The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Would someone please comment on my previous posting regarding Waco like events, (type or style if you prefer as I understand the exact wording has become a huge subject here). Please inform me about the monthly Waco like events that are getting worse as I seem to have missed them somehow in the news. I get my news from a very wide variety of sources and tend to avoid network TV as it is mostly infotainment and not news, and generally has a significant political slant. Pap for the masses. Please comment directly to the subject of my previous post and not simply state that unrelated tazings = worse than Waco events, that's just being squeaky.

In addition, PLEASE, lets put an end to the endless quoting of previous postings. If you are going to quote someone, then make it brief, and always make sure you include WHO you are quoting. This thread is overflowing with excessive quoting and often, as in the case with Xphiles above, the quoting is improper, as it doesn't point to who is being quoted.
Here is what Skeptic Overlord has to say about the subject of quoting, in case you missed it in his recent U2U: Excessive quoting

If TJW did indeed quote someone, but inside the quote box, actually changed the wording, then that is deliberate deception and since it was in a quote box, it amounts to fraud. I hope no one is doing this as it just turns this thread into nonsense. When you quote do not add or change anything. You can make your comments outside the quote box.

It would be nice, if we could also stick to the topic which is John Titors claims and their veracity, or how they are reflected in the world we live in. We could spend all our time talking about each other, but does that truly matter all that much?

Sorry about the rant but has anyone else noticed that this thread contains more nitpicking about other members, than content about the thread topic? (Yeah, and I admit guilt by posting my tally above. I was actually pointing to how much those two, and others in here, love to argue about each other rather than the topic, but I guess it backfired and only spurned more bickering.)

OK Game on.... Bring on the worsening Waco events.

Originally posted by Terapin
The LHC is a particle accelerator and has no facility for the storage of a microsingularity. An unconfined micro singularity would evaporate in less than 10^27 seconds, due to hawking radiation. There is currently no known method of containing a microsingularity at the LHC based on the equipment installed. These statements are facts based on current data, not assumptions.

If you think about it, a microsingularity produced by a Z-pinch is more or less going to be left hanging in a void after creation with nothing to prevent its rapid decay by Hawking radiation.... But a microsingularity produced in the LHC.... is almost certain to have a charge and likely some relativistic velocity to it.

Having a charge... it ought to be controllable by the magnets of the LHC and having a relativistic velocity could dramatically extend the decay time, allowing for the 'cooling' and 'cleaning' needed to stabilize it. I envision that microsingularities could be produced and kept circulating in the LHC ring until they were fully stabilized, kept charged and then slowly brought to a halt and captured in a magnetic bottle.

The two ports on top of Titor's TT device would be where they would then be transferred to the twin magnetic bottles of the TT device. Physicists will gradually approach capturing and cleaning these subatomic heavy sweeties over probably many many years of trial and error and experimental successive approximation.

Gravity Distortion Unit Experimental Development Sequence (months or years for each one)

1. Create little sweetie, but goes poof
2. Create little sweetie with more charge and speed, lasts longer
3. Create little sweetie with least amount of baggage that causes her to go poof
4. Create little sweetie so she sustains herself and does not go poof
5. Create little sweetie with as high spin and charge as possible
6. While flying around and around at high speed little sweetie cools off
7. Help little sweetie shower off any particles clinging to her micro-gravity field
8. Help little sweetie get back up to top spin speed shape
9. Slow the round the rosy travel speed down to zero for little sweetie
10. Analyze little sweetie's micro-gravitational field
11. Put little sweetie in a suspended magnetic field containment housing with some decent heat sinks
12. Now have some fun and start shooting little guy electron darts at little sweetie's ergosphere, to see how she behaves (what makes little sweetie mad? How does little sweetie dance when the little guys come knocking?:puz
13. Find out how little sweetie's micro-gravity field changes when she is spinning at different speeds, if at all
14. Placing atomic clocks in little sweetie's microgravity field, measure any temporal relativistic effects
15. Shoot little sweetie's with electrons in different speeds and ratios creating odd gravitational distortions
16. Shoot electrons at little sweetie until she in her magnetic dress suddenly disappears, where did she go?
17. Noting little sweetie seems to have disappeared, outfit the dress with a transponder
18. Note little sweetie seems to be disappearing and appearing some distance away in space
19. Figure out how to measure local Earth environment gravitational fields with high degree of accuracy
20. Study how to keep little sweetie localized to the local gravitational environment, inventing variable gravity locking system, so keep little sweetie close to a given reference signature
21. Put little sweetie in proximity to another little sweetie to see how the micro-gravity fields interact
22. Find out how little sweetie's micro-gravity field changes and creates different time shells of positive, neutral and negative time-like curves
23. Discover that little sweetie can be fed lots of electrons so her gravity field expands and strengthen, but in a directed in a way that stay with the reference gravitational signature with least VGL variation or deviance compared to 100%
24. Perfect an ultra high speed quantum computer system required to keep up with external gravitational measurements required to keep little sweetie sticking nearest to the last referenced local gravitational signature.
25. Start sending objects through time using little sweetie
26. Discover that little sweetie is maybe not just time travelling but worldline travelling
27. Discover that the more deviation from nearest reference gravity signature that sweetie makes is caused by insufficiently accurate atomic clocks and also not enough of them in use
28. Make an even faster computer to track gravity field changes with multiple clocks
29. Notice the less the environmental Earth gravity deviation is permitted to vary, the more likely little sweetie reappears, and the more likely she reappears in the exact same geo-location she started from
30. Several more steps relating to incorporating little sweeties into a practical device that can be moved by two people
31. Slowly, carefully, in a military setting, start sending people through time using little sweeties
32. And so forth...

