George Knapp Could Prove Lazar's Special Element 115 Exists. But Won't Do It.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

I don't see Bob as lying about any of this.

Perhaps open your eyes then and I suggest you listen to what he's said as well.

From his education, to the bad science and the stories of spaceships at Area 51. He's been proven to have lied about a number of things. And he's proven absolutely nothing about the existence of alien spaceships at S4. He's cashed in on licensing rights for model kits and movies, sold VHS videos and changed his story numerous times. Yet some people still shout about Bob not making money from or changing his story.

I have seen a flying saucer myself, up close and scary. IT moved like it had those kinds of abilities in physics not fully discerned by today's science. I personally know they exist. They have a propulsion method that is like what Bob describes.

You mean a propulsion system based on nonsense? Are you lying as well now?

We are talking about people who also reject the idea of soul and spirit being real.

Yes they have no time for spirits and our souls like yourself.

How about your constant defaming individuals? It's all you seem to do is defame and gate keeping here. Any opinion in opposition to yours and there you are.

All I did was give my opinion about Bob. George Knapp trusts his story as being truthful.

George has Decades of credibility. You have zero.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
I agree, I dont mind the little inconsistencies, the problem here is there are at least 2 ways this story could have been verified(the supposed 22 scientist he knows the names of or the element Knapp refuses to dig up).

Are you saying you think Jacques Vallee and/or Bigelow are lying about Lazar's element 115? Lazar already brought his "element 115" to Bigelow's lab when he was hired by Bigelow, there's no need to dig anything up.

I havent looked into the timing of the lab check and Knapps statements in the OP, but suffice to say, have the same level of faith in them as I do Lazar.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

we are talking about Bob and Knapp

Knapp was looking for a story and he bet his job on it and he ever says so in MANY docos


and Jacque never said he believed bob, talk about defaming someone


who are you again? havent seen you round these parts..'


look in to the actual claims of what Bob us saying aboput his '115' and you will figure out on your own that he is lying or had been mislead by the AF/DIA



115 does not exist in ANY stable form now or ever to be projected to exist.


giving the benefit of doubt to bob, He got duped

a reply to: penroc3

Video has been posted several times, but it explains the duping theory well. Start in around 2:28



In terms of UFO flight
The www.abovetopsecret.com...]Westall case I think is the best one for demonstating some kind of unconventional propulsion does exist. It is just wild speculation to say by what means though, perhaps gravity based.

Bassplayer likes to drop hints when hes around... like Lazar, he seems to think he has it figured out. Maybe he can pop in with some ideas.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: penroc3

Video has been posted several times, but it explains the duping theory well. Start in around 2:28

The idea of the government or intelligence community wanting to spread false information is plausible, in fact TTSA may very well be involved in such an operation with Tom DeLonge being the "useful idiot" who started an alleged UFO company without seeming to know much about UFOs (officially an entertainment company).

But Grant Cameron's explanation about Bob Lazar being a "useful idiot" doesn't make sense and has huge flaws.

The topic of this thread focuses on one of the major flaws with that explanation, which is the element 115 claim of Bobs that would prove the story. Cameron suggests maybe Lazar was shown some fake documents. I can't say if that happened or not. But he's talking about Bob at Area 51, and Bob says he went to S4, so right there Camerons idea starts to fall apart. Faking some documents may be easy but how do they Fake a non-existent S4 facility full of flying saucers, when there is no facility there?

Cameron says the idea was for Lazar to be shown these fake documents and stories about an alien etc but that doesn't explain why Bob would say he stole 500 pounds of element 115 from the facility, or why he said part of his protection was that he could detonate the element 115 with his particle accelerator and turn Las Vegas and half the state of Nevada into a smoking crater which sounds like a terrorist threat. (Knapp mentions that in the same video posted in the OP where he talks about digging up the 115).

Other parts of Cameron's video are just wrong, like when he says Lazar is a physicist but there's no proof of his degrees. When I was a freshman at university majoring in physics, I already knew enough physics to know Lazar's physics was wrong. Not only are his physics related degrees unverifiable but people who checked his education said Lazar didn't even take physics in high school. Cameron doesn't really explain the "missing degrees", as some people might try to do by claiming the impossible "government disappeared them" which wouldn't "disappear" all the yearbooks etc, so Lazar is just lying about the degrees. The fact that Lazar (and Huff) made and sold the "Lazar tape" video with a bunch of nonsense pseudoscience pretty much proving Lazar doesn't know physics doesn't fit into Cameron's explanation at all, so, the way he presents it, it seems like a really stupid idea that makes no sense at all and I can't understand why anybody who has investigated this to any degree would not realize it doesn't lead to the lie about Bob claiming he stole element 115.

