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The Halloween Controversy

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posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
NEWSFLASH!!


Hey, that was my line



Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
GOD could not really give a hoot if little children between the ages of 2 and 12 dress up as "spooks" and go door to door to trick or treat.

Yes, there are things we can celebrate daily for the gifts GOD has given us. However, if a certain segment of GOD's children continually try to knock those gifts down then the children of GOD have done just the opposite of what he wishes.


I respect your views madman, always have. I'm not here to make decisions for others, just pointing out what we should be considering. I've not told any non-Christians they shouldn't celebrate Halloween and intentionally so.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Saint, my friend, one MUST get one's nose out of the Bible


Hehee!
I'll take that as a compliment, though I know it wasn't intended as such. I've found the Book more and more useful these days after the trial and error failures of years past.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
and begin thinking in more spiritual terms than indoctination.


There is much learning and teaching to be done spiritually. I intend on doing both because both are beneficial.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I am not a finger pointer, however I have seen more and more a conservative bend to your Christianity, and thus your spirituality.


In this particular case, I will agree and feel it's necessary. Possibly because I've had a pretty high-level of exposure in this specific field.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Christianity continues to narrow and narrow and narrow until no one wants to hear the word of Christ.


What Christian does not want to hear the word of Christ? My address is not to non-Christians.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
That was definitely NOT Christ's intentions. Christianity should be the realization of Christ's ending of his physical existence for our sins. No more and no less. GOD put us on this planet to create from what he created for us, and for us to experience, and thus he experience what his children do.


I agree that no less should be considered, though I think it's our responsibility to seek to please God out of love and to grow spiritually.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
He sent his "only" son to give us the word. This message becomes more and more lost in the chaos of "religion". His message is not getting out for many now turn their heads from it because of the misguided understandings and teachings of man. In fact, Jesus called himself the "son of man". What did he REALLY mean by that?


Maybe we can discuss that on a new thread. I'd like to hear what others have to say about it as well.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
What is GOD's first "commandment", and what is the FULL implication of such?


The first commandment directly relates to the topic here. "You shall have no other gods before me" (Exodus 30:3). Even better clarity as to how it relates comes from Christ stating the same thing, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment" (Matthew 22:37). By celebrating Halloween, are we loving the Lord with all our heart, soul and mind? I'll leave that to each of us as individuals to decide.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Think in abstract terms-GOD gave all the power to do so. For he is the biggest abstract thinker there is. His view in not narrow, but very broad.


All I have to say is: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and road is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13)


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
TRICK OR TREAT!!!!


God bless you and may He keep you close.

[edit on 25-10-2005 by saint4God]




posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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Actually, the trick or treat part is probably the most misunderstood part of Halloween! In the very beginning, the two were separate celebrations that happened to occur at the same time. While the kids were running through town in costume, scaring off evil spirits, the traveling poor were going door-to-door and asking for Honey and Cake. In exchange, each family that provided this would have the poor give thanks to God and prayer for the family's loved ones who passed away that year.

Hmm, the more I study, the more Christian this holiday gets!


PS, Saint, would we be better off if we took Halloween with "dead" seriousness (no pun intended, I promise
) and sent the kids out in costume with EVERY INTENTION of scaring away evil spirits??


[edit on 25-10-2005 by Toelint]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Toelint
In exchange, each family that provided this would have the poor give thanks to God and prayer for the family's loved ones who passed away that year.


Yeah, and the Jack-o-Lantern was a lesson about not making deals with the devil. *shrug*


Originally posted by Toelint
Hmm, the more I study, the more Christian this holiday gets!


Don't you mean "Christianized"? The pagans are complaining that we're Christianizing their holidays and being oppressive by doing so. I think they're right in that they should be separate. I think it's time they get their holidays back and we get ours. This idea of blending dates and traditions to appease the townfolk and propagate a "variant-Christianity" does not seem to be a good one according to the Book. I can provide sources if you're interested, but I may have reached my Bible quote quota for this thread. That and it hardly seems fair I have to do the work, yet the responses seem to be Bibleless.


Originally posted by Toelint
PS, Saint, would we be better off if we took Halloween with "dead" seriousness (no pun intended, I promise
) and sent the kids out in costume with EVERY INTENTION of scaring away evil spirits??



Why does everyone think I, and any Christian for that matter, cannot have fun and be silly? Just ain't gonna do it via Samhain, that's all.

The fact that you're providing a religious practice without seriousness is a problem in itself, is it not?

I wish there could be a course taught called the Physics of Evil because once understood, it's a fascinating, yet a common-sense line of thinking. When you fight fire with fire, you get...guess what...more fire. "Quick, get the garden hose! The basement is flooded and I need to pour on more water to push it back down!" A simple principle really, but with a thousand applications. Make sure y'all do your homework so we can start Lesson 2: Evocation.

Hey jupiter, have I provided enough "Halloween Controversy" yet?


