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Topic started on 1-2-2006 @ 01:28 PM by Souljah
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"Consider the extent to which he Second World War of just 6 years duration has pervaded the consciousness of our developed world for 2 generations
and imagine how 4 centuries of enslavement might have seized the entire social and cultural ethos of an undeveloped continent."
Bob Geldof
Why are there so Many Conflicts in Africa?
Why are there so Many Dead every Year?
Why do People Starve every Year?
Why do they Die of completly Curable Diseases?
Why is this Human Tragedy in Africa SO Ignored?
Why don't the People Talk about it?
If it Happened in Heart of Europe (like for example the Yugoslav Civil-War did) people would call it World War 3, and I am sure that the International
Community would actually DO SOMETHING about the Problem, to Solve it. But Instead, the Ongoing African Suffering, seems to have no end at all.
CONFLICTS IN AFRICA
There have recently been numerous civil wars and conflicts going in Africa, some of which are still going on, including:
- Angola
- Algeria
- Burundi
- Congo
- The Democratic Republic of Congo
- Cote d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
- Eritrea/Ethiopia
- Liberia
- Nigeria
- Rwanda
- Sierra Leone
- Sudan
- Uganda
- Zimbabwe
No less than 28 Sub-Saharan African states have been at war since 1980, as pointed out by
International development organization.
I will not get Into Detail of Each and Every Conflict in this Post - maybe Later, this is more of an Introduction for this Thread.
ROOTS OF AFRICAN CONFLICTS
- The Legacy of European Colonialism
European colonialism had a devastating impact on Africa; the artificial boundaries created by colonial rulers as they ruled and finally left Africa
had the effect of bringing together many different ethnic people within a nation that did not reflect, nor have (in such a short period of time) the
ability to accommodate or provide for, the cultural and ethnic diversity. The freedom from imperial powers was, and is still, not a smooth transition.
- The natural struggle to rebuild is proving difficult
The natural struggle to rebuild is proving difficult and the transit from colonialism to a so-called modern society is not an easy, short one and it
can not be overcome in just few years.
"We must remember that the European agreements that had carved up Africa into states paid little attention to cultural and ethnic boundaries
and ethnic groups had little opportunity or need to form political alliances or accommodations under repressive colonial rule."
Richard H. Robbins, Global Problems and the Culture of Capitalism
- Unequal International Trade; Comparative Disadvantage
Colonialism had thus transformed an entire continent. Vast plantations and cash crop-based, or other extractive economies were set up throughout. Even
as colonial administrators parted, they left behind supportive elites that, in effect, continued the siphoning of Africa's wealth. Thus has
colonialism had a major impact on the economics of the region today. Colonialism in the traditional sense may have ended, but the end results are much
the same.
- Cold War by Proxy; Supporting and Arming Dictatorships in Africa
Throughout the Cold War, major powers such as the USA, the Soviet Union and others supported various regimes and dictatorships. Some possibly
promising leaders in the early days of the indepence movements throughout the Third World were overthrown.
- Corporate Interests, Exploitation, Corruption and Other Issues
Corporate interests and activities in Africa have also contributed to exploitation, conflict and poverty for ordinary people while enriching African
and foreign elites. Just an easy acess to vast natural resources and to fuel rebellions with arms sales.
It is more then obvious, that the ongoing problems in Africa are the result of western imperialism and the legacy of colonialms, which left Africa and
the People that live there in total state of Chaos, endless Civil Wars, Poverty, Famine, Hunger and spreading Diseases.
And the Western MAINSTREAM Media does practicly Nothing in order to Inform the Public or to increase the awerness for this World problem. Most news
can be found on the internet, but other means of mass media are just simply ignoring that.
ARMS SALES
"The five permanent members of the UN Security Council—France, Russia, China, the UK, and the USA—together account for 88 per cent of the
world’s conventional arms exports; and these exports contribute regularly to gross abuses of human rights."
It is no news, that during the Cold War the Superpowers used Africa for Dumping ground for their older and used weapons. It is no news, that USA,
Russia, Europe and China are a big part of this business.
Due to the continuing legacies of its Cold War policies toward Africa, the US bears Responsibility for the cycles of violence and economic problems
plaguing the continent. The ongoing civil war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly Zaire) is a prime example of the devastating legacy of
US arms sales policy on Africa.
At least 3.3 million people, mostly Women, Children and the Elderly, are estimated to have died because of the conflict, most from disease and
starvation, and more than 2.25 million people have been driven from their homes, many of them beyond the reach of humanitarian agencies.
Ofcourse the Real Weapons of Mass Destruction are the Small Arms:
- There are around half a billion military small arms around the world
- They are the major cause of civilian casualties in modern conflicts
- Some 300,000 to half a million people around the world are killed by them each year
Whats more Troubeling are the Following Facts:
 The Arms Industry
From 1998 to 2001, the USA, the UK, and France earned more income from arms sales to developing countries than they gave in aid.
The arms industry is unlike any other. It operates without regulation. It suffers from widespread corruption and bribes. And it makes its profits on
the back of machines designed to kill and maim human beings.