That puts us at least at 2020 or further down the line, don't ya think?? LHC will be the place where little sweeties are not discovered, but harnessed...

I guess you don't understand how the Large Hadron collider, or LHC, works. No big deal, but it is easy to make leaps of logic, when you are using imagination rather than science.

The LHC uses superconducting magnets to "Pull" a sub atomic particle, such as an electron. The electron is initially fired from a canon, into the LHC. It is then speeded up to super high velocities, and smashed into a detector plate. The rate of impact is on the order of millions per second, so it is not just one electron traveling at a time, it is a whole bus load. There is no method of pulling it a little bit less so that a single electron comes to a stop, as, unless it is being pulled, it will combine with the elements. If a microsingularity is ever created in the LHC it would be at the moment of impact, and not while traveling the magnetic "tube." If one is ever created, it would evaporate at the moment of detection. Think Ice cube on the sun. Since there is no method of containment at the detector plate, and no method of preventing a microsingularity of evaporating into hawking radiation, then how do you propose keeping one longer than micro seconds in the LHC facility? Magnetic bottles are cool ideas, but there isn't one that is strong enough to prevent microsingluarity evaporation. Even the superconducting magnets installed at the LHC would be useless.

You mention a microsingularity "disappearing." They don't disappear, they evaporate. You mentioned affixing a transponder. Since a microsingularity would be atomic in size, what material do you propose making a transponder out of, that would be smaller than an atom and able to withstand a microsingularity? I could go on and on, but perhaps it would be better to converse about this, when you have done a little more research on the nature of sub atomic physics, and the LHC. It is quite fascinating material, but little understood by many. Here is a good link to get you started CERN, Ask an Expert

I was hoping that you might respond to my earlier question regarding the worsening monthly Waco events. Perhaps someone else will read my post and respond with clarity.

I guess you want to provoke a response from me lol...
Was it your turn to bicker?

If you read my post! it's pretty obvious who I'm quoting, this thread is not that hard to follow. The only improper thing I see is you spouting off without reading the thread.

And you know I'm talking to YOU..... should I include your name?


Now for related tazings....

John Titor
I’m not aware of any “mind control” devices being used on you now. However, there are
a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.
Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal
weapons. They usually start out with, “In the future, the army and police will fight its
enemies with new weapons systems…” When they use the word “enemy”, they’re talking
about YOU! You don’t really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas
with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?

From the above John Titor's quote, you can see how Tazers relate. Right? You are the enemy.....
Tazers are “non lethal” weapons.

Now for the Waco type events..... R E A D the thread, you will then find your answer.

Oh! I never quote excessively.... but you would know that if you read...

[edit on 7-4-2007 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by Glyph_D
ill present an example; its a run in i had with TJW. the context being civilization(civilized) and its comparison to previous centuries. it is vaguely tied to the titor case, but the point is to illustrate the type of tactic TJW utilizes.

myself

TJW
Civilized
- Having a highly developed society and culture.
- Having a high state of culture and development both social and technological
- Having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.

i agree but with minor edits>

Civilized
- Having a developed society and culture.
- Having a state of culture and development both social and technological
- Having a humane culture, society, etc.

it does not take a highly or advanced anything to warrant being classed civilized.

you should be able to tell what kind of argument TJW is trying to support. [if not ill outline] he suggests that we are superior to previous centuries in terms of civility. i however support the perspective that we are indeed very similar with past centuries.

You're f'in kidding right?
I copied and pasted from the DICTIONARY buddy.

i directly addressed his manipulation, and apon that, he promptly dropped the argument.

BS
WTF are you talking about!? lol
We have advanced in EVERY SINGLE area, I'm still waiting for you to tell me how we're not more civilized (by the DICTIONARY'S definition, not yours. Your definition doesn't matter to the rest of the world).

as can be seen this is hardly worth the effort of quoting(am i right). but this is the nature of TJW twists

What exactly did I twist??
I said we are more civilized, and I posted the dictionary's definition of civilized.
No twists at all, it's very straight forward. By trying to throw YOUR definition in there, it's actually YOU who is twisting the argument!!!

**

X -

I didn't think you would answer though I foolishly hoped you would.....


as far as this:

From the above John Titor's quote, you can see how Tazers relate. Right? You are the enemy.....
Tazers are “non lethal” weapons.

