Originally posted by Rebel_Lion
The US government along with others even go abroad and kill people who talk too much. I could go through a list of people who've said/done too much and ended up dead at the hands of the state for it.
Its said that,
''In America they shoot you, in England they assasinate your character''
I'm not sure which is worse.
Tabs are even kept on libary take outs so people don't get too deep. Either that or you get dubbed anti America for not allowing them to commit crimes in your name... i won't go into the arms industry and distubing their sales in the Carribean like Garnett Silk or Bob Marley did... Could post a list... they even killed that scientist over here in the UK, forget his character! The man even left a note saying he'd be found dead in the woods and voila! He was found dead in the woods at the back of his house... Princess Diana?
...I really don't know what to say to this ball of vague accusations. Bob marley died of cancer. Now, unless you're saying the arms industry has power over space, time, and nature your accusations go from vague to plain ridiculous. "that scientist"? I think you're referring to David Kelly , whose death has been ruled a suicide. It's suspicious, yes, but then again it's not exactly Georgi Markov. Diana died in a car accident. I rather believe that since the driver was shown to have had three times the legal blood alcohol limit, and be prescribed antidepressants.
This is an example of you people feeling threatened and standing up for something ie; a system, you don't understand.
I'm Jamaican... if my people heard me talking about how, ''we're all African'' they'd jump me. Those Af' Ricans sold us out and got played by the Europeans afterward. Most of us still don't like them for it. I know what Af' Rica has given to the world and its a whole heap belive me but I'm not on here saying its all good, I just don't stand for it when I see an injustice being commited and look around to notice how I'm surrounded by people who'd rather deny that injustice and play ignorant to it... watching ''my'' people (I haven't traced my heritage yet) starve rather than give them a fair chance.. Ie; Fair Trade. Amongst other things.
I understand the system. I'm not threatened. You, however, claim extremely tenuous links to the Olmecs. Most people with a little anthropology behind them can dissectit with ease. Here's an example: if Africans were in contact with Olmecs, why don't they have similar feats of engineering, or any signs of MesoAmerican influence on their technology? Why don't the Olmecs have any signs of the ability to work iron, like the Africans had? How about the bow and arrow, which might have led to the survival of their civilization?
I see plenty of injustice, most of it African on African, Jamaican on Jamaican, etc. Fair trade won't do anything put funnel more money into the pockets of folks like Mugabe.
Yes I know that, The Olmecs were there before that and shared knowledge with the Incas and Amer-indians. A people we consider to be our brothers. Back then it was about Knowledge, they shared, it wasn't about money and materialism. The Pagans are another bunch who would agree. Which is why theres so many theories as to what changed in the world. David icke and what not... not that I belive in his stuff.
The Olmecs were natives, not Westerners. They weren't from Africa. So, how can you consider these people your 'brothers'? Is it based on the tenuous works of an africa-centrist?
Back then, knowledge was survival. It wasn't shared. You learned about iron when an iron sword shattered your bronze shield. You learned about gunpowder when an enemy blew down your castle walls with cannon. The Pagans? Which ones, specifically? because, as I recall, pagans killed each other over the same things everyone did back then. Celts killed Celts over territory. Iroquois fought Hurons. Everything was not hunky-dory amongsts the pagans or anyone else for no reason.
Again, you're talking to a Jamaican here.
You feel threatened and with my readings into psycology i can tell its you thats getting hairy. I have a reason to. I only took your quote as my sig to piss you off, its all part of the debate man. You're on here talking abut a topic you dont know about... about people that are starving, people that are dying for no damn reason except peoples ignorance be it that of a fustrated Af'Rican dictator or the governments of the major nations who'd rather those people die than let go of their hold on their economy.
Yep, you're right. You pissed me off. But then again, I tried to stay above namecalling and juvenile tactics.
I know plenty...namely that yes, people are starving. But guess what, it's not the west's fault. That is, unless you're blaming Kenya's drought on the west now, too. I'm not ignorant of the massive humanitarian crisis. But I'm also aware of the west pouring money on the problem for decades, with no visible results. Now, someone's taking the aid, and that's not whitey. It's the people in africa, stealing from each other. In the Kenya thread I linked to, look what Zerotime said:
"I actually see what Souljah is trying to say but I think there is one huge detail being left out. I have been to 37 different countries on business, pleasure, missions trips and when I worked with the Red Cross. There is a huge problem getting people food. It is not as easy as these people are hungry lets give them something to eat – it does not work that way. It would be fantastic if it were that easy. Anyone who thinks it is that easy is either avoiding the big picture or they are super naive. A problem with almost all of these places is that they are extremely poor, uneducated and out of touch locations. These places are suffering for one big reason - the governments, drug dealers and warlords are siphoning (stealing) all of the resources away from the people who need it the most. We can't get food, medicine or supplies to many parts of the world because the people with guns come in and take it away. Why continue to give hard-earned taxpayer money hand over fist to governments that we know are not using it for the people? We can give all the aid in the world to these places and it won't make one bit of good because the leadership of these nations is corrupt and have no desire to help their poor and needy. Of course we could go in with an army and wipe out these corrupt governments and kill these warlords but then everyone would hate us again for invading a country and sticking our noses in where we don’t belong. It is a no win situation – send aid to places where it will be stolen and misused or don’t sent aid and look like jackasses. "
Africans are doing more stealing from Africans than the monolithic, evil west is.
