gaffco.com...

Also, I would recommend concealing / hiding the entrance so that if someone gets in your house, they will not easily find your safe room.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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I was thinking of something more along the lines of something cheap and easy that can be used to fend off the mobs or something. I wasn't suggesting cowering in a saferoom, more along the lines of making one's current dwelling more secure.

DE



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Well you could buy a lot of plywood so if situation X were to occur, you could just board up your place. Also, if you live in a multiple story house / apartment, i would suggest breaking off a section of stairs as it makes it much much harder for people to get to where you are. Also, if a person was planning to stay in their residence, i would recommend growing plants that yield some time of fruit / vegetables, but still keep plenty of non-perishables in the house. Also, seems kinda cheesy, but i was looking into hidden bookcase door things on the net today, and for not too much money, you can completely conceal a room, meaning that if a person did manage to get into your house, they would not be able to find you, which is a definite plus. Just my 2 cents.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 11:10 PM
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I was thinking about just keeping some old-fashioned sandbags and razorwire in the basement, and putting up some impromptu defences. In an apartment building, yeah, just lock the doors and board up the windows. Only issue would be food, which would run out in a hurry.

I mean, when you think about it, some apartment buildings (I'm thinking of some about a mile from me, big concrete monsters) are ready-made fortresses. Heavy-duty construction, height advantage, barracks and whatnot. You could farm on the roof, see any major offensives coming, and have the parking garage for storage. Blockading the entrances shouldn't be too hard. The only problme would be, you know, the people already inside.

DE



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 11:28 PM
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quote:
-Baseball bat, generally are quite cheap and easilly attained, they generally can be found all over the place including thrift stores and Wal-Mart, they run from a dollar to 30 bucks for a suficient one, generally wood ones are the best but a alluminum bat is almost as effective.


ONLY if it's the only option for you. You have to get to close to use it, and in a place like a hallway it's useless. (Unless you can ask Mr. Bad Guy to step into the living room so you can bash his skull in)


Any hand to hand weapon typically has more than one use, swinging is only one of the several business ends of a baseball bat in close quarters they make very fine jabbing instruments. (tooth knocker outer)

any weapon you should decide to procure you should be well versed in it's many facets of use including how it might be used on you cause any weapon that you hold in your hands can be taken from and used on you.

at any rate hand to hand guns knives just like anything else don't buy them sit on your A## and say okay I am safe now cause when the time comes to use them you will be nervous as hell and will probably screw it up in one way or another hopefully you will be on the good end of the screwup but why not train A LOT and then be able to approach the situation with much more confidence..

"oops" and don't forget how much safer the gun is when you know what you are doing.


Regards
GEOCOM

[edit on 6/13/2006 by geocom]



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 12:12 AM
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Deus, while reading your post, i thought about the scene in 28 days later of the swat guy who barricaded him and his daughter in their apartment. So i think doing something like that would probably work; just move a lot of heavy furniture in front of the door and you are good to go. As you mentioned, the down side of an apartment is that you quickly run out of food. I see two solutions to this problem:

1) Store A LOT of non-perishable stuff in your house

or

2) If you live in an apartment, secure one of those portable fire escape ladders to the top of the building, this way you can get directly to the roof from your apartment. I would also recommend barricading the roof door so no one else is able to get up here. Once you have control of the roof, you can grow some plants so you can have a continuous supply of food.

As i recommended before, if you can somehow breakaway a section of stairs leading up to your level in an apartment building, it makes it incredibly hard for people to get to you.



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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If you could get the people of your floor (or a few floors) to side with you, it wouldn't be that bad. The issue would be, once again, chow and water. No electricity means no water. However, if you could provision yourself, set up balcony and rooftop gardens, then it wouldn't be too bad. It would definitely make for an excellent fortress. Another thing is considering turning it into a trading post as well as a fortress. Victims/evacuees leaving things behind could find them bartered.

Well, if you're unconscionable, or if it's a permenant departure, at any rate. Definitely, in case of hardcore rioting and societal breakdown, being in an apartment would definitely be to your advantage. Your only two enemies would be the people inside with you, and fire. Fire is not your friend.

DE



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 01:43 AM
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Fortifying yourself into a flat is viable option if:
1)Emergency is only short term
2)You a certain that it's defendable by means you have
3)You have stockpiles
4)You can avoid possible diseases etc.

In a House you face the problem of defending the perimeter, since you can't trust your doors and walls (it takes 5mins to go through brickwall with a sledgehammer)
My suggestion is that you find a place that has open around it (factory, shop, friends house, anything goes) and group up with friends and family 5-10 people can maintain constant watch and perimeter guard indefinately. Alone you have the problem of sleep, eventualy you need it.

