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Muslim's Urged to kill Westerners.

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posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by sal88

Originally posted by vincere7
Interesting, average women are not allowed to study the Quran in depth nor allowed to discuss such. You are however, allowed to be taught by your husband, or in daily prayer. I could provide many verses, which to post for you to dispute would not only be insulting, but disrespectful in general. The listing of verses has been done many times on this forum by myself personally and will only lead to arguments. Besides you are a woman and not eligible to dispute such. If this answer is prejudice then you find Islam prejudice as any main cleric will agree that women are not allowed to discuss the Quran for theoretical purpose,


So you being a Muslim means you can't teach a woman about the Qur'an?


First off I'm not Muslim, secondly that is contradiction to what was written. Women are encouraged to read Quran and Islamic sacred text, but they absolutely are not allowed to make comment on such, nor give their own viewpoint of the text. Now if you're not a Muslim woman then this has no bearing on you, but if you are then you are in direct violation and in fact in heresy to do so,




posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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First off I'm not Muslim, secondly that is contradiction to what was written. Women are encouraged to read Quran and Islamic sacred text, but they absolutely are not allowed to make comment on such, nor give their own viewpoint of the text. Now if you're not a Muslim woman then this has no bearing on you, but if you are then you are in direct violation and in fact in heresy to do so,

so in fact by not posting so called 'insulting' verses of the qur'an which was one of your excuses for not posting them, you are actually abiding by and therefore respecting the religion of Islam? thats a comfortable position to take.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by vincere7
Interesting, average women are not allowed to study the Quran in depth nor allowed to discuss such. You are however, allowed to be taught by your husband, or in daily prayer. I could provide many verses, which to post for you to dispute would not only be insulting, but disrespectful in general.


I'm not familiar with these verses, do you mind sending me an U2U on these verses so I can see please, I didnt know they're were any that restricted the study of the Qur'an to women.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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waste someone elses time sal.

On the other post,

As usual a sentence is taken out of context and used to widen the gap. I said "study in depth." I also posted a follow up as to Quran commentary by women in that it's not permissible, although reading such is encouraged,



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by vincere7
waste someone elses time sal.


ok, what you said was basically BS. anyone can study the Qur'an as in depth as they want, man or woman, by a basic definition of Islam for starters. women can't study the quran? how does that work? where did u get that information from?



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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Well, from my limited understanding, there is alot of debate within the muslim community about women being permitted to interpret Islamic sources and lead prayers. I'm not really putting a dog in this fight, but no matter how one views Islam and the quran, it is ignorant to deny that women are generally not held on the same level as men.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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Yes women are not allowed to be on the same page as men in Islam. They are able to study the Quran but cannot speak in public of text, or discuss such as this is left to men. Also the Quran is one body of text, clerics of course are not going to allow all readings to be available, thus - learn from your husband or study what is available. If you were to compare say the Bible or a ministry, a minster like Joyce Meyer does not exist in Islam. Women are not allowed to teach on text or communicate such. They can write books about Islam, but not digress text. I can say without a doubt most Muslim women could probably learn more on the internet about text than locally, from family, or the local mosque. But then again she could not voice her findings or discuss such,



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by vincere7
Yes women are not allowed to be on the same page as men in Islam. They are able to study the Quran but cannot speak in public of text, or discuss such as this is left to men. Also the Quran is one body of text, clerics of course are not going to allow all readings to be available, thus - learn from your husband or study what is available. If you were to compare say the Bible or a ministry, a minster like Joyce Meyer does not exist in Islam. Women are not allowed to teach on text or communicate such. They can write books about Islam, but not digress text. I can say without a doubt most Muslim women could probably learn more on the internet about text than locally, from family, or the local mosque. But then again she could not voice her findings or discuss such,


If the Qur'an claims to be the word of God then I see what you just said as a contradiction. I won't deny that there are a lot of thick Muslims out there, too many, who think that the backwards wahhabist way of thinking is the way to go about it, ie. not letting women study the Qur'an, but they don't realise that the reason Islam has survived for so many years is because of its flexibility and ability to adapt, at least on a supeficial level, and so they come out with strict ideas because they think otherwise it would be under attack from so called western ideals.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 05:18 AM
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Alot of the things in Islam that restrict women is not a common practise mentioned in the Qur'an, most of it is simply tradition.

Visit this site to learn more about misconceptions about women in Islam.

Misconceptions(Submission)



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 05:35 AM
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There are no verses in Qur'an (koran) that justify killing innocent people weven if they are non-Muslims!

There are verses that allow Muslims to defend themselves and kill those who attack them whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims! These verses are oftenly misinterpreted by non-Muslims as well as Muslims, unfortunately!



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:17 AM
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Here, Here, where does it say bomb, kill, capture and cut the heads of your fellow man.

All I see is groups using a so called religion to vent their anger at the rest of the world.

I remember what its like to be young and how easy it is to lead to violence, the time has come to weed out the trouble makers and bring them to justices.

Pointing the finger at an anger mob of young Muslims is throwing a blanket over a bigger problem, the real issue relates to our governments foreign policies and how the main players feel its their right to manipulate and control world affairs.

