The Halloween Controversy

I grew up in a very extremist way of holiday worshiping, we didn't celebrate Santa nor we celebrated Halloween and in Easter we didn't have eggs or bunnies is was only the passion of the Christ to be celebrated in church and with a religious procession and enactment of the Crucifixion.

It wasn't until I came to the US main land that I found out the joy of Christmas shopping and Halloween costumes celebration.

I truly enjoy holidays in the US is so colorful and pretty. Now my mother said that everything has change and that now even she has a Christmas tree and that Santa is now part of the Christmas celebration and so candy giving in Halloween.

I found this articles in the net.

Loving and caring church owner taking steps to keep littler children in costumes away from his church.

Local Church Installs Motion-Activated Sprinkler System to Deter Trick-or-Treaters

JACKSON, TN – Pine View Methodist Church in Pine View, TN is generally known for its love and compassion in the community, but a recent addition to its church grounds may impact public opinion for the worse. Earlier in October, pastor Felix Comrade II had a motion-activated sprinkler system installed along the walkway to his house, which is attached to the Church building.

Extremist against Halloween and their hoard of misinformation.

Most Satanists celebrate this as their high holy day and even offer human sacrifices to the devil. Until recently, most Christians have not questioned this traditional celebration, but rather have gone along with it by even bringing Halloween parties into the church. The earliest Halloween celebrations were not held by the early church, but the Druids in honor of Samhain, the "lord of the dead", and his demons, whose festival fell on November 1. Halloween actually means "holy or hallowed evening."

www.bible.com...

The Celtic year ended on 31 October, and it was Druidic practice at that time to celebrate a joint festival. On this day the Druids honoured the Sun god and the lord of the Dead. The Sun god was thanked for the harvest; the lord of the Dead was appeased with SACRIFICES of horses and HUMAN BEINGS. The sacrifices were also intended to frighten away evil spirits: the Druids believed that departed souls roamed abroad on the night of 31 October, often playing tricks and indulging in various supernatural antics in order to frighten the living.

www.nccg.org...

The Druids were a great, far-reaching priesthood who ruled over a people known as the Celts in ancient Ireland and Britain. The Druids ran everything, and one of them always accompanied the king and controlled him. Druids were the main teachers of their day, and also decided all arguments, public and private. They served as priests, prophets, magicians, doctors, lawyers and poets. They were cruel, bloodthirsty, superstitious, and practiced human sacrifice

209.239.56.130...

I can go for ever with the amount of trash about Halloween that is spread in the Internet by so call religious rights, the ignorance of it is just over whelming.

If you notice the use of the same stories over and over embellished to keep the readers eyes wanting more about the devil worshipers of Halloween of thousands of years ago.

Originally posted by Crakeur
if everyone would sit down and share a giant bowl of candy corn, there would be peace in this world. it's the ultimate equalizer. when judgement day comes, I'll have a small bag in my pocket. will you?

And that has been my point all along, Crakeur, is all about children, costumes and candy.

And yes I will have some candy in my purse I always do.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Crakeur



Val, madonna's an idiot. realy not much else to say about her. oh, her music stinks. always has.

and she had rather malformed breasts at one time, but it appears some type of nip and tuck took care of that.

carver victim?

Originally posted by Crakeur
if everyone would sit down and share a giant bowl of candy corn, there would be peace in this world. it's the ultimate equalizer. when judgement day comes, I'll have a small bag in my pocket. will you?

*takes some candy corn*. I like the ones with chocolate on the bottom. This doesn't mean I won't brush my teeth though

Saint, Marg, it's candy. quit the fighting and split that bag of candy corn. you can thank me later.

I don't have a problem with candy *munches* it's just the ritual I'd have to perform to get it that I don't agree with. That and gorging on ton and tons of candy. *munches* Speaking of conspiracy, maybe it's one invented by ancient dentists to drum up business? We have motive, now all we need are supporting details.

I'd still like to hear from a Christian regarding the questions I've posted if any are in attendance.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I'd still like to hear from a Christian regarding the questions I've posted if any are in attendance.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by saint4God]

the "true" christians are boycotting this barbaric pagan thread.

so, everyone get naked, dance around the fire and munch of the candy corn.

it's goooooooooooooooooood

Well, since you asked, my own experience in this:

19 years ago (my god, was it that far back?) I had just moved to town, was 11 years old, and wanted to trick my pumpkin-bucket out with all sorts of sugary treats. And it was a well-known yearly ritual at my previous schools to wear your costume on the 31st or the nearest schoolday beforehand.

