The Anti-Christian conspiracy

When I was in grade 3, I had a great old teacher who told us anyone who thought they were educated was a FOOL because there was always more to learn that could change what you believed to be true. Even at that young age I recognized this as wisdom, that claiming knowledge was foolishness and that is the same advice the Bible gives. Not judgement, advice...Get it?

Look, I was raised and tormented through the Catholic Church and it breaks my heart how many judgments against Christianity quote Catholic doctrine that isn't Biblical, but claims that I'm responding out of some hurt would be hottly disputed by pub regular bikers used to seeing me with a pool que in one hand and a beer in the other who have no idea that I'm a Christian. There is a big difference between responding to specific issues on a discussion board and public Bible thumping.

I'm sorry if the fact that my life experience and deeply concidered studies and discussions have led me to believe there is a conspiracy against Christianity and my sharing that opinion offends some but for me to say otherwise would make me a lier.

Damn, can't remember what else I was going to clarify but it doesn't matter as the hurt and insult many feel ( the, if your not a Christian you're a fool confussion) can't be salved by this simple womans words. Oh, that's right; Please understand this, awareness of who hates us, how much and why, doesn't mean we hate back. One of the beauties of this faith is understanding that God will not hold against us, what the false prophets and bad shepards have already harmed us with. Remember, just because the ugly red shoes I point out may fit you, it's the ugly red shoes I'm pointing out, NOT YOU.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
. Oh, that's right; Please understand this, awareness of who hates us, how much and why, doesn't mean we hate back.

Why do you take an attack against Christianity as a personal attack against you? Who here knows you well enough to hate you?

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Remember, just because the ugly red shoes I point out may fit you, it's the ugly red shoes I'm pointing out, NOT YOU.

You would do well to mind your own observation.

"Look, I was raised and tormented through the Catholic Church and it breaks my heart how many judgments against Christianity quote Catholic doctrine that isn't Biblical,"

Im with you on that Sue


At the same time the world is looking at the pope as the picture of christianity, they are taking the word "Fundimentalist" and turning it into something akin to terrorist.
A 'fundi' is simply someone who believes the basic teachings of the bible.

Christianity, for the most part is a good thing, the problem with it is, that is a control mechanism, to keep people from seeing past their blinders. Only look at what they want you to see, only speak, listen & learn what they want. Religion is something I choose not to follow, I am more spiritual than religious, & I chose that path.

Never follow blindly, never be a blindly stupid patriot, just following the flow, like following the lead Lemming off a cliff. Make your own decisions, using the brain matter between your ears, without a churches influence, without the government telling you what to think.

As for Me & My house, I will follow My own path, & no one elses. Follow, lead, or get out of My way.

[edit on 22-11-2005 by SpartanLeonidas]

Originally posted by jake1997
Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said to her, "Behold, you are pregnant and shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has listened to your affliction.
Gen 16:12 He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen."

Thanks jake! The full explanation and references helped too (but didn't want to get zinged for over-quoting). Much appreciate friend.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
It's also telling that so many Freemasons, who claim to be Christians, demand the right to endlessly "defend" their "fraternity" yet don't bother to counter the great deal of Anti-Christian posts.

This is interesting.

What do you think, "brothers"?

We still on this subject?

this is rather a slow non-existant conspiracy isn't it? exactly what is this supposed conspiracy against? because i still see churches and christians around. want an example of religious conspiracy...how about hitler wiping out a whole bunch of jews. you guys need to count yourselves lucky.

Saint ;-)

--

Hmm...as for hitler....didnt he also rack up about 6 million others in the camps? Collateral murders?

Anyway. Assuming you have a complete history of christianity , and the past part of the conspiracy, the next thing on the agenda is the falling away.
The churches must be destroyed from the inside out. The world will love a worldly church, and hate a christ centered church.

The happenings in the organised churches got the ball rolling. Your favorite TV 'preacher' ...perhaps trying to encourage you to donate by primising you wealth, health, and happiness via the 'Meal that Heals" is another part of it.

Where does it all lead? To cold , hard hearts, and a hatred for anything based on the bible. Maybe we will start to see some type of organized effort to remove anything related to the christian God from schools and public buildings. One day maybe stores will remove referrence to christmas and not let the salvation army set up out front (Target)
Maybe we can remove God from the POA in school
Heck...the military is not a democracy. Maybe one day someone will try to stop soldiers from praying to the christian God?

Hmm...Am i original or is that happening already?
Its certainly not comprehensive...but dont you at least see some it ?

Originally posted by jake1997
Maybe we will start to see some type of organized effort to remove anything related to the christian God from schools and public buildings.

One day maybe stores will remove referrence to christmas and not let the salvation army set up out front (Target)
Maybe we can remove God from the POA in school

I was starting to think us conspirators were losing to the ID pushers and faith based initiative seekers, marriage definition amendments (one man and one woman, sorry to all you folks in Utah and SF) and faith based wars. But, perhaps the cup is half full afterall!

