The Halloween Controversy

Originally posted by saint4God
Somebody needs to write to Merriam-Webster then. I have no problems using the word as they have it written until a better definition comes along.

It is all there, plain as day on the link you provided, you just need to keep reading past the 'holy' reference


Main Entry: 1hol·i·day
Pronunciation: 'hä-l&-"dA, British usually 'hä-l&-dE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hAligdæg, from hAlig holy + dæg day
1 : HOLY DAY
2 : a day on which one is exempt from work; specifically : a day marked by a general suspension of work in commemoration of an event
3 chiefly British : a period of relaxation : VACATION -- often used in the phrase on holiday; often used in plural
www.m-w.com...



and an exceprt from the Encylopedia Britanica, not a member so I can't view the rest:

(from “holy day”), originally, a day of dedication to religious observance; in modern times, a day of either religious or secular commemoration. Many holidays of the major world religions tend to occur at the approximate dates of more ancient, pagan festivals. In the case of Christianity, this is sometimes owing to the policy of the early church of scheduling Christian…

www.britannica.com...

Are we really serious?? I am a Christian, Belive in God, Jesus, and the Bible.
When I was a kid, Holloween was a fun time, to be scared, dress up and get LOTS of candy. I got to eat it until I was almost sick the first day, and then it was doled out though out the rest of the year. It was great fun. I had a lot of laughs, and plenty of scares. I would not think of takeing that away from my kids, they are not thinking about turning to Satan because of this holiday, or going and doing Evil because of it ether. They are kids, they are going to get FREE candy, and most of the time get to eat it until they almost or do get sick. We adults(so called) need to step back and let kids be kids, teach them good values and most of all LOVE them enough to let then have fun over a holiday that really means nothing but lots of candy and getting to dress up as something you like or as something gross and scary. Come On Folks, Grow Up and Be A Adult about this....it is just a Freakin' Holiday....not the Evil that will destroy the world ...or wrap you mind...or bend you spine...or make us lose the War...Sheesh!!!

American Halloween has little to do with the pagan celebration that people like to associate it with. It's just a fun time. I would never let my kids miss it,because honestly,I miss that time of my life. It was SO much fun to count the days 'til Halloween when Oct. 1st rolled around and discuss with your friends what you were gonna dress up as. I don't understand how people can compare wearing a costume and collecting candy to being tempted by satan. That's just crazy. Also,seeing as how the original "halloween" had NOTHING to do with Christianity or the devil.....where do people get these ideas?

Originally posted by Donner
It is all there, plain as day on the link you provided, you just need to keep reading past the 'holy' reference

Main Entry: 1hol·i·day
Pronunciation: 'hä-l&-"dA, British usually 'hä-l&-dE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hAligdæg, from hAlig holy + dæg day
1 : HOLY DAY
2 : a day on which one is exempt from work; specifically : a day marked by a general suspension of work in commemoration of an event
3 chiefly British : a period of relaxation : VACATION -- often used in the phrase on holiday; often used in plural
www.m-w.com...

Yes, but what does it mean when the dictionary lists it first? I could also go into why a Christian should involve God in their celebrations and why we're asked not to associate in pagan rituals. The question is, would anyone really want to read all of it?

and an exceprt from the Encylopedia Britanica, not a member so I can't view the rest:

(from “holy day”), originally, a day of dedication to religious observance; in modern times, a day of either religious or secular commemoration. Many holidays of the major world religions tend to occur at the approximate dates of more ancient, pagan festivals. In the case of Christianity, this is sometimes owing to the policy of the early church of scheduling Christian…

www.britannica.com...

Good (abeit extremely brief) history for anyone who hasn't read it before. *nods*

[edit on 24-10-2005 by saint4God]

Well, having been away for a week winding down the annual hubbub over children going door to door collecting candy has hit again. Only "religious" people worry over such nonsense.

