The Halloween Controversy

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posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Full Metal me as a girl, doing the whole opposites thing. Thankfully she went with me to buy the skirt and high heels and is teaching me how to walk in those things. How you women do it is beyond me, or why you do it, those things kill my ankles.


in the words of Crash Davis, the flower goes in the front big guy.




posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Never heard of him but ok. Thinking of going with slippers or something else cause those shoes kill. A point to the discussion...

Any other time if she dressed as a guy she would be called Butch, Dyke, whatever, and me as a girl a Drag Queen or whatever, but for Halloween it is for fun. Now according to christians fun is a sin so I can see them hating it, but God doesn't hate fun, look at the 10 Commandments, no where does he say "Thou Shalt Not Have Fun".



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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last year in ohio and kentucky who were going anti-halloween(which happens to be my favorite holiday). some of the churches had "hell-houses" , where instead of a haunted house you get led through what is supposed to be hell and told what can send you there. i laughed the whole way through,then went and visited a crazy,gory,insanely fun halloween haunted house.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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OMG psychosgirl, those hell houses are so bad they deserve their own thread.

I watched one on TV and it is pure control through fear. It's sickening.



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Full Metal
Christianity has no holidays, it stole them from everyone else. They also stole everything from other religons. They have nothing original, SOn of God, Evil God, floods, nothing original. It was stolen from everything else. Zues and Hurn and Odin and Apollo and well, you get the point...


sigh

Christmas is the feast of Sol Invictus, Easter has some fertility cult connection, etc, etc. Prove it, please. Christianity is a rip-off; there are so many things in other religions that the evil Jedeo-Christian plagarized. Please. Who's to say that the Great Flood, the Garden of Eden, the Birth of Moses and the reed basket aren't OTHER culture's reationalizations of what happened in the Bible. Doesn't a lot of this confirm the Bible?

Now, you might be thinking that I am some fundamentalist nut. No, I am a devout Catholic and a historian. This is not a contradiction. Despite what some folks here believe, Catholicism is a very intellectual faith. Much of what I know of neo-paganism on the other hand, has a very sketchy legitimacy with some hundreds or even thousands of years gaps in continuity and tradition. So, all you pagans - I won't tear your religion apart, I won't attack your legitimacy if you have some respect for other people's beliefs.

As far as Halloween goes; as has been mentioned in some posts, it is so far removed from any original roots - Samhain - so as to be really very harmless. Christmas for most Americans isn't a religious holiday, nor Easter. They have been so thorougly compromised by commercialism and secular humanists as to have lost their significance for many people.

God knows there are some people - too many, actually - that use Christianity as a bludgeon to tear things apart. I am not in the position to judge anyone - a true Christian will know that we are ALL unworthy and that we all will be judged by God and God alone. We all rely on His love for us and His mercy. So relax, people. If you are so deadset against it - don't celebrate it. It's that simple...

Thanks for following me in my epistle....



posted on Oct, 18 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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There is a church about 20 miles away that has those hell house things too. From what I've heard they aren't that good. My church got people going once and well I didn't bother to, but anyways, those that went ended up waiting in line till 1:00 in the morning! I live in small populated county in the Tennessee for those who are curious. I don't bother with things like that anyways. I just sit at home eating and watching my yard periodically for vandals!



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 06:24 AM
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Do some people really believe that if you go out trick or treating on Halloween, then you're worshipping the devil? If they are, then they aren't doing it conciously. And I don't think you can worship God or a demon without knowing you're doing it. So get out there and have some fun. God is smiling down on you!



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by Full Metal
Today a church is a place where you spend a pay check to make sure you go to hell while you worry if the minister is molesting your kid.


Tell me please, exactly how many churches have you regularly attended in order to make this assessment?



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 06:57 AM
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Yeah, Full Metal, I realize that's your opinion and you're more than welcome to both have it and share it. But I've got every right to point out that a generalized erroneous statement like that really looks worse on you than it does the people you were attempting to disparage.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Holden
Do some people really believe that if you go out trick or treating on Halloween, then you're worshipping the devil?


I don't think so. If they do, they make the news because it's very rare.



Originally posted by Holden
If they are, then they aren't doing it conciously.


We're here to raise consciousness. I.E. Deny Ignorance. I think we should all know the roots and I can attest that there are many who still practice both the original Celtic Religion and a bastardization thereof (Satanists).


Originally posted by Holden
And I don't think you can worship God or a demon without knowing you're doing it.


Actually you can. In fact, most of us do in our daily lives. Worshipping money, adultery in our hearts when we're already married, anger/hate towards our neighbors or enemies...who is our god in these incidences?


Originally posted by Holden
So get out there and have some fun. God is smiling down on you!


God loves everyone and therefore does not want to punish us for our sins. He wants us to "be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). We should all know that no-one is perfect (Romans 3:23), which is why it's so important to believe in His son in order to have those sins dealt with. Even after, nevertheless we are to do our best to do the right things for the right reasons. If we love Him, then we'll want to do what He wants, not what we want. Does He want us to have a good time? Of course He does! Does He want us to participate in a traditional ritual for other gods? (Psst! The answer is in Exodus 20:3)

[edit on 19-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by psychosgirl
last year in ohio and kentucky who were going anti-halloween(which happens to be my favorite holiday). some of the churches had "hell-houses" , where instead of a haunted house you get led through what is supposed to be hell and told what can send you there. i laughed the whole way through,then went and visited a crazy,gory,insanely fun halloween haunted house.


those "hell houses" can be fun. When they start talking about how you can wind up in hell by doing certain things, you can whip out a piece of paper and pretend to check things off the list. got it, need it, got it, etc. perhaps take one sin and twist it a bit and ask if you get extra credit for sex with 2 donkeys instead of 1.

the people that run those things are probably the same people who stood on bourbon street (in drier days) during mardi gras and shouted to the crowd "there's no mardi gras in hell"

I love those people. such easy marks. never did leave a conversation with them without taking at least one of their women with us.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Full Metal
Hatedcross,


Looks like what they call in the business a "Freudian slip".



