Women got it easy

Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by Duzey
Who's fault is it? The stupid girls who use their sexuality to get what they want or the stupid men who put up with it?

That's like saying we can blame women for being oppressed. Who's fault is it, the men who oppressed the women, or the women who allow it to happen? What advantage did men have the beginning that let them oppress women? I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that statement, but a parallel could be drawn. People are very quick to try and say that women have it the hardest, but they forget about burdens men carry. Unless you're joking, you can't list "men" as something that women have to "deal with."

Men and women both have to deal with a lot of crap. People generally gravitate to argue for the case of women because they've been oppressed for so long. It's the same reason it's easier to jump to the defense of any other "minotiry" (Women are really a majority.) It's easier to look like you're arguing for a "cause" than to look like you're being a sexist/racist.

Alas, I'll leave you with something funny I heard a comedian say on TV today. I can't remember his name, but it went something like "Marriage was obviously created by women. Men, you can't have sex with anyone else the rest of your life, and if it doesn't work out, she gets all your stuff."

Yeah not being able to have sex with anyone else the rest of his life. Sounds like every man's worst nightmare; afterall the more women for one man the better. Being in a loyal steady relationship with just one woman? What a trap. /sarcasm/

Seriously I think women are better off avoiding men all together. They have nothing to offer. You can never trust them completly; they'll never be content with just one woman, they'll always want more. Those dogs.

PS. I'm sorry for insulting dogs.

Originally posted by Herman
I can't remember his name, but it went something like "Marriage was obviously created by women. Men, you can't have sex with anyone else the rest of your life, and if it doesn't work out, she gets all your stuff."

That comedian never saw my seperation and divorce papers. I paid for everything, and got very little in return. Except for my sanity and a little peace and quiet. No complaints here, it was worth every penny.

Neither side has it perfect. Reminds me of the old saying 'A good compromise is one where nobody gets everything they want'.


edited to add: As long as men continue to chase after high-maintenance women, they will be used. There are plenty of women out there who don't act like this.





[edit on 12-4-2006 by Duzey]

Originally posted by ProudCanadian

Yeah not being able to have sex with anyone else the rest of his life. Sounds like every man's worst nightmare; afterall the more women for one man the better. Being in a loyal steady relationship with just one woman? What a trap. /sarcasm/

Seriously I think women are better off avoiding men all together. They have nothing to offer. You can never trust them completly; they'll never be content with just one woman, they'll always want more. Those dogs.

PS. I'm sorry for insulting dogs.

I could address statements like "Men have nothing to offer," but why even dignify such a ridiculous statement with an answer? Surely, if you believe that, you're beyond repair. You make women look bad. I'm sorry, but you do. That is to say I'm sorry for the other women in the world who you make look bad. Not all women are sexist like you, and when I read that, it starts to make me think that they are. Yes, men are worse than dogs. Keep thinking that; it'll get you far.

And if you weren't sure, comedians aren't always serious. Being someone who used sarcasm yourself, I would have thought you could see through that joke.

Originally posted by Duzey

That comedian never saw my seperation and divorce papers. I paid for everything, and got very little in return. Except for my sanity and a little peace and quiet. No complaints here, it was worth every penny.

Neither side has it perfect. Reminds me of the old saying 'A good compromise is one where nobody gets everything they want'.

[edit on 12-4-2006 by Duzey]

Well yeah, I agree that both men and women have it hard. I just don't think that men have it "easier." I don't think that women really have it easier either. Maybe in some aspects, but not all together. And what you said is true about high maintenance girls. I don't like girls who act like that. I mean I'll pay for dinner, but no $500 dollars rings everytime we have a date .

Yeah I know it was a comedian that said that. But it's also very true; men are pigs that never find one women enough. I make other women look bad? How about those doormats that trust their men unconditionally and just accept their men for the dogs they are? Er except dogs are loyal.

BTW yes you are right my attitude towards men is unrepairable.

Well women do have less societal pressures to get good jobs or be good in business, I dont know if its better to be a trophy wife and coast thru life or be a business women and go against the system. So I guess if the womans lazy she can get what she wants easily unlike men or if she wants to be in business she has to try harder unlike men.

Its pretty even Id say

It is obvious some of you have had some serious issues with men in your past. For that, I am sorry; but not all men are dogs. Your general statement is incorrect. In my opinion, society puts more of a burden on men. I’ll give you a prime example: Dick and Jane both worked as cashiers during their college days. If Jane worked as a cashier the rest of her life, no less would be thought of her. Now if, Dick made a career of it, he would be considered a loser; a man that never made anything of himself. Why do you think a male’s life expectancy is less than a woman’s? It’s the constant push for men to become something deemed righteous by our society standards (i.e. Doctor, Lawyer, Architect, Engineer, etc.).