"We can’t have it both ways. We can’t be both the world’s leading champion of peace and the world’s leading supplier of arms."
Former US President Jimmy Carter, presidential campaign, 1976
external image
World Policy Institute
- The United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts
- More than half of the top 25 recipients of U.S. arms transfers in the developing world (13) were defined as undemocratic by the State
Department
- When countries designated by the State Department’s Human Rights Report to have poor human rights records or serious patterns of abuse are
factored in, 20 of the top 25 U.S. arms clients in the developing world in 2003—a full 80%—were either undemocratic regimes or governments with
records of major human rights abuses.
A Ban on Private Ownership of Military Weapons Including Assault Rifles and Grenade
Launchers? Bush Administration Just Says NO!
John Bolton, the U.S. undersecretary of state for arms control, bluntly told the delegates that “The United States will not join consensus on
a final document that contains measures contrary to our constitutional right to keep and bear arms.” He also said the United States, the largest
supplier of arms worldwide, would not support moves to outlaw any arming of rebel groups, nor would it help fund a campaign by human rights groups to
raise awareness of the trade. He also said the U.S. would not support a ban on private ownership of military weapons, including assault rifles and
grenade launchers.
UN Conference on Small Arms
The Conference, held July 9-20, 2001, began on a rather sour tone with the statement of U.S. Under Secretary of State John Bolton, who expressed
the U.S. position on the issue of small arms and the Conference in no uncertain terms. Bolton stressed that the Conference should address only the
illicit transfer of military style weapons, excluding firearms and non-military rifles (the weapons responsible for terrible carnage and destruction
around the world every year).
Bolton bluntly stated the position of the United States in front of the ministerial-level portion of the meeting, describing the U.S. “redlines,”
items unacceptable for inclusion in the Conference plan. Bolton stated that the United States could not support a final Conference document that
included:
- restrictions on the legal trade and manufacture of small arms and light weapons;
- promotion of international advocacy by NGOs and international organizations;
- restrictions on the sale of small arms and light weapons to entities other than governments;
- a mandatory review conference; and
- a commitment to begin discussions on legally binding agreements.
FOREIGN AID
"Trade, not aid" is regarded as an important part of development promoted by some nations.
Meeting the Challenge of Poverty Reduction
Some Northern governments have stressed that “trade not aid” should be the dominant theme at the [March 2002 Monterrey] conference [on
Financing for Development]. That approach is disingenuous on two counts. First, rich countries have failed to open their markets to poor countries.
Second, increased aid is vital for the world’s poorest countries if they are to grasp the opportunities provided through trade.
Recently, there was an EU pledge to spend 0.56% of GNI (Gross National Income) on poverty Reduction by 2010, and 0.7% by 2015. The Problem is, that
lmost ALL Rich nations have Constantly failed to reach their agreed obligations of the 0.7% target. Instead of 0.7%, the amount of aid has been
around 0.2 to 0.4%, some $100 billion short.
For example, USA’s aid, in terms of Percentage of their GNP has almost ALWAYS been Lower than any other Industrialized nation in the world,
though paradoxically in the last four years, their dollar amount has been the highest!
( Why Recent Increases in Development Aid Fail to Help the
Poor)
So according to ODA numbers, the United States are placed on almost the Last place with the percentage of GNI used for Foreign Help - only a slight
change in their Policy, to actually increase that percentage from 0.17 to the desired 0.7%, would SIGNIFICANTLY increase the ammount of Help for those
who Really need it.
Monterrey
: US Will 'Seek Advice On Spending Aid
"Commenting on the latest US pledge [of $10 billion], Julian Borger and Charlotte Denny of the Guardian (UK) say Washington is desperate to
deflect attention in Monterrey from the size of its aid budget. But for more generous donors, says the story, Washington’s conversion to the cause
of effective aid spending is hard to swallow. Among the big donors, the US has the worst record for spending its aid budget on itself—70 percent of
its aid is spent on US goods and services. And more than half is spent in middle income countries in the Middle East. Only $3bn a year goes to South
Asia and sub-Saharan Africa."
Myth: More US aid will help the hungry
- First, US economic assistance is highly concentrated on a few governments. Its focus has nothing to do with poverty
- Second, aid is used as a lever to impose structural adjustment packages on the third world. Since the 1980s US foreign assistance worldwide has
been conditioned on the adoption of structural adjustment packages designed by the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund
- Third, food aid often does not target the hungry. When they hear about foreign aid, many people automatically think of ships loaded with food, but
such aid constitutes only a fraction of total U.S. bilateral foreign aid, hovering around 9 percent during the 1990s
- Fourth, food aid can actually forestall agricultural development that could otherwise alleviate hunger. The inflow of food aid-even in many
emergency cases-has proved time and again to be detrimental to local farm economies. Cheap, subsidized, or free U.S. grains undercut the prices of
locally produced food, driving local farmers out of business and into cities
- Fifth, through military aid, the United States contributes directly to armed conflicts around the world-which are a major cause of hunger and
famine. Since the end of the Cold War, U.S. military aid has declined, yet in 1998 it still totaled $6 billion, outweighing development assistance by
a six-to-one ratio
- Sixth, “good” aid projects serve a public relations, “window dressing” or “fig leaf” function that obscures an uglier reality. Focusing
on the best projects funded by USAID can be misleading as to the overall impact of foreign aid
- Finally, even most “development assistance” fails to help the poor and hungry. Only 18 percent of U.S. bilateral aid is even called development
assistance
After years of studying our foreign aid program, we have learned that foreign aid is only as good as the recipient government. Foreign aid only
reinforces the status quo. It cannot transform an antidemocratic process working against the majority into a participatory government shaped in its
interests.