On the other hand, if you are capable of moving in to countryside you may be able to avoid contacts with hostile/diseased people. So granpas farm might be the bes option


(my grandpa lives 5km from me and has a farm and good supply of arms, so i'm probably heading that way in a major emergency, unless that direction is too dangerous)



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by enlightened_smurf
Once you have control of the roof, you can grow some plants so you can have a continuous supply of food.


I hate to be a bubble-burster, but there's a few minor problems with this strategy:

1.) Where are you going to get the seeds/sprouts/etc. to plant?
2.) Where's your topsoil going to come from?
3.) Can your roof handle the weight of a garden?
4.) Gardens not only take time, they take water, and sometimes STILL die.
5.) It may not produce enough food to appease your helpers.

The first two can be addressed, I suppose, via a trip to the local plant nursery, however, from experience I can say you are looking at at least 3 bags per every 9 square feet of area you are trying to cover with soil. As these bags usually range from 40 to 80 lbs, and you are unlikely to have electricity in the event of Situation X, you're talking about carrying all that from the nursery to the roof of your building.

The third problem may have no solution. I suppose you could support the ceiling from the floor below with some heavy timbers, but again therein lies the problem of finding the timbers and knowing where to place them. Most roofs are not made to accomodate the SEVERAL TONS worth of dirt, water, and veg that make up a modest garden. Meaning, once you got everything just the way you want it, it may just collapse one day and kill several people along with it.

The fourth problem is one of care. Do you know anything about gardening? Soil? Watering conditions? Since high-pressure water systems are definitely not going to be in function during Situation X, how are you going to get water up to them in sufficient quantities? Gravity is working against you in every single aspect. Sometimes, given all these conditions at nominal status, the plants STILL die because of weak genetics or disease or pest infestation or something. However, for almost all food, you are looking at months, if not years, to produce anything edible in any respectable quantity, which brings us to the next problem:

Quantity will not match the degree of help you will require. Since it's s Situation X, one must assume that your abilities will be limited to strictly mundane and primitive conditions (simple tools, no farm tractors, etc). Thus, transporting all the stuff, keeping your garden maintained, etc, will all require the assistance of many people to help you. Now consider the amount of available roof space. Your garden will not produce enough food to accommodate all those people. Depending on what you plant, you are probably looking at an area of 500-1,000 square feet of garden space required, per person, per month. So at best, you're looking at barely feeding yourself in optimal conditions for a normal apartment, to 3 or 4 people in a large apartment building.

Now, finally, consider building density in your area, and the fact that there will almost certainly NOT be a functioning fire departmnt. At some point, a building WILL catch fire, regardless of arson or not. Normally we hardly ever notice these things unless there's a fire truck in our lane, or we live close enough to a freeway to hear the trucks go roaring by. This is because the smoothly running efforts of these brave men and women are constantly putting out fires. Without them, most every building in the city will be gutted and collapse in a matter of hours. An apartment building becomes a deathtrap in this scenario, especially when it's a downtown apartment complex, where tumbling buildings can crash into it, flaming buildings can spread fire to it, and all those barricades and defense measures you've put in place to protect that garden from outsiders have now locked you in a structure that will burn and collapse.



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 06:24 PM
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...

Point taken, Libra. However, I have been thinking about this.

Supports can be built for the roof, as well as a small crane installed with not too much effort (Pulley+strong rope...tie, and get your homeboys to pull). The crane would be much more preferable to haulling stuff up stairs. Balconies could be used on almost all sides of the apartment building for supplementary growning space.

However, the issues of fire and disease appear to obliterate the defensive goodness of the solid-concrete apartment building. Getting burnt to death sucks, and in such tight quarters, the disease would spread quickly.

I suppose if, after the better part of the dust settled the concrete beasts were still standing, claiming one and turning it into a Norman Keep, so to speak, would be an excellent way to secure a small area. Just needs some walls or other barriers to make getting within range to set the fortress afire hard.

DE



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 06:16 PM
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Today I finally got around to taking my second SKS Rifle to the range.

Once again I made a mistake in the position of the gas port control valve. I had it in the intermediate position this time instead of the grenade launcher position as was the case with my first SKS rifle.

I kept having stovepiped brass in the ejection port. I wasnt sure as It initially looked like the gas valve was in the correct position. I thought I had a bad rifle.
AFter about a box of shells and many stovepipes. I rechecked the valve and found it was in the intermediate positon...half way instead of the entire way into the proper shooting position. The stovepipes stopped happening and all was well.