Originally posted by jake1997
Heck...the military is not a democracy. Maybe one day someone will try to stop soldiers from praying to the christian God?

Sob sob sob. You live in the free-est time in recorded history regarding religion, and all you can do is point out areas where you are no longer allowed to force your religion on others via law and firepower, and you call it a conspiracy.

I would fight in every way possible to protect the rights of any person to worship, pray, sing, dance, etc. to the G-d of their choosing just as long as you don't make the whole world stop while you do it.

Religion is a personal choice and every personal choice should be yours and yours alone with no interference from any outside agent UNLESS and UNTIL it begins to infringe on the same rights for any other person.

You can wear a cross around your neck any time you want. You cannot put one on me at any time. OK, that part was easy. Now, here comes the hard part: what if you want to put a cross on a building that belongs to a group in which I am a member? Oops! Now, you are effectively putting a cross on my neck. No can do! So, that's when the cross-wearers all go nuts and claim persecution.

Personally, I think Christians tend to trivialize their own religion when they start slapping religious symbols on everything. T-shirts, bumperstickers, coffee mugs, baseball caps, etc. with "Jesus" on them! Hey! It's your right to do these things but I believe you dishonor your faith when you start to "market" it like that. (Warning! I'm going to say something Christians won't like at all.) You make your Jesus just look cheap and tawdry so, it's not my fault that the world doesn't show respect - don't blame me! You're the ones debasing and profaning your G-d. You want to lower Jesus to the level of Coca-Cola or some sports team? That's your choice. It's my choice how I percieve it and react to it.

Originally posted by Al Davison
Personally, I think Christians tend to trivialize their own religion when they start slapping religious symbols on everything. T-shirts, bumperstickers, coffee mugs, baseball caps, etc. with "Jesus" on them!

Spot on.

Not to mention, I have to laugh everytime I see a "Jesus fish" since I know it's actual origin (hint, it precedes Christianity and is related to the number of fish caught in John 21:11).

If I didn't live in the buckle of the Buybull belt, I'd probably put a magnet (what, damage my sweet ride with a sticker!??) of a circle and slash around the word "faith" on my car. But I know some religious bubba nutjob would run a key across the side. Yes, you Christians are so persecuted.

(just noticed you really did adopt that Russell quote for your sig )

[edit on 23-11-2005 by spamandham]

Originally posted by spamandham


I was starting to think us conspirators were losing to the ID pushers and faith based initiative seekers, marriage definition amendments (one man and one woman, sorry to all you folks in Utah and SF) and faith based wars. But, perhaps the cup is half full afterall!

ID is not a bible concept. It is part of the concpiracy to mislead people.
Think about it.
If Genesis doesnt happen the way the bible says, then the NT is a lie, based on a lie, and Christ is a fraud
The marriage thing is another attack on our society and the people in UT and SF should be the ones apologizing. The faith based war stuff belongs to the rc and islam

Sob sob sob. You live in the free-est time in recorded history regarding religion, and all you can do is point out areas where you are no longer allowed to force your religion on others via law and firepower, and you call it a conspiracy.

Yeah... its sure being forced on people. I saw a christian death squad last night that converted an old lady and her grand child at gun point.


You really dont have alot of knowledge of the bible and your points that you pick to debate are always based on an extreme point that Christ does preach (force down our throats for example). You should study more before trying setting yourself up like that.

Originally posted by jake1997
Saint ;-)

--

Hmm...as for hitler....didnt he also rack up about 6 million others in the camps? Collateral murders?

Anyway. Assuming you have a complete history of christianity , and the past part of the conspiracy, the next thing on the agenda is the falling away.
The churches must be destroyed from the inside out. The world will love a worldly church, and hate a christ centered church.

The happenings in the organised churches got the ball rolling. Your favorite TV 'preacher' ...perhaps trying to encourage you to donate by primising you wealth, health, and happiness via the 'Meal that Heals" is another part of it.

Where does it all lead? To cold , hard hearts, and a hatred for anything based on the bible. Maybe we will start to see some type of organized effort to remove anything related to the christian God from schools and public buildings. One day maybe stores will remove referrence to christmas and not let the salvation army set up out front (Target)
Maybe we can remove God from the POA in school
Heck...the military is not a democracy. Maybe one day someone will try to stop soldiers from praying to the christian God?

Hmm...Am i original or is that happening already?
Its certainly not comprehensive...but dont you at least see some it ?

seperate god from school. seperate god from state. seperate god from government. seperate god from army. but on your money it says 'in god we trust'. really? does everyone who holds an american bill really trust in god? i doubt it very much. but there it is...telling us we do. so maybe you lost schools, state, government etc... but you got all the money so quit your whinning.

Originally posted by jake1997
ID is not a bible concept. It is part of the concpiracy to mislead people.
Think about it.
If Genesis doesnt happen the way the bible says, then the NT is a lie,

Either that or it is allegorical and the Hovindites have lied to you that it is a literal account. Prior to the reformation, the creation story of Genesis was not considered a literal account, but an allegorical story ("A History of God" (1993), Karen Armstrong).