I don't think one could find over 3 children in the country that knows the origins of Halloween and could actually give a hoot. That is 3 children that have not been told by their parents about what a "sinful" thing it is.

This ritual is no different than some practiced by Christians during their days of worship.

People need to get a life and figure out a way to end poverty etc. than a dad burned holiday.

By the way it is my FAVORITE!!! Why? Because the kids enjoy it, and it makes a kid out of me again.

Originally posted by psychosgirl
Also,seeing as how the original "halloween" had NOTHING to do with Christianity or the devil.....where do people get these ideas?

I'll split this into three to better illustrate. This is how it involves:

Celtic gods/Druidic beliefs - There are plenty of those in the druidic (and similar) faiths that still believe in the ritual and practice it as ritual.

The devil - Historically speaking, the Satanists I have encountered had a very Anti-Christian approach, up to and including the adopting and bastardizing of practices that belong to other faiths. To put it bluntly, Satanists have their own version of ritual that evening. The devil does enjoy fear, terror, and grotesqueness immensely as well, so it's to his benefit.

Christians - "This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good." - Jeremiah 10:1-6

Another important point is illustrated here in Jeremiah and that is Christians are not to fear symbols or rituals, just not practice them.

[edit on 24-10-2005 by saint4God]

Anybody remember the "King of the Hill" episode when Bobby and Louanne hook up with a fundamentalist anti-Halloween cult, and Hank and the guys have to rescue them?

Hey Saint, the satanic chuch holds each individuals birthday as the highest holy day, so are you going to not celebrate your birthday? I just don't understand the "isolate your kids from all "evil" philosophy". Its like not telling them about the flu and hoping they don't get it because they don't know about it. Kinda a head in the sand idea. Someone smarter than I said to keep your friends close and your enimies closer so why do christians run from evil and not learn what it is so as to defend against it? Anyway Halloween is a good or as bad as you make it, or more important how you make your children see it. Please add me to the sour candy lover list, sour patch kids are my fav., sour than chewwy... Mmmm

Well already I have seen the local TV ads for the celebration of Candyfest still turkey pictures and pumpkins are the pictured all over.

Mybe they don't know how evil Jack o' lantens can be.

Originally posted by jupiter869

Originally posted by wetwarez


The thing that irritates me the most about this, is that "Christians" still allow the portrayal of an "Easter Bunny" during the Easter holiday. I'd think that that form of Animism would go against their belief structure.

But, just as there's no consistency in the bible, I guess there is none in the fundamentalist belief either.

[edit on 10-18-2005 by wetwarez]

The irony of it all is that Christianity is FILLED with pagan rituals (including Easter, as you mentioned). Why condemn one if you're going to advocate another?

sol invicitus

Very true, chistianities biggest holiday, christmas, is a pagan holiday as well. It was not the birth of chris, he was truly born some time in september. december 25, is a roman holiday called Sol Invicitus, or the Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun. So there is paganism in chritianity anway so why fight about "pagan" holidays. Not that halloween is very pagan nowdays, although it may have started as All Hallows Eve and some scaring of the evil spirits or whatever, its more of a fun holiday for kids nowadays.

Originally posted by saint4God


Yes, but what does it mean when the dictionary lists it first? I could also go into why a Christian should involve God in their celebrations and why we're asked not to associate in pagan rituals. The question is, would anyone really want to read all of it?

You should ALWAYS read everything. Read the fine print. Read the footnotes. Read read read. How can you TRULY be knowledgeable about ANYTHING if you dont understand something completely? And this is simply about as obvious an example as you could hope to find. To only read part of something so that you only understand it partly (or what you WANT to understand) is shameful. Remember that to only understand something partly is to not understand it at all. This ESPECIALLY goes for religion. And the silly FEAR of Halloween only reinforces that to be ignorant is not bliss. (The real question is, did you really READ through all of this posting?)