Now if you wanted to make it into a more believable conspiracy theory, Bob would have to not be the "useful idiot" just repeating what he saw in faked documents, but he would have to be a complicit liar in the scheme to tell the lie he was asked to tell about stealing 500 pounds of 115 and to threaten to use that to turn Nevada into a smoking crater if he was hassled about it.

Question about Bob's 115 claim. He said it was stable and was stored in a lead container. Lead containers are used to provide shielding of unstable elements, so why would a stable element need a shielded container made of lead? That makes no sense. It's a rhetorical question since the whole 115 part of the story is obvious BS and doesn't fit into Cameron's scheme at all the way he explained it.

Tom Mahood's explanation of events makes a lot more sense than Cameron's explanation, though he could have some bits and pieces a little off, but it doesn't have the huge holes that Cameron's story has. For starters, Mahood is a real physicist, so he has no problem recognizing that Lazar isn't a physicist, which Grant Cameron can't seem to recognize.

In terms of UFO flight
The www.abovetopsecret.com...]Westall case I think is the best one for demonstating some kind of unconventional propulsion does exist. It is just wild speculation to say by what means though, perhaps gravity based.

No scientific evidence of anything really. This case on youtube was more impressive until we figured out what it was (some people figured it out back in 2012, but apparently almost none of the clueless people commenting on the video posted in 2020 know about that). We also figured out that much of what eyewitnesses say about UFOs is unreliable even when we have 30 witnesses telling the truth and describing what they saw to the best of their ability:


If something like the Westall incident happened today, probably 180 or more of those 200 witnesses would be taking pictures or video with their smartphones and uploading it to facebook where millions of people would download it. So unlike in the Westall story where a woman took pictures but her camera was alleged to be confiscated (was that ever confirmed by anybody?), the pictures would spread too fast today for something like that to happen, if the part about the camera confiscation really happened. Like with the UFO in Yukon, I'm sure the Westall witnesses saw something, but nothing in particular leads me to have more confidence in the accuracy of Westall witness descriptions than the Yukon witness descriptions, so you're making some huge scientifically unfounded leaps if all you have to go on are what a witness thinks they saw.

Now we even have a "tic tac" video where an allegedly trained expert pilot says the video shows it defying the laws of physics. The video doesn't show that, so I can give no greater confidence to even "expert" witnesses when they talk about "incredible acceleration" which in that documented tic-tac video case is merely an illusion.

There's a saying "pics or it didn't happen". The pilot who videoed a "tic-tac" UFO brought "pics" (video), which proves it didn't happen the way he says. It shows a UFO, but not one that defies physics as he claims, in fact the UFO doesn't seem to do anything a balloon can't do, in the video. That doesn't stop people from speculating on the alien propulsion systems it used.

Well that was a lame religious cop out of I ever seen one.

a reply to: fintalini

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I think something happened to Bob but I don't think it was what he thinks it was.

I am a believer in so called high strangeness and the whole UFO field. I have had personal sightings and rather unsettling 'poltergeist' type events in my house.

bob would never be able to steal any high level isotope. period.

If he made threats of essentially nuking Nevada he would have been really looked at by the secret service and the DOE to name a few.

The US has some out of this world tech but the question I have is, is it 100% human tech or is there a little something extra sprinkled in.

there is with out a doubt SOMETHING/SOMEONE that have air craft that bend the rules of what we though possible.

the one part of Bobs story that has stuck with me is that he was told one of the craft was found in an archeological dig. I am a subscribe to the theory that this isn't humans first time as a high tech civilization.

people always come back with "if there was an older lost civilization we would have artifacts."

i ask what would be left of NYC in 10,000 years or 100,000 years or even a 1,000,000? there would be nothing left other than large stone monuments and maybe some special vaults and that is if there isn't a world wide catastrophe like war or natural disasters. NYC will be under water at some point as well as a lot of the east and west coasts.

it will be interesting when we go back to the moon via NASA and commercial ventures, if there was a long lost human civilization there is a small chance they could have seen their impending doom and launched a time capsule to land in the shade of a deep crater on the moon.

it would be in deep freeze(colder than liquid nitrogen) and protected from micro meteorites and all the other things that might damage it.