I was the new kid, and wanted to make a great impression, so I took my meager savings, and set about to make the best costume ever. I bought some material, had mom sew me up a wizards costume complete with a starry hat (had I read the Discworld series at the time it would have said "Wizzard" on the top). I got a hiking stick I used in scouts, all carved up nice and cool looking already, found a place with a plastic skull. Found another place with some paste-gems, and fashioned them into the eye-sockets. Using my leftover science experiments, I hollowed out the plastic filling, rigged up a battery-operated light bulb so that it'd turn on and "flicker" whenever I pushed a switch, which I carved into the walking stick, set the skull up top, and bob's your uncle, it was one damned-fine wizard's staff. One flick of my finger, and the skull's eyes would flash with inner fire, and the faint glowing light could be seen through the walls of the plastic skull.

The entire costume together was probably the single most physical effort I put into anything, ever, in my life up until that point. I was so proud of it I wanted to take a photo of it and send it to the news, but mom said that probably wouldn't win many new friends even if it did get in the paper. I had no idea just how incredibly acute she was.

I showed up for school that day, and was feeling proud as punch as the students who didn't wear costumes stared at me aghast. Yeah, they were impressed all right. Just for show, I flourished my staff and made the skull's eyes flash for them. Some of them ran away, yelling. With little time left, I walked into my first class...

...to find that I was the only one in costume. In fact, come to think of it, I hadn't seen any costumes in school at all... In fact, I hadn't even seen so much as a pumpkin or an orange and black streamer.

Crap.

The teacher looked at me with a mixture of outrage and horror. I grinned sheepishly and--common sense be damned--flashed the light in the skull for the kids, who drew back like I'd fired a gun. We'd already been taught in school that nothing could move faster than light, but I swear that teacher went from a sitting position, behind her desk, to whipping that staff out of my hand and yanking off my wizard's hat faster than a photon with its tail on fire.

Another teacher who was able to see into our classroom through a crack in the sliding partitions poked her head in to see what the commotion was all about.

Then the bibles came out. One teacher ran for the principle, the other ordered Me out of my Costume and ordered Satan out of Me. I politely refused to get out of my costume and she got even more angry, telling the kids that Satan had consumed my mind on this, the most unholy of days. She then basically led the class in a group prayer to ward off "this satanist" and began yanking at my costume.

It was bad enough that they were calling me a satanist. You get raised in Texas, in the buckle of the Bible Belt, during the 70's and early 80's, the only thing worse to a boy in that circumstance was (at the time) being called "gay" (remember, these were less enlightened times and places). Anyway, I thought it was the worst possible thing that could happen within my meager but budding social life in this brand new community my parents had transplanted me to. After all, there was no way these Christian parents were going to let their kid be seen anywhere NEAR a satanist. Even this, though paled in comparison to the fact that my mom had sewn the costume in mine with hot Texas Octobers, and to basically be worn while standing or sitting. Wrestling hadn't figured into the stitching.

RRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrip!

My robe tore cleanly at the seams, and off, leaving me in nothing but a t-shirt and my underwear, in front of God, the Teacher, the class, and, only seconds later, the principal, the next teacher, and, of course, the neighboring classroom, who had by now opened the partition screen enough to peek in.

I wasn't even given the chance to speak. Kids my age in schools like that, in situations like that rarely were. The Principal, already assuming his students were in the clutches of demonic spells cast at them by a possessed satanist, had assumed the worst. He said something to the effect of "Oh, so now you want to walk around indecent? Fine. You'll walk all the way to the office like that."

So the rest of the school was treated to my spindly self being dragged by the ears. When we reached the office, they locked me in a room. The first person they called wasn't my parents, it was a minister. The hellfire and brimstone kind.

Lucky for me, someone called my mom. Lucky for me, my mom was a bit...nuts. If they thought they were in peril of the underworld coming to Earth before, they were completely unsurprised for the hell my mother raised. Both teachers and the principal lost their jobs once the whole thing went to trial, but the damage had pretty much been done at this point. I didn't even get the luxury of changing schools.

