Many Masons are quite simply in the dark.

EP--It is quite obvious that many non-Masons are in the dark.

CN--Here in California, it's Initiated, Passed, and Raised, in that order.

Ah thanks WS.

Now to get back on topic, here is where we are.

EP made the claim that in the past he was “tapped” by an order of Freemasonry. EP uses the term “illuminated” to describe being taken into this order.

Based on this personal experience involving a probably renegade Masonic lodge, EP proceeds to condemn the whole of freemasonry and every single mason. – claiming that they are in the dark and unaware of their true rulers.

Now given the facts of this case, can we make such a conclusion? Can Mason be expected to keep up with every single lodge, or be accused of being "in the dark." IMHO, No.

Yeah, I have to agree. A single, lonely shred of supporting evidence would be just the thing to kickstart these Freemasonry/Illuminati/Reptilian Overlord discussions beyond the initial stages of "A Freemason kicked my dog"...

Was that the same lodge as your friends or a regular lodge?

Actually it was a different lodge it was interestingly enough a prince hall mason who I was in touch with. Which is even more interesting because I am not black. Go figure.

And some lodges seem like the typical boring business club. Different types of Lodge have evolved and are targeting different demographics. (I once ask on this board about Masonic names, because I was wondering what type of Lodge did this, so far I know that official masonry doesn’t have any.)

Interestingly enough in the masonic temple around the corner from me has six known not secret lodges that meet inside of it. I don't know what the different lodges are all about all I know is that there are six.

I’ve thought of started a thread for this, but maybe it isn’t developed enough yet, so I’ll just ask it here. (Since I think it could be on topic here)

Can anyone give an example of a modern* policy that could be instated through Masonry.

*So no French revolution crap.

Let's say one of the “evil” masons wanted to institute a policy, let’s keep it simple, say “Every mason will henceforth start eating at least 2 apples a day.”

How long would it take for every Mason on this board to begin eating 2 apples a day?
Would that even be possible? Would UGLE have such a power?

Edit: removed [sup][/sup] tags. is there a footnote tag in XMB?

[edit on 14/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

That could be because I personally am sort of dim-witted. The BOTA offers an actual academic course in the mysteries, which makes it all a bit easier to apprehend, and to put into context. Some masons, however, have learned the same things from Masonry alone (Pike is a good example, as the only other society he belonged to outside of Masonry was the Odd Fellows).

Ok that is one theory, that Pike became illuminated because he was smart, and that you did not because you were "dim-witted". Do you personally know people who were in this first catagory, that were illuminated purely through conventional public(of corse not fully public) masonry?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


How long would it take for every Mason on this board to begin eating 2 apples a day?
Would that even be possible? Would UGLE have such a power?

It would not be possible, and the Grand Lodge would not have such power.

The only legislation that Grand Lodge can enact would concern the laws of the Fraternity itself. The only personal demands the fraternity makes on its individual members is that behave in a moral manner. They could not tell us what to eat, and if they tried, we'd all of course resign, telling them what to do with their two apples.

As an example of what Grand Lodge really does:

A few years ago, the Constitution of the Grand Lodge in my Jurisdiction required all candidates to be at least 21 years old. A Brother present at Grand Lodge Sessions moved that it be lowered to 18, which was seconded. Because if passed it would require amending the Constitution, the motion had to be held over to the following year.

The next year at Grand Lodge, the motion was put on the floor, discuseed, and voted on. The constitutional 3/4 majority present approved the motion, and the Grand Master declared the motion carried. This is the sort of legislation that happens at Grand Lodge.

Originally posted by Spatacus

Ok that is one theory, that Pike became illuminated because he was smart, and that you did not because you were "dim-witted".

Actually, I was at least partially joking. I was a member of the Builders of the Adytum before I became a Mason. Pike's "Morals and Dogma" is on the BOTA recommended reading list, so I went to the library and checked out a copy (at the time, I didn't know much about Masonry at all).

After reading M&D, I was impressed, to say the least. It's easy to see that if all men were to live by the ideals expressed in that great work, the world would be a much better place; and also, the book has much of the esoteric and mystical, in its study of the Pythagoreans, Platonists, and Qabalah, all of which I was studying at the time in school as well as in BOTA. Before long I petitioned a local Lodge, was made a Master Mason, and immediately entered the Scottish Rite that was so beloved by Brother Pike.

During my initiation into the several degrees, I was struck with the similarity in symbolism with BOTA, and began to decipher Qabalistic and deeper philosophical meanings that may not have been readily apparent to the other candidates. But again, this isn't because of any superior intellect on my part, but simply because I was already deeply engaged in the study of something similar.

Do you personally know people who were in this first catagory, that were illuminated purely through conventional public(of corse not fully public) masonry?

Possibly, but it's hard to say. In Pike's time, the occult mysteries were still very secretive. Today, anybody can go to Barnes and Noble and pick up a book by Regardie or Crowley, or a host of others. These days, anyone with such interests have almost unlimited resources. In "Heredom", published annually by the Scottish Rite Research Society, are found scholarly papers written on these subjects by our membership. Almost always, when the subject of occultism comes up, the author will note in his bibliography a reference to Regardie or Case or any other occult author they may have been influenced by outside of Masonry.

So, in a sense, I sort of doubt anyone has gained a full adeptship in Masonry alone, at least in modern times. All such students of occultism are certain to learn much, if not most, from non-Masonic scholars.

M.L

Why would you want to pick up a book by Crowley?

"The most evil man in the world!" said the press.

AND

"I am the most evil man alive", said Crowley.


great!...enjoy



It's not a game M.L. one day you will learn how serious it all is..
He really was evil. Question is, are you?