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 06:40 AM
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Why is everyone making such a big deal about Halloween and Christianity?
Halloween and Christianiaty have NOTHING to do with each other.

Halloween isn't a Christian holiday...
it's not even a druid holiday anymore--not the way it is celebrated today.
Halloween is an AMERICAN holiday!
That's why even the First Family celebrates it. Now then, who in here is an American?



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Holden
Halloween and Christianiaty have NOTHING to do with each other.


Exactly! Christians have no business practicing Halloween, and Halloween practioners have no business harassing Christians about it.


Holiday means "Holy Day":

Main Entry: 1hol·i·day
Pronunciation: 'hä-l&-"dA, British usually 'hä-l&-dE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hAligdæg, from hAlig holy + dæg day
1 : HOLY DAY
www.m-w.com...

By the way, I don't worship America so I wouldn't celebrate an American "Holy Day". I like the country a lot though, and am grateful for all the freedoms it has given.


[edit on 20-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Holden
Halloween and Christianiaty have NOTHING to do with each other.


Exactly! Christians have no business practicing Halloween, and Halloween practioners have no business harassing Christians about it.


Holiday means "Holy Day":

Main Entry: 1hol·i·day
Pronunciation: 'hä-l&-"dA, British usually 'hä-l&-dE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hAligdæg, from hAlig holy + dæg day
1 : HOLY DAY
www.m-w.com...

By the way, I don't worship America so I wouldn't celebrate an American "Holy Day". I like the country a lot though, and am grateful for all the freedoms it has given.


[edit on 20-10-2005 by saint4God]


You don't even celebrate America's Independence Day? Or Thanksgiving? As both of these holidays are American.

Oh, and a short postscript to your comment above: I should point out (no offense meant) that holiday does not in fact mean holy day. It did have it's English derivation from two words: holy day, but it's meaning, of course, has taken on a completely new definition and dynamic as so many words in the English language do over time





[edit on 20-10-2005 by jupiter869]



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 08:00 AM
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I suspect that a lot of the reason why Halloween is so big in the US (and comparatively less so over here in the UK) is that it has been allowed to flourish as a secular celebration. It has no religious overtones and is therefore happily included in school lessons. If you add in the fact that kids love to be scared it makes for a great little day of the year.

Sure it is overly commercialised but then again what isn't? What is perhaps more interesting for me about Halloween is not so much how it draws on its pagan roots, but on the tradition of carnival.

It is a holiday of excess and street revelry where children for one night are kings/queens (albeit monarchical monsters) given the power to inflict 'punishments' on those who do not give them their treats. In this way, it fits quite nicely in the tradition of Lords of Misrule or Boy Bishop, not only are the kids allowed to be 'bad' (indeed they assume the physical appearence of evil monsters and ghouls) but they also symbolically invert their position of authority.

In this way, Halloween is very much a secular celebration with very real cultural meaning for children. For adults, it is a great excuse to pop down to the cinema and watch some of the new horror films released in time for All Hallow's Eve.


[edit on 20-10-2005 by kedfr]



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by jupiter869
You don't even celebrate America's Independence Day?


Nah. Again, grateful for all that was done to form the country, but many people died in the war for independence. Hard to be happy about that. No worshipping or traditional ritual goes on by anyone that I know of on that day. Work gives me the day off which is nice. I have an easier time recognizing Martin Luther King Day, because there was a man of God who promoted equality without violence. How cool is that? I'll give the nod to it, but wouldn't call it a holyday.


Originally posted by jupiter869
Or Thanksgiving? As both of these holidays are American.


I think getting the family together to thank God for a bountiful harvest is a fabulous idea! Reminds me of Matthew 6:9. In fact, I'd like to have many more days like that. Perhaps everyday.


Originally posted by jupiter869
Oh, and a short postscript to your comment above: I should point out (no offense meant) that holiday does not in fact mean holy day. It did have it's English derivation from two words: holy day, but it's meaning, of course, has taken on a completely new definition and dynamic as so many words in the English language do over time


Somebody needs to write to Merriam-Webster then. I have no problems using the word as they have it written until a better definition comes along.

[edit on 20-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 05:48 AM
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Hey, if they don't want to frighten away the (evil) spirits that walk the earth on Halloween then good luck to them. And way to suck the life and fun out of their children's lives. The anti-Halloween controversy is as simple as that.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by Holden
And I don't think you can worship God or a demon without knowing you're doing it.



Originally posted by saint4God
Actually you can. In fact, most of us do in our daily lives. Worshipping money, adultery in our hearts when we're already married, anger/hate towards our neighbors or enemies...who is our god in these incidences?


Saint, this brings up an interesting topic in and of itself. One I think I'll post in the religious wossname thingy. If you wants to contribute on that thread, your input would be welcome. While I disagree with your opinion on this matter, I think it'd make for great discussion material.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra
Saint, this brings up an interesting topic in and of itself. One I think I'll post in the religious wossname thingy. If you wants to contribute on that thread, your input would be welcome. While I disagree with your opinion on this matter, I think it'd make for great discussion material.


Glad I could help. If you have the thread title, I'd certainly take up the invitation.






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