12 Myths About Hunger
So, there you have it. It is pretty much clear, that the African people are Trapped inside a giant Prison Island called Africa. Foreign Nations and
Goverments - or better yet, CORPORATIONS - have really shown little Mercy or Compassion for the Suffering of this People, and are as we speak,
Exploiting them and their Land further. Maybe the days of colonization have ended, but there is still a silent and deadly new form of
colonization going on, aone that is skilfully crafted, to keep the Rich in Control, and the Poor imprisoned in their own little Prison, that
the Rich have crafted for them.
Puppets of Purse
Strings
Thus, status quo in world relations is maintained. Rich countries like the US continue to have a financial lever to dictate what good governance
means and to pry open markets of developing countries for multinational corporations. Developing countries have no such handle for Northern markets,
even in sectors like agriculture and textiles, where they have an advantage but continue to face trade barriers and subsidies. The estimated annual
cost of Northern trade barriers to Southern economies is over US $100 billion, much more than what developing countries receive in
aid.
And at the End, some Numbers, which tell Alot about the World we live in Today...
Poverty Facts and Stats
- Half the world — nearly three billion people — live on less than two dollars a day
- The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of the poorest 48 nations (i.e. a quarter of the world’s countries) is less than the wealth of the world’s
three richest people combined
- Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names
- Less than one per cent of what the world spent every year on weapons was needed to put every child into school by the year 2000 and yet it didn't
happen
- 51 percent of the world’s 100 hundred wealthiest bodies are corporations
- The wealthiest nation on Earth has the widest gap between rich and poor of any industrialized nation
- The poorer the country, the more likely it is that debt repayments are being extracted directly from people who neither contracted the loans nor
received any of the money
- 20% of the population in the developed nations, consume 86% of the world’s goods
- The top fifth of the world’s people in the richest countries enjoy 82% of the expanding export trade and 68% of foreign direct investment —
the bottom fifth, barely more than 1%
- In 1960, the 20% of the world’s people in the richest countries had 30 times the income of the poorest 20% — in 1997, 74 times as much
- The lives of 1.7 million children will be needlessly lost this year [2000] because world governments have failed to reduce poverty levels
- The developing world now spends $13 on debt repayment for every $1 it receives in grants
- A few hundred millionaires now own as much wealth as the world’s poorest 2.5 billion people
- The 48 poorest countries account for less than 0.4 per cent of global exports
- The combined wealth of the world’s 200 richest people hit $1 trillion in 1999; the combined incomes of the 582 million people living in the 43
least developed countries is $146 billion
- Today, across the world, 1.3 billion people live on less than one dollar a day; 3 billion live on under two dollars a day; 1.3 billion have no
access to clean water; 3 billion have no access to sanitation; 2 billion have no access to electricity.
- The richest 50 million people in Europe and North America have the same income as 2.7 billion poor people. The slice of the cake taken by 1% is
the same size as that handed to the poorest 57%.
- The world’s 497 billionaires in 2001 registered a combined wealth of $1.54 trillion, well over the combined gross national products of all the
nations of sub-Saharan Africa ($929.3 billion) or those of the oil-rich regions of the Middle East and North Africa ($1.34 trillion). It is also
greater than the combined incomes of the poorest half of humanity
- A mere 12 percent of the world’s population uses 85 percent of its water, and these 12 percent do not live in the Third World
Do Not Give the Needy Money: Build Them Industries Instead
With the record of corruption within impoverished countries, people will question giving them money. That can be handled by giving them the
industry directly, not the money. To build a balanced economy, provide consumer buying power, and develop arteries of commerce that will absorb the
production of these industries, contractors and labor in those countries should be used. Legitimacy and security of contracts is the basis of any
sound economy. Engineers know what those costs should be and, if cost overruns start coming in, the contractor who has proven incapable should be
replaced—just as any good contract would require…. When provided the industry, as opposed to the money to build industry, those people will have
physical capital. The only profits to be made then are in production; there is no development money to intercept and send to a Swiss bank
account.
This is not the End - be sure that other posts will Follow...
