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The Anti-Christian conspiracy

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posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
...mocking vicious things said against Christianity but dare to join the thread to correct their lies


Have you considered the possibility they aren't lies? This is now the second time I've seen you make vague accusations of lying against others and failed to back it up.




posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham
Well, I guess since you're banned you won't be able to reply to this, but for those who might be following, 153 is "the number of the fish", and "the number of the fish" that were caught in the passage in question is 153. Considering the popularity of the Pythagoreans in first century Greece, the odds that this is coincidence is darn close to 0.

The 153 is a coded message for those who were initiates into the mystery.


Hm? I'm still here. Pray tell spamandham, what were secret coded Christians supposed to do with this magic number?



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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O.K. Spamandham, one of the number of lies that gets all to frequently repeated here is that Christians are "blindly lead".

This is despite it being made obvious that so many of the posters here, came to their faith well in maturity, after alot of different paths and a great deal of study.

Just because their study leads them to understand things differently to you and your ilk, you still denigrate their intelligence in an effort direct others away from concidering their views.

When scientists disagree, which they so often do, it's respected as a contest of ideas which leads to further understanding and discovery, yet when it comes to Christianity you declare the facts, 'all in' and on your side.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
Christians are "blindly lead".


If someone feels this way is probably about organized religion in general, not just Christianity.


Originally posted by suzy ryan
declare the facts, 'all in' and on your side.


There is only one truth, the facts are there to be interpreted. I encourage you to present the evidence that supports what your arguing instead of letting someone "declare the facts. If a debate follows, and someone doesn;t agre with you, its not a conspiracy.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Hm? I'm still here. Pray tell spamandham, what were secret coded Christians supposed to do with this magic number?


The number itself is not magic. This is not numerology. It's a clue that there's more to the story than meets the eye. 153 is not a coicidence. The number is recorded because it is significant, not simply because someone counted the number of fish and that's what it was.

153 is the link between Jesus and the Pythagoreans/Platonists, who were common in that day. Pythagoreanism was a form of what we would call astrology - which brings us right back to the dawning of the age of Pisces around the turn of the first century.

I know you won't accept this, but 153 is a round about message that the Christ is a mystical astronomical being, and not a fleshy earthly human. It is the key to understanding that the Jesus is allegorical. This is not the only clue. As much as the Romans attempted to linearize and historicize Christianity for their own purposes, they inadvertently left clues behind.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan
O.K. Spamandham, one of the number of lies that gets all to frequently repeated here is that Christians are "blindly lead".


That's a general matter of opinion. As such, it is not a lie, but simply a perspective.

The word "faith" implies belief in the unseen based on hope rather than observation. Do you disagree? Take it up with Paul.

If you agree that this is faith, and if you agree in justification by faith, then you should happily reply, "yes spam, I embrace belief based on hope as handed down to me by others. I trust them implicitly because that is my hope and thus salvation."

Anyone who appeals to such a concept is blindly led by definition. Considering how wonderful Christians claim faith is, you should take comfort in knowing you are blindly led, rather than taking offense. After all, it's only if both you and your leaders are blind that you have a problem (blind leading the blind, not sighted leading the blind). But you have the inerrant Bible, and are thus not led by the blind, ...right?



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
The number itself is not magic. This is not numerology. It's a clue that there's more to the story than meets the eye. 153 is not a coicidence. The number is recorded because it is significant, not simply because someone counted the number of fish and that's what it was.


Not convinced. If there were other "clues", relationships, relevancies, etc. then we may be on to something. If this is a piece of the puzzle, it's a very small one and not very functional at that.


Originally posted by spamandham
153 is the link between Jesus and the Pythagoreans/Platonists, who were common in that day. Pythagoreanism was a form of what we would call astrology - which brings us right back to the dawning of the age of Pisces around the turn of the first century.

I know you won't accept this, but 153 is a round about message that the Christ is a mystical astronomical being, and not a fleshy earthly human. It is the key to understanding that the Jesus is allegorical. This is not the only clue. As much as the Romans attempted to linearize and historicize Christianity for their own purposes, they inadvertently left clues behind.


