French government has listed its terms for surrender to Jihad

I agree wholeheartedly however Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world (even in the USA!) is it

Don't know about the US, but yeah it is in the world. Why can’t everyone be an Atheist? That would eliminate all this my belief is better than yours crap, if you don't believe in anything you have nothing to fight over.

Wow, what a thread.

To be a fly on the wall when average white Americans are rioting in the streets against government oppression in 10 years time would be an amazing thing. Will it be possible for people to be able to restrospectively feel compassion for people of today, regardless of race or colour?

The hypocracy and just plain ignorance of some people purely because of someone faith is just appauling.

Not to single you out about this topic, but in general, AceOfBase - what's happened man? You used to be the voice of reason and post some really interesting stuff that would shed light on a topic but recently there's been a big change in your tone and attitude? It's almost like someone else is using your account?

Something strange is going on in America in general. I'd check the water or air or something because there's been a noticable more aggressive change in a lot of people over the last few weeks that's esculating into signs of pure hatred and for what? Someone's religious beliefs?

Or, maybe those conspiracies about mass mind control are true after all.....?

Or, maybe those conspiracies about mass mind control are true after all.....?

Memphis, I usually don't agree with most of the things you say, but this is top out there even for you. Tell me you're not serous.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

I agree wholeheartedly however Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world (even in the USA!) is it

Don't know about the US, but yeah it is in the world. Why can’t everyone be an Atheist? That would eliminate all this my belief is better than yours crap, if you don't believe in anything you have nothing to fight over.

Or believe in God and not live their life dictated by a book ? It's the books that are always interpreted to suit the individual/group of people IMO

I'd say we are asking too much though



jokes aside,
I think ShroudOfMemphis is onto something (mass mind control) I see alot of hate aimed at nobody in particular, just an entire population of a religion ... it is getting out of hand and is so unecessary. It is called stereotyping and it is being done in the worst way.

I tell U what made my day today ? I saw a car load of your usual caucasian "thugs" as they call em (I know of them so I am allowed to say that lol) with a P Plate (Probabtionary, meaning he is between 18-21) driver, stop a line of traffic and let a Muslim lady cross the street. Sad to say, but that is not something U see every day. Most of these young Aussies flip the bird and yell obscenities at them, seen with my own eyes and it breaks my heart, it really does.






[edit on 9-11-2005 by ImJaded]

From today's London Guardian

They are gathered, as every night, on the edge of the car park at the foot of the block. Far enough into the shadows not to be easily seen; close enough to the stairwell to leg it inside if the police come near.

Sylla, Sossa, Karim, Rachid, Mounir and Samir are the names they give. The oldest is 21, the youngest 15. One is an apprentice plumber; another is on work experience as a cook at a cafe in nearby Aulnay-sous-Bois; one is claiming benefit; two are (sort of) at school. Three are "known to the police".

Article continues
This estate, the Rougemont in Sevran, about 15 miles north of Paris, was one of the first to flare in France's outbreak of rolling urban violence, which has lasted 12 nights and in which nearly 6,000 cars have gone up in flames, dozens of schools, community centres and shops have been wrecked, and 1,500 people arrested.

There are many reasons for the violence. "Because we hate, because we're mad, because we've had it up to here," said Rachid, parka hood up against the cold. "Look around you. This place is #, it's a dump. We have nothing here. There's nothing for us."

Sylla, 18, has a more specific target for his rage. "Les keufs, man, the cops. They're Sarkozy's and Sarkozy must go, he has to shut his mouth, say sorry or just # off. He shows no respect. He calls us animals, he says he'll clean the cités with a power hose. He's made it worse, man. Every car that goes up, that's one more message for him."

The interior minister's forces, of which there are some 9,500 on duty around the country, are loathed. "They harass you, they hassle you, they insult you the whole time, ID checks now, scooter checks next. They call you 'n-word' names," said Karim, 17. "I got caught the other week smoking on the train. OK, you shouldn't smoke on the train. But we get to Aulnay station, there are six cops waiting for us, three cars. They did the whole body search, they had me with my hands on the roof of the car. One said: 'Go back home, Arab. Screw your race'."

The prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, said yesterday that France would "guarantee public order to all its citizens", although the violence might take "some time" to quell. The government approved emergency measures announced on Monday, imposing curfews at local authorities' discretion. The penalty for those who violate them could be two months in jail.

On the streets after midnight on Monday, the measure provoked disbelief. "It's bad, it's really serious," said Djaoued, 21, a couple of miles down the road near the Chêne-Pointu estate in Clichy-sous-Bois, where the riots began on October 27.

"On the radio they said the last time they used that law was in the Algerian war. Is that stupid or what? Ninety percent of the people who live here are Arabs. What does that tell them? Fifty years later, you're still different? We're not allowed outside, and everyone else is?"