SOURCES & LINKS:
Control Arms
Center for Defence Information
Stockholm International Peace Research Institut
One World
Arms Sales Monitoring Project
International Institute for Strategic Studies
Campaign Against Arms Trade
SafeWorld
Council for a Livable World
Arms Control Association
UN - Peace & Security throught Disarmament
Oxfam
TTF
Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation
Economists for Peace & Security
Arms Control Association
Los Alamos Study Group
Institute for Democratic Economy
Bretton Woods Project
Food First
Third World Network
Focus on Global South
50 Years is ENOUGH
Communicating Development Research
World Food Programme
Reality of Aid
The Development Group for Alternative Policies
International Crisis Group
Global Issues
Global Research
Challenging Globalization
A Strategic Organization for the End of World Hunger
Poverty Mapping
All Africa
Africa Action
Human Rights Watch - Africa
Amnesty International
Africa Dot Com
African Center for Peace, Education & Stability
Africa - Wikipedia
African Studies - Colombia University
Africa South of Sahara - Stanford University
African Studies - Chicago Universtiy
African Studies Center - University of Pennsylvania
Africa - Open Directory Project
Norwegian Council for Africa
[edit on 1/2/06 by Souljah]
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 01:39 PM by AceOfBase
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...imagine how 4 centuries of enslavement might have seized the entire social and cultural ethos of an undeveloped continent."
Bob Geldof
There were more than four centuries of enslavement but he prefers to just start counting from the time the Europeans entered the picture so he can
blame it all on them.
ROOTS OF AFRICAN CONFLICTS
* The Legacy of European Colonialism
European colonialism had a devastating impact on Africa; the artificial boundaries created by colonial rulers as they ruled and finally left
Africa had the effect of bringing together many different ethnic people within a nation that did not reflect, nor have (in such a short period of
time) the ability to accommodate or provide for, the cultural and ethnic diversity. The freedom from imperial powers was, and is still, not a smooth
transition.
* The natural struggle to rebuild is proving difficult
The natural struggle to rebuild is proving difficult and the transit from colonialism to a so-called modern society is not an easy, short one
and it can not be overcome in just few years.
"We must remember that the European agreements that had carved up Africa into states paid little attention to cultural and ethnic boundaries
and ethnic groups had little opportunity or need to form political alliances or accommodations under repressive colonial rule."
Richard H. Robbins, Global Problems and the Culture of Capitalism
It sounds like he's an opponent of multiculturalism and beleives that people of different races and religions can not live together in peace.
I wonder how he feels about multiple ethnicities living together in Europe and America.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 01:56 PM by Flinx
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
ROOTS OF AFRICAN CONFLICTS
* The Legacy of European Colonialism
European colonialism had a devastating impact on Africa; the artificial boundaries created by colonial rulers as they ruled and finally left
Africa had the effect of bringing together many different ethnic people within a nation that did not reflect, nor have (in such a short period of
time) the ability to accommodate or provide for, the cultural and ethnic diversity. The freedom from imperial powers was, and is still, not a smooth
transition.
* The natural struggle to rebuild is proving difficult
The natural struggle to rebuild is proving difficult and the transit from colonialism to a so-called modern society is not an easy, short one
and it can not be overcome in just few years.
"We must remember that the European agreements that had carved up Africa into states paid little attention to cultural and ethnic boundaries
and ethnic groups had little opportunity or need to form political alliances or accommodations under repressive colonial rule."
Richard H. Robbins, Global Problems and the Culture of Capitalism
It sounds like he's an opponent of multiculturalism and beleives that people of different races and religions can not live together in peace.
I wonder how he feels about multiple ethnicities living together in Europe and America.
I'm not sure where in there he said that multicultralism is bad. He's saying that European powers arbitrarily lumped together people of many
different cultures that traditionally have had problems with each other. It's not just Africa where this happened. Look at the artifical construct of
Iraq. Created by the British in the early 20th century, it pushed together 3 cultures (Shia, Sunni, Kurd) that are fighting with each other.
It was only a strong-armed dictatorial power that kept them from each others throats; first the Ottoman Empire, then the British, then Saddam Hussein.
As soon as the power was removed, things get messy. It's same with European colonies in Africa. It's the same with Yugoslavia in EUROPE.
Colonial powers often created artifical divisions such as in the case of Tutsis and Hutus in Rwanda, giving one group more power and privleges than
the other. They went as far as to give out ethnic identity cards creating an even wider sense of division. Of course you know what all this led to.
en.wikipedia.org...
Multiculturalism in many of these countries hasn't worked because they haven't had what Western countries with diverse populations. They haven't
had time to work out problems, they haven't had the money and resources, and most importantly they haven't had the "freedom".
So, don't try to twist Souljas words into something they're not and actually read some of the material he provided. Or do research on your own.
Wikipedia is a great source for quick info.
[edit on 2/1/2006 by Flinx]
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:03 PM by syrinx high priest
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the saddest part is the main reasons for the lack of international urgency to help are mostly racism and ignorance.
there are some countries that have natural resources to export, but most of them don't. No oil, no aid I guess.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:14 PM by IAF101
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Originally posted by Souljah
Why are there so Many Conflicts in Africa?
Because they have too many guns and not enough jobs.