Once again ...operator error. That'll learn me....dummy.

This rifle seems to shoot a bit more noticably accurate than the first SKS. No more jams once I had it in the proper gas valve position.

I'll return again to shoot about a hundred more rounds out of her before putting her away just like the first SKS.

I have removed the bayonets from these two rifles. Not much use for it on a weapon. To me they tend to make the weapon barrel heavy.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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Good to hear, Orange. Good ol' Soviet surplus. Reliable to the death. Is your second SKS another Yugo? Same model, everything? Most of the ones up here are Chinese garbage.

Considering any modifications?

DE



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 05:03 AM
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UP early today. IM on day shift for a week..not my cup of tea. I'm not much of a daywalker.

No I dont plan to modify them other than to take the bayonets off..already done.
My particular intrest in these two rifles is a handy reliable but inexpensive tool..affordable to train on and reasonably accurate. I also understood when buying them...that this is the type of rifle a woman can shoot verses ...say ...my full power M1 Garand...or 1903 Springfield...both in 30.06. I have kept this particular angle in mind ..about a woman though I also own one..M1 Carbine. Also suitable for many women.

I hope to go again ...today to shoot...
Lots to do around here with Spring/summer blooming. This weekend it will be operational checks on my gasoline generators as hurricane season is upon us here in Virginia. Shooting time has become a premium. Will also fit in time to get two slings for them. Then begin looking at different types of fishing line for long term caching.

Gotta shove off to work..good to see you again Deus Ex.

Keep them in the X ring.
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 05:04 AM
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yes it is a Yugo model.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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www.haltonsearch.com...

Something from the local paper. Makes you think, hmmm? I mean, us Canuckistanians are discouraged from defending ourselves, instead hoisting that responsibility on the police. Of course, by the time the police arrived, one woman had a skull fracture, and the crime was done and over with.

DE



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 11:21 PM
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Its late here in Virginia. As usual when I am off I am up standing the night watchs. The electricity has been out for several hours now. I have oil lamps but no local power. Walking around the block it has been only on a couple of streets in this neighborhood. When I am up and normally dressed in my jeans and work shirt..boots..I normally carry on me at all time a mag light , Gerber mulit tool and a set of feeler gauges. If I can help it I am never without a mag light.

I decided this was a opportunity to plug in my newer generator and try it out. It is a 7500 watt generator. My olde one which I still have is a 4000 watt. My 7500 watt is running now and I was not sure it would stabilize this computer but it seems to be running alright. I only have one leg of 115 volts plugged into a outlet box in my kitchen. Not all of my house is on generated power. I only need a few lights and some supplimental outlets. In a real long term emergency power would be carefully considered as to its usage. No need to load up the generator unecessarily.
Services and usage is would be prioritized in a real emergency. Each taking turns so as not to overload the geneartor.

My refrigerator is running and that is one of my main concerns. I will leave the freezer out in the garage to itself till the morning as I wont go into it. If necessary I will plug it in on a seperate dedicated line. Not much outside of the Freezer in the garage needing to be run.

I ran my 4000 watt generator for more than a week off and on after Hurricane Isabel a few years back. It worked out alright except that I necessitated to take it back and forth to my parents house as they had no generator and my mother needes refrigerated medicines. I would run thier freezer for about 5 to 6 hours and then bring it back here to run here also. I will tell some of you ..if you ever have to do this be smart enought to purchase the wheel kits for your generator. They can be heavy to lug around on and off the back of a truck. Also if possible get ramps for on/off loading to a truck. Much easier this way.

During Isabel I stopped the olde 4000 watt generator several times over the 9 days we were without power and changed the oil in it. No substitute for clean oil. My olde one does not have a oil filter or a pump to circulate the oil through the filter so it necessates changing the oil more often. My newer 7500 watt generator has a filter and oil pump. Much better design but nothing that cannot be overcome with proper maintenance. I keep a couple of cases of oil on hand in the correct oil weights. Amazing how many people know nothing about maintaining a piece of equipment like this. This is crucial in long term power outages..can you maintain your equipment.

IF this extended over a longer time ..and the phones were out..even if not so. I would stage one of my spare car batteries in the house. My emergency antenna would be hoisted across a tree limb and my 2 meter amateur radio would go on line. The car battery ran it the whole time during the emergency after the Hurrican Isabel. I metered the use of the radio also..just like the generator. I needed it particulary to learn which locations had open gas stations...as local power was restored such that I did not have to drive around to find it like most unprepared peoples. When I purchased gas ..I used my moped to carry 5 gallon cans one at a time.