Since you all like to be picky with words, look at his quote again.
He says new weapons systems would be developed.
1. Tasers are not new
2. Tasers are not a new weapons system.
(those new microwave weapons would be considered a new weapons system)

Tasers have been around long before Titor. If he meant tasers then he simply would have said tasers.

Far as the Waco type events, I'll make it easy for you Titorites again...
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39

All you have to do is list the events. That's all. Plain and simple, no twists no turns, just list. You don't even have to explain anything. Just list.

Actually XPhiles, I have read the thread and I never said that you quoted excessively. I merely pointed out that proper quoting follows certain forms and since yours was most recent, I pointed out this common error only as an example.

As for my request for Waco events, again, I have read the thread and have seen a significant lack of solid evidence in this area. I made a specific request, and indicated why random, unrelated, Tazer incidents did not fit the pattern. Thus far, my question has been avoided. Having seen civil unrest in a few countries and continents, I know the difference between, overly harsh police behavior, and Waco like events that progressively get worse. I have seen Red Beret military troops make liberal use of clubs to subdue a single individual civilian who was not resisting. I have seen, and been the victim of, tear gassing by the military on nonviolent civilians. These are serious events that I would consider applicable to Titors story, depending on the situation at the time, if they happened in the US, and occurred in the proper time frame. As they were overseas, or happened prior to Titors appearance, they do not apply.

TJW, since your quote was directly from a dictionary, then it is others who wish to change the data. Clearly, no fraud on your part.

Terapin:
Actually XPhiles, I have read the thread and I never said that you quoted excessively.

From my perspective, I see a link you posted with Excessive quoting And you mentioned XPhiles... so.....

Terapin:
As for my request for Waco events, again, I have read the thread and have seen a significant lack of solid evidence in this area.

I guess you didn't understand or read about the media blackouts that has since been addressed? If you read, it would suggests new media strategy since WACO. I have already made statements on Waco type event's... "That's That" I was just pointing you in that direction. I could careless if you agree or not.

BTW...
What is your definition of Waco?
Do you expect every Waco type event to be the same?

Terapin:
I made a specific request, and indicated why random, unrelated, Tazer incidents did not fit the pattern. Thus far, my question has been avoided.

Why do you not see Tazers as part of the overall picture?
As I stated my position above:

Tazers are “non lethal” weapons. and I will add this for TJW... TASER's have evolved over the years, take your pick...

TASER X26
The most powerful less-lethals available are now 60% smaller.

TASER M26
The flagship ADVANCED TASER M26 is field proven in over 2,700 agencies.

X26C CITIZEN'S DEFENSE SYSTEM

They are still in development and are quite lethal.

It's just a small portion of the subject, nothing wrong with adding taser's to it.

look you may have copy and pasted what you found. but do you argue my statement is inaccurate????

heres more deffs for civilized>>

"to bring out of a savage, uneducated, or rude state; make civil; elevate in social and private life; enlighten; refine: Rome civilized the barbarians."

"polite; well-bred; refined."

"of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance."

"easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns."

"To raise from barbarism to an enlightened stage of development; bring out of a primitive or savage state."

"To educate in matters of culture and refinement; make more polished or sophisticated."

"Marked by refinement in taste and manners; cultured; polished."

and finally these 2

"Showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable"

"having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc."

the point is TJW was using the terms Advanced and Highly to push his perspective. but from the above it is clear that "civilized" has a broad usage, and TJW would not/could not quote anything that didnt support his claim.

can TJW or Terapin be willing to step up and say that past centuries and their societies are not civilized????

becuase the original debate was "we(21st century) are civilized and not susceptible to violent outrage."

my counter was that past centuries(his antagonist) are no less civilized.


i know TJW doesnt give a sh*t what i think, but the fact the online dictionaries state its nessary for a culture to be advanced to warrant the rank of civilized is distortion at its highest (its elitism).




Terapin you carlessly address Type vs Stlye(like), however its very important to define which is to be used. becuase TJW is a skeptic and if you give a skeptic a strawman they will wear him out ragged.

"waco Style" are incidents that have cults(or similar traits) that make a last stand in a build, with it ending with a great blaze.

"waco Type" are incidents that involve govt agents or police violating the constitution rights of a person/persons. in addition it means makeing trump charges to warrant search and seizures.


it is up to you to recognise that these two are very differnt. and just to clarify Titor himself stated "waco Type", and since he's the subject dont deter(even carelessly) from the claims.

it shouldnt be an issue but if youve followed this thread as you claim, youd know TJW has made this an issue. he has routinely denied our evidence becuase it did not involve a cult or did not end with 70 people burning in a fire.

there are reports of people haveing there rights violated, nearly on a daily basis. to refuse to consider these as evidence, can only be done by those who have already made up their minds on this subject.

if your a minority you wont care to much becuase unfortunately this has been your life story, but its crossing a gap into all groups which is unheard of.

lets not confuse the situation either these waco type events are a minor claim compared to the total of what titor has claimed. its easily one of the easier claims the prove yet at the same time one of the hardest to convince people that they are really there. thousands of threads are on ATS outlining these very claims and have not been connected to titors claims, these incidents are happening. do they prove titor is real? NO, but they do offer credit to his claims.


as many have stated 2008 is the crux and all opinions should be put aside until then.

