This is exactly the kind of mentality that keeps allowing immigrants to move into European cities, and generally speaking, destroying the very foundations of civic law and prosperity that brought Europe and the West to the forefront in the first place.

And all the rubbish about the 'evil white man', and his past conduct at Empire building is really no differernt than any other Empire that has ever existed in the history of the planet Earth. Europe set out to conquer the world, which they pretty much accomplished. This being done by the world's minority.

What the people of the West want, I mean those with a bit of common sense, is to maintain our way of life. The foriegners, whom we have so generously accepted into our countries, are fleeing from their own homelands, which they have pretty much turned into rotting cesspools. We do not want that to happen in our societies; at least anyone who is not a communist or socialst (who always strive to defend the 'poor, downtrodden' immigrant; who in turn is laughing behind their benefactors backs).

Originally posted by nathraq
What the people of the West want, I mean those with a bit of common sense, is to maintain our way of life.

Very well stated sir

Originally posted by nathraq
The foriegners, whom we have so generously accepted into our countries, are fleeing from their own homelands, which they have pretty much turned into rotting cesspools. We do not want that to happen in our societies; at least anyone who is not a communist or socialst (who always strive to defend the 'poor, downtrodden' immigrant; who in turn is laughing behind their benefactors backs).

Maybe it would have been best to stay within your borders then for the past millenia's, instead of dividing and conquering the rest of the world and eventually having foreigners in the West through those actions, wheter it be for slaves or the West encouraging to go there.

Remember, without any foreigners, no country in the West would be as rich and wealthy as they currently are.. Who would do the dirty jobs no one else wants?

What jobs! The foreigners already have them all!.

Originally posted by nathraq
The foriegners, whom we have so generously accepted into our countries, are fleeing from their own homelands, which they have pretty much turned into rotting cesspools.

Maybe a historical perspective might help: So much of where they come from, if not all, is former colonial outposts where the indigenous peoples were relegated to slave labor - the time honored conquerer vs. conquered relationship.
Flash forward: the former colonial powers still have untouchable status, but now through their corporate proxies. The job pay rate, saftey requirements, emissions and pollution regulations are all mere fractions of what is legislated in the Western world.
THe upper officials in these countries live well. The corps make 10 times the profit that they would bringing the work to the West. Both the Western & 3rd World governemnts are selling out their people and focus the ire within the funnel of what you see on this thread....leaving them under the radar.

Keep chasing your tail, but the Western world you want to preserve is being killed by Western leaders, not immigrants.

as posted by shire19
Remember, without any foreigners, no country in the West would be as rich and wealthy as they currently are.. Who would do the dirty jobs no one else wants?

By referencing the "West," you must certainly be referring to the nations of Europe? I noticed that your from the UK? Is this how it is in the UK? What is happening in France can easily happen in the UK?

At any rate, your ultimate point is what exactly, shire19?
That past European colonialism is causing the rioting that is currently happening in France today?

Maybe it would have been best to stay within your borders then for the past millenia's, instead of dividing and conquering the rest of the world and eventually having foreigners in the West through those actions, wheter it be for slaves or the West encouraging to go there.

Hindsight is 20/20, huh?

The problems occurring in France, and in other European nations with this problem, is not one of past colonialism. France has a very progressive socialist social-welfare system, and quite frankly, I find it highly dubious, if not ironic, that those preferred socialistic styled programs are failing to the degree that they are, if they are. The problem, as I see it and interpret it, is one of age old European rooted racism, that despite the abundance of socialistic styled social-welfare systems, prevents France from not being able to entirely address the situation. I will concede that this is debatable, to some degree. Even so, the point being made here should not be entirely dismissed, as well.

Just my opinion, but till the real problem is addressed, and that being old European rooted rascism, and bear in mind that anti-semetism has been increasingly on the rise in Europe, social-welfare problems will never entirely address the situation. It will only act as a stop-gap candy-coated bandaid.





seekerof

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by shire19
Remember, without any foreigners, no country in the West would be as rich and wealthy as they currently are.. Who would do the dirty jobs no one else wants?