Its the government policies that I don't stand for... its the fact that I am treated as though I am poor or as a criminal when if Af'rica was given back its status, if the media would stop portaying it as some crappy continent that hasn't contributed to society everything would be fine. I think you're kinda messing with Karma when you just bounce things off in the way you do man, i'd like to bring you to a meeting so you can see some of the people there and let you have the floor for a minute. You'd have a rethink belive me.
By who, hmm? Who mistreated you? And, guess what, the media portrayals are light on Africa. Governments let people starve on teh streets. They trade diamonds for guns instead of food. Ever heard of Mohammed Farah Aidid? He deliberately starved his own country, blockading or stealing inbound Red Cross aid. Yeah, you'd like me to talk to Africans, have me tell them what they already know- the government doesn't care about whether they live or die. That the militias and bandits are stealing the tonnes and tonnes of food bound for them.
Subsequently, I'd be shot by their the militias, or the government, or both.
I'm part of a group, a freedom group that does its part for those people, you're on here trying to tell me whats going on when I've sat with those people, my friends wont even talk about half the stuff on here
they break down and cry when they try and talk about it its that bad. lol. This is no free world if you're one of us my friend trust me, we're persecuted something you can't understand. Police stopping me with my old man outside my house... being jumped in the street by drunk English people with nothing else to do... Drug dealers (turkish and others) that think cause my family isn't poor we must deal drugs and feel to shoot me because they don't like Af'Ricans and think bad of us.
Police stopping you? Did they beat you? Did they arrest you for being black? Because if they didn't, the polcie did nothing wrong. I have been subject to a random bag check walking home. I showed them what I had, no big deal, everyone walked away. I can't help what INDIVIDUALS think or do. But, of course, individual responsibility doesn't exist, right? It's the entire west that's wrong.
Its no blame game when you know whats going on and its not your fault, back to my talk about guilt, YOU haven't gone to Af'Rica/the 3rd world and signed contracts with terrible people to export diamonds for weapons have you? Its the GOVERNMENTS of the major nations playing power ball with peoples lives and holding down YOU with the rubbish they put up in the media/schools.
According to the Final ODA Data for 2004 report from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD):
* A combined total of $78.568 billion USD, with subsets as follows:
o The G7 countries donated $56.686 billion USD
o The European Union countries combined donated $42.919 billion USD
o The United States donated $18.999 billion USD
o Norway donated $2.200 billion USD, but were the largest contributors as a percentage of GNI at 0.87%
So...billions of dollars of GOVERNMENT aid from the West go to the third world, which you hold so dear. That doesn't make sense. The west quite literally pours aid into the third world, with NGOs, foreign aid and faith-based charities. So where's it all go?
Canada is a liberal country I've been there, I've got family there, even you guys don't like it when you're dragged into war with the US. It does you no good, eh? (sorry) I was out in CA when 9/11 happened. I was talking to my US cousin abuot what we are now and she hit me back with a whole heap about the Civil war and how England this and England that... woha man... I wouldn't even call myself English but it was the same thing,
''we do this'' and ''we do that! why should america police the world?!''
As though I was commenting on HER. Those people at the top are a seperate class. At least here in the UK, their feet aren't on the ground man. Its their actions, ones that the pubilc don't vote for, that myself and other are against. Not ''whitey''.
Yes, because so many Canadians are in Iraq right now. Tons. I supported action in Afghanistan. Oh, the myth liberal Canada doesn't really exist outside of Toronto, Vancouver and a few other cities. That's why there's a Conservative in power right now, right? You and Souljah have consistently made no distinctions between 'the west' and 'westerners'. Even in this post, you painted the english as the bad guys. In fact, any authority figure can be the target of your ire, I'm guessing.
I think that seems to be the issue with you, lack of the concept of 'individual responsibility'. People are responsible. Those guys that stole your stuff because they're too proud...they still stole. But that doesn't mean every African stole. It means they, the individual, stole. just like they, the african dictators stole. They are responsible. Just like the roving bandits and militias are responsible for the horrible violence.