Back in Sevran, someone was attempting to set fire to George-Brassens college. Sirens wailed as half a dozen police cars and fire engines screamed along the Avenue André Rousseau.

"It's so easy," said Ali, 16. "You need a beer bottle, a bit of petrol or white spirit, a strip of rag and a lighter. Cars are better, though, when the tank goes. One of you smashes a window, the other lobs the bottle."

Ali's friend was an Arsenal fan: "Thierry Henry, man! But he never scores for France." Does he feel French? "We hate France and France hates us," he spat, refusing to give even his first name. "I don't know what I am. Here's not home; my gran's in Algeria. But in any case France is just #ing with us. We're like mad dogs, you know? We bite everything we see. Go back to Paris, man."

Sylla summed it up. "We burn because it's the only way to make ourselves heard, because it's solidarity with the rest of the non-citizens in this country, with this whole underclass. Because it feels good to do something with your rage," he said.

"The guys whose cars get torched, they understand. OK, sometimes they do. We have to do this. Our parents, they should understand. They did nothing, they suffered in silence. We don't have a choice. We're sinking in #, and France is standing on our heads. One way or another we're heading for prison. It might as well be for actually doing something."

"We hate France and France hates us," he spat, refusing to give even his first name. "I don't know what I am. Here's not home; my gran's in Algeria. But in any case France is just #ing with us. We're like mad dogs, you know? We bite everything we see. Go back to Paris, man."

They should take the message and get the # out of France.
I have no pity at all for them.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
They should take the message and get the # out of France.
I have no pity at all for them.

Oh sure, great solution very constructive !
Get out of France ....And do what ?..... become immigrants in another country ? they are French ! You just don't get it do you ?

They can't "deport" them like you suggested, because they all have the French nationality...

I can understand you don't have pity for them at all, how can you have pity for peolpe you HATE by default cause they are different then you.... It's clear many hear suffer from severe cases of Islamofobia... i suggest you seek proffesional help.

A wise American chap once said "the government that governs least governs best." France should heed those words, it's clear now that their socialist policies have cause high unemployment because of the lack of business growth. However their proposed solution is to spend 30 billion in the riot effected areas, I assume they will have to raise tax even higher to do this and they are already at levels that are too high right now. How exaclty is raising taxes (assuming they don't cut back on military or something else to get the funds) going to encourage much needed business growth in France?

In order for French society to provide the same changes and opportunities to all its citizens, said de Villepin, 30 billion euros ($35.28 billion) will be spent in France's riot zones, with the focus primarily on helping young people.

edition.cnn.com...

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by XyZeR
Get out of France ....And do what ?..... become immigrants in another country ? they are French ! You just don't get it do you ?

If France is so damn bad that they want to destroy it then they should move.
Maybe they'll be happier over in Algeria or Morocco. They won't have to face racism and discrimination there.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Not to single you out about this topic, but in general, AceOfBase - what's happened man? You used to be the voice of reason and post some really interesting stuff that would shed light on a topic but recently there's been a big change in your tone and attitude? It's almost like someone else is using your account?

I think Somebody "Hijacked" Ace too.

I can not belive, that he would change so much over such a topic.

Could it be, that somebody else is using his account?

Maybe he was Kidnapped?

Here is some more opinion on this:

"Wake up, Europe, you've a war on your hands "

''French youths,'' huh? You mean Pierre and Jacques and Marcel and Alphonse? Granted that most of the "youths" are technically citizens of the French Republic, it doesn't take much time in les banlieus of Paris to discover that the rioters do not think of their primary identity as ''French'': They're young men from North Africa growing ever more estranged from the broader community with each passing year and wedded ever more intensely to an assertive Muslim identity more implacable than anything you're likely to find in the Middle East. After four somnolent years, it turns out finally that there really is an explosive ''Arab street,'' but it's in Clichy-sous-Bois.

Originally posted by uknumpty "I got caught the other week smoking on the train. OK, you shouldn't smoke on the train. But we get to Aulnay station, there are six cops waiting for us, three cars.

I've said I before, I'll say it again. Law abiding citizens rarely have run-ins with police. You hate the cops for doing their jobs?

did the cop make the comment about being a dirty arab or whatever else he claims? dunno. maybe. maybe not . the kid is a law breaker. he's a rioter. his word is suspect. If the cops said it, it was wrong. however, had the kid not broken the law, the cops wouldn't have been waiting for him.

Originally posted by Souljah
I think Somebody "Hijacked" Ace too.

I can not belive, that he would change so much over such a topic.

Could it be, that somebody else is using his account?

Maybe he was Kidnapped?

