Muslim's Urged to kill Westerners.

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Thanks for your answers! I think Islam need's a rank system though, like people higer than Imam's checking on them, all Christian religions seem to .... Like Juniors all way through to world leaders like popes and arch bishops etc.

Cheers.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
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Thanks for your answers! I think Islam need's a rank system though, like people higer than Imam's checking on them, all Christian religions seem to .... Like Juniors all way through to world leaders like popes and arch bishops etc.

Cheers.

That idea has some merit, at least then the moderates could crack down on the hardliners with some force.

BTW thanks for the WATS

Right off to do my Christmas shopping!

Originally posted by geek101
either back up your comments or stop spouting such ignorant rubbish.
I am so fed up with reading these type of comments.

Thats the problem geek the Quran backs up my comments as do the elders who live in Muslim nations, not western nations. Where do you live? I would like anyone one of you to take a trip to Lebannon just once a year during certain celebrations of certain historical figures and tell me what you see and hear. I am fed up with those who will pretend that children will not be cut with knives just to show the hatred Islam has for America. I am tired of those who pretend to be the Islam "voice" when you never grew up in an Islamic nation. I spent 7 years amongst the elders of many Muslim nations and I have no false notion of reality as many of you enjoy. When I said the Quran teaches Muslims to smile and speak softly while killing the unbeliever I did not say anything other that what is believed and accepted. If you do not accept such then you deny Islam, or Islam that has been accepted since it's inception. What we do find today is many say, "I am a peaceful Muslim," who willingly agree with helping those who are committed to Jihad for Allah.

*SNIP*

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[edit on 24/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]

I would like anyone one of you to take a trip to Lebannon just once a year during certain celebrations of certain historical figures and tell me what you see and hear. I am fed up with those who will pretend that children will not be cut with knives just to show the hatred Islam has for America. I am tired of those who pretend to be the Islam "voice" when you never grew up in an Islamic nation. I spent 7 years amongst the elders of many Muslim nations and I have no false notion of reality as many of you enjoy.

Just out of interest...whichpart of the Lebanon did you go to and why? Was it the Shia Dominated part? The part with Hizbullah, a group funded by the haters of the Great Satan: Iran? Can you honestly get an unbiased opinion of Jihad and Islam there when some of the Muslims you met probably fought/know prople who fought against what they see as a US proxy state i.e. Israel?

The lebanon is also made up of a large proportion of Christians as well as Druze. What is you reaction to this? How can the country in anyway function if there is such hatred of "non believers". BTW I recognsie the fact that there was a civil war.

www.cia.gov...

I would just be interested in your opinion. I am in no way discounting it. You are obveosly in a position where you have spent some time in an "Islamic" country and have first hand experience which I don't. I can only go on the Muslims I have met. Im just wondering if you have considered all the factors? Look forward to your response!


[edit on 24-12-2005 by enslaved83]

Originally posted by Qoelet


I think you would find that those supporting the BNP would be concerned about jobs/benefits/housing if there was no immigration...

Let's talk about job & housing then. And let's stay simple.

There is 1000 jobs for 1000 peoples. 1000 immigrants are coming in the country but there is STILL 1000 jobs.

Congratulations, you've created 1000 jobless people who are now living one the wellfare system and will finally sink your wellfare system. And if these immigrants take some of the available jobs, the peoples who were already there BEFORE will have the rigth to say " look at these guys, they're taking our job and sinking our wellfare system ".

It's like when a corporation close a 2000 jobs plant in California and 2 days later open a new 2000 jobs plant in India or in China.

Immigration is only possible when there are too much jobs and housing and not enough workers. Why don't you understand this ?

Originally posted by enslaved83

I agree with you, absolutely and to the letter. I think the problem lies with the fact that these immigrants are in poor areas and yes it is a reaction, people want somone to blame for their misery.

Look at the riots in France. The French treat their immigrants so badly it is beyond a joke. They live in poor deprived areas with little government assistance and extreme environments breed extremists. Just so happens they are muslims.