I want bobs story to be true, but there are just so many holes in his story.

he was a pawn in someone's game of deception

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Bassplayer likes to drop hints when hes around... like Lazar, he seems to think he has it figured out. Maybe he can pop in with some ideas.

i don't think he "seems to think he has it figured out". my impression is that both Bass and Zaph have contact with similar, if not the same, circles, and know things.

things they can't talk about openly.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

but nothing in particular leads me to have more confidence in the accuracy of Westall witness descriptions than the Yukon witness descriptions, so you're making some huge scientifically unfounded leaps if all you have to go on are what a witness thinks they saw

Well the drawing from the thread was done by a guy( Victor Zakry) who stood right in front of it as it lifted up, in broad daylight. The sighting in general is confirmed by several witnesses in close proximity. Start in at 3:20 for some other descriptions . Victor at the 10 mark.

originally posted by: penroc3
bob would never be able to steal any high level isotope. period...

he was a pawn in someone's game of deception

My point was that if Lazar was a pawn, I don't see how that fits with him claiming to have stolen 500 pounds of element 115, so how do you make those two fit together into a coherent story? Saying he saw documents can fit with him being a pawn, but not saying he stole 500 pounds of element 115.

the one part of Bobs story that has stuck with me is that he was told one of the craft was found in an archeological dig. I am a subscribe to the theory that this isn't humans first time as a high tech civilization.

When did Bob first mention that? I heard him say that on the Joe Rogan show, but I don't remember him saying that in the 1990 time frame so I was wondering if that's another part of his story that has changed. He also didn't talk about the live alien they had captive on the Rogan show, but back in 1990-ish he did, and the "live alien" and "archeological dig artifact" don't necessarily go together.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Well the drawing from the thread was done by a guy( Victor Zakry) who stood right in front of it as it lifted up, in broad daylight. The sighting in general is confirmed by several witnesses in close proximity. Start in at 3:20 for some other descriptions . Victor at the 10 mark.

Those drawings are very unimpressive compared to this drawing of the 3-4 football fields long UFO the 30 Yukon witnesses had a close encounter with:



Also I lost respect of Bill Chalker's investigative abilities after reading his comment in the link you posted saying:

"I don’t think the evidence that witnesses like Victor share with us, should be diminished simply because they were described decades after the original event."

What a ridiculous statement. When I looked into JAL1628, even three weeks after the UFO sighting, the pilot was already mis-remembering details of what happened and when which could be established with the documented communications with air traffic controllers and radar records which were part of the investigation. There was no indication of bias or intention to deceive, but his memory of events had already begun to deteriorate after 3 weeks, and probably would have been more accurate if he was questioned the same day after he landed. His English wasn't that good and they didn't have anybody available who could translate at that time.

So of course decades old memories have deteriorated correspondingly more, and are subject to even more influences like reading or hearing what other people say they saw and even unconsciously weaving that into one's own recollection even if what you saw was slightly different.

Brian Dunning may not know what the UFO was, but unlike Bill Chalker, he recognizes that decades later testimony is not as reliable and therefore one should always look to contemporary sources written as close as possible to the time of the events. He did that and suspects there may have been 2 different things involved at 2 different times since he found 2 completely different descriptions in the source documents at those two times.

The Westall '66 UFO

as we almost always see with urban legends, the more time passes, the larger the story grows. 44 years after the event, retellings have expanded significantly compared to what was documented at the time, and this should always give us cause to approach modern revisionings with skepticism. New evidence coming to light is one thing, but with the Westall event, all we see are new anecdotes. A few adults who were students at the time, and UFO proponents who have interviewed former students, are now reporting greatly expanded versions of what happened. Does that make them wrong? Of course not. But if we want to determine the most likely account of what really happened, we go to the original sources. We go to the original documentation of what the witnesses reported 44 years ago, and we take the contradictory revisionings with a large grain of salt.

That makes a lot more sense to me and is more consistent with facts than Bill Ckalker's "decades old memories aren't diminished" absurdity.

So Dunning did look at what was reported at the time, and didn't find any evidence of advanced propulsion:

The story certainly has no holes in it that can only be filled with extraterrestrial aliens, and indeed no credible reason to suggest anything unusual. "I don't know" does not mean "I do know, and it was a spaceship", so for now, the Westall '66 UFO remains one of many question marks in the books, just not a very bold or especially intriguing one.