Herman wrote:
"Unless you're joking, you can't list "men" as something that women have to "deal with." "

*****************
And this would be because...why? I have to deal with men everyday of my life. I don't mind that, but I do mind when I have to put up with misogynist statements like the originator of this thread makes.
Even my own husband and his friends believe that most men are jerks, they think men are mostly pretty insensitive, misogynist and self-centered.

Also, it is a fact that women only make about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. THe majority of households today are 2 income households. And if you think that women aren't as pressured at their job because society doesn't place as much emphasis on women's success, think again.
We still have to make a living, especially if we're single. I remember struggling to make ends meet when I was single because secretaries make a pittance and I was a secretary for 4 years. Traditional women's jobs still don't pay as much as men's, i.e. nursing, counseling, teaching, etc.
I don't think women have it any easier than men, in fact I do think it's harder being a woman, especially when we have to put up with moronic statements like "women have it easier". Go look up the word misogynist.

-Forestlady

Here is a set of tables showing Men/Women and the 10 Highest/Lowest Paid Occupations in Canada

Men outnumber women in all 10 of the highest paying occupations in Canada. In the case of senior managers of goods production, utilities, transportation, construction, men outnumber women by more than 11:1. The women in this field earn only 56% of men doing the same work. In every occupation, men are paid substantially more than women.

Women outnumber men in all of the lowest paying occupations in Canada except service station attendants. As babysitters, nannies and parents' helpers, women outnumber men by 47:1. In every occupation men are paid more than women.

Granted this is based on statistics from 1996, but I'm sure things haven't changed much.

[edit on 12-4-2006 by deadboi]

Originally posted by forestlady

And this would be because...why?

Because, it's ridiculous. If you can list men as something you have to "deal with," then men can list women as something they have to "deal with." It's not like women were put here first, and men came along and screwed it all up. We coexist. We have to coexist to reproduce and make sure our civilization doesn't die out. That attitude that women are being oppressed and men have it easier, are lazy, etc., is the same attitude that most likely got a lot of women into the spot they're in now. An employer cannot pay a woman less for the same position as a man simply because she is a woman. Listing "men make more money altogether" as proof that women are oppressed is a logical fallacy. Men bring in more money because the greater population of people with high-paying jobs is men. Not because they're hired for being men, but because that's how it has turned out. Let's use Dick and Jane in another analogy. For your sake, let's make Jane the one with an education. Dick and Jane are both cashiers. Jane has gone through 4 years of business school, and Dick only has a G.E.D. Jane is payed more, and moves through the company faster because she has the qualifications and education - not because she is a woman.

And Proud Canadian - you're only further demonstrating your ignorance by making statements like the ones you've made. Some of you seem to be using the same archaic thinking of which you're accusing the misogynists. Forestlady, I think it's you who needs to look up Misandry.

I think some things for women can be easier, just like I think some things for men can be easier.

Yes, sometimes batting my eyelashes works well to get something done for me.....like carry a 40 lb bag of dog food in....lol Men can get a lot of things done for them too if they add a little sugar.

Come now....

have you ever:

had a period every month right along with bleeding through your clothes while at work ar school and not being able to change your clothes and having cramps, too...

had a baby?

rasied children by yourself while the guy is out partying or just not in the picture...and no child support coming in, either....

fouund out the a guy who was just hired for the same position as yours is making more than you just becasue he is a man???

had a slower metabolism than a mans making it harder to maintain a healthier weight than men???
:bash:

The things you are describing are superficial for the most part IMHO (sorry)

I cannot possibly imagine what on earth you are ranting about. Either you cannot stand the competition from those five or more guys or you too are wont to fall in line and perform like these guys for attention..except you think you deserve to move to the head of the line.

What you describe happens..but you need to understand that much of this is predicated on the dumbness of the male. If you want to be just as dumb ..get in line with the other five or so males.

Stop whining...if this type of female conduct insults you ..dont play by these non rules. Just say no. This type of female conduct is based on the dumbness of the male and there are lots of them out here. Just say no.
Any woman who can wrap you around her finger like that will not respect you. They will use you but not respect you.

I remember years ago..taking a woman to the park and flying a kite that I had mounted on the end of a fishing pole. I saw another woman I knew and said hello and proceeded to fly this kite with this other woman. The next day this other woman said she was hurt that I didnt help her with her flat tire..getting it changed ..how difficult it was. etc etc..yada yada yada.
I told her ..it was her tire and her responsibility..I was having fun with the woman who was helping me fly the kite. What a wimp. I cant stand this type of victimized woman....woe is little helpless me. I got better things to do with my time than listen to this stuff. Our conversation just broke right down. She acted like I owed her something cause she was a woman in distress. Call a tow truck lady.