Hey! An explanation! I appreciate that, though don't know why you insist on "baiting" those looking for information. (Need ATS points? You can have mine, just tell me where you're coming up with these theories). Nearly broke my teeth on that hook.

I'm not going to say who, but there is a group of people who believe the Bible is "just allegory". If that's the case, it would stand to reason that their "eternal life" would also be "allegorical". I'm surprised it's not a disquieting thought for them.

What about the other number in the Pythagorian ratio? Where is that hidden? What's the relevance to that in the chapter? How are students of the Word, supposed to recognize, pull out and use this number?

I'll propose a counter-theory. The Hebrew people have historically used numbers, lineage, and cultural detail to describe to the best of their ability the accounts that actually happened because they themselves being a skeptical folk, recognize they're gonna have to do a lot of explaining to have anyone accept what they say with any validity. It's true here on ATS as well. When someone says "I saw a UFO!", we pummel them for detail. If the detail is lacking, guess what? If the detail is there and is verifiable, then it should be taken under serious consideration, no? You're a fellow skeptic, I'm sure you can see this as well, yes?



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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That's it A.W. Pare away all the subject, issue and detail and you are left with a one line stick to keep beating Christians with. Credit to you though, at least you didn't add barbs and spikes for the bloodier effect so many prefer.


My question to all those that espouse the "Christian Bashing" doctrine is this. Is there now some sort of centralization(besides GOD and Christ) within certain elements of Christianity that email or fax what the monthly message is going to be these days?

It seems to this man that I hear the same from one or all at about approximately the same time. This is whether it involves the "poor Christian me", the Armageddon(Asians will be involved), etc.

The only thing I can come to a conclusion on is that these days there must be some sort of centralization that espouses these views and passes on to the various churches?

If this is so I do question one's loyalty to GOD vs. man.

Yes, the MADMAN is back!!



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Good to see you back brother!


I guess the banning incident was yet another possible indicator that there is an Anti-Christian Conspiracy. I'd like to call into question who was banned during that period.

I've talked many pages back of a very real and actual conspiracy that went unaddressed, now we're observing the effects and making determination as to the ties that bind.

Now, tell us again the greatness of God madman? (omitting the blanket-slamming of churches)


Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 29-11-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Just for the record, you can check the "accidental banning" incident in the Board Business thread. If I'm reading it correctly, it was an accident by Thomas Crowne - certainly not somebody who would single out Christian voices to silence. And, further, some of the strongest voices whom one might consider to be "anti-Christian" were responsible for making sure that Saint and JungleJake and madman and others got reinstated while they were fixing the problem.

We don't have to agree on everything but we do not want to see you guys and gals disappear! I would bet that you all would do the same. It's a community and we all have to look out for each other.


Edited to add: I'm happy to have you all back!

[edit on 29-11-2005 by Al Davison]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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Sorry to be a thorn to get answers, but one does have to wonder of the list of names I'd heard of those who got booted, how they accidently got selected. If it's an accident, then cool.
If I ever get booted, I'd like it to be intentional and with explanation


Just to let you know though, the way I'd heard it from a reliable source was someone was accidently given moderator priviledges, so in that case it would've been targeted. I'll shut up about it, I'm sure the moderators don't want this thread to go there (though it IS entirely relevant I think).

[edit on 29-11-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

That's it A.W. Pare away all the subject, issue and detail and you are left with a one line stick to keep beating Christians with. Credit to you though, at least you didn't add barbs and spikes for the bloodier effect so many prefer.


My question to all those that espouse the "Christian Bashing" doctrine is this. Is there now some sort of centralization(besides GOD and Christ) within certain elements of Christianity that email or fax what the monthly message is going to be these days?

It seems to this man that I hear the same from one or all at about approximately the same time. This is whether it involves the "poor Christian me", the Armageddon(Asians will be involved), etc.