[edit on 7/4/07 by Glyph_D]

Fair enough. I will respond to my use of the word like, instead of type, or style. I realize Titor said type. I understand that specific wording has caused much heated debate. I use the word "like" as I was not concerned with the word, but the intent. Lets use type if you prefer as it is more germain to the discussion.

Waco was federal forces, using military tactics, against a civilian group, resulting in several horrendous deaths. That it was a cult, and had a criminal warrant against the leader, to me, is of little import in this discussion. The basic understanding is 1) Federal force, as Titor spoke about the us vs. them, civilian against govt. forces. 2) That military tactics were used, I do remember the tank, as Titor spoke about civil War, and 3) that the death toll was quite high on the civilian side.

That, is what I infer to be "Waco type" events. Type, meaning equivalent relation or class.


Since 2004, I have not seen monthly events in which federal forces, used military tactics, against civilians, that resulted in multiple deaths. Nor have I seen a steady increase in the severity of these type of events.

I mentioned that unrelated Tazer events were squeaky, as there is little comparison between Waco, and someone getting Tazered. You may remember, or have read about if you are too young, the incident at Kent State, where unarmed civilian students were fired upon by the National Guard, resulting in death. That would be much like Waco. There was far more civil unrest in that time period than there is now. There was far more civil disobedience and resulting government forceful reactions. Despite the significantly greater civil unrest in those times, the country did not fall into civil war.

People are far more complacent today. While many have voiced their opinion that the war in Iraq is wrong, there has been far less protesting and civil disobedience, than there was during Vietnam. Yes, crime is bad, and so are the police, but where are federal forces attacking civilians, resulting in death? Where is it getting worse? Can anyone point to specific events, month by month, that would give credence to the Titor statement that there would be Waco "type" events monthly, and steadily getting worse, leading up to war at my doorstep? If unlike during the Vietnam era, the country is going to fall into civil war, then I would like some information regarding specific details leading up to said war. I just havent seen any. Call me stupid if you wish, but could someone post a list of events month by month so I can better understand what you claim is hapening?

Originally posted by Glyph_D

the point is TJW was using the terms Advanced and Highly to push his perspective.

Again, I used the dictionary. Blame the dictionary for the terms "highly" "advanced"

but from the above it is clear that "civilized" has a broad usage, and TJW would not/could not quote anything that didnt support his claim.

wtf are you talking about?
We're talking about whether the 21st century is more advanced than times past. Using those other broad definitions aren't as relevant to the discussion, nevertheless if you want to use them then by all means use them!!!!!!!!
My point still stands!!!
You can used every single one of those definitions!!!

can TJW or Terapin be willing to step up and say that past centuries and their societies are not civilized????

I'm not sure what you're talking about? Yes humans were once uncivilized but as time has progress and continues to progress we continue to get more civilized (by every definition)

becuase the original debate was "we(21st century) are civilized and not susceptible to violent outrage."

That was not the argument!!!!
WTF are you talking about???? The debate was SIMPLY whether we're more civilized now than in time past. Period. You say we're not and I'm asking you to show me why you say that.

my counter was that past centuries(his antagonist) are no less civilized.

And I'm telling you to read a history book for once....

"waco Style" are incidents that have cults(or similar traits) that make a last stand in a build, with it ending with a great blaze.

"waco Type" are incidents that involve govt agents or police violating the constitution rights of a person/persons. in addition it means makeing trump charges to warrant search and seizures.

Where are you getting this from? I seriously want to know...

it is up to you to recognise that these two are very differnt. and just to clarify Titor himself stated "waco Type", and since he's the subject dont deter(even carelessly) from the claims.

it shouldnt be an issue but if youve followed this thread as you claim, youd know TJW has made this an issue. he has routinely denied our evidence becuase it did not involve a cult or did not end with 70 people burning in a fire.

????
You like bringing up my name. You Titorites are the one who've made this an issue. I simply asked you to name the 39 waco type events. None of you Titorites have done so.
Denied your evidence?? Please, how can I deny evidence if you never present the evidence!
And you're partly right, I would deny any thing less than something similar to Waco. This is a civil war we're talking about here. As I've stated MANY times now, anything less than something similar to what happened at Waco won't cause a civil war ANYWHERE! And Titor specifically stated that these events would grow worse! So if the first one is like Waco, the the 39th (which would be this month) should be FAR worse than what happened at Waco! This would make perfect sense, since this is a civil war we're talking about here!!

there are reports of people haveing there rights violated, nearly on a daily basis. to refuse to consider these as evidence, can only be done by those who have already made up their minds on this subject.

Your lack of knowledge of simple history is astounding. You think having your rights violated is anything new!?!?!? This stuff has been going on LONG before Titor. LONG before Waco.

if your a minority you wont care to much becuase unfortunately this has been your life story, but its crossing a gap into all groups which is unheard of.