I live in the south and both my parents were hell-fire and brimstone ministers, still, I was never denied the right to a fun halloween. Though we lived in the church and the main doors were closed the doors to our living quarters were kept open and candy was passed out. It was nothing more then a fun occasion and my parents never let it go beyond that.

I didn't get into trouble over halloween till I was much older. I took my small children out trick-or-treating and my son, dressed as a ghoul was five years old. No sooner did we hit the streets then he fell and cracked open his head. It was REAL blood running down his face but he wasn't about to skip the candy and I didn't have the heart to make him. We were out for an hour or so and when we got back, ALL HELL broke loose. It was the scariest halloween of my life. i thought my wife was actually going to kill me.

Anyway, fun memories now that its 20 years into my past.

Happy halloween my friends, love and light to each of you,

Wupy

Originally posted by mrwupy


Happy halloween my friends, love and light to each of you,

Wupy

LOL! I have a history much like yours mrwupy. My only Halloween in which I almost got in trouble came when I was 12 or 13 years old. We threw water balloons off the school property that set above the passing highway. That apparently is something between a misdeamenor and something else. We ran like hell. They didn't catch us. But it was one rush!

Why do christians always say that people forget the true meaning
of christmas, (it's ran by an eastern syndicate you know!)
Then turn around and say we are celebrating an evil holiday!
Halloween is about costumes & candy. Beer for adult partiers.
Christmas is about food & presents to most kids and adults.
People should lighten up & let parents teach their kid values.

The reason Halloween is such a kid's holiday is because, when it started, three out of five kids DIED before they hit puberty. You only had a 20% chance of making it to your eighteenth birthday. Those who survived the previous year would (on halloween) run through the streets wearing scary costumes to keep the dead from possessing anybody, (a shot at a full life and all that.) But in the end, it was really another day to remember those loved ones who past on in the past year.

Where's the big deal? It's STILL a kid's holiday....let them keep it!

[edit on 24-10-2005 by Toelint]

Originally posted by savagecupid
Hey Saint, the satanic chuch holds each individuals birthday as the highest holy day, so are you going to not celebrate your birthday?

Interesting that you've brought it up. I did stop celebrating my birthday, but not because my local cults did too. The motivation for a birthday is to celebrate your own birth. The idea no longer appeals to me. I'll celebrate other's "happy to be alive"ness, to show they're loved. That's in the Book, "to love your neighbor".

Originally posted by savagecupid
I just don't understand the "isolate your kids from all "evil" philosophy". Its like not telling them about the flu and hoping they don't get it because they don't know about it. Kinda a head in the sand idea.

Actually, I think one should be well-educated enough to make a conscious decision about it. If kid said "I'm celebrating Halloween", I'm not going to prevent it.

Originally posted by savagecupid
Someone smarter than I said to keep your friends close and your enimies closer so why do christians run from evil and not learn what it is so as to defend against it?

Christians should not run from anything, especially evil. Let me clarify the term "enemy" though. No wo/man on this earth is my enemy. Yeah, I'd considered the devil and his ethereal crew my enemy and we've dealt with each other before. No doubt will again too. He likes to piss around with me now and then. For what reason I don't know. Kind of a waste of time and energy really.

Originally posted by savagecupid
Anyway Halloween is a good or as bad as you make it, or more important how you make your children see it.

How you make your children see it? That's an interesting statement.

Originally posted by savagecupid
Please add me to the sour candy lover list, sour patch kids are my fav., sour than chewwy... Mmmm

They're good. Lemonheads are rockin' too.

FYI the term "Halloween" comes from "All Hollow's Eve" As in the Day before All Hollows Day(Nov 1) and All Saints Day (Nov 2).
On the night before these two holy days all Good Christians should go out and participate in scaring away evil spirits and Satan by dressing up and getting candy for it.
So any who don't are obviously serving Satan.
OMG, this means Saint4God is serving satan!