The poor and the desperate would do those jobs if it weren't for the immigrants, as long as they eliminate or severely reduce welfare.

That's the way it used to work.

Originally posted by AceOfBaseThe poor and the desperate would do those jobs if it weren't for the immigrants, as long as they eliminate or severely reduce welfare.

That's the way it used to work.

it doesn't work that way in the US. Part of the problem is that there are jobs that people think are beneath them. If you need money, you take a job. I think part of the reason the US gov't has been so lax with the influx of illegals (prior to 9/11 more so) is that many of the people coming here will take those jobs and they won't have any issues with earning money to send home or feed and clothe their kids.

what the US has done is breed a lazy society that expects things to be handed to them. gimme gimme gimme.

Bout Time said:

Keep chasing your tail, but the Western world you want to preserve is being killed by Western leaders, not immigrants

This is true, and I have said that. But that it only part of the problem.

It boils down to this: We let immigrants move into our cities to find work, and to better their fortunes in life. We give them residential visas, and eventually in some cases, citizenship. All this, with no strings attached, except a pledge of loyalty to the country in which they are now residing.

What does the host country get in return: havens of immigrant ghetto-type dwellings, riddled with crime and drugs. All the while, they are living off of a government check. The future may seem bleak, but it is a helluva lot better than where they came from.

Now, this type of scenario isn't really prevalent in American society, as we do not have the social security blanket that other Western Nations have. Immigrants can not come here, and expect a federal check every month, right off the bat. Most here have assimilated to the point, where 2nd and 3rd generation offsprings of immigrants can no longer speak the native tongue of the country from which their grandparents came. This is the American phenemonom.

Europe, on the other hand, has cultures just as old as the nations from which the immigrants are coming. They see this as an imposition on their cultures, beliefs, and way of life. And they have every right to feel that way. Germans are German; French are French; and British are British. But the fact that their cultures, though varying to a certain degree, are similar in more ways than not. They have a united belief system in law and order; in technical advancement, and of social harmony. These ideas date back to the united Roman Empire, and in the case of law and order, date back even further to some Germanic Tribal law and morals, which are still in use today.

Originally posted by Crakeur

what the US has done is breed a lazy society that expects things to be handed to them. gimme gimme gimme.

This is not true, due to the fact that in America, you sink or swim. A person can only recieve social aid for so long, before it is turned off. Same goes for unemployment benefits.

If you want to eat in America, you work. If you are too lazy too work, then you either live in your mommies basement till you're 40, or you end up living in your 1973 Ford Maverick.

Originally posted by nathraq

Originally posted by Crakeur

what the US has done is breed a lazy society that expects things to be handed to them. gimme gimme gimme.

This is not true, due to the fact that in America, you sink or swim. A person can only recieve social aid for so long, before it is turned off. Same goes for unemployment benefits.

If you want to eat in America, you work. If you are too lazy too work, then you either live in your mommies basement till you're 40, or you end up living in your 1973 Ford Maverick.

the system is slowly changing but it is still such that many of our unemployed simply don't want the jobs that are available to them.

Originally posted by Souljah
Well, for our Dearest Member skippytjc, everything Today is JIHAD.

I hope you known the Meaning of the word Jihad, my Dear Skippy, because it has a Whole Different Meaning then you and the rest of the Islamo-Haters are spreading today. Every Muslim does his own personal "Jihad" everyday. Jihad is a Struggle, mostly a struggle within yourself, a struggle to make yourself better everyday.

Well in some aspect, these Youths are doing a sort of Jihad - but not that cant that you are trying really hard to show to the members of this Board.

I wonder what would you do today, if you lived in France...

[edit on 8/11/05 by Souljah]

I think I love U souljah ... ok ok that was a lil dramatic lol but I have been trying to help people realize the difference between "jihad" and "holy war" to many on another thread.

I started to read this entire thread (and will continue later) but this was all I needed to see, thank you !
Let me go reiterate this on the other thread they are struggling to understand this on as I only explained it in basic terms as I understand it

Skippy, I am disappointed by what I have seen thus far my dear, but I understand your concerns.
I shall be back to read more after work though

50 million Muslims in a Europe of 500 millions?