Why are there so Many Dead every Year?
Because the people who fight dont care about innocent lives. Plus massacres serve as morale boosters for the militias .
Why do People Starve every Year?
Because they dont know how to farm. They dont have enough equipment and resources like fertilizer etc to farm. Another point is that since the world
has been financing their poverty they find it more comfortable to live off the worlds aid than do any work themselves. Or in otherwords they dont want
to grow food. No initiative to do so.
Another point is that there is no proper water management and thus they suffer from perinial drought.
Why do they Die of completly Curable Diseases?
Because they dont know it is curable, they dont maintain hygeine and dont take care of them selves enought. And those who make it to hospitals are
left neglected due to the shortage of staff and resources.
Why is this Human Tragedy in Africa SO Ignored?
Becasue the world is tired of listening to the continious misery campaign by the UN and other agencies and no matter how much they world does their
seems to be no improvement in the region.
Why don't the People Talk about it?
People are sick about this too. You cant expect somebody to keep donating if their is no progress at all. The fact is a nation cannot be built by
others money, the people need to stop dwelling on their misery and get going and turning their lives around. The whole area needs an overhaul, for Ex
if they need education and there are no schools, to build schools there are no materials and to transport material there are no trucks and to fuel the
trucks they dont have a gas stations, there are no roads and so on. So you see the problems are endless. If you start in one place and you will need
to rebuild the whole continent. And while you do this you see the African people stare at you withthe best face of misery they can present. No help,
they just watch.
If it Happened in Heart of Europe (like for example the Yugoslav Civil-War did) people would call it World War 3, and I am sure that the International
Community would actually DO SOMETHING about the Problem, to Solve it. But Instead, the Ongoing African Suffering, seems to have no end at all.
Because there is something to gain for the world if there is a stable Europe. The situation can also be helped because the basic attitude of the
people is different and there is some sense of order.
[edit on 1-2-2006 by IAF101]
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:17 PM by Hamburglar
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
No oil, no aid I guess.
Well that notion would tend to discount the idea of "racism and ignorance" being the primary factors for lack of aid. Which is it?
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:26 PM by AceOfBase
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Originally posted by Flinx
I'm not sure where in there he said that multicultralism is bad. He's saying that European powers arbitrarily lumped together people of many
different cultures that traditionally have had problems with each other. It's not just Africa where this happened. Look at the artifical construct of
Iraq. Created by the British in the early 20th century, it pushed together 3 cultures (Shia, Sunni, Kurd) that are fighting with each other.
He said this ethnic and religious mixing (multiculturalism) was a major source of the problems in Africa and the Middle East.
Should they segregate the immigrant communities in Europe so people from Ethiopia don't have to live next to people from Nigeria? How about
segregating Shia Muslims and Sunni muslims who are living in Europe?
Perhaps the Europeans were naive when they thought people of even slightly different races and religions could live together.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:37 PM by syrinx high priest
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you read this post, and that's all you have to comment on ?
allow me to satisfy your need for clairfication on this. if they had oil, we would be democratizing the beejusus outta them.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:45 PM by AceOfBase
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Originally posted by Souljah
Why are there so Many Conflicts in Africa?
Why are there so Many Dead every Year?
Why do People Starve every Year?
Why do they Die of completly Curable Diseases?
Why is this Human Tragedy in Africa SO Ignored?
Why don't the People Talk about it?
People starve because they are being born at a rate higher that the land can prvide for them and they don't have the abilites to provide for them as
the Americans, Europeans and others provide for themselves.
They die of diseases because they have not developed the Vaccines and other medicines that the European, Americans and others have developed.
They also haven't developed ways of purifying the water like the Europeans, Americans and have have done. Dirty water is one of the reasons people
die.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:47 PM by marg6043
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The struggles in Africa can be attributed to Racism over anything else.
Africa has always been a very profitable place for other nations to rape and take what they want of their resources and for Arm
manufactures to get rid of weapons that are not good anymore and make a profit from them.
It doesn’t matter that the truth is that 9.5 million of refugees and hundreds of thousand has been killed in Africa in conflicts and civil
wars.
The destruction in that continent can be called World War III, but been the black continent and not in Europe other countries turn their heads the
other way.
Because is not profits from wars in Africa but only but the illegal Arm dealers.
While The Niger Delta in Nigeria has everybody’s eyes including US with all the oil that it has could be the richest country in Africa
instead is one of the poorest to the people that live and struggle in the land.
The only people that benefits from the profits of the oil resources is US oil companies and the various factions that protect the US investments over
the needs of the people.
Fraudulent deals and corrupt governments that are allowed as long as they can protect foreign investments from reaping the natural resources that
belong to the population.
Sierra Leone another place rich in Diamonds has been submitted by corporate interest in gross abuses over 50.000 people has been killed since
1991.
The rebel and government alike have done more damage than good.
Ethiopia and Eritrea 30 years of conflict has left the area devastated.
Rwanda genocide has been tagged to ancient tribal hatred but they forget to add that foreign influences in economic and political issues are
the root of the problem including support for corrupted government.