For the Yukon UFO on the other hand, what kind of man-made technology can make a 4-football-fields long mothership hover silently in a close encounter with 30+ witnesses? You can tell from the drawing it was no balloon.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

No need for fear Arby, your skeptism is safe. There are no high rez HD pictures or video. Pictures that were taken, confiscated. No doubt the whole thing was just a bunch of young children experimenting with drugs or mass halucination.

Dunning's explanation is your typical hard liner who just glossed over the case with some vague explanation so he could beat his chest and still proudly proclaim his skeptism ... it was such a nothing case the govt came in and implemented that sham coverup.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
My point was that if Lazar was a pawn, I don't see how that fits with him claiming to have stolen 500 pounds of element 115, so how do you make those two fit together into a coherent story? Saying he saw documents can fit with him being a pawn, but not saying he stole 500 pounds of element 115.

Can you or anybody.... do me the favor and link me to the original instance, interview, documents etc.. when the use of the weight numbered as “500” pounds of 115 was first introduced into the Bob Lazar story?

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

even if it were a gram he would have gotten busted

you know they can sense isotope signatures from like 45,0000ft in the air right? how do you think we keep an eye on NoKor and Iran?

if he has ANYTHING it was 'given' to him and is would be something like irradiated bismuth(very low levels).

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

even if it were a gram he would have gotten busted

Exactly!!! His knapsack, his lunch box, his briefcase, his bus seat, his plane seat, etc.. past the gate guard, past the bus driver, on Janis Airlines....should have been glowing for all the trips (which were few) to get “5-0-0” lbs of even Alien manure off the facility.

The more I read the more I feel like......where has these twists and turns of he said, she said (metaphorically) have I known of before. Or better yet, what it feels like to me.. Hmmmmm...I get it! It’s like a big fat game of...



If I were to gullibly believe it at all.... an amount of 5 micrograms (5 grams, and that’s a stretch) NOT 500 lbs would be believable to conceal, ONLY IF, exiting CAVITY CHECKS weren’t being done at the facility or at the Janis terminal.

500 lbs. ? Paaaalease.

I don't think I've ever heard or read that Bob stole 500 pounds of Element 115.

From most sources you will find he claimed the " the U.S. Government had 500 pounds of Element-115 in their possession."

But this is how fine details get lost amongst the chatter.

What is more interesting to me is why this story got re-circulated again a year or so ago. When in fact there is nothing at all to back up any of Bob's fantastic claims. While there is plenty of evidence to prove he has lied along with his bearded bodyguards.

originally posted by: mirageman

But this is how fine details get lost amongst the chatter.

Definitely agree with this statement MM.......

With all do respect MM .... this is your thread titled “George Knapp Could Prove Lazar’s Special Element 115 Exists. But Won’t Do It”

As I read the thread, it seems to me, and maybe just me.... I’m not seeing enough emphasis in what’s being said that focuses on the “why” of George Knapp won’t do it. Is there a definitive answer as to why?

Its good reading except for the sometimes, what seems to me, as tangenting info which raises more questions at the same time loosing focus on George Knapp, the central or focused character in the title of the thread. I’d like to hang on, but can the posters kindly focus on or get back to George Knapp?

I know what it is to tangent and also sidebar off a topic. I’m guilty of that myself.... but I also like to see when it’s corralled back to the title topic at hand and not tangents feeding tangents.

There’s enough to read about George Knapp online, books, mags etc. But your title opens a mystery I have not seen yet. Hence my interest...

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
If I were to gullibly believe it at all.... an amount of 5 micrograms (5 grams, and that’s a stretch) NOT 500 lbs would be believable to conceal, ONLY IF, exiting CAVITY CHECKS weren’t being done at the facility or at the Janis terminal.

500 lbs. ? Paaaalease.

OK, there was 500 pounds there and Lazar stole enough of that to blow up Las Vegas, according to Knapp...

originally posted by: mirageman
I don't think I've ever heard or read that Bob stole 500 pounds of Element 115.

From most sources you will find he claimed the " the U.S. Government had 500 pounds of Element-115 in their possession."

But this is how fine details get lost amongst the chatter.

I stand corrected, he said there was 500 pounds, but he didn't say exactly how much of that 500 pounds he stole which we hear about through George Knapp. The video in the OP is edited showing the first and past part of Knapp's statements below, but it cuts out what Knapp said in-between about Lazar possibly blowing up Las Vegas. This is the unedited video starting around the same subject as the OP video (time 1:09:10 in this video).

www.youtube.com...
George Knapp:
"Bob said the key to [antigravity] was this element 115. He had a piece if it. I saw it....