Omg. For crying out loud read your history!!!
The fact that this stuff is being reported now instead of shoved under a rug is a good thing! Though it's obvious by your statements that the fact that it's being reported more and more now gives the false impression that this stuff is new and/or getting worse.....

as many have stated 2008 is the crux and all opinions should be put aside until then.

This is your thoughts, not Titor's.
Titor stated several times 2004 would be the "crux" with the start of the Civil War. 2008 is what you guys have made up and I'm not exactly sure why yet. As far as the war is concerned Titor only stated that the war will be on everyone's doorstep by 2008. And as stated before that would be about right. It would take at least 4 years for a war to spread across a country like this.
Saying we should put off all opinions is just a silly attempt to deflect this war further into the future.

Glyph
quote: "waco Style" are incidents that have cults(or similar traits) that make a last stand in a build, with it ending with a great blaze.

"waco Type" are incidents that involve govt agents or police violating the constitution rights of a person/persons. in addition it means makeing trump charges to warrant search and seizures.
------------------------------------------------------------------
ThatsJustWeird
Where are you getting this from? I seriously want to know...

ThatsJustWeird, the federalized media labeled them a cult, this is where Glyph is comparing YOU as labeling it Waco type event.

BTW, the Branch Davidians are religious people, American Citizens, they are like other religious Americans.

The federal media lied and labeled them a cult.

__definition of Waco type event:
Excessive force by Federal Government and Mass Media cover up, Media lies, the Government acts as judge, jury, executioner, federal killers that walk away free. People working for the Global elite, the NWO who hates our liberties and freedoms. Domestic state repression in the form of murder.

ext....

John Titor:
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they
thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I
would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The
conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.

2012 is when it consumes everyone in the US.

Glyph
quote: as many have stated 2008 is the crux and all opinions should be put aside until then.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ThatsJustWeird:
This is your thoughts, not Titor's.
Titor stated several times 2004 would be the "crux" with the start of the Civil War. 2008 is what you guys have made up and I'm not exactly sure why yet. As far as the war is concerned Titor only stated that the war will be on everyone's doorstep by 2008. And as stated before that would be about right. It would take at least 4 years for a war to spread across a country like this.

I think Glyph means "crux" as (on everyone's doorstep by 2008.)

ThatsJustWeird meaning of "crux" is already here (Waco type event every month steadily gets worse.) Though he would deny the definition "Waco type event" as stated above:

ThatsJustWeird is looking for some kind of cult event? go figure

ThatsJustWeird:
Saying we should put off all opinions is just a silly attempt to deflect this war further into the future.

We could "deflect this war further into the future."

Pamela: 4.How is this world line different from your own?

Timetravel_0:
For starters....the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also noticed little things like news events that happen at different times, football games won by other teams...things like that. I would guess the temporal divergence between this world line and my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence becomes from my point of view.

Timetravel_0:
"I've also noticed little things like news events that happen at different times"

In accordant with Titor words, events do happen at different times.

Perhaps Waco type events may be delayed, or we could say the Civil War is behind schedule.



Only time will tell....


[edit on 8-4-2007 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by Terapin
Call me stupid if you wish, but could someone post a list of events month by month so I can better understand what you claim is hapening?

im not going to call you names for wanting evidence. but could you please realize how big of an order your asking of us??

especially when this is the umbrella which these claim will hide under>

titor:
I don't remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.

interestingly this is a very loaded quote. the truth about these incidents is that they all had a violation of law enforcement usage, however were presented as nothing of the such by the media.

titor:
Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there?

If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire.

so you want me(us) to find 39 incidents that the media down played, but yet were infact violations of constitutional rights. and seeing how the truth of all three of those events were not realized until many years afterwards, its gonna be a hard task for anyone.

i think the only way to effectively answer this question is to get a list of every single person imprisoned that ha been wrongly accused of a crime and were apprehended by force. and we must also investigate all deaths by fire, and make sure it wasnt arson.

im certain the Ed Brown incident would have gone a little different, if he had not got the word out.


titor said these incidences would escalate. a tazer arrest or a tazer death would fit somewhere on this scale we would be using. a large portion of tazer incidences are wrongful usages of force. its not the height of the "waco type" but it could be argued its a part of them. and this is just local law enforcement, to find the truth about the ATF or FBI is not going to be as easy.


plz do not take this post as a dodge, the intent is to clarify what is being requested.

Again
Thatsjustweird and Terapin: do not try to turn the discussion regarding John Titor into a personal verbal fist fight in order to make the moderators shut down this thread. I will not allow that. So stay on topic please.

Also Terapin, you still haven't answered my questions to you:

Originally posted by Terapin
Current tally.......That's just weird, has stated more verifiable facts than Roth Joint. Roth has evaded more questions. Roth has made more accusations, and from my review of the thread, they are unjustified. Roth also seems to hurl more insults which leads nowhere.

Show me, quote for quote and in comparison to thatsjustweird:

1. Where exactly am I hurling more insults than thatsjustweird. Exactly, how many more insults am I making in comparison to thatsjustweird?

2. Where exactly am I making more accusations than thatsjusweird. Exactly, how many more accusations am I making in comparison to thatsjustweird?