Aids is another growing problem in Africa and the only reason it has world wide attention is because if affect everybody in the world
including the US.
Aids treatments are too profitable for corporations like Pharmaceuticals to do anything about it.
If they can not profit from it they don’t care how many died after all they are not the right color anyway.
The biggest casualties of AIDS are poor people anyway in any industrialized country.
I am very distress by some of the members post that regard the people of Africa as dirty and not clean enough to take care of themselves.
Perhaps if you live in the same circumstances as them you will not be so judgmental.
[edit on 1-2-2006 by marg6043]
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:51 PM by syrinx high priest
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I think part of the point here is if you saw images on TV of Irish or Italian (insert your own heritage here) kids that are 4 feet tall and weigh 20
lbs, with flies buzzing their mouths, you might be singing a different tune ?
maybe ?
maybe you wouldn't say, essentially, they are too stupid and lazy, with no morals or science, to help themselves , so why should we bother ?
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 02:55 PM by AceOfBase
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Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I think part of the point here is if you saw images on TV of Irish or Italian (insert your own heritage here) kids that are 4 feet tall and weigh 20
lbs, with flies buzzing their mouths, you might be singing a different tune ?
maybe ?
maybe you wouldn't say, essentially, they are too stupid and lazy, with no morals or science, to help themselves , so why should we bother ?
So are you in favor of further colonialism in Africa and other places?
It sounds like it.
It sounds like you want to take up The White Man's Burden because they are not able to
take care of themselves.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:00 PM by Souljah
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Originally posted by IAF101
Because they have too many guns and not enough jobs.
Why not PROVIDE them with Jobs instead of Provide them GUNS?
Because the people who fight dont care about innocent lives. Plus massacres serve as morale boosters for the militias .
And lets not Forget, that the Private Compaines who SELL Those Weapons always like to get their Hands on some Prime African Diamonds or African Gold,
to seel them even MORE Guns.
Because they dont know how to farm. They dont have enough equipment and resources like fertilizer etc to farm. Another point is that since the world
has been financing their poverty they find it more comfortable to live off the worlds aid than do any work themselves. Or in otherwords they dont want
to grow food. No initiative to do so.
They do not know how to farm? 
You really are Something mister IAF. Tell me, would YOU know how to farm without any Water? Would you know how to farm in the Extreme Conditions that
are in Africa? Their Lives are not any MORE Comfortable, due to the Help they receive - it would be much, MUCH better if the so-called CIVILIZED west
would help and Bulild basic Agrocultural infrastructure.
Tell me - would there be HOTELS and GOLF COURTS in the Middle of the Desert in Dubai, if they did not have Oil - like most African Nations don't?
Because they dont know it is curable, they dont maintain hygeine and dont take care of them selves enought. And those who make it to hospitals are
left neglected due to the shortage of staff and resources.
What an IGNORANT Answer. How can they Take care of Themselves when their BASIC Needs for Fresh Water are not Met? Do you think that they can
brush their teeth in the morning, while looking themselves in the mirror like you and me can?
PLEASE!
Becasue the world is tired of listening to the continious misery campaign by the UN and other agencies and no matter how much they world does their
seems to be no improvement in the region.
Well, as long as the world is NOT tired of Listening and Saving the People of Middle East......
People are sick about this too. You cant expect somebody to keep donating if their is no progress at all. The fact is a nation cannot be built by
others money, the people need to stop dwelling on their misery and get going and turning their lives around. The whole area needs an overhaul, for Ex
if they need education and there are no schools, to build schools there are no materials and to transport material there are no trucks and to fuel the
trucks they dont have a gas stations, there are no roads and so on. So you see the problems are endless. If you start in one place and you will need
to rebuild the whole continent. And while you do this you see the African people stare at you withthe best face of misery they can present. No help,
they just watch.
And that OVERHAUL could be EASILY done, with just a little more help from the International Community. We are talking about 0.7% of the GDI.
There are more the ENOUGH Resources in this world for EVERYBODY to live good, without any unnecessary suffering, such as the People of Africa have
been going through for half a century.
Where there is a WILL there is a WAY!
Because there is something to gain for the world if there is a stable Europe. The situation can also be helped because the basic attitude of the
people is different and there is some sense of order.
And the World can always Abuse this Continent some more for a Fistful of Profit.
Typical Corporate Mentality.
AND I would also use this Opportunity to THANK to all of the MEMBERS from my Heart, for putting such Great Tags (yet Again) on my Post, like -
bashing us, rant, again - Great job Guys! You have Truly proven that you are Caring Members of this Community which DENY IGNORANCE at your
single step! Keep up the GREAT JOB in the Future! 
[edit on 1/2/06 by Souljah]
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:01 PM by madnessinmysoul
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
...imagine how 4 centuries of enslavement might have seized the entire social and cultural ethos of an undeveloped continent."