Wolf of War..you decide if the game is even worth playing or if you want to play...also the rules you will play under. The problem with many of the women you are describing is that the rules are often implicit..not explicit. You need to know this. Also women dont like whiney men ..doing what you do. Get a clue...confidence is what many of them will respond to..not whining.

Here's another story like this. At work in the company job openings a position came up an this woman in our crew applied for the job. She wanted out of the more difficult trade in which we are involved. On interview day she came in dressed to the hilt. Skirt makeup..etc..just like she was going out on Friday or Saturday night.
The interviewer turned out to be a woman. She wanted to know why this woman was dressed up like that. Obviously she didnt get the position. She was dumb enough to tell me the story of what happened. It was difficult to keep a straight face.

This stuff you describe is in school..some women never grow out of it as long as they think they have some biology left on which to cash in. It is still predicated on the ignorance of the male..and their are many of them out here..dont you be one of them at any age. That is my main point.

One more thing..this type of woman you describe also angers many of the women who are really trying to hold thier own..and rightly so. They cheat many of the more honest women with integrity who dont or wont play those type of girl games for power over ignorant men.They learn this type of conduct very young ..in high school or junior high schools. This type of woman is wont to use her wiles to scheme her way through the food chain rather than honest work. They do this to get out of work. It greatly angers honest women with integrity.
You have alot of learning to do Wolf of War. Learn quickly before being cast to the wildlife. Wildlife in its natural habitat.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I get so tired of reading this rubbish about women making less money than men for the same jobs.

I really dont believe that many people think it through. They just believe the standard "victimization mantras." This stuff gets pretty thin after awhile.

Has it ever occured to any of you ...male and female that if women are doing the same job as men ...and doing it for less money that buisnesses would be firing all the men and replacing them with women. Buisnesses most certainly know how to budget moneys/profits..any buisnesses that doesn't today will not be in buisness long. If women are doing the same job for less moneys they would be hiring all women. Its simple...logical..and reasonable. The fact that it isnt happening tells you something very important about the "victimization mantra." Think it through people.
Illegal aliens are hired for doing work cheaply ..you mean a buisness cannot figure this out about women too??? Think do not emote!! Got it now???

Many of you male and female need to be alot smarter than this. I have seen this same standard issue mantra for many years and watch men sit in mute dumb ignorance letting this play through in silence never thinking outside of the standard preconditioned victim settings.
This is a example of a dogma being allowed to play through by implicitness not explicitness. It is cheap victimization politics.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Cherish
Come now....

have you ever:

had a period every month right along with bleeding through your clothes while at work ar school and not being able to change your clothes and having cramps, too...

had a baby?

fouund out the a guy who was just hired for the same position as yours is making more than you just becasue he is a man???

had a slower metabolism than a mans making it harder to maintain a healthier weight than men???
:bash:

The things you are describing are superficial for the most part IMHO (sorry)

That's ignorant logic. Men have their fair share of problems as well.

About this part:

rasied children by yourself while the guy is out partying or just not in the picture...and no child support coming in, either....

I'm tired of that B.S. That isn't the norm. In actuality, the majority of households in America have the male as the "bread winner." I could just as easily say "Have you ever worked your ass off all day long just to come home, try to relax a little, and have your wife nag you about housework? Have you ever earned all of the money just to have it spent by someone else?"

I wouldn't say that, though, because it's stupid. It would be ignorant to assume that while I was at work, the woman isn't at home or at her job also doing work.

I remember a few years ago, me and my g/f both phoned up to apply for a job, one after the other. It was a basic office job, nothing special.

She rang first, got the usual "Sure, name, adress, be here at this time for an interview".

Then I rang, straight after. "Sorry sir, all our vacancies were taken last week".

Hmm. No one has a monopoly on sexism, it's rife on both sides. I have to say, ProudCanadian, if a male took your attitude and started spouting "Women are worthless, useless things that are no better than slugs", there would be plenty of ladies protesting and shouting "Chauvinist scum!". Why is it okay for you to do it? Because your a female? I don't think so, I'm all for equal rights, if that means "equal", not "Give us your rights, and then give us extra rights, and then shut the hell up".

Originally posted by ProudCanadian

Originally posted by Herman

Originally posted by Duzey
Who's fault is it? The stupid girls who use their sexuality to get what they want or the stupid men who put up with it?