This is how Muslims start hating westerners which then allows extremist room to promote revenge and violence.

Look at the people running the show, drinking the champagne and making the money and that's where you will find the real problem.

This is where public opinion is swayed and the real trouble starts.

The worst thing is most of you probably voted for them!



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by Patience
There are no verses in Qur'an (koran) that justify killing innocent people weven if they are non-Muslims!

There are verses that allow Muslims to defend themselves and kill those who attack them whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims! These verses are oftenly misinterpreted by non-Muslims as well as Muslims, unfortunately!



I think alot of the problem lays with Islamofascists Labeling of who is or isn't innocent.

I beleive there is thousands upon thousands, possibly millions of Muslim extremists out there who label all westerners guilty and the enemy, for three reasons, (1) Living in a western country (2) paying taxes to Western governments (3) being non beleivers.


You say that these Muslims misinterpret the Quran, how can so damn many get it wrong ? It Has to go further than misinterpretation.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:46 AM
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How is it the germans follwed a man like Hitler.

Because they needed something to believe in and someone to blame.

It's easy, link it to something they can hold, touch and live with everyday and there you have it, brainwashed doers.

Tell them they are poor or dying because of the west ( which is mostly true) and you get young boys and girls strapping bombs to their bodies in the name of their god, which, if you must know is the same as my god and most likely your god too.

Thank you Bush, Howard, Blair and the rest, we could have done without the dead soldiers the crashed planes the missle deals and the back door oil trading, but hey that's the west for you - a rain forrest one day, a barren refugee camp the next.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by talon565
How is it the germans follwed a man like Hitler.

Because they needed something to believe in and someone to blame.

It's easy, link it to something they can hold, touch and live with everyday and there you have it, brainwashed doers.

Tell them they are poor or dying because of the west ( which is mostly true) and you get young boys and girls strapping bombs to their bodies in the name of their god, which, if you must know is the same as my god and most likely your god too.

Thank you Bush, Howard, Blair and the rest, we could have done without the dead soldiers the crashed planes the missle deals and the back door oil trading, but hey that's the west for you - a rain forrest one day, a barren refugee camp the next.



Ahh your agenda is now clear, spoken like a true apologist.


So you beleive they are poor and dying because of the West, just imagine when Oil becomes Obsolete, i guess theyll be poorer and starving but it will still be the fault of the west's ?
Do you ever ask yourself if Muslim's cared about there own as one entity, what happens to the Trillion's they get in Oil sales ?



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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yes mostly thats true, greed from one allows greed from another, and as I said you can thank global foreign policy.

Hey its OK, It's best that you heard it here!



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by talon565
How is it the germans follwed a man like Hitler.

Because they needed something to believe in and someone to blame.


Partly, but he also revived the German economy and made Germnay prosperous, then he went to war - oops.



Tell them they are poor or dying because of the west ( which is mostly true)

g
It is, please explain yourself. You don';t think it's mainly because of their corrupt and inept leaders



Thank you Bush, Howard, Blair and the rest, we could have done without the dead soldiers the crashed planes the missle deals and the back door oil trading, but hey that's the west for you - a rain forrest one day, a barren refugee camp the next.


Hmmm, you're suggesting that 911 was the fault of these men ? I don;t think so



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:33 AM
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If the west was serious about distributing export / import profits and making sure the currupt were not left in power they could change it in a heart beat.

A country can falsely claim one thing, invade occupy and control another country all with lies.

Yes the west is to blame, think back it was not so long ago these same people were allies.

I do not accept 911 as I do not accept any other terroist attack or attacks by any country on another.

I can relate to muslims, if I was told by my father that what was mine was taken away by the west, then I would be angry too.

History teaches lessons, not this bs about the end of the world or lizard people, but when you give with one hand and take back with the other, someone will soon cut them both off.

I hope Im not around when it happens.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:48 AM
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Where all entitled to our own opinions i guess and it is my opinion that your mind has been poisoned by the west haters and Islamofascists.

And since when did the West have a responsibility or obligation to share the Wealth ? especially to the people who want to chop "both our hands off " ? There's another saying to "never bite the hand that feeds you".



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by talon565
If the west was serious about distributing export / import profits and making sure the currupt were not left in power they could change it in a heart beat.


So your saying that the West should decide how a country should spend its money. How would you propose they do this ?
I'm sure that would go down well with all sovereign countries, lol.



I can relate to muslims, if I was told by my father that what was mine was taken away by the west, then I would be angry too.


What has the West taken away from the Arab countries ? Almost all the wealth Arab countries have is from the West, we gave them their wealth. It isn't our fault if they misspent it.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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I agree with the comment regarding how money is spent, you cant tell another country how to spend its money, we can leave that to the world bank to do that when they fail to make good on their debts.

Im not a west hater as you put it Im actually a very proud Australian.

What I do find interesting is how the west can remove a leader for fake weapons of mass distruction, and shrug your sholders and grin but cant do the same for a government starving an entire population.

I base my opinoins on what I read and what we see reported in the media, the west has a bad name because of the west.

If I had a choice I would invite a muslim to dinner, at least if he was going to kill you he would do it to your face and not wait for the cigars and brandy before slipping a blade in your back.



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