I thought you said you had me on ignore. How much more credibility can you stand to lose?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I thought you said you had me on ignore. How much more credibility can you stand to lose?

I need Light entertainment from time to time...

[edit on 14-3-2006 by Edelweiss Pirate]

Um ML,

You say not to trust this Samael guy too much, right? I think Crowley was just a master of intellect and I'm more worried about this Samael fella being an imposter because of what he claims to be. Crowley never hid the fact that he was creepy, so I'm not so worried about him. But what does your gut tell you about Samael in this little video clip?

www.gnosis2002.com...(corto).wmv

ML, you said you thought Samael was a black Magician? Honestly dude, after watching this video, I agree that there may be something very disturbing about him. Sorry to stay off topic, btw.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Samael Aun Weor is a false teacher and a black magician. I would be extremely wary of anything he said.

Coming from someone who more or less defends the teachings of Aleister Crowley.

Are you being sarcastic?

I thought it was you who said that the terms "Black Magic" and "White Magic" are only utilized by the profane?

Originally posted by markusjharper
Crowley never hid the fact that he was creepy, so I'm not so worried about him. But what does your gut tell you about Samael in this little video clip?

www.gnosis2002.com...(corto).wmv

ML, you said you thought Samael was a black Magician? Honestly dude, after watching this video, I agree that there may be something very disturbing about him.

What is it that is disturbing about that clip?






[edit on 18-12-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
I thought you said you had me on ignore. How much more credibility can you stand to lose?

The question is does he have any left to lose.

My Masonic opinion of Pike is that he was a typical geriatric blowhard who wrote a big fat book and had to be recognized for it by his own brothers in the SJ. I have a copy and it makes a good sleep aid !

We follow different paths ML but we are still brothers.

I wrote a thread here about Masonic telepathy. Good arguments were presented but none which convinced me, so I kept looking for information.

Anyway, here's a diagram from an excellent book by Maurice Cottrell called The Tutankhamun Prophecies:



The author describes how dogs for example are not able to shut out the emotions of their owners. Our brains are stronger and on 'transmit' mode for dogs, and it is this way for non-telepath humans versus telepath humans. I believe that telepathy is real and in use by Masons in a structured way. All this talk about royal bloodlines means little because essentially telepathy = proof of royal blood and if you can't do it, you aren't aware of any of the workings on that level.

Anyway at the center of the craft, where telepaths work, the GOOD telepathic Masons are deceived because they don't realize the dark Masonic telepaths can hide their thoughts from their upright telepathic brothers. This explains why some of them are 100% certain that evil cannot infiltrate the lodges; They are utterly certain would be able to sense it telepathically. Didn't the Jedi say that they certainly would be able to sense the Sith also?

Most Masons, are good men charged with protecting some very important truths which would be destroyed if Masons had not existed as brothers. Most of them are good and their brotherhood is based on protecting and preserving the best quality of life for all humans. Anything really fragile (like truth) and which is at risk (in a world of thought-control) does need brothers who will protect it during the dark times in which we live.

But my personal opinion is that more openness is the only way to really convince people that Masonry is noble and good. Failing that, they probably do face persecution in the future, as has happened in the past.

I have no proof for the above statements except for my own personal communication with the world of the dead, and I didn't need Crowley or Sammy to do it.

[edit on 18-12-2006 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Samael Aun Weor is a false teacher and a black magician. I would be extremely wary of anything he said.

Coming from someone who more or less defends the teachings of Aleister Crowley.

Are you being sarcastic?

No, just joking, or rather spoofing some your comments on Crowley.

BTW, those comments are almost a year old!

Okay I get it.


Though I've never said that A. Crowley's(a learned Kabbalist) teachings are totally worthless.

Just that they are heavily tainted with Black Magic, and that everything useful to be found in his books, can be found in the works of other writers who did not add abominable things to the Gnostic teachings.

Though I'm curious as to whether or not the following...:


The Works of Aleister Crowley


...are of his earliest writings?

Originally posted by Tamahu
The Works of Aleister Crowley

...are of his earliest writings?

Earlier yes, earliest no. those three volumes were written in 1905, 1906, and 1907.

Just that they are heavily tainted with Black Magic, and that everything useful to be found in his books, can be found in the works of other writers who did not add abominable things to the Gnostic teachings.

Well for what it's worth... From my point of view Samael Aun Weor teachings "are heavily tainted with Black Magic, and that everything useful to be found in his books, can be found in the works of other writers who did not add abominable things to the Gnostic teachings."

And to tell the truth, he also shows signs of being a cultish leader. for example:

"People does not have a moral responsibility yet. People keeps on changing from school to school and for that reason they fail. The gnostic that leaves the Gnóstic Movement is a complete irresponsible one, an embryo, a fetus without maturity. The mature gnostic would prefer to die before leaving the Gnostic Movement."

Source: El Cristo Social by Samael Aun Weor.

IMNSHO that is scary!

Not to mention juicy quotes like this.

Question: Do gnostic consider virginity as something extremely important?
Samael Aun Weor: ¡HIMEN, how great! Virginity has always been adored by the great ancient esoteric civilizations. Unfortunately in this decadent period of Kali Yuga or black age, everything has changed. "Gringos" hate virginity. All get born in the United States recibe surgery to get their virginity removed.

Source: www.sos-gnosis.org...

What is all that about? Every one born in the US gets their their virginity removed surgically?

But as that is an "anti" site it may be biased and have quotes taken out of context, but I would still like to hear your comments about it.

Tamahu if I may ask, do you read Spanish?


Sorry for going off topic.

[edit on 12/20/2006 by Cug]

Those are certainly valid questions Cug.

I'll try to address them soon.