The only thing I can come to a conclusion on is that these days there must be some sort of centralization that espouses these views and passes on to the various churches?

If this is so I do question one's loyalty to GOD vs. man.

Yes, the MADMAN is back!!


Well as one who doesn't belong to a "church" as such, and haven't since decades ago, leaving the Catholic church I was born into, who only responds to themes posted on ATS, I'd say the 'centralization' comes from the Anti-Christians choosing which pillar of Christianity is going to be ram raided next.

Infact, untill I hit ATS I wasn't aware of just how much Anti-Christian "preaching" was going on in the general public. Untill coming here, the sort of things I see posted I had only come across from networks of admitted satanists, witches, lucifarians etc.

Far from, "poor ol' Christian me", with me it's, "poor ol' world, being sucked in by 'evil' propaganda". I just wish the world knew the peace of understanding ALL get resurrected to a chance of not suffering the second, permanant death.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 04:47 PM
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I guess the banning incident was yet another possible indicator that there is an Anti-Christian Conspiracy. I'd like to call into question who was banned during that period.


Let me say that my banning was a result of a knee jerk reaction by myself that I do not believe involved what happened with others. The moderator that banned me and I both agreed that perhaps we could have handled the situation better. However, there was trouble getting me back on the board after our situation was straightened out. No conspiracy was involved that I am aware of.




Now, tell us again the greatness of God madman? (omitting the blanket-slamming of churches)


The greatness of GOD!!! Once man awakens from what I consider a "spiritual sleep" and realizes how intertwined our relationship is with any and everything our physical existence will be much better off.

I do not try to "blanket slam" churches. However, I do try to point out to a certain segment of "Christianity" that much of what is said and done is entirely off base and misses the point of Christ's teachings.

I also get upset when people who "know" as I do are described as secular, and without "faith" that those who throw those accusations do so with an agenda that does not reflect Christ's teachings. I read more and more of this. I see it on the TV. I hear it from their pulpits. I hear of the "truth", and yet they don't mention Christ. However, I do believe our voices are slowly being heard. That much of what we say is right, and portions of the population are slowly "getting it".

In summation let me say that one can't wear blinders, and draw a straight line from Point A to Point B. In between those points are many twists and turns that effect all of this illusion we call "life". These twists and turns must be considered to truly understand GOD, and what GOD truly means for us to be.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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Oh yes Madman., we have a "Christian" radio station here that boils my blood more than all the "sell sex to the kids" "youth" radio stations. It's all, "if you don't give us money now so WE can SAVE the world", stuff that ignors Christs actual message of being resurrected to be a part of God's Kingdom that will be brought from 'heaven' to earth.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Not convinced. If there were other "clues", relationships, relevancies, etc. then we may be on to something.


There are many, and you and I have already discussed some of them. Some are more subtle, such as the number of the fish caught in this story, or the number of disciples, or the 12 tribes, or 7 days of the week, or 144,000, or the obvious astrological imagery of Revelation, but others are spelled out explicitly, such as the words of Paul when he talks about the Christ within or the sacrifice that happened before creation. You read what you have been taught to read.


Originally posted by saint4God
If this is a piece of the puzzle, it's a very small one and not very functional at that.


Come on, who counts the number of fish in a large haul? What would be the purpose of counting them? The number 153 is significant. What alternative explanation do you offer? Do you also believe it's just "coincidence" that the number 12 is found repeatedly throughout the Bible as well?


Originally posted by saint4God
Hey! An explanation! I appreciate that, though don't know why you insist on "baiting" those looking for information. (Need ATS points? You can have mine, just tell me where you're coming up with these theories).


What bait? I spelled it out explicitly and this isn't the first time. If you were even the least bit skeptical you would have looked into yourself by now. Why do you expect me to spoonfeed you?


Originally posted by saint4God
I'm not going to say who, but there is a group of people who believe the Bible is "just allegory". If that's the case, it would stand to reason that their "eternal life" would also be "allegorical". I'm surprised it's not a disquieting thought for them.