That's like saying we can blame women for being oppressed. Who's fault is it, the men who oppressed the women, or the women who allow it to happen? What advantage did men have the beginning that let them oppress women? I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that statement, but a parallel could be drawn. People are very quick to try and say that women have it the hardest, but they forget about burdens men carry. Unless you're joking, you can't list "men" as something that women have to "deal with."

Men and women both have to deal with a lot of crap. People generally gravitate to argue for the case of women because they've been oppressed for so long. It's the same reason it's easier to jump to the defense of any other "minotiry" (Women are really a majority.) It's easier to look like you're arguing for a "cause" than to look like you're being a sexist/racist.

Alas, I'll leave you with something funny I heard a comedian say on TV today. I can't remember his name, but it went something like "Marriage was obviously created by women. Men, you can't have sex with anyone else the rest of your life, and if it doesn't work out, she gets all your stuff."

Yeah not being able to have sex with anyone else the rest of his life. Sounds like every man's worst nightmare; afterall the more women for one man the better. Being in a loyal steady relationship with just one woman? What a trap. /sarcasm/

Seriously I think women are better off avoiding men all together. They have nothing to offer. You can never trust them completly; they'll never be content with just one woman, they'll always want more. Those dogs.

PS. I'm sorry for insulting dogs.

Why do you hate men so much, you can talk to me. I am a 13 year old CHILD?

Also, you might want to call men chimeras, because you say they are Pigs, then Dogs

Originally posted by Cherish
Come now....

have you ever:

had a period every month right along with bleeding through your clothes while at work or school and not being able to change your clothes and having cramps, too...

had a baby?

rasied children by yourself while the guy is out partying or just not in the picture...and no child support coming in, either....

fouund out the a guy who was just hired for the same position as yours is making more than you just becasue he is a man???

had a slower metabolism than a mans making it harder to maintain a healthier weight than men???
:bash:

The things you are describing are superficial for the most part IMHO (sorry)

Well, that can be true in some occasions. But the opposide (principle) is true on other occasions.

For instance I know a few people who couldn't become Flight Attendants because they were male.
Or what if the Wife was goging out to parties, or going shopping ever 10 seconds, spending the hard earned money (earned by the male)?

Please don't generalize.

[edit on 13/4/06 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

[edit on 13/4/06 by JimmyCarterIsSmarter]

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I get so tired of reading this rubbish about women making less money than men for the same jobs.

I guess the statistics that I linked to are just a pack of lies then.

Originally posted by Herman
That's ignorant logic. Men have their fair share of problems as well.

Women wins hands down when it comes to crap in their biology, to say otherwise is being ignorant. As a guy about the worst thing we have to put up with is morning wood.

.

Well, some women have it easier.

My wife for one; I try to make her life as easy as I can.



Seriously, though. This whole argument is naught but a thin veneer of 'victimology' covering a deeper misogyny. When you're talking about 51% of the population, just about any generalization you make will be a bit ridiculous.

Do women have it easier? Some do. But so do the corresponding males in the same categories: The rich ones, the "pretty" ones. The ones who have the personality to work the system for all of its perks.

The rest of 'em, though, have to wait tables and scrub toilets and work on the line down at the plant. Hardly "easier." And hardly about their gender, either; since more and more men are doing those exact jobs.

I remember a quote from Beavis' friend, back in the early 90's:

"Dude. If I woke up tomorrow with a woman's body, with breasts and all, I wouldn't even leave the house for like a week!! Huh huh huh. Dude!"

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Has it ever occured to any of you ...male and female that if women are doing the same job as men ...and doing it for less money that buisnesses would be firing all the men and replacing them with women.

Not neccessarily.

The last company I worked for was a small company, averaging just over 200 employees. The upper management there was "old school". There were many comments made over beers on business trips that a male always had to go on a trip with a female(s) because they couldn't make "sound" business decisions when a snap judgement was called for.

These same women with "poor judgement" were paid approximately $10,000 less to start in the same position with the same education and qualifications that the men were that were in the same department. There was alot of closed door meetings for a couple of weeks over it because two of the women went to the president of the company and complained.

These two women were the ones that did the majority of the production line supervision and were on the shop floor much more often than their male peers.

The president's answer to the two women ended up being that he could trust them in the home plant to make things run smoothly, but not in one of the other sister plants. He could trust the men, though.

Now this is part of a publicly traded company, and this happened in late 2004. The two women could have filed suit, but chose not to for personal reasons known only to them.

Remember too that companies have to abide by EEOC rules so it would be hard to have an all male company or all female company. I know that April (for whatever reason) was our "balancing month" to hire in more minorities if there were vacancies.

This company may not be the norm, and I will admit that I only have experiences like this with ONE company that I work for, but to say it doesn't happen is untrue I think.

JDub