3. Where exactly does thatsjusweird states more verifiable facts than I do? Exactly, how many more facts has tjw made in comparison to the quantity of facts I have provided?

Could you finally give me an answer? Edit: I prefer you send me a U2U.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by Roth Joint]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Ex. 1
You said: The West was supposed to collapse in 2005.
That wasn’t what Titor said. Titor was talking about Western stability. If Western stability collapses, that doesn’t mean the entire West collapses. Plain and simple.

Then by all means tell us what that means Roth. And since it's "plain and simple" you should be able to answer my request with no probs. Show me where the stability of any country or region collapsed yet the country or region didn't.

According to Titor it was not the West that collapsed but Western political stability. If Titor meant the West collapsed, there would be no logic in mentioning “a unified European army.” Furthermore, Titor clearly emphasizes “desperation from Western leadership” therefore meaning political stability….. and boy, has it collapsed. Political Western stability collapsed after May 29, 2005 when both France and The Netherlands rejected the constitutional treaty for Europe in their respective referendums. From there on things got worse.

msnbc.msn.com...
The clash at Hampton Court is a symptom of the crisis gripping Europe. The economic integration of the Continent's 450 million consumers into a prosperous single market—the EU's raison d'etre since its creation after World War II—has come to a virtual standstill. At the same time, growing numbers of Europeans have awakened to the threat of globalization, with little agreement on how to cope.

On one side are the core economies of the continent: Germany, Italy and France, all stagnating yet determined to preserve their vision of a "social Europe" that protects citizens from too much change.
On the other side: Britain and the Scandinavians, who want to meet the challenges of globalization by staying competitive, flexible and attuned to the fast-changing demands of the market.

John Titor
“They are not directly involved but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.

“The attack on Europe is in response to a unified European army that masses and moves East from Germany.”

“The war is a result of faulty politics and desperation from Western leadership during the US civil war”

Originally posted by Terapin
I guess you don't understand how the Large Hadron collider, or LHC, works. No big deal, but it is easy to make leaps of logic, when you are using imagination rather than science.

The LHC uses superconducting magnets to "Pull" a sub atomic particle, such as an electron. The electron is initially fired from a canon, into the LHC. It is then speeded up to super high velocities, and smashed into a detector plate. The rate of impact is on the order of millions per second, so it is not just one electron traveling at a time, it is a whole bus load. There is no method of pulling it a little bit less so that a single electron comes to a stop, as, unless it is being pulled, it will combine with the elements. If a microsingularity is ever created in the LHC it would be at the moment of impact, and not while traveling the magnetic "tube." If one is ever created, it would evaporate at the moment of detection. Think Ice cube on the sun. Since there is no method of containment at the detector plate, and no method of preventing a microsingularity of evaporating into hawking radiation, then how do you propose keeping one longer than micro seconds in the LHC facility? Magnetic bottles are cool ideas, but there isn't one that is strong enough to prevent microsingluarity evaporation. Even the superconducting magnets installed at the LHC would be useless.

You mention a microsingularity "disappearing." They don't disappear, they evaporate. You mentioned affixing a transponder. Since a microsingularity would be atomic in size, what material do you propose making a transponder out of, that would be smaller than an atom and able to withstand a microsingularity? I could go on and on, but perhaps it would be better to converse about this, when you have done a little more research on the nature of sub atomic physics, and the LHC. It is quite fascinating material, but little understood by many. Here is a good link to get you started CERN, Ask an Expert

I was hoping that you might respond to my earlier question regarding the worsening monthly Waco events. Perhaps someone else will read my post and respond with clarity.

Your speech is very sweet. Think harder. The existence of Hawking radiation remains controversial. It has never been seen nor tested.

www.iop.org...
Do black holes radiate?
Adam D. Helfer
“The possibility that non-radiating ‘mini’ black holes exist should be taken seriously; such holes could be part of the dark matter in the Universe.”

For anyone who wishes to stay up to date:
space.qj.net...

Oh boy, there are some very exciting times ahead of us….. I can’t wait for the LHC to come on-line….

Regarding the US civil war and “Waco-type” events the following:

John Titor said: “The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.”

John Titor mentioned “having a Waco type event” not because of the huge media attention, not because of the great fire and tanks, but clearly as an example of the misbehavior, the method of acting of US Government authorities and Agencies against US civilians. And the quotes below explain why:

John Titor
“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”

“If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire.”

“However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, “In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems”. When they use the word “enemy”, they’re talking about YOU! You don’t really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?”

Question: Will you readily be able to identify the enemy? “They will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process.”

“The "enemy" that was attacked by Russia in the U.S. was the forces of the government you live under right now."

Also Glyph_D gave you a perfect answer with regards to what Titor meant when he said:
“I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.”

Glyph_D:
“I see this as a method to conveniently group all the incidents that are going to happen.”

There you go. It’s not only the increasing taser-related deaths, as well as the many deadly gun incidents that follow the criteria of Titor’s “having a "Waco type event." Waco happened right under our noses and we did not do a thing. We allowed them to do everything in the name of “safety and security.” Sounds familiar doesn’t it nowadays?