Of course, if they don't believe in an afterlife like you do, then the fact that it doesn't live up to your expectation would hardly be disquieting. After all, I don't believe in an afterlife of any kind, and I'm not disheartened to discuss this.


Originally posted by saint4God
What about the other number in the Pythagorian ratio? Where is that hidden?


Now we are starting to get into numerology as to why the Pythagoreans found 153 mystically significant, but not so much 265 (265:153 is the mystical ratio of the Vesica Pisces). 153 = 1+2+...+17. 265 was not assigned mystical significance, so there is no reason to expect to find it.


Originally posted by saint4God
I'll propose a counter-theory. The Hebrew people have historically used numbers, lineage, and cultural detail to describe to the best of their ability the accounts that actually happened...


There is no basis for this claim other than you wish it were true. There is Biblical, historical, and archeaological bases for mystical polytheism within ancient Judaism, and within the Essene sects that eventually became Christianity.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
The greatness of GOD!!! Once man awakens from what I consider a "spiritual sleep" and realizes how intertwined our relationship is with any and everything our physical existence will be much better off.





Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I do not try to "blanket slam" churches. However, I do try to point out to a certain segment of "Christianity" that much of what is said and done is entirely off base and misses the point of Christ's teachings.

I also get upset when people who "know" as I do are described as secular, and without "faith" that those who throw those accusations do so with an agenda that does not reflect Christ's teachings. I read more and more of this. I see it on the TV. I hear it from their pulpits. I hear of the "truth", and yet they don't mention Christ. However, I do believe our voices are slowly being heard. That much of what we say is right, and portions of the population are slowly "getting it".

In summation let me say that one can't wear blinders, and draw a straight line from Point A to Point B. In between those points are many twists and turns that effect all of this illusion we call "life". These twists and turns must be considered to truly understand GOD, and what GOD truly means for us to be.


I'm good for that. This sounds very fair I think. Thanks.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
There are many, and you and I have already discussed some of them. Some are more subtle, such as the number of the fish caught in this story, or the number of disciples, or the 12 tribes, or 7 days of the week, or 144,000, or the obvious astrological imagery of Revelation, but others are spelled out explicitly, such as the words of Paul when he talks about the Christ within or the sacrifice that happened before creation. You read what you have been taught to read.


What about having 5 fingers on each hand and foot? What about 2 eyes? What about 1 God? Why doesn't the bible mention 365.25 for number of days in the year somewhere? What about 9 planets in the solar system, surely that's important enough to be somewhere in the Bible? How do the 10 commandments relate to astrology? Shouldn't the 60 degrees in an equilateral triangle be mentioned somewhere in there too? Peleg lived 209 years, how do we use that number in math?


Originally posted by spamandham
Come on, who counts the number of fish in a large haul? What would be the purpose of counting them? The number 153 is significant. What alternative explanation do you offer?


Here's a thought:
"We got a lot of fish, but even more people to feed!"
"Well, how many fish do we have?"
"1...2...3...etc...153"
"Hm, that'll have to do. Let's get cookin!"

Anyone who has ever managed a restaurant...or even a large family should recognize this example.


Originally posted by spamandham
Do you also believe it's just "coincidence" that the number 12 is found repeatedly throughout the Bible as well?


Nope, the explanation is in the Book though, not in the number of dots in the night sky.


Originally posted by spamandham
What bait? I spelled it out explicitly and this isn't the first time. If you were even the least bit skeptical you would have looked into yourself by now. Why do you expect me to spoonfeed you?


That's totally unfair sir, I've had to "spoonfeed" you on every point I've brought up (when the Book is available in soft cover and hard-back). I ask for what's ticking inside your head and this is your response?


Originally posted by spamandham
Of course, if they don't believe in an afterlife like you do, then the fact that it doesn't live up to your expectation would hardly be disquieting. After all, I don't believe in an afterlife of any kind, and I'm not disheartened to discuss this.


Then why "waste your time"? You know all Christians want to talk about is how awesome and good God is, that he gives us the option to come to Him for the gift of eternal life. None of this discussion should matter to you if you believe there is no afterlife.