So, yeah, I have some experience at this whole "community outlawing of Halloween" thing, and the -true- damage that religious ignorance causes.

Originally posted by Crakeur
the "true" christians are boycotting this barbaric pagan thread.

You might be right. I've been criticized for "wasting my time" here from all kinds of different belief systems.

Originally posted by Crakeur
so, everyone get naked,

...with your spouse...

Originally posted by Crakeur
dance around the fire

...in the fireplace...

Originally posted by Crakeur
and munch of the candy corn.

it's goooooooooooooooooood

...but brush your teeth before going to bed

thelibra,

I think your story is so incredible that you should have it publish, I am not kidding, its very terrible, specially for pre teen.

Did the whole experience change your views about Halloween and religion?

I will like to know more about how this impacted you.

sorry to hear about that incident thelibra, I'm surprised that happened though I shouldn't be. Was that in response to my questions for Christians who celebrate Halloween?

I've suffered a fair amount of humiliation myself due to a teacher's ignorance. A bit of a cop-out for them to scapegoat Christianity for their fears. Nevertheless, I've been told that I couldn't bring a Bible to my school, to take off a t-shirt with a Christian message on it (I had no other tops under or over it), and my spouse was spanked bare-bottom infront of the class as a pre-teen, all in public school. That's not including the hazing by other students.

Good to hear from you again thelibra, it's been a while since we talked and learned a lot from our self-defence discussion.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Crakeur
so, everyone get naked,

...with your spouse...

are you coveting my wife?

Some people just can't stand to see other people have a good time.

Today's Halloween is all about costumes and candy and good-clean-fun, the one day of the year it's supposed to be OK to dress up like anything you want to and not be considered an idiot for doing it - to eat as much candy as you can and not be fussed at about cavities and sugar-rushes.

ONE DAY! is that so wrong? is it too much to ask for?

Yes, some people actually do 'bad' things on Halloween - These are the same people that probably do 'bad' stuff the other 364 days of the year. Are we gonna try to ban the whole calendar now just to try and stop them?

How about we just make every day Sunday - no more work, no more school - just Sunday School, Worship Service and Grandma's home cookin' (or Golden Corral's Buffet if Grandma don't feel like cooking) - Don't forget, '60 minutes' and 'Murder she wrote' will also come on EVERY night. (it still won't stop all the 'evil doers' from doing what they do- if anything, Boring TV like that will make them go out and do more)

If some people are actually afraid on Halloween night, and actually believe that the demons and goblins and "little mermaids" and "talking M&M's" are anything other than little kids in costumes - then by all means, lock your doors - turn out the lights - trap your own kids inside and make them read bible stories while all the other kids get to have FUN (yes, that's all it really is, just fun)

BUT DON'T RUIN IT FOR THE REST OF US!!!!!!

If you really do believe in "REAL" demons and goblins - then it's your civic duty to go out and do all that Halloween stuff anyway - all those costumes and candy and fun and noise and tricks and treats are what's supposed to scare them back to hell so they won't be around to cast votes on the first Tuesday in November.

Halloween traditions are not 'satan worshiping' - they are actually to scare him and the other demons back to their world.

So - in conclusion - being against Halloween is actually a call to let the demons come out and NOT scare them away.

Now wouldn't THAT make Baby Jesus cry?

(it's all just silly fun anyway - so don't get your panties all in a wad, mmmmkay?)

Originally posted by marg6043
I think your story is so incredible that you should have it publish,

I might one day. As usual, I'm writing several books at once, none of them finished, and one of them is a collection of all the crazy things that happened in my life. I didn't think to add this one, but in retrospect, it'd probably be fitting.

Originally posted by marg6043
Did the whole experience change your views about Halloween and religion?

I will like to know more about how this impacted you.

Well, truth be told, it didn't change much. By then I'd already begun to question my Christian upbringing because the church in our old city before the move was...very...hard core. Their faith was indeed like a rock, but unfortunately so was their foresight. The ultimate blow that caused me to stop calling myself a Christian was another incident altogether, involving nickles, a narthex, and a sweet old man who got buggered by some rich heathen...

As for how the incident itself impacted me? I was a social outcast from that point until high school. I had to fight almost every day school was in session, every teacher was convinced I was this horrible little trouble-maker before they ever met me. Getting a date was damned near impossible exceed with the freaky-wierd chicks that were into anything outside the norm, and all but my two closest friends pretty much avoided me. And don't even get me started on what Gym class was like.

