Thank You Germany & France...for the knife in the back!

If Germany and France "stabbed the US in the back", then the pro-killingfest Republicans are gorging out the eye sockets of the democratic minority in the US. The right wing in power is shifting the tax burden to the poor and middle class majority, and inflating the dollar for a war / occupation based on lies and not supported by the majority. All in the name of democracy?

This drivel is silly. Can you articulate the viewpoint of the other team? Do you care enough to try to see the situation from the standpoint of these other countries? Its so much easier to boast and bask in our American patriotic euphoria, the most deadly of drugs.

As a young American who will have double citizenship in France in October, there was something that brought a tear to my eye on this thread.

The violent strain of Americans is aware that we're winning. Yes, education has continued to civilize society. As more and more people my generation go to colleges, almost no one will be left to fight these stupid wars. What brings a tear to my eye is that it can be felt by these people; the world is changing for the better.

My grandfather volunteered at 16 for Vietnam. My uncle was in the Korean conflict. My father was drafted for Vietnam. All republicans.

When the Iraq war started, I was 19 years old and hit the streets to protest. I am a French-American free-market socialist. How often do you hear about generational political evolution in the other direction?

Over time and generations, the progressives are winning. Feudalism, slavery, women's voting rights, social security, the civil rights movement, legalization of abortion... King George might have us in a backsliding moment, but this is part of a long progression that is not dying off.

What will we see in the future? Equal rights for homosexual couples, public healthcare, social mobility for all, end of extreme poverty, end of war.

I wonder if slave owners toward the end of slavery ever shed a tear for the fact that their children would never know that sweet (sic), animalistic, raw power over another human quite the same way?

Peacebewithyou,

Nicely well put. But you have used the word "socialist" and that alone renders what you have written very beautifully as nonsense for many on these boards. That is because they link socialism with communist gulags and the KGB, but not a free market society with for example low college fees and health care insurance for all.



Blobber


[edit on 7-4-2005 by Blobber]

Listen xmotex, I know you can protect yourself, but without our military...can any man really stand alone? I think America has some hard knocks coming up in the future and we better be ready to hit back. BTW: Im not a bragger, why is it when someone shows a little patriotism, their called braggers?


Peace, this is about survival. Even as we speak the next 9/11 is being planned. I don't want to see Omaha or Houston become an open grave with 1000's dead in the streets......to prevent that means taking the fight to our enemies doorstep.

During WW II and the Korean War, the Liberals hated the war, but had the good sense to Shut-up and let the fighting men do what had to be done. Now-a-days, our boys are being dragged thru the mud by a hostile liberal Media and degenerate college professors. Your free today because of America Peace.....Please write to your government and protest the sale of these advanced weapons to China.


Maximu§

...Peace, this is about survival. Even as we speak the next 9/11 is being planned. I don't want to see Omaha or Houston become an open grave with 1000's dead in the streets......to prevent that means taking the fight to our enemies doorstep.

Maximus,

The fact that many here have different opinions does not imply they want to see another terrorist attack. But if you are linking Iraq with 9/11, then:
1- it is now clear Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11
2- it's still to be seen whether the current US policy in Iraq will lesten terrorism, or in broader sense, is good for the US

And come on, don't use those weapon sales in your debate. LOL you guys are one of the greatests weapon exporters to dictatorships, better put: non democratic governments.

Blobber

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Blobber]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
I have a 14 year old son who says the same thing. Last week Matthew had a few friends for a sleep-over. I overheard them late at night talking about killing communist Chinese soldiers, blowing away Islamic terrorists and cutting the balls off of OBL and his kind......and I almost got a tear in my eye.

Not from sorrow, but from joy!!

This must either be a joke, or your kind is the one that's driving this great country into the ground, by being an arrogant bunch of people our so-called leaders love to manipulate.

There are still American Boys with a pair between their legs

And it appears that they think with those, too.

who are not afraid of jacking up our enemies.

Since when the adolescent tough talk counts as heroic?

Boy what a fine family you got.

Correct me if I am wrong. But didn't the Americans try to kill of the native american people a few hundred years ago?

I could be wrong.

SSK

[edit on 7-4-2005 by sideshowk]

Originally posted by sideshowk
Correct me if I am wrong. But didn't the Americans try to kill of the native american people a few hundred years ago?

Yes, with a degree of success. But what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

Originally posted by sideshowk
Correct me if I am wrong. But didn't the Americans try to kill of the native american people a few hundred years ago?

I could be wrong.

SSK

So we burned a few Tee-Pee's, some of the tribes were attacking settlers and needed to be put down. This is about France and Germany, not a buncha Indians.

Maximu§

Thank you France and Germany for showing that there is a whole planet full of countries that are NOT the USA, and that can make up their own decisions when it comes to foreign policy, economics, and politics.

If ANOTHER country makes a decision that hinders the USA, deal with it, you bunch of whining babies.

When it comes down to it, nobody owes you anything. You stayed out of WWII until you were directly attacked. When you finally did join WWII you played a small part, despite what your movies and American historians might say.