So what?

Taken over by the most powerless in our midst?
You're kidding.

(like 'they' are all and always remain absolute fundamentalists just itching to take over anyway. wise up.)

.....and as for the idea that Europe stands as some absurd Hitlerian ethnically 'pure' society with, until now, little contact and interaction with Africans, people from the ME or (shock horror) Muslims, where have you been, who has been teaching you?

'They' have been with 'us' for well over 2 millenia already (1.5 for Muslims), our cultures have already met, mixed and evolved together to some extent long long ago.
'They' are not quite the absolute foreigners some here seen desperate to portray.

Reading this thread it seems that we Europeans should erect the Buchenwalds, Dachaus and Auschwitzs again; by cattle wagons they shall be transported and put in showers, only to be treated with Zyklon-B.

Yeah right; “Arbeit Mach Frei…”

For all you drama queens speaking about “crusades and killings”, social unrests as these have already taken place in Europe (e.g. Belgium) long before the French riots, and were quelled down without a genocide. Can you imagine that?

Promoting mass killings, or with “finer” words a “crusade”, because of a social unrest whereby one person has been killed –and that is sad, yet hardly a sign of civil war- is as ridiculous when some European propose mass killings (aka genocide) of Afro-Americans during the Rodney King or Watts Riots.

Arbeit Mach Frei… so does denying ignorance.

Blobber




[edit on 8-11-2005 by Blobber]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
It seems that so much is supposed to be ignored in order to make some happy. Political correctness really runs amuk. Although many around here will claim that it is "Christianity" that is causing so many woes in the world because of American interference (while, in other discussions, the same people will deny that the U.S. was supposed to be a Christian nation)

The United States is not a Christian nation, but that doesn't mean there isn't a significant number of people here that would like to change that. This last presidential election was determined more by the issue of gays getting married than the Iraq war which, I think is very sad.

The same people who are trying to get creationism into public school science classes and the constitution ammended to make the institution of marriage strictly between a man and a woman would jump at the opportunity to have Christianity be our state religion. After all, it's part of their "great commission" to convert as many to Christianity as possible because everybody knows that if you don't worship Jesus you're going straight to Hell.

I for one would gladly share Hell with Gandhi.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by ShakyaHeir]

Originally posted by ShakyaHeir

The United States is not a Christian nation, but that doesn't mean there isn't a significant number of people here that would like to change that.

I agree wholeheartedly however Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world (even in the USA!) is it not ? (please feel free to share with me if U disagree )

Originally posted by nathraq
It boils down to this: We let immigrants move into our cities to find work, and to better their fortunes in life. We give them residential visas, and eventually in some cases, citizenship. All this, with no strings attached, except a pledge of loyalty to the country in which they are now residing.

Err no, its more like "Hey Immigrants, please come to our country and do all the dirty, crappy, scummy 24/7 jobs so I can get Pizza at 3am, that our previous white working class now refuse to do because they've wised up."

I mean, the UK was all for expansion of the EU as it needed all the Polish migrants to do the crap jobs the original immigrants from India and the Carribean now refuse to do! The irony! The white man's taking all our jobs.

Business wants the immigrants, but it doesn't want to take the responsibility for any social problems that might arise.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by uknumpty]

Bottom line, there is just not enough enlightened muslims to head the hundred thousand mosques in the region. This leads to disruptive beliefs and twisted ideologies. This unfortunately is not knew. It has happened with every religion. Jesus had the deciples that he brought to their level. Unfortunately the next couple generations didn't understand EXACTLY and we are now experiencing the domino effect of that. This is how every great prophet ended. They were definitely deserving of resepct and faith, although down the line people have missed the point. The deception starts with a confused mind being given an inch of a mystic truth. When that dose opens their epiphanies, they are hooked. Although now they are guided to guard that "Inch" of the truth with their lives in the name of their faith. If we all just stopped and took a thought and let the rest of the truth in, we'd realize we were believing in the EXACT thing. Lord help the future. Peace,