Bob Geldof
There were more than four centuries of enslavement but he prefers to just start counting from the time the Europeans entered the picture so he can
blame it all on them.
i think he's talking about the huge scale of the slave trade. before the white man was involved with enslaving africa the africans took each other
prisoner, and some of the prisoners were slaves. the white man also did that in europe with other whites. the native americans had a similar system
until the white man made it increase exponentially.
so the white man may not be the cause of slavery, but europe caused the explosion of mass slavery and crosscontinental slavery in which many africans
died before they got to america.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:08 PM by Attero Auctorita
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I think part of the point here is if you saw images on TV of Irish or Italian (insert your own heritage here) kids that are 4 feet tall and weigh 20
lbs, with flies buzzing their mouths, you might be singing a different tune ?
maybe ?
maybe you wouldn't say, essentially, they are too stupid and lazy, with no morals or science, to help themselves , so why should we bother ?
So are you in favor of further colonialism in Africa and other places?
It sounds like it.
It sounds like you want to take up The White Man's Burden because they are not able to
take care of themselves.
Agreed. Why should we have to step in and fix everything for them? As Americans our forefathers gathered behind great leaders to revolt versus what
they perceived as injust rule. Can those who live on the continent of Africa not do the same? And if they cannot, why do they deserve its rewards? If
people cannot throw down petty differences to join and create for themselves a better government then they do not deserve to reap its rewards. Africa
will continue to have it's current problems until they decide as humans that they should band together to create a better society. And this is only
something that Africans can do themselves.
- Attero
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:14 PM by madnessinmysoul
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Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
Originally posted by AceOfBase
Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I think part of the point here is if you saw images on TV of Irish or Italian (insert your own heritage here) kids that are 4 feet tall and weigh 20
lbs, with flies buzzing their mouths, you might be singing a different tune ?
maybe ?
maybe you wouldn't say, essentially, they are too stupid and lazy, with no morals or science, to help themselves , so why should we bother ?
So are you in favor of further colonialism in Africa and other places?
It sounds like it.
It sounds like you want to take up The White Man's Burden because they are not able to
take care of themselves.
Agreed. Why should we have to step in and fix everything for them? As Americans our forefathers gathered behind great leaders to revolt versus what
they perceived as injust rule. Can those who live on the continent of Africa not do the same? And if they cannot, why do they deserve its rewards? If
people cannot throw down petty differences to join and create for themselves a better government then they do not deserve to reap its rewards. Africa
will continue to have it's current problems until they decide as humans that they should band together to create a better society. And this is only
something that Africans can do themselves.
- Attero
except the americans of the revolution where rich white men with the democratic influence of the native cultures they destroyed. the white americans
were never at any point exploited to the point of any african nation. look at congo, the most oppressed part during colonial times in africa, and how
chaotic it is right now.
africa has been exploited, and now the nations that exploited them have to pay some sort of damages or at the very least assist them in fixing the
problems.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:17 PM by syrinx high priest
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OK, this thread is going to get real heated real soon, so this is my last post
all I'm saying is attitudes in the west would be different if the suffering were white or had resources we needed
thats all I'm saying
peace
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:24 PM by marg6043
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Africa has always been influence by foreign forces that has nothing to do with helping the population of that country.
US are not behind in the list.
Comparing Africa to how our government was form is just very inadequate and completely out of context.
US didn’t have tribal issues or castes to deal with when the first pilgrims came to this land.
The only tribal issues were with the inhabitants of the land.
Africa is a complex continent rule by ancient tribal groups, with their own interpretations of laws, rules and believes.
To claim that they can help themselves is they want too is too much to ask, the foreign influences in that continent has already damage the
possibility for them to do just that.
The people in Africa are just trying to survive.
While the younger generations have not choice but to joint militant groups to fight back for the benefits of others.
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:24 PM by Souljah
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
People starve because they are being born at a rate higher that the land can prvide for them and they don't have the abilites to provide for them as
the Americans, Europeans and others provide for themselves.
No - People starve because they do not have enough FOOD. People are hungry not because of lack of Availability of food, or over-population, but
because they are too poor to afford the food.
One billion people live on less than a dollar a day, the official measure of poverty - yet some 1.2 billion suffer from obesity. What does that tell
you Ace? Is there Something Wrong in the World Today, or am I just Imagining things?
Let me tell you some FACTS about Causes of Hunger:
Causes of Hunger are related to Poverty
- Over 9 million people die worldwide each year because of hunger and malnutrition. 5 million are children
- Meanwhile Food wastage is HIGH:
* In the United Kingdom, "a shocking 30-40% of all food is NEVER eaten"
* Overall, £20 billion (approximately $38 billion US dollars) worth of food is THROWN AWAY, every year
* In the US 40-50% of all food ready for harvest NEVER gets eaten
- The Effect impacts of this waste is not just financial - Environmentally this leads to:
* Wasteful use of chemicals such as fertilizers and pesticides;
* More fuel used for transportation;
* More rotting food, creating more methane — one of the most harmful greenhouse gases that contributes to climate change
Wow, thats so NICE!
They die of diseases because they have not developed the Vaccines and other medicines that the European, Americans and others have developed.