Ok, first, one thing must be clear. I don't like France and how french peoples are seeing the rest of the world, BUT, it's obvious you never went in France and don't know how the thing are going in France. You just know France via your anti-France biased media.

I've lived and worked there so I know them and I can explain you some thing about France and their immigrations problems :

" I think the problem lies with the fact that these immigrants are in poor areas "

France is spending and has always spent tons of money to these so-called " poor areas ".

" Look at the riots in France. The French treat their immigrants so badly it is beyond a joke. "

It's you who are joking, not the Frenchies. In France, immigrants have almost all the rights. If a police officer just ask to an immigrant for his ID card the immigrant will complain automatically the P.O is racist.

Also, it's the immigrants who are treating badly the frenchs, not the opposite. French peoples are so under attack of these immigrant that French government has strictly forbidden all ethnics and racial statistic because when they did it for the first time, all the stat were showing how much the immigrants hate France and frenchies ( rape, attack, arson, theft, robbery and so on...).

" They live in poor deprived areas with little government assistance ".

I would lough if it wasn't so pathetic.

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France seriously needs to crush this Raicial/Nationalistic/Religous violence, they are seriously on crash coarse with civil war.

It is actually going to be a good lesson to the rest of the world of what to expect when Islam becomes a majority or atleast in Large numbers.

I agree with the above poster, these rioters in France arnt treated nearly as bad as the left wing civil libitarian apologists try to have us beleive.

They need to get HARD like real hard ..... weve had some of the same problems here in Australia, but on a smaller scale ... but the difference is the government is taking no crap what so ever now, many law changes.

Here is a good example, 2 people Refused bail for Burning the Australian flag www.news.com.au...

This is exactly what the French government need to do before the RIP France headstone gos up.

Ok, first, one thing must be clear. I don't like France and how french peoples are seeing the rest of the world, BUT, it's obvious you never went in France and don't know how the thing are going in France. You just know France via your anti-France biased media.

Actually Ive been to France loads. I very much like the country. Every holiday I have had for the past 4-5 years has been in France. Ive been to Paris numerous times, the Dordogne Region once and have spent many happy weeks in the alps snowboarding. I also speak French (a bit) and I don't tend to form my opinions based on ignorance so you are in fact very wrong.

If you take some time to read other posts I have made in this forum you will also find I am somewhat against the British media and contray to what you think, I don't believe everything I hear on Television.

It's you who are joking, not the Frenchies. In France, immigrants have almost all the rights. If a police officer just ask to an immigrant for his ID card the immigrant will complain automatically the P.O is racist.

Please refer to things I have read regarding the behaviour of the French towards its Algerian population during the Algerian War of Independance.

en.wikipedia.org...

Its not all as one sided as you think.

Also, it's the immigrants who are treating badly the frenchs, not the opposite. French peoples are so under attack of these immigrant that French government has strictly forbidden all ethnics and racial statistic because when they did it for the first time, all the stat were showing how much the immigrants hate France and frenchies ( rape, attack, arson, theft, robbery and so on...).

" They live in poor deprived areas with little government assistance ".

I would lough if it wasn't so pathetic.

I am not going to deny that there are problems which need to be addressed. Yes there is a crime problem in these communities. However a solution lies on both sides. Its not all down to the fact that they are Muslims. As a final point, I would also like to point out that I have driven throught the poorer parts of Paris and it is deprived with grotty horrible housing

Originally posted by enslaved83
Just out of interest...whichpart of the Lebanon did you go to and why? Was it the Shia Dominated part? The part with Hizbullah, a group funded by the haters of the Great Satan: Iran? Can you honestly get an unbiased opinion of Jihad and Islam there when some of the Muslims you met probably fought/know prople who fought against what they see as a US proxy state i.e. Israel?

