Well, they killed her....

Originally posted by RANT

Blame the victim, blame the "chaperones" and when all else fails blame Byrd (for some strange reason)

So a drunk 18 year old who decides to leave with a pack of wild animals bears absolutely no responsibility in her own fate? And don't be mad at me for bringing up that there were chaperones along for the trip, the fact is there were and and they obviously didn't do what they were ostensibly sent there to do. Whether or not this would have turned out any differently had they done their job is a moot point now because this CHILD made a stupid mistake that she paid for with her life.

Originally posted by RR

Originally posted by RANT

Blame the victim, blame the "chaperones" and when all else fails blame Byrd (for some strange reason)

So a drunk 18 year old who decides to leave with a pack of wild animals bears absolutely no responsibility in her own fate? And don't be mad at me for bringing up that there were chaperones along for the trip, the fact is there were and and they obviously didn't do what they were ostensibly sent there to do. Whether or not this would have turned out any differently had they done their job is a moot point now because this CHILD made a stupid mistake that she paid for with her life.

Wow, what creepy and faulty logic there.

The point is she was attacked, it's not her fault she was attacked because she was attacked.

Is it everybody who works in a store at night's fault when they are robbed because it's so dangerous to work in a store? Uh.. No.

Is it everybody who lives in a dangerous part of town's fault if they are shot in the street? Uh.. No.

Come on, don't give me that nonsense, the list goes on. Next you'll be saying everybody who works at the pentagon or the world trade center made a stupid mistake for working in such a terrorist target.

You need to re-evaluate your life man.

If you're going to "blame" anyone, besides the murderers themselves, don't blame the victim. If anything, I'd blame the parents for letting her go on this trip. Who lets their daughter, barely out of high school, go to a foreign country with a 20:1 student:chaperone ratio?

Obviously this girl wasn't responsible or cautious enough to go on this trip without her parents. For that, I don't blame her. I blame the parents for letting her go, and above all, I blame the monster(s) who took this poor girl's life (assuming she was murdered and didn't just OD)!

Well now it looks like the AP report was correct and she is really dead, her parents being brought to the body. This story's unfolding is quite confusing...

Yeah I just saw on Fox that the police have confirmed her death. No details yet that I saw on how she died.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well now it looks like the AP report was correct and she is really dead, her parents being brought to the body. This story's unfolding is quite confusing...

It get even more confusing -- one news channel is saying that and another is still saying they haven't found the body --

I wish they would get together on this -- especially since I am sure they are reporting from the same general area.

Originally posted by RR

Originally posted by Byrd
I suspected it would end that way. She was friendly and naive, and broke one of the prime rules of being in a different area... stay with your group.

I'm sad for her parents. What a horrible thing to have happen to your child.

Maybe you are naive, who in their right mind would just up and leave with a bunch of unknown locals?

Well, just about every teen I've ever known. You're with people from that particular area, they know some "cool places" and you trot off with them (without taking your friends, or telling folks) to see something neat like a haunted lighthouse.

Heck, lots of adults would do it, too. Friendly people sometimes trust too easily.

She was most likely looking for something and thought she'd found it but, unfortunately, she found a bunch of animals instead. And on top of that where were the so-called chaperones? I tell you where they were, they were sitting in the same bar she was, drinking just like she was and because of that they didn't see her leave with a bunch of animals who did EXACTLY what animals do. It's sad she got killed but it is probably more naive to think she was completely innocent in all of this...

I'm probably a bit more paranoid than most parents, and I've likely traveled more. When my daughter went off to DC on a school trip, I did sit down with her and warn her about staying with the group and that it was irresponsible to head off without telling folks where she was going and who she was with.

Of course, I made them do that at home, too.

It's simple safety. I realize that most people probably don't think of these things, but I can be terribly paranoid where my family (or people under my responsibility) are concerned.

Her poor parents. Imagine, having to identify your child's body (actually, I don't have to imagine that. One of my coworkers' sons drowned about 12 years ago and the poor parents were too overwhelmed to make the identification. I made the ID on their behalf since I knew the kid.)

We, as parents, need to teach our kids some common sense... like not going off with new people without telling friends or family who you're going with and when you'll be back. If the ones who lured her out and killed her had heard her telling everyone "I'm going with these guys and I'll be back by midnight," it might have been just enough to keep them from carrying out their attack.

And she might have gone and come back in perfect safety.

Originally posted by JediMaster
they were doing drugs she fatally OD'd and they hid her body since they got nervous.

First of all, I haven´t read any news whatsoever about this. But from reading the replies here and from the details given in this thread, I think the scenario quoted above seems very likely to me. Might not even be a murder and she might not have been attacked. The crime might be that they hid her body after she accidentally died. My two cents ...

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
Wow, what creepy and faulty logic there.

Why? Because YOU say so?

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
The point is she was attacked, it's not her fault she was attacked because she was attacked.

But it WAS her decision to leave with them thereby laying the groundwork for something to happen.

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
Is it everybody who works in a store at night's fault when they are robbed because it's so dangerous to work in a store? Uh.. No.