ID is a back door approach to try to wedge religion back into the schools. Whether you buy into that particular brand of Christianity or not doesn't change the fact that this is your "side" attempting to use public force to indoctrinate the children of others.

Originally posted by jake1997
The marriage thing is another attack on our society

No, it's merely an offense to your religious sensibilities. Two men married to eachother (or three men, or two woman a man a hermaphrodite and a cat...) only causes you psychological angst because of your religious beliefs. Civil society is based on respecting the rights of others, it is not based on who's sleeping with who.

Originally posted by jake1997
The faith based war stuff belongs to the rc and islam

...and to evangelical Christians such as George Bush.

Sob sob sob. You live in the free-est time in recorded history regarding religion, and all you can do is point out areas where you are no longer allowed to force your religion on others via law and firepower, and you call it a conspiracy.

Originally posted by jake1997
Yeah... its sure being forced on people. I saw a christian death squad last night that converted an old lady and her grand child at gun point.

References to god in the pledge, postings of the 10 commandements, etc. are in fact using the force of law and the resources of government to spread your religious delusions. The death squad stuff seems to be out of style lately, but take comfort in knowing that if these prominant Christians gain significant power, they'll return:

(credit to www.michiganatheists.org...)

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue:
“I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian Nation. We have a Biblical duty; we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. ”

Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority: “Just give me the Supreme Court.”

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition:
“I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know till election night.”

Pat Robertson, GOP presidential candidate, 1988:
“When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no more satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more abortion on demand, and no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not allow anyone to practice it. ”

Originally posted by jake1997
You really dont have alot of knowledge of the bible

ROTFLMFAO!

...this coming from someone who thinks Noah magically gathered up 50 million species from around the world and crammed them onto a boat? I feel so humbled.

Originally posted by jake1997
and your points that you pick to debate are always based on an extreme point that Christ does preach

What fun would it be to debate ordinary points? By the way, have you had the procedure Jesus recommends in Matthew done yet? What's that you say? That particular passage is figurative hyperbole and not literall?!!

According to both Jerome and Eusebius, Origen had taken this passage literally and castrated himself. But you, being so much more knowledgable than I on matters of Christianity, no doubt knew that already.

Of course there is no conspiracy against Christianity. People like Spamandham just like to repeatedly spread lies and false doctrine with a "Christian" lable stuck on them (no matter how often they're corrected) for fun....and umm, where are all those enlightened and educated, Christian prophesing Freemasons,with their wise words of why they choose to call themselves Christian? I know that your Supreme Being doesn't need any help but surely your "brothers in Christ" who are young or weak in the faith could do with some of your debating skills to help them stand against the flood of "outright lies" spread about Christianity?

Yeah...your right again sue

I should have left my ignore list intact when I came back here

Originally posted by suzy ryan
People like Spamandham just like to repeatedly spread lies and false doctrine with a "Christian" lable stuck on them

How easy it is to make nonspecific accusations. I have never attempted to lead anyone to believe I'm a Christian here, so I could hardly be spreading doctrine of any kind. If you made such a conclusion, it's only because you haven't been paying attention and didn't bother to ask. Just because I'm somewhat knowledgable about the Bible and Christian history doesn't imply I'm a Christian.

As for repeatedly spreading lies, I suggest you document that bit of libel Sue. Your credibility hangs in the balance. You are assumed to be a liar until then.

By the way, WWJD?

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I know that your Supreme Being doesn't need any help but surely your "brothers in Christ" who are young or weak in the faith could do with some of your debating skills to help them stand against the flood of "outright lies" spread about Christianity?

I'm not a Christian. I don't know where you got that idea. What you call "debating skills" is nothing more than choosing the stronger positions as the result of trial and error. If you envy the results, you are free to mimic them rather than continue simply assuming your position to be Truth™.

How pathetic.

Originally posted by jake1997
Yeah...your right again sue

I should have left my ignore list intact when I came back here

Yes, you should have. I won't make that mistake again either - jake earns a permanent ignore.

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by jake1997
Yeah...your right again sue

I should have left my ignore list intact when I came back here

Yes, you should have. I won't make that mistake again either - jake earns a permanent ignore.

Hehe. Nice. I really enjoy your posts spamandham. I am sorry so many people are closed off by their supposed faith. You definately seem like you know what you are talking about. Enough so to make me jealous. :-) I don't know near enough, but I do know that my faith, if I am allowed to call it that outside of the Christian faith, tells me something is amiss. Keep posting, I definately will keep reading and respond when I can.

As for the others, if your faith makes it impossible to talk to people in a civil manner, no need to say anything. If there is a conspiracy, it is the one of christianity itself that has been propagated for the last 2000 years.

I also have a question, which is a real question and not something to tick you off. Why did God change his mind? We have a blatant example of this by the fact there is an old testament and a new testament. And why do you choose to follow only certain things in the bible? And if you do selectivly follow things in the bible, how is the decision made as to what is rubbish and what is real?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Nothing was changed.
Part of it was fulfilled.