You harm far more than you help.

So expect more of the same. The world will make their own decisions, and if it is harmful to US policy, big deal. Turnabout is fair play.


jako

as posted by Jakomo
When it comes down to it, nobody owes you anything. You stayed out of WWII until you were directly attacked. When you finally did join WWII you played a small part, despite what your movies and American historians might say.

You might want to spoon away that venom dripping from your lips, Jakomo, k?
Your lack of historical understanding leaves even me befuddled. :shk:
"A small part"?
Don't make me school you and make you look more idiotic then you already have made yourself look with what you have just said.
If it wasn't for the US and Lend Lease, the world would be a totally different place today.

:shk:





seekerof

Seekerof:

Don't make me school you and make you look more idiotic then you already have made yourself look with what you have just said.
If it wasn't for the US and Lend Lease, the world would be a totally different place today.

ROFL Yeah, please oh please school me and show me how the USA played a MAJOR part in WWII (which lasted from 1939-1945). I am waiting patiently. Please reference everything from 1939 on.

As for the US Lend Lease, yes, by the end of 1945, the U.S. had lent out over $45 billion in supplies. LENDED. To be paid back. Considering they were one of the only countries who didn't have to rebuild their own country, it makes sense.

And it's a LOAN. You were also dealing with Germany up to 1941, so what's the deal with that?

jako






[edit on 7-4-2005 by Jakomo]

Create a topic, in the proper forum, Jakomo.
I'll be more than happy to educate you limited knowledge and willingness to admit.

Let me know when and where you create it, k?

This topic is on: Thank You Germany & France...for the knife in the back!

Either you can let me know when and where you create it or I'll simply check your post history. Your choice, but I'll willingly accept the responsibility of rehabing' your limited WWII and US involvement historical education. Bet.

What thesis would you prefer to argue? Add that to your created topic on this, k?




seekerof

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Seekerof:

I'll be more than happy to educate you limited knowledge and willingness to admit.

Let me know when and where you create it, k?

This topic is on: Thank You Germany & France...for the knife in the back!

Either you can let me know when and where you create it or I'll simply check your post history. Your choice, but I'll willingly accept the responsibility of rehabing' your limited WWII and US involvement historical education. Bet.

Actually, if you scroll back to the first post, this is the original posters thesis:

Thank You Germany...we protected you for generations and this is how you repay America?

Thank You France....our boys bled to death on the beaches of Normandy and this is your gratitude?

If you don't want to come across as being an arrogant jerk, try to actually pay attention to the thread main points. I'll still be waiting to be wowed by your facts on the times I asked about in my last post. But I imagine I will be waiting quite some time, since your "facts" are actually "opinion", but you've made that same mistake before, so I'm used to it.



jako

as posted by Jakomo
If you don't want to come across as being an arrogant jerk, try to actually pay attention to the thread main points. I'll still be waiting to be wowed by your facts on the times I asked about in my last post. But I imagine I will be waiting quite some time, since your "facts" are actually "opinion", but you've made that same mistake before, so I'm used to it.

My name is seekerof and not jerk, k?
Talk is cheap, Jakomo.
Create the topic in a proper forum.



seekerof

I think I've made my point here, actually. And it's on topic. The original link was :

www.iht.com...

Which discusses how Germany and France are going to deal with China, and the original poster said "This is how they repay us for saving their butts?". And I addressed the fallacy that the USA has saved ANYONE'S butts in WWII.

Have a good one,

Jakomo

The USA and USSR save Europes arse in WW2. Thats not Hollywood, thats fact. Never forget it, the USA has earnt friendship and trust from Europe with the blood of her men. The 'very small role' was contributing two million men and a few trillion worth of equipment and money to rebuild.

This makes western Europe and the US friends, blood brothers almost. And when you see a friend doing something really, really stupid you go over and say 'look mate, think about this'.

Its not a stab in the back, its an attempt to help!

No the USA wouldnt have a place to attack from if it wasnt for britian and nethier would russia have supplies if it wasnt for britain.
Nethier would the task force of even survived if it hadnt been for the paras....

Going cripplingly off topic here but:

Just because England provided a landmass to stage an invasion from doesnt diminish the vast US effort. US supplies to the USSR masively outstrip Englands contributions. The US provided Russia with food, we provided crap tanks.

Not difficult to see who was more useful. The US could have won without England.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus

So we burned a few Tee-Pee's, some of the tribes were attacking settlers and needed to be put down...

Maximu§

See how very subjective "truth" is? The above line could also have been written as follow: "The heroic natives attacked the barbaric invaders but lost in the dramatic battle. In revenge the invaders slaughtered the native peoples, it was pure genocide."

Blobber

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Going cripplingly off topic here but:
...
Not difficult to see who was more useful...

If I had to pick who was the most "useful" fighting off fascism in the European theatre in WII, then I would choose the USSR. In the Pacific theatre I would pick the Americans.

But again, the current state of societies has been achieved by sacrifices on all sides, not only Americans.

Blobber


[edit on 7-4-2005 by Blobber]