Hey Souljah, stick to the regularily scheduled program, m'kay?
This topic is not about AceOfBase or any other member of ATS.
We are all a/effected by various things in varying ways, and as such, it remains something personal and regulated to an individual. IMHO, between you and TheShroudOfMemphis questioning AceOfBase over his past commentaries or commentaries related to this topic or like topics, here is a word of advice: spare us all your morbid shock, and other than personal observations [which quite frankly should be kept to your ownselves concerning another member] and counter-opinions related to the topic, not the member(s), move along.

AceOfBase is who AceOfBase has always been.
To openly assume, for which you and TheShroudOfMemphis have done, that AceOfBase's account has been "hijacked" is ludicrous and unfounded. Personally, the both of you need to stick with minding your own business' and not the business of others.





seekerof

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by nathraq
No, he is probably just concerned, like the rest of us, about the impending decline and fall of our Western societies by people who we have extended a generous hand to, only to have them take advantage of the same generousity, and use any type of so-called 'social-injustices' as a reason to act like animals in their adopted homelands.

We are only 2 steps behind them.

Right on Nathraq!!!!

These people were givin a golden opportunity to make something out of their lives and they turned their neighborhoods into the HELLHOLES their parents ran away from!

The French government acted like we all knew it would......they waved the white-flag, not realizing that if you give these SCUM a free 2-bedroom apartment....they will DEMAND a 3-bedroom apartment with a new car to match.

These Muslim rioters see the Urine-stain in the pants of the French and that will drive them on and on until France is under Islamic law.

I think we are really are 2-steps behind them....the only difference here is Americans are armed with guns.

Skippy is right, this is a surrender....call it what you will, but this is a WAR and France just lost the 1st battle.

Maximu§

More in the Jihad against France:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

"..."It's Baghdad here," the rioters shouted. Night after night last week, rage spread through the ghettos that ring Paris, then beyond to every corner of France. When a tear-gas canister exploded near a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois on the fourth violent evening, a new cry went up. "Now this is war," said one of the vandals. Others cried "jihad."..."

It seems some prefer to just ignore the truth that the areas immigrants almost always end up are slums and hell-holes.

They didn't 'make' them that way they already were that way.

Immigrants always end up in the poorest areas of town, always have always probably will.

When the last great Jewish flight from Europe happened at the trun of the 19-20th century they ended up stuck in the worst areas of London (and yes there were riots, murders and decades of trouble between the fascists and the Immigrant Jews.
Think Jack the Ripper in 1888 and why the British ruling class were so terrified of the east end exploding or the later battle of Cable st. in 1936 with Mosleys fascists. 50yrs of immigrants in the 'hell hole' that was the old east end.
Now thankfully much redeveloped but still with it's high rise slum towers and relative poverty.)

This is all nothing new, just the same old dreary agenda that effectively boils down to blaming the poor when they get 'uppity' and complain about being poor and a desire to ignore the issues a sense of shared social responsibility presents.

I don't condone the riots but I do think that we are seeing some of the problem in it's own little way here.
More than a few people prefer to start squalking about 'socialism' or 'communism' or 'take over' or 'surrenders' and ignore the horrible living conditions and what 40% unemployment and zero prospect of any change can do to areas.
Some obviously just can't wait to focus in soley on the religion (ie today's code for race) of what they think is the 'faith' of all those brown people they have seen and heard about rioting on TV.


[edit on 9-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

This is not a riot inspired by religious fervour.

This is a riot inspired by poverty and deprivation, which is the cause of most riots around the world.

How many more examples do people need?

Why do some members continually want to see this as confrontation between Islam and Christianity?

I wouldn't say that members are seeing this as a conflict between Christianity and Islam. France is definitely not what you would call a Christian state. I think the inclination is to see this as another stunt by Islamic groups that want things their way or else. There have been some comparisons alluding to the French Muslims wanting an Islamic controlled zone much like the Gaza strip. Speaking of Gaza strip, the nation of Israel is definitely not Christian, so the conflict no matter where it is located appears to be Islam vs. any resistance of Islamic control.

I wouldn't call this Jihad just yet, but the evidence appears to make people believe that this is unofficially an uprising by the Muslim immigrants of France. Both criteria seem to be the determining factor. Muslim and immigrant, so no one is stereotyping Muslims here.

Originally posted by uknumpty
This is not a riot inspired by religious fervour.

This is a riot inspired by poverty and deprivation, which is the cause of most riots around the world.

How many more examples do people need?

1.

I need exactly ONE example of a non-muslim involved in these riots.

Just one single person. (Actually, it will take more then one, but I bet you can't even find a SINGLE example).

I seem to recall talk of a "new crusade" being bounded about by a certain member. This can only refer to an Islamic-Christian conflict.

I am trying to say that any reference to religious status as being a motive is fmisguided and dangerous as it plays into the hands of those outside membership of this website who wish to fan such devious flames of hate for their own twisted agenda.