[edit on 25-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 02:19 PM
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In my experience not all Christians dislike Halloween. I think the more extreme fanatics do, but that is a small number in comparison with the more balanced Christians.



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
In my experience not all Christians dislike Halloween. I think the more extreme fanatics do, but that is a small number in comparison with the more balanced Christians.


Uh huh, I hear ya. Gee I wish I were making all this stuff up



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Uh huh, I hear ya. Gee I wish I were making all this stuff up


Well, seriously i'm being truthful. I'm not what anyone would call a Christian myself. But, I come from a very rural Christian town and everyone celebrates Halloween except the separate churches that are extreme in their faith.

Edited to remove excess quote

[edit on 25-10-2005 by zenlover28]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
Well, seriously i'm being truthful. I'm not what anyone would call a Christian myself. But, I come from a very rural Christian town and everyone celebrates Halloween except the separate churches that are extreme in their faith.


Aight, that's understandable. I guess I'm the most "extreme" person on this thread, but don't consider myself extreme at all. From the shnizzle I've seen go down, that's how I formed my impressions of the holyday, not from burying my nose in any book. There is some very "extreme" stuff that goes on, and I'm not talking about Christians or kids trick or treating. I believe it's each of our responsibility to do the research though and ask important questions like: Is Samhain a religious practice? Who is it a religious practice for? What does God have to say about it?

No need to ask me (I think I've said my peace here anyway), go to Him, and go to the Word.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 25-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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I by no means want to get off topic or get into a tiff with you saint4god on the validity of God and the devil and what God would want, blah, blah, blah. I was just pointing out that most Christians who are not extreme in their faith are in fact not against Halloween.

Edited to remove excess quote

[edit on 25-10-2005 by zenlover28]



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
I by no means want to get off topic or get into a tiff with you saint4god on the validity of God and the devil and what God would want, blah, blah, blah. I was just pointing out that most Christians who are not extreme in their faith are in fact not against Halloween.


Sure, no worries friend



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Yeah, and the Jack-o-Lantern was a lesson about not making deals with the devil. *shrug*


Gee, and I always thought it was something great to do. Cutting the pumpkin for Halloween night. I certainly have never done it to make a deal with the devil. I did it not only for my pleasure, but for the pleasure of others.

This is what I spoke of above. I doubt one could find more than 1% of the population that does such for that purpose. I admit it may not make it "right", however I certainly don't believe most do it for it's "apparent" connotations.

I reckon I'll have to "wrestle" the computer from me daughter tonite. You shall hear from me soon my friend, saint.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

Yeah, and the Jack-o-Lantern was a lesson about not making deals with the devil. *shrug*


Gee, and I always thought it was something great to do. Cutting the pumpkin for Halloween night.


I used to do the same thing. GUYS! I'm not saying I never celebrated Halloween, that you're the devils minions if you do, nor that I hate fun. Please don't misunderstand. I'm saying that every celebrations should include God. I'm just pointing out there's a conflict between Samhain/Halloween and God as a Christian and asking you to resolve that appropriately. That's what all my posts are about in this thread.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I certainly have never done it to make a deal with the devil. I did it not only for my pleasure, but for the pleasure of others.


That was the myth behind it. Not saying anyone does or ever did that. I can say that "making a deal with the devil" is not as far fetched as most people may think, but that's info for another thread.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
This is what I spoke of above. I doubt one could find more than 1% of the population that does such for that purpose. I admit it may not make it "right", however I certainly don't believe most do it for it's "apparent" connotations.

I reckon I'll have to "wrestle" the computer from me daughter tonite. You shall hear from me soon my friend, saint.


Looking forward to it sir, always enjoy the talks.


[edit on 26-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 02:19 PM
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In the Scriptures the word 'holy' means to be 'set apart' or 'seperate'. It is our Heavenly Father and Creator that asks us to be seperate (holy) from things that the world or mere men have made holy. Halloween is not one of the Holidays (Holy Days) designated by our Heavenly Father and Creator that we are to keep. It is a pagan holiday. Pagans are outsiders and we are to be seperated from them. Our Heavenly Father gives one a choice to do what is righteous in His eyes, so it is ones personal choice to celebrate Halloween or not. I will not so much as try to stop anyone from doing what they want. It is my choice to do what our Heavenly Father and Creator wants me to do.

www.angelfire.com...

[edit on 10/26/05 by Frank4YAHWEH]



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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saint4God,

So . . . are you going to give candy to the Innocent children or not.