As a suppliment to running on emergency power I remain close and up..awake while it is running... if you must snooze..snooze very lightly...standing the night watchs with my good friend..Samuel Colt.
Time to post this..some of you please get back to me and tell me if this sends alright ...under temporary generated power...

Thanks Guys,
Orangetom

PS...the new mag light LED BULB kit definitely runs longer on a set of AA batteries. The light remains bright longer too. I have several of them staged around the house in strategic places in addition to the one I keep on my hip.



posted on Jun, 24 2006 @ 06:46 PM
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Was across the river today and while making some purchases I also consolidated a trip to the local gun store to acquire reloading supplies.

While there I purchased a set of reloading dies for 7.62X39mm also checking one of their reloading manuals for the correct bullets. I purchased 300 count of Speer bullets in .311 diameter and a can of IMR type powder as per the tables. I will work up a load suitable and close to the velocity of the military loads.
However the bullets I purchased were what is called spitzers..or soft points. This is what I wanted verses full metal jackets. They are 125 grain spitzers at .311 inch diameter. Primers I already have a plenty.

I will need to acquire about 500 rounds of empty or new brass which I will eventually purchase from another supplier.

On my way finally to making my own loads for these rifles.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 24 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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Orange, how much does reloading cost, on average? Can you not use your own brass to reload? Is it not time consuming?

DE



posted on Jun, 24 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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THe initial set up for reloading is the primary expense. Once set up and the dies and bullets/powder/primers ..then its fair going from there.
The cost varys with calibers used. Obviously the larger more powerful calibers are going to be more expensive per shot than the smaller and pistol calibers.

.38 specials I can load cheaply and most of those I load as inexpensive lead bullet practice loads..meaning I dont load powerful rounds. This way my brass lasts longer....as does my gun too. I generally do not load powerful loads for this caliber. When I carry this gun I use factory loads.

.357 is a bit more expensive and uses a different powder than .38 specials though I can shoot them in the same guns. Same here ..I dont usually load hot for this caliber. Also carry factory loads when I carry this concealed.

.45 is a bit more expensive than .38s too.

.223 is not that expensive to load for a rifle caliber.

.30.06 is expensive as I load certain cartridges with match grade bullets and do a run out on them with a dial indicator to check concentricity. Time consuming too. One takes more case preparation with match grade reloading. THese bullets...the Serria 168 grain boat tailed hollow point match bullet it about $25 per hundred..unless you buy in bulk bringing down the cost somewhat. I also load soft points or spitzer for this caliber.

The bullets I purchased for my SKS reloads were about $14 per hundred..not to bad and I bought 3 boxes. I will go back at another time for more.

The problem here is that I must acquire some boxer primed cases..to reload. Most of the Eastern Block cases are steel and berdan primed. IF you shine a flashlight down into a empty case of this stuff..you see two holes leading to the primer...on both sides of the primer pocket. My tools are made for a boxer primed case ..meaning it has only one hole dead center of the primer pocket. Steel cases are not that easy to size properly in a die set...necessating lots of lubrication. Brass boxer primed cases are better. I have some cataloges around here from a supplier. I will soon be ordering some.

This is in case ammo becomes scarce like what is happeing right now. I have alot stored away..but it would be difficult to reload with this type of ammo. Steel cases.
The Wolf ammo is cheap....no doubt and I cannot reload for 7.62x39mm ammo as cheaply as they can sell it ..but if for some reason I cannot get it at all...this offers flexability...Options in acquiring ammo. This is the main reason I am instrested in stock up for this cartridge. Flexability and options.
My desire in reloading was also the education that goes with it...proficienty ..to learn to master this type of thinking that goes along with it.

I actually enjoy my time at the reloading bench with my music and cup of coffee...
It can be relaxing for me. I can spend hours at the bench with my stereo going.
I keep a olde car stereo and speakers running off an olde battery in my garage.
The last time it was some 300 empty .38 caliber cases reloaded..from a shooting session with some friends.

I just have to learn what is required in making a suitable load for this rifle..the SKS. THen record it in my charts next to the other calibers I reload and Im in buisness.

If you are going to shoot alot ...and often reloading is the way to go. If you are mostly a occasional shooter ...buy inexpensive ammo like the Wolf brand.
IF possible I choose to do both.

I can tell you one thing for sure Deus Ex. The number of rounds of centerfire ammunition I have put down range..it would have cost me three or four times as much if I was shooting factory ammo.

HOpe this helps.

Thanks,
Orangetom





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