Is it everybody who lives in a dangerous part of town's fault if they are shot in the street? Uh.. No.

Apples and oranges, you are refering to random acts of violence which doesn't apply here because SHE made the decision to leave with these "people", she wasn't abducted, she wasn't kidnapped out of her bed as she slept, SHE and SHE alone decided it was a good idea to go and do god knows what with people she didn't know and it got her killed.

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
Come on, don't give me that nonsense, the list goes on. Next you'll be saying everybody who works at the pentagon or the world trade center made a stupid mistake for working in such a terrorist target.

Again apples and oranges not to mention a rather odd way to insert your political drivel.

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
You need to re-evaluate your life man.

Huh? I need to re-evaluate my ENTIRE life because I don't share your opinion that this girl was completely innocent and was just a random victim of the evil of the world? Please...

I think everyone agrees it is ultimately the killers, assuming she is dead, fault. However, when are are going to expect people to be self responsiblity?

You don't have to be frightened of other places, or other people, but you should always be aware of your surroundings, and if you aren't you will eventually get hurt or killed.

I think that is as true in NY as it is in Aruba, or Iraq, or London, or Dublin, or Toronto, or Moscow, or ......... Get the point?

I am very sorry for the loss of daughter, but if she was prone to those gaps of comman sense, the chance is that she'd end up as a statistic anyway. Especially with those stats posted yeariier.

I certainly don't mean that to any disrespect to the memory of her, just trying to state what inside we all secretly know.

I do feel sorry for her family. Very much so. I think, though, that they and the school made an incredible error in judgment allowing high school seniors- some surely under 18- to go to Aruba the party capital for the sr class trip. Very bad idea. 7 chaperones for 124 active vital kids. Bars. Alcohol.

The kids were doing what kids (and non kids, too) do in such circumstances. They were partying. Who wouldn't in a place like that? Celebrating the end of high school.

But the idiots who planned the trip in Aruba instead of Washington DC or something and the parents- I don't level "blame" at them- but yes, that was a huge huge mistake.

There's the story of Amy Bradley which also ended- well, it hasn't ended yet- very badly. And there've been other girls than Amy targetted and even taken away.

It's dicey.

This doesn't mean I don't think younger women should ever go to any tourist spot- it just means that it's very dicey and that it really isn't a place for a senior trip.

As for Natalee bringing it on herself through her errors in judgment- well- does anything really seem at age 18 the way it does at age 25 or 30 or so? Does anything really seem when one's drunk and partying the way it seems other times? No. Sure she ended up in a situation that was dangerous and got way out of control but she didn't ask to be hurt and killed.

I will also point out that sometimes people who are being extremely careful sometimes still have bad things happen to them.

I just wish she was with her family, alive, healthy and getting ready for college.

I don't know,,,,
Maybe she was drugged before she left with those guys. She just didn't
appear to lack common sense. Accidental overdose all right, but I don't think it was her own doing. Just my gut feeling. It's really hard for parents now days. How long can you really protect your young adult children? I too feared she was dead. Those poor parents.

What has happened (whatever it may be) to Natalee Holloway deeply affects us here. I don't think that anyone here would say I am wrong about that. Also, the person or persons responsible for her harm should be punished because she was left in harms way, whether it was purposeful or accidental action.
I don't pay mind to the statistics in Aruba because I don't know how the Danish government works. All I know about that government is that about 90% of their revenue is received through tourists. It makes sense that the combination of that fact and that the 17 year old suspect is a judge's son results in careful action. Expensive reputations are at stake here.

cnn now shows that the mom is saying

www.cnn.com...

"The mother of a missing Alabama teenager said Sunday that she believes three young men who were with her daughter the day of her disappearance know what happened to her."

not the word MISSING..........not MURDERED teen.

she has still not been officially classified as "dead"


angie

I hope that Natalee is still alive just as I have hoped that the missing woman Amy Bradley is alive and well.

I've learned recently that Aruba, a Dutch Caribbean island, is governed by a local parliament. The Netherlands Antilles is responsible for their foreign and defense affairs.

Lets also keep in mind the fact that she was in Aruba at a night club, so even if she would not have made the decision to join those men normally, she may have been drunk. I have done a number of ridiculously unsafe and stupid things while drunk, and I can imagine that this decision was also the result of her being inebriated at the time.

People are often prone to suggestion and bad ideas when drunk, and this is no exception.

20 to 1 student to chaperon ratio!! I don't think there's much a chaperon could have done. The best protection for young girls is their friends. In this day and age young women, especially, need to look out for one another. If she is dead it's possible that she was drugged to death. It's been known to happen.

This kind of stuff makes me so sad!!

Peace

girls out there
please be careful
some of us love you.

(looks like politicos are calling in favors
for their rich kids again.
is it just me, or
are spoiled rich dudes constantly getting girls drunk,
and killing them?)

More arrests:

www.cnn.com...


Im betting that one of them did admit to killing her, but for some reason the authorities dont want anybody to know yet. Thats a pretty hard thing to blunder up for a reporter.