After this lengthy thread I figure that by now you will be against Halloween but not the littler ones, so will you be giving candy away?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 09:10 PM
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so, can us non-christians celebrate halloween in peace?(making ourselves seperate from you guys,us being terrible pagans and all.) is it possible for christians not to throw satan into non-christian holidays....you know,the one's that have absolutely nothing to do with the christian devil?.....or any satan-like entity for that matter.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Frank4YAHWEH
In the Scriptures the word 'holy' means to be 'set apart' or 'seperate'. It is our Heavenly Father and Creator that asks us to be seperate (holy) from things that the world or mere men have made holy. Halloween is not one of the Holidays (Holy Days) designated by our Heavenly Father and Creator that we are to keep. It is a pagan holiday. Pagans are outsiders and we are to be seperated from them. Our Heavenly Father gives one a choice to do what is righteous in His eyes, so it is ones personal choice to celebrate Halloween or not. I will not so much as try to stop anyone from doing what they want. It is my choice to do what our Heavenly Father and Creator wants me to do.

www.angelfire.com...

[edit on 10/26/05 by Frank4YAHWEH]


When you say "Heavenly Father", do you mean "God"?
Are you saying that God specifically "designated" the holidays that we are to celebrate? Where did he do this? I didn't realize there actually is a finite list of them.

My other question is, did He say that this list is the only list of holidays we are to celebrate? Or can other holidays be added to the list, like Independence Day, or Mother's Day or New Year's Day, etc. so long as we also celebrate those holidays on His designated list?



[edit on 26-10-2005 by jupiter869]



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Frank4YAHWEH
In the Scriptures the word 'holy' means to be 'set apart' or 'seperate'. It is our Heavenly Father and Creator that asks us to be seperate (holy) from things that the world or mere men have made holy. Halloween is not one of the Holidays (Holy Days) designated by our Heavenly Father and Creator that we are to keep. It is a pagan holiday. Pagans are outsiders and we are to be seperated from them. Our Heavenly Father gives one a choice to do what is righteous in His eyes, so it is ones personal choice to celebrate Halloween or not. I will not so much as try to stop anyone from doing what they want. It is my choice to do what our Heavenly Father and Creator wants me to do.




You have voted Frank4YAHWEH for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.


I have much to learn from you Frank. Plainly and simply you've stated what it took me pages to say. For that I have to give you a thumbs up!


Pray, train, study,
God bless.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
saint4God,

So . . . are you going to give candy to the Innocent children or not.


Not on Halloween night, no. Would I give liquor to an alcoholic?


Originally posted by marg6043
After this lengthy thread I figure that by now you will be against Halloween but not the littler ones, so will you be giving candy away?


You are correct that I'm not against the littler ones. Because I love them, I will not advocate fear, greed, nor overdoses of high frutose corn syrup, saturated fats, and extreme doses of C6H12O6.



Sound straight-laced? Not really. I believe adults have the responsibility of being adults. Sugar is fine, but in moderation.



I'd like to see that move again, it was a good one!



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by psychosgirl
so, can us non-christians celebrate halloween in peace?


Yes.


Originally posted by psychosgirl
(making ourselves seperate from you guys,us being terrible pagans and all.)


Who said you were terrible? It wasn't me.


Originally posted by psychosgirl
is it possible for christians not to throw satan into non-christian holidays....you know,the one's that have absolutely nothing to do with the christian devil?.....or any satan-like entity for that matter.


I think one needs to review the evidence, research and make that decision on their own. The issue isn't Satan for most people, the issue is, is it for and with God or is it not? You don't have to physically worship Satan to sin.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Well, for all the ADULTS out there. Happy Halloween. Saint4God, hope you don't get egged on the all hellish mischief night. Uh, Oh, I think I brought up another bad strange teenagish human right of passage. Oh, and this has nothing to do with any Holyday, Holiday.


Ease up a bit. My daughter is born on Halloween. She will be 16 and she went out till about two years ago. When she decided it was for little kids. I am Catholic and I celebrate Halloween with my children and just to freak you out even more the Convent, that is where the nuns live ya know? Are having a haunted hellish convent.

I am sure that God will see his way past it and let the nuns entertain the children. And then on November second the children and the nuns will celebrate All saints day. That would be the communion of saints. We will all pray real hard that God will get you to lighten up.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Saint4God, hope you don't get egged on the all hellish mischief night.


Thanks, I appreciate your genuine concern for my well being.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Uh, Oh, I think I brought up another bad strange teenagish human right of passage.


If my daughter wants to celebrate Halloween then so be it. Nice try, trying to appeal Amnesty International for intervention
. How about this? I have the right to be a parent until she's 18. It's not a feeling or belief, it's the law. Write to your congressman if you have issue with that, it's not my doing.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Oh, and this has nothing to do with any Holyday, Holiday.


Whateva, if you don't want to read the dictionary then that's up to you.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
I am Catholic and I celebrate Halloween with my children and just to freak you out even more the Convent, that is where the nuns live ya know?


And this is news and/or freaks me out how?


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Are having a haunted hellish convent.

I am sure that God will see his way past it and let the nuns entertain the children. And then on November second the children and the nuns will celebrate All saints day. That would be the communion of saints. We will all pray real hard that God will get you to lighten up.


I look forward to His answer...though I think I already know what it is.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by saint4God]






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