Bob at one point, when he thought he was going to die, had this piece of 115 in a lead casing, in a disk shaped casing, and he had it in front of a particle accelerator at his house.
He had the accelerator on, all he had to do was flip a button. If this stuff was real, as he described it, flipping that button would hit it with I don't know, protons or electrons, or whatever it was that would make it explode in annihilation that would leave a great big hole in Las Vegas.

He had that piece, I saw the experiment. What happened to it, that's a story for another time. It's in a spot now where nobody can get to it, but it's still there. Maybe one of these days after Bob's gone, I'll go dig it up."

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
... it was such a nothing case the govt came in and implemented that sham coverup.

Even if you don't believe what Brian Dunning speculates about the UFO, I do encourage you to consider his investigation advice to review the source materials. I can see how a "coverup" myth got started, but according to the 1966 audio, it was not covered up by the government, that part is the myth. The reality according to the science master is that it was the school headmaster who told the teachers and students to not talk about it. He said he would fire the teachers if they talked about it. But the "science master" teacher ignored that warning from the headmaster (he was upset with the headmaster) and he talked about it extensively. Nobody from the government tried to stop him and apparently he wasn't worried about losing his job because he had three degrees and could easily find another job, and he could probably win a wrongful termination lawsuit if the headmaster actually fired him.

You've been looking into UFOs long enough now to where you should know not to trust what documentaries say, many years after the fact. The stories grow, exaggerate, and sometimes outright lie. For example in the Rendlesham forest case, the documentaries lie and say the shield in the lighthouse made it impossible to see from Rendlesham forest. That's just wrong, there was a shield but it blocked the lighthouse from the nearby town, not the forest. But the documentary makers are not in it for truth, they want ratings or sales and are into it for entertainment value. So I think this audio explains how the "government coverup" myth got started, but nobody is stopping the science master from telling everything and he said it was all the headmaster's instructions, nothing to do with the government according to him.

He also said the UFO was the size of a tire which isn't as big as other stories, though again witness estimates of size, distance and speed of a UFO are generally unreliable without special circumstances happening that allow them to calibrate those somehow.

www.youtube.com...

"This video contains rare audio of James J. Kibel (commonly confused as James E. McDonald as it was later sent to him) discussing the infamous Westall UFO incident after meeting with the science teacher who witnessed the object. I believe this is the first copy to be posted on YouTube and is relatively rare.

Here are notes of interest below if you're having trouble understanding the audio:...

- Science master was in the same club as Mcdonalds brother-in-law, a bizarre coincidence. Because of this connection Mcdonald invited the Science teacher over and discussed in depth what he witnessed.

- Believes it wasn't the officials who squashed the sighting, it was the head master. He was so scared he refused to go into school yard even after it was back in the sky.
...
- When he joined the children he saw the UFO hovering just above power lines

- Science master described the object as a bright silver object, size of a tire with a 'bar/rod' into the air.

- At this point he noted a light plane moving towards it about 1000ft up, 2000ft from where he was standing"

Welp..... that’s it... I’ve lost interest. The thread just died for me.

Good luck on finding out why George Knapp won’t help to settle the 115 controversy. Perhaps the last post of this, the last volume of this trilogy of threads will have a believable answer if not a true fact as to the “why”.

I’ll check in then.... for now I’m off this thread.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

even if it were a gram he would have gotten busted

you know they can sense isotope signatures from like 45,0000ft in the air right? how do you think we keep an eye on NoKor and Iran?

if he has ANYTHING it was 'given' to him and is would be something like irradiated bismuth(very low levels).

What you say can be true but not for a stable isotope of 115 if it exists here. And if there is some here, it wasn't made here. It had to be brought here. "Isotopes" are not all radioactive. it just means the neutron count of an element.

Here on Earth it is only a theory that stable super heavy elements like 115 can exist, but the technology to produce them isn't available here. Adding neutrons (in the numbers required for experimenting with islands of stability) to elements doesn't exist here. The only other natural way is exactly what many scientists have said as a possibility is a super nova or super large star system where the stuff naturally exists just like you find gold here and other precious metals.

But most here are not really about that. They are here to be intellectually dishonest with their science degrees and be "better than Bob Lazar" by being mainstream and following the pack.

The kind of pack that trashes and defames.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Well let's petition Knapp and get him to go dig this stable element 115 with a TV camera crew and broadcast over the internet. Or admit it was a lie.

That's the whole point of the post.

Surely you want the truth don't you?