Thank god for High School... it's like a clean fresh start.

Originally posted by saint4God
Was that in response to my questions for Christians who celebrate Halloween?

Actually, it was in response to this...

Originally posted by jupiter869
I’m wondering if this new anti-Halloween tradition is continuing this year. Anyone burning their costumes?

Originally posted by saint4God
I've been told that I couldn't bring a Bible to my school, to take off a t-shirt with a Christian message on it (I had no other tops under or over it)

See, that's just as ridiculous, only in the other direction. Why the hell can't people just be tolerant when someone else wants to express themselves in a way that isn't lewd or violent? I have no problem with people wearing Jesus paraphenalia. My beef isn't with him, it's with his followers (or many of them, at least).

Originally posted by saint4God
That's not including the hazing by other students.

Yeah... unfortunately, that's all part of growing up. I loathe the day I have to sit my kids down and explain that "Everyone's been through it. Either grin and bear it, or get really really buff, or become popular through whatever ethical means are possible."

Originally posted by saint4God
Good to hear from you again thelibra, it's been a while since we talked and learned a lot from our self-defence discussion.

Good to hear from you too! I missed our chats... although admittedly, I was living it up in Puerto Vallarta with my newlywed wife a bit too much to remember until recently. (grins)

Originally posted by Crakeur
are you coveting my wife?

Sharp eye, I didn't even read it that way when I wrote it. *clears throat* "...with you own spouse in private..." Thanks for having me clarify.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Crakeur
are you coveting my wife?

Sharp eye, I didn't even read it that way when I wrote it. *clears throat* "...with you own spouse in private..." Thanks for having me clarify.

wouldn't want you roasting on an eternal spit while the rest of us were having a grand old time.

although, one less guy means more women for the rest of us.

Originally posted by thelibra
Good to hear from you too! I missed our chats... although admittedly, I was living it up in Puerto Vallarta with my newlywed wife a bit too much to remember until recently. (grins)

Now THAT is reason to celebrate. Glad to hear things are going muy bien!

Vaya con Dios, mi amigo.



[edit on 18-10-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Now THAT is reason to celebrate. Glad to hear things are going muy bien!

Vaya con Dios. mi amigo.

Errr... "And a joyous cornlog to you too!"

Yep. Despite the insanty wreaked upon me by years of this kinda stuff happening, I found true love and she didn't try to kill me.

(sighs contentedly)

It was meant to be.



[edit on 10/18/2005 by thelibra]

Originally posted by thelibra
Errr... "And a joyous cornlog to you too!"

Originally posted by thelibra
Yep. Despite the insanty wreaked upon me by years of this kinda stuff happening, I found true love and she didn't try to kill me.

(sighs contentedly)

It was meant to be.

According to my "Modern English to Fairytale-speak" book, that translates to... "And they lived happily ever after".

Originally posted by saint4God
According to my "Modern English to Fairytale-speak" book, that translates to... "And they lived happily ever after".

...until she tries to kill me.

Originally posted by jupiter869
I know that Halloween doesn’t fall on a Sunday this year, but I’m wondering if this new anti-Halloween tradition is continuing this year. Anyone burning their costumes?

Well I've been lucky enough to never have had any "banning" of Halloween, but my church that I've attened since I was born in the past few years has started throwing parties on Halloween night! They just call it something else which escapes me at the moment. They also encourage kids to dress up as Bible characters and they have games and hand out candy. They also invite people off of the streets to come in and participate. *sigh* That is the kind of love and kindness I like to see even though its becomming rare it seems. Almost makes me want to consider myself Christian again.

Hatedcross, that is how a church should be, sadly most aren't. Today a church is a place where you spend a pay check to make sure you go to hell while you worry if the minister is molesting your kid. This is of course after the other churches in the area tell you that you are going to hell for not being a Catholic or Methodist or the "Right" Christian.

Anyways can't wait, going with a friend to a Halloween party, they dressing up as a guy and me as a girl, doing the whole opposites thing. Thankfully she went with me to buy the skirt and high heels and is teaching me how to walk in those things. How you women do it is beyond me, or why you do it, those things kill my ankles.