They also haven't developed ways of purifying the water like the Europeans, Americans and have have done. Dirty water is one of the reasons people
die.
Tell me - they did not DEVELOP Machine guns, or Tanks or Rocket Propelled Granades, yet they still get them without any problems. How come? Why can
they get tons of Weapons, but not tons of Water filters to purify their Water - or at least Tons of Fresh Water? Is that so Hard to do?
And I have seen you use that songs of Kipling to Defend the White Mans Imperialism, which has given us the World we have today. Now tell me, was he
only a satirist or also a RACIST?
The White Man's Burden
The White Man's Burden may be read as supporting the U.S. colonization of the Philippines and other former Spanish colonies in his poem or,
alternatively, as a warning to the United States of the cost of imperial adventure. Although Kipling's poem mixed exhortation to empire with sober
warnings of the costs involved, imperialists within the United States latched onto the phrase "white man's burden" as a euphemism for
imperialism that seemed to justify the policy as a noble enterprise.
Well, you don't have to tell me how you Understand this Poem and in which Way you use for your Arguments.
As mister Mark Twain remarked:
"The White Man's Burden has been sung. Who will sing the Brown Man's?"
[edit on 1/2/06 by Souljah]
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reply posted on 1-2-2006 @ 03:44 PM by IAF101
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Originally posted by Souljah
Why not PROVIDE them with Jobs instead of Provide them GUNS?
Because they dont have any marketable skills.
And lets not Forget, that the Private Compaines who SELL Those Weapons always like to get their Hands on some Prime Afraican Diamonds or African Gold,
to seel them even MORE Guns.
As you say when there is a will there is a way. If not the big companies then some other companies will sell arms. Its not the people who sell who are
at fault, it is the people who buy. If they stop buying nobody will sell to them.
Its that simple, blaming the West is not the excuse for all your problems.
Typical Socialist nonsense.
They do not know how to farm?
You really are Something mister IAF. Tell me, would YOU know how to farm without any Water? Would you know how to farm in the Extreme Conditions that
are in Africa?
Like they did all the thousands of years before their were electric pumps and dams and pipelines for water. And again, when there is a will there is a
way!
Also the people of Saudi Arabia farm, they could do it that way.
Their Lives are not any MORE Comfortable, due to the Help they receive - it would be much, MUCH better if the so-called CIVILIZED west would help and
Bulild basic Agrocultural infrastructure.
They are living now because of the Aid they get not becasue of their own efforts at keeping a steady job.
Also why should the West help? Why cant the East help or the North or the South ? Why they West? And what in it for the West? Why should the West be
the purse of the world that every is cut by every theif so that they can procrastinate the inevitable ??
Tell me - would there be HOTELS and GOLF COURTS in the Middle of the Desert in Dubai, if they did not have Oil - like most African Nations don't?
Yeah there would be. There were hotels in some arab cities before they found oil. But what you mean is the general wealth, then I would say no.
without oil they wouldnt have a lot of the comforts that they have now.
What an IGNORANT Answer. How can they Take care of Themselves when their BASIC Needs for Fresh Water are not Met?
Oh Stop your drama.
Are you saying that for thousands of years they just lived without Fresh Water and now htey realise that there is no Fresh Water ? How did they live
before for millenia, I suggest they utilize the same resource for fresh water.
The West is not GOD. We cant bring water down from the heavens. They must do with what they have. IF they are incapable of doing so then no one is
responible for their fate.
Well, as long as the world is NOT tired of Listening and Saving the People of Middle East......
Again the same banal platitudes !
This is about Africa isnt it, why bring up the Middle east ? If you want to criticise the west do so openly.
And yes the Middle east needs saving and the West saved it. Plus the West gets something back too. Africa cant give anything.
And that OVERHAUL could be EASILY done, with just a little more help from the International Community. We are talking about 0.7% of the GDI.
Where there is a WILL there is a WAY!
And Why exactly should the West give ??? Is there some contract that Western nations have signed that says that all the worlds misery is the Wests
burden ?
Here is another saying for you; Self help is the best help.
And the World can always Abuse this Continent some more for a Fistful of Profit.
Profit ? Where is that ?
Just because a company sell something doesnt mean it is "abusing" the seller. If the selller feels 'abused' they need not buy. No one is forcing
them to buy anything. They are independent, they should be able to take care of themselves. After all isnt the popular perception that the West is
too interventionist. Well here is some isolationism .
AND I would also use this Opportunity to THANK to all of the MEMBER from my Heart, for putting such Great Tags (yet Again) on my Post - bashing us,
rant, again - Great job Guys!
Maybe if you had been more balanced and said howmuch Slovenia contributed to the Africa other than the 300 million it spends on buying weapons and
financing foreign trips for its soldiers. They probably Africa might have been batter off.
You have presented the facts and blamed the West as if it is the Wests duty to give aid, which is not so. What the West is doing is out of kindness
not compulsion dont forget that.
Here's another saying; Dont count the teeth of a gift horse.
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