J/k

[edit on 25-10-2005 by I_AM_that_I_AM]

Originally posted by jupiter869
You should ALWAYS read everything. Read the fine print. Read the footnotes. Read read read. How can you TRULY be knowledgeable about ANYTHING if you dont understand something completely?

That's the spirit!

Originally posted by jupiter869
And this is simply about as obvious an example as you could hope to find. To only read part of something so that you only understand it partly (or what you WANT to understand) is shameful. Remember that to only understand something partly is to not understand it at all. This ESPECIALLY goes for religion. And the silly FEAR of Halloween only reinforces that to be ignorant is not bliss.

NEWSFLASH! You don't have to have Halloween to have fun. I know that's a crushing blow for historically pagan-ritual fanatics, but look, there are plenty of things we can do everyday to celebrate as Christians the gifts God has given us. You'd encouraged me to expand on a few points as to why we should not celebrate Halloween and why we should include God in celebrations because you would indeed read it all so here we go:

Let's then consider the following:

"Nothing in all creations is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account." Hebrews 4:13

We must therefore account for all that we do as He sees it all. How do we explain to God that we continued a pagan ritual for other gods? That we "didn't mean it" as a ritual because we just wanted to have fun. That we encouraged/inspired fear, terror, and grotesqueness in our children?


Ask yourself, does God consider Halloween to be pure?

"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their action they deny him" Titus 1:15

Is the action of Halloween advocating God or denying him?


Here's why we should deny ignorance (not accept the "it's just for fun" argument for advocating Halloween):

"Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil." Thessalonians 5:21

Is there any kind of evil in Halloween? If your answer is "no", I have some experiences to share to help remove the blinders. U2U me.


And finally, why Christians should include God in all they do:

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." Colossians 3:17

Are you including God in Halloween?

Originally posted by jupiter869
(The real question is, did you really READ through all of this posting?)

Yes. I did.

[edit on 25-10-2005 by saint4God]

Well Saint I try to keep it a fun and safe time. I worry about the real monsters out there more than the supernatural ones. My son and I have been reading the Halloween Tree together, really a good book to see the different traditions about the holiday, and this year we are trying the traditional day of the dead activities from Mexico. It seems like you have a realistic view of the day, but some christians here(my location) are so... narrow minded about it and uninformed. They still let there kids dress up but it has to be "nice" things only. So I guess even today some christians are still trying to make it a christian day. Happy Halloween everyone!!!

NEWSFLASH! You don't have to have Halloween to have fun. I know that's a crushing blow for historically pagan-ritual fanatics, but look, there are plenty of things we can do everyday to celebrate as Christians the gifts God has given us.

NEWSFLASH!! GOD could not really give a hoot if little children between the ages of 2 and 12 dress up as "spooks" and go door to door to trick or treat.

Yes, there are things we can celebrate daily for the gifts GOD has given us. However, if a certain segment of GOD's children continually try to knock those gifts down then the children of GOD have done just the opposite of what he wishes.

Saint, my friend, one MUST get one's nose out of the Bible and begin thinking in more spiritual terms than indoctination. I am not a finger pointer, however I have seen more and more a conservative bend to your Christianity, and thus your spirituality.

Christianity continues to narrow and narrow and narrow until no one wants to hear the word of Christ. That was definitely NOT Christ's intentions. Christianity should be the realization of Christ's ending of his physical existence for our sins. No more and no less. GOD put us on this planet to create from what he created for us, and for us to experience, and thus he experience what his children do.

He sent his "only" son to give us the word. This message becomes more and more lost in the chaos of "religion". His message is not getting out for many now turn their heads from it because of the misguided understandings and teachings of man. In fact, Jesus called himself the "son of man". What did he REALLY mean by that?

What is GOD's first "commandment", and what is the FULL implication of such? Think in abstract terms-GOD gave all the power to do so. For he is the biggest abstract thinker there is. His view in not narrow, but very broad.

TRICK OR TREAT!!!!