Well the Shia was started by Yemeni and passed over to the bedouin. So there is a difference between cultural, traditional, and cleric interpretaion of the Quran. What will be agreed upon universally is that America is the great Satan, deceived, and ultimately the citizens are guilty for the leaders choices. The question of unbelievers does apply to Christians of a Muslim nation but not in the context you are questioning. There are different levels of an unbeliever. You can have many Muslim firends as I have this does not change what is called for and required as a Muslim. In war my friendship will grant me safe passage or a meals whereas a regular troop would be instantly killed. There is mututal respect. However, just like America has a pop culture so does Islam. That pop culture has to do with Jihad and all the various theories and traditionally accepted acts are studied and taught to children from their earliest youth through song and by those practicing such. It is ingrained as Elvis is ingrained in our own culture. That's what many fail to understand. It's not just an ideal but a way of life that is looked upon as courageous, worthy, fun, and respectful. Those who engage in jihad will get respect from elders form women from authority. In many cases of martyrdom they will be praised and songs will be written about them and taught to the children so they are remembered.

Whether Saudi Arabia, Lebannon, or Yemen what remains to be true, regardless of what peace loving Muslims exclaim, is that the US, UK and any of her allies and friends of Israel are the enemy of Islam and this will never change unless Mecca and the clerics teach otherwise. Anyway it will be generations and our government is fully aware of this,

However, just like America has a pop culture so does Islam. That pop culture has to do with Jihad and all the various theories and traditionally accepted acts are studied and taught to children from their earliest youth through song and by those practicing such. It is ingrained as Elvis is ingrained in our own culture. That's what many fail to understand. It's not just an ideal but a way of life that is looked upon as courageous, worthy, fun, and respectful. Those who engage in jihad will get respect from elders form women from authority. In many cases of martyrdom they will be praised and songs will be written about them and taught to the children so they are remembered.

Very interesting, thank you for your answer. You know having said all that I still don't fear the Arab world and I feel a lot of things that are said are just bravardo. It will be a long long time before an Arab country can stand up to any Western Nation and until that happens I won't be loosing sleep. Nevertheless an interesting account of the Arab/Islamic mindsetl.

Most of my experience of the Arab world comes from what I have read coupled with the excellent Leon Uris book "The Haj" about Palestinians. A very interesting read by all accounts.

The mutual respoect thing you talk about is also very interesting. By the same account could it apply to countires and foreign relations?

Originally posted by enslaved83

The mutual respoect thing you talk about is also very interesting. By the same account could it apply to countires and foreign relations?

This has to do more with individual expression and personal pride. There is no reason to fear Arabs or Muslims they are people who wish also to live in peace. Out of the Islamic culture unfortunately there will be individuals and organized groups, who will explore the traits of Jihad, or the cast of James Dean, Clint Eastwood, or Rambo if you will compare, and this will take generations to change. They have wanted an atmosphere to engage us, that atmosphere has been provided. There are two - Iraq and Afghanistan. It's quite evident that even though these places of engagement exist the delinquents of Islam still choose to target civilians directly for political and ideolgical theory and revenge, which throws out the window the Palestinian concept of "this is the way we can fight back,"





[edit on 24-12-2005 by vincere7]

vincere7 wrote: Thats the problem geek the Quran backs up my comments

First thing, i'm a woman, not a "boy"

secondly, really?.....i asked you to back up your comments with a verse from the Quran. You didnt (or couldnt) do that.
If you cant, *SNIP*. You are one more person who is spouting things about islam, which a) you have no knowledge of, or b) you get from the hadiths

I await with eager anticipation, therefore, for a verse from the Quran, which says (as you claim) that muslims are urged to kill disbeleivers whilst speaking softly (or whatever rubbish you said). I'll even be satisfied with a verse that tells us to kill disbelievers (apart from the verses where the context is war).

*SNIP*

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[edit on 24/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]

Another urging muslims to kill westerners? Honestly, tell me why I'm not even remotely surprised.

Originally posted by geek101

vincere7 wrote: Thats the problem geek the Quran backs up my comments

First thing, i'm a woman, not a "boy"

secondly, really?.....i asked you to back up your comments with a verse from the Quran. You didnt (or couldnt) do that.
If you cant, *SNIP*. You are one more person who is spouting things about islam, which a) you have no knowledge of, or b) you get from the hadiths

I await with eager anticipation, therefore, for a verse from the Quran, which says (as you claim) that muslims are urged to kill disbeleivers whilst speaking softly (or whatever rubbish you said). I'll even be satisfied with a verse that tells us to kill disbelievers (apart from the verses where the context is war).