John Titor
“The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong.”

Thank you Roth. You have shown us yet again that you're only here to push YOUR views. You really don't believe Titor. That's why you insist on telling us that what you think he MEANT to say, not what he actually said.
Unless of course you are Titor and are just correcting for your mistakes, which again I'm personally starting to believe more and more.


First though...
I want Glyph to answer for himself but

Originally posted by XPhiles
ThatsJustWeird, the federalized media labeled them a cult, this is where Glyph is comparing YOU as labeling it Waco type event.

This doesn't make sense....
Who cares if they were a cult or not?

BTW, the Branch Davidians are religious people, American Citizens, they are like other religious Americans.

The federal media lied and labeled them a cult.

1. Which media outlets comprise this "federal media?"
2. Name one media outlet that didn't label them a cult? I'll give you a hint....There are none!
3. Do you know what a cult is? Just because they are labeled one doesn't make it a bad thing. The Trekkies, those who are fans of Star Trek, would be considered a cult. Whether they were labeled a cult or not is irrelevant to what happened....

__definition of Waco type event:
Excessive force by Federal Government and Mass Media cover up, Media lies, the Government acts as judge, jury, executioner, federal killers that walk away free. People working for the Global elite, the NWO who hates our liberties and freedoms. Domestic state repression in the form of murder.

ext....

As I asked Glyph, where are you getting this from? That's all I asked and wanted to know. I'll ask you the same. If you're just making this up, it's ok to say so. I just want to know where you all are getting this from....

Glyph
quote: as many have stated 2008 is the crux and all opinions should be put aside until then.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ThatsJustWeird:
This is your thoughts, not Titor's.
Titor stated several times 2004 would be the "crux" with the start of the Civil War. 2008 is what you guys have made up and I'm not exactly sure why yet. As far as the war is concerned Titor only stated that the war will be on everyone's doorstep by 2008. And as stated before that would be about right. It would take at least 4 years for a war to spread across a country like this.

I think Glyph means "crux" as (on everyone's doorstep by 2008.)

ThatsJustWeird meaning of "crux" is already here (Waco type event every month steadily gets worse.)

No, I said 2004 as that was the beginning of the greatest event in human history. Remember from the time Titor was here, up until 2004 things were supposed to be building up, then in 2004 the civil war would begin. An event that will change the course of humankind.
If Glyph thinks 2008 would be the crux, then that's his thoughts...not Titors

Though he would deny the definition "Waco type event" as stated above:

1. Where'd you get that definition from? If it wasn't from Titor, then yeah, I'd probably have to deny it.
2. What did I tell you guys MANY times before. If Waco didn't cause a civil war, then why would anything less than Waco cause one??

ThatsJustWeird is looking for some kind of cult event? go figure

No I'm not. Where did you get that from?
Remember when those Terrorists seized that school in Russia and everything surrounding that event? That didn't involve a "cult" as you're thinking of the word "cult" did it? No, but that would be considered a Waco type event. And if something like that were to happen every month getting worse and worse, then of course there would be a civil war.

We could "deflect this war further into the future."

Pamela: 4.How is this world line different from your own?

Timetravel_0:
For starters....the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also noticed little things like news events that happen at different times, football games won by other teams...things like that. I would guess the temporal divergence between this world line and my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that divergence becomes from my point of view.

I'm glad your brought those quotes up.
You know what 1 or 2 percent of infinity is? It's infinity!! lol
That was Titor talking out of his rear. Since this worldline is obviously not his, the chance of anything happening the way Titor said it would is extremely slim.

Roth:

Again
Thatsjustweird and Terapin: do not try to turn the discussion regarding John Titor into a personal verbal fist fight in order to make the moderators shut down this thread. I will not allow that. So stay on topic please.

What are you talking about? Having read over my and Terapin's post over and over again to see what you are referring to, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about (and it's really kind of funny since whatever you're talking about, I can guarantee you I can find worse coming from you Titorites concerning me)

Anyway....

According to Titor it was not the West that collapsed but Western political stability

You quote Titor in your post and you still have to throw your little twists in there. Titor states western stability collapses. Period. Meaning the stability of the west, collapses. That was supposed to happen in 2005.
Even if Titor was just talking about political stability, your thoughts on this are totally ridiculous. We've gone over this before and I know for sure that you refused to expound on what you're talking about....

Political Western stability collapsed after May 29, 2005 when both France and The Netherlands rejected the constitutional treaty for Europe in their respective referendums. From there on things got worse.

1. The French and Dutch hardly make up the west so the fact that they didn't sign the EU constitution is hardly a sign the west has collapsed. The fact that they didn't sign it is completely irrelevant to the rest of the west.
2. The political situations in those countries are still completely in tact so how in the world is this a sign that political stability has collapsed?
3. ALL those countries still have their own constitutions, again, just because the EU doesn't have one yet is irrelevant. Do you know how long it took to come up with ours?
4. lol, how did things get worse? Again, them not signing it didn't change a thing.