Originally posted by spamandham
Now we are starting to get into numerology as to why the Pythagoreans found 153 mystically significant, but not so much 265 (265:153 is the mystical ratio of the Vesica Pisces). 153 = 1+2+...+17. 265 was not assigned mystical significance, so there is no reason to expect to find it.


You know what they call half a ratio in mathmatics? A problem. The Bible isn't a math problem book, it's a life answer book.


Originally posted by spamandham
There is no basis for this claim other than you wish it were true.


What I wish to be true is irrelevant. The Bible is "chock full" of things I wish weren't true, but they are.

As far as basis for claim, count the number of times the Hebrew people asked whoever (Moses, Jesus, Paul) to explain exactly what they mean and provide detail. Count the number of times the people in that Book were challenged in their beliefs and what they think. ATS isn't a miracle of skepticism and pales in comparison to the gospel.


Originally posted by spamandham
There is Biblical, historical, and archeaological bases for mystical polytheism within ancient Judaism,


So? In the same Biblical text is the emphasis, and re-emphasis that it is wrong. Why do you think that is?


Originally posted by spamandham
and within the Essene sects that eventually became Christianity.


Here we go with the "dangling bait" again. A claim without supporting evidence, though there is a thread on this one already where it was addressed.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Well as one who doesn't belong to a "church" as such, and haven't since decades ago, leaving the Catholic church I was born into, who only responds to themes posted on ATS, I'd say the 'centralization' comes from the Anti-Christians choosing which pillar of Christianity is going to be ram raided next.


I have to heartedly disagree. It now appears to me that somewhere on the Evangelical side of Christianity there is now somewhere espousing the "message of the month" or whatever.

"Anti-Christians" choosing which pillar to ram next is a prime example of what I speak. I being a very spiritual fellow am starting to become a little nauseous at this talk. Could one pray tell who these "Anti Christians" are and where I might meet one?



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Could one pray tell who these "Anti Christians" are and where I might meet one?


I know of at least one here on ATS who as stated such but speaking "in person"...

I can tell you where to meet a whole group of them. I can tell you the location of three groups in different towns/cities...but I seriously doubt you'd like to meet one.

This was from page 36. It was a beast to find it, but here it is:


Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by RANT
Thanks for your response saint4God, but did you have evidence of a conspiracy against Christianity to flesh out for me or not?

I can wait.


I think this is a question for the thread originator. I'll just speak to what I know.

I know for a fact there is a group of people (much larger than typically reported) who conspire against Christianity. They hold information secretly and are determined to destroy all that Christianity stands for. Their influence is under-rated by anyone not exposed and downplayed when discussed with a group member.

Here is an example of their communication:


And yes, I have a name and location of the friend who followed one of the cults, though it would be disrespectful of his privacy to share.


[edit on 30-11-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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Madman, you can find alot of people who work at twisting to death, the Christian message, in many churches that call themselves "Christian" as well as many groups who follow God's opposer, by the many names he goes by.

I'll state again, that it is only on ATS that I may come across as 'evangelical' due to there being many discussions on faith, something there is very little of in my day to day life but in the real world I let my life be my message.

No horror or argument has turned me from my faith and my faith has sustained me through challanges that would literally kill many. Upset a bunch of corrupt police by refuseing to deal their drugs and pimp out your children, then speak out about their practices and you will find out just how many actively evil, Anti-Christians there are out there. You'll also get an idea of how powerfull the Christian faith is, to bring you back to a life of peace and security.

Also, I only mention these experiences in my life when the topic comes up and people try to deny how far, deep and wide the problem of the child sex industry and the active evil behind it, is.

I'm sorry if I nauseate you by sharing aspects of my old, full and broadly lived life but my input to other threads will show I have more to share than my faith and awareness of the assult against it. This topic however is dear to me and rather than 'preach at' people in the real world, silly when you understand that only God can call people to hear Him, I appreciate the chance to discuss faith with others already doing so.



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