*SNIP*



Hello,

Could you / or someone link us an online version in English of the Quran that the majority of Muslims read/follow ?
I for one have seen some shocking quotes from the Quran id just like to see for myself.

Thanks.

numbercruncher wrote: Could you / or someone link us an online version in English of the Quran that the majority of Muslims read/follow ?

Hi
there is a couple that i can think of, the first is a Quran browser, it offers 5 translations (you can look at upto 4 at the same time, same page), that one is:

Quran Browser

The second one is a search quran fucntion, where you enter (top left hand side) an english word. THe translation it automatically gives is Yusuf Ali, but you can change it to Pickthall or Asad, by using the function on the right hand side. That one is:

Quran Search

Hope this helps.
And merry christmas to you and to everyone here!

This has to do more with individual expression and personal pride. There is no reason to fear Arabs or Muslims they are people who wish also to live in peace. Out of the Islamic culture unfortunately there will be individuals and organized groups, who will explore the traits of Jihad, or the cast of James Dean, Clint Eastwood, or Rambo if you will compare, and this will take generations to change. They have wanted an atmosphere to engage us, that atmosphere has been provided. There are two - Iraq and Afghanistan. It's quite evident that even though these places of engagement exist the delinquents of Islam still choose to target civilians directly for political and ideolgical theory and revenge, which throws out the window the Palestinian concept of "this is the way we can fight back,"

I agree with you on that point. I do not fear Islam in the slightest. Sure there may be less favourable aspects to it but as I think this is down to regional interpretation rather than a deep seated problem within the religion itself. Your point about Islamic delinquents is also very valid. Indeed it is so often the case that it only takes the action of a few to ruin it for everyone else.

Example: 10-20 involved in the London bomb attacks out of a population of 1.3 million.

I guess in a way these groups are equivelant to the BNP, right wing and other extremist groups that occur in Europe.

I have as a result of your comments given you one of my ATS votes. I very much appreciate someone who can back up their comments with facts. To often when discussing Islam people bash/flame Muslims without:

A) Understanding a thing about the culture/religion/region (i.e. middle east)
B) Backing themsleves up with experience/evidence
C) Forming their own opinions that are different to that they hear in the popular and unfortunately sensationalist western media

Tell me, I have one or two other questions. What were you doing in the Lebanon and would you ever go back? have you visited any other countries in the middle east?






[edit on 24-12-2005 by vincere7]

[edit on 25-12-2005 by enslaved83]

Originally posted by geek101
First thing, i'm a woman, not a "boy"

I await with eager anticipation, therefore, for a verse from the Quran, which says (as you claim) that muslims are urged to kill disbeleivers whilst speaking softly (or whatever rubbish you said).

Interesting, average women are not allowed to study the Quran in depth nor allowed to discuss such. You are however, allowed to be taught by your husband, or in daily prayer. I could provide many verses, which to post for you to dispute would not only be insulting, but disrespectful in general. The listing of verses has been done many times on this forum by myself personally and will only lead to arguments. Besides you are a woman and not eligible to dispute such. If this answer is prejudice then you find Islam prejudice as any main cleric will agree that women are not allowed to discuss the Quran for theoretical purpose,

thanks for the vote enslaved,

Originally posted by vincere7
Interesting, average women are not allowed to study the Quran in depth nor allowed to discuss such. You are however, allowed to be taught by your husband, or in daily prayer. I could provide many verses, which to post for you to dispute would not only be insulting, but disrespectful in general. The listing of verses has been done many times on this forum by myself personally and will only lead to arguments. Besides you are a woman and not eligible to dispute such. If this answer is prejudice then you find Islam prejudice as any main cleric will agree that women are not allowed to discuss the Quran for theoretical purpose,

So you being a Muslim means you can't teach a woman about the Qur'an?