John Titor mentioned “having a Waco type event” not because of the huge media attention, not because of the great fire and tanks, but clearly as an example of the misbehavior, the method of acting of US Government authorities and Agencies against US civilians. And the quotes below explain why:

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're pushing your agenda.
Titor states "having a waco type event" as THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS! lol
He's simply stating how the war began. Having something like Waco happen every month would indeed cause a civil war, anything less wouldn't. Period.

You quoting random Titor quotes out of context does nothing to help your argument.

I know one thing.

If Dubya keeps up his expeditions, there wont be many troops in the country to defend the government from the people.

Naturally I could see a people vs federal conflict on a country wide scale if there were numerous natural disasters like nothing we've experienced before, causing a total breakdown in civil society (imagine Katrina aftermath except across the whole country).

If that breakdown was caused, the government would lose its cashcow, us, and they'd undoubtably try to force us into line, to work on their projects and make taxable paychecks and all that. i could see 'wilderness people' trying to live outside of the standard 'american way' .. of the future, at least.

If anything happens, meet me somewhere along the Appalachia's in Virginia and North Carolina

(my relative was a brig. general in the missouri confederate state guard)

Meh, they won't listen to you runetang. I've stated that before.
They insist thinking a civil war in the world's only super power can just pop up out of the blue in this day and age
In it's current state the US has too many people, is too important on a global scale, is much too powerful (despite Bush's war we still currently have well over a million troops doing nothing right now - not including the reserves), and the people are too complacent for a civil war to just break out.
As you stated you would have to have a natural disaster or series of natural disasters that affects ALL of the nation. Or have something else (or a series of something elses) occur in which the government systematically loses power and control.

thatsjustweird:
1. Which media outlets comprise this "federal media?"
2. Name one media outlet that didn't label them a cult? I'll give you a hint....There are none!
3. Do you know what a cult is? Just because they are labeled one doesn't make it a bad thing. The Trekkies, those who are fans of Star Trek, would be considered a cult. Whether they were labeled a cult or not is irrelevant to what happened....

1. back theN, the big three br0adcasting Networks.... thatsJustweird, the "federal media?" is controlled bY the fcc.

2. well yeah, media deception... they lied and labeled them a cult.

3. it IS very evident your a Trekkie fan lol.... It's well known the label 'culT' hurt the davidians tO a faiR hearing.

davidians where derived from 7th day adventists church and law-abiding american citizens. not a cult, as the mass media depicted.

thatsjustweird:
As I asked Glyph, where are you getting this from? That's all I asked and wanted to know. I'll ask you the same. If you're just making this up, it's ok to say so. I just want to know where you all are getting this from....

I'm not making this up, or pulling it out of my 4$$, it was all played out on live tv! The federal killers walk away free....... almost... I remember two things about the 19th.

thatsjustweird:
No, I said 2004 as that was the beginning of the greatest event in human history.

Titor never said "beginning of the greatest event in human history." Where did you get this from, I can't find it anywhere?

Or...

Are you saying, the deaths of over 150 million people is 'the beginning of the greatest event in human history.'
.....eh... I hope not.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by XPhiles
1. back theN, the big three br0adcasting Networks.... thatsJustweird, the "federal media?" is controlled bY the fcc.

Hmmm....here's a more simple question. Which meida networks AREN'T federal?

2. well yeah, media deception... they lied and labeled them a cult.

No, they just stated the obvious.....

3. it IS very evident your a Trekkie fan lol.... It's well known the label 'culT' hurt the davidians tO a faiR hearing.

lol, Star Trek is ok, but I'm not trekkie.
What hearing btw? Again, the fact that they were a cult did nothing to change anything.

davidians where derived from 7th day adventists church and law-abiding american citizens.

That's what the whole raid was for buddy....
Because apparently they weren't completely law abiding. Do you know how many cults there are?? Dozens! If not hundreds! Do you know why they're left alone? Because they are generally no threat. That sect of the Davidians may have crossed the line however (you probably didn't even know they weren't the only Davidians or I should say those people weren't the ones who made that up. The Branch Davidians have been around for a long time)
This is where knowledge of what happened at Waco comes into play (you do know the circumstance surrounding Waco don't you? By your posts it seems you don't know the full story....)

I'm not making this up, or pulling it out of my 4$$, it was all played out on live tv! The federal killers walk away free....... almost... I remember two things about the 19th.

So you're not getting that from Titor. That's all I wanted to know....

And what two things do you remember?

Titor never said "beginning of the greatest event in human history." Where did you get this from, I can't find it anywhere?

Or...

Are you saying, the deaths of over 150 million people is 'the beginning of the greatest event in human history.'
.....eh... I hope not.

Those 150 million occur in an event that will lead to 3 billion. Yeah, I would say wiping out nearly half the earth's population (and causing very long term damage to the earth) is indeed the greatest event in human history

Thatsjustweird, it would do you good to watch:

WACO: The Rules of Engagement
Part 1: video.google.com...
Part 2: video.google.com...

Edit: second link wasn't working (now it does!)

[edit on 9-4-2007 by Roth Joint]