The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Thatsjustweird:
Why are you repeating your questions when you were beaten by my previous answers long ago? You make an interesting case for....well.... a psychiatrist!

Now stop acting like a schoolboy and challenge me for a change.... than we will talk again....

Thatsjustweird:
You're still not answering my question. In denial of WHAT???

Rubbish, I have answered you several times. stop repeating yourself... that is syrinx high priest job.

Thatsjustweird:
How can I be in denial if there's nothing to be in denial about!? lol!!!

It's interesting you think your not, sometimes denial shields you from seeing what is really happening.

Thatsjustweird:
Denying reasoning and reliable references
That doesn't make sense. Seriously, what are you talking about?

Come on now! you know exactly what I'm talking about, seriously you do!

Thatsjustweird:
If by denying reasoning you mean denying your silly assumptions of what you think a Waco event is then, YES I'm calling you out on that. Your claim that the stuff you posted is a Waco event is not rational reasoning. It's your illogical hope of trying to prove Titor right.
And you haven't posted any reliable references saying that stuff is a Waco event so please explain.....

Keep on lying and denying to yourself, you know what Waco was all about... I hope!




[edit on 4-4-2007 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by XPhiles
I kind of anticipated a irrational response from you, your becoming predictable. YOUR perspective is ALL wrong.

1. My perspective on what is wrong? and
2. I take it you have some sort of proof or whatever my perspective is wrong?

I honestly think you hope, that Titor is real.

....and why would I hope that?
That's another thing that makes YOU guys interesting to figure out. You guys WANT to see death and destruction. Why? Every single person (including yourself) would be affected in a negative way but you guys are sitting here wishing that on people! I don't get it.....

You are making the wrong assumptions. The ones who are setting up the stage for this war, are the ones who are seeking death and destruction. And they aren’t doing this to spread democracy…. Aaaah how a powerful lobby can move from justified frustration to wrongly motivated evilness…. There’s your death and destruction……

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Thatsjustweird:
Why are you repeating your questions when you were beaten by my previous answers long ago? You make an interesting case for....well.... a psychiatrist!

Now stop acting like a schoolboy and challenge me for a change.... than we will talk again....

This is funny. You always state you've answered my questions or have "beaten" them, but when I ask you to point where you have done this you have refused. I wonder why that is
And YES I have gone back to try and find where you have answered/beaten my questions and I can't find them. The links you usually put up go WAY off topic and/or are irrelevant and/or are just silly pathetic answers that skip around the question.

A lot of my questions aren't even real question, they are more "show me" type questions. This makes it even more puzzling why you refuse to answer. If you state something then just show me where you got your info! Plain and simple. Titor stated the war will start in 2004 you on the other hand are stating it will start in 2008. Show me how you came to this conclusion?
You usually twist Titor's words to make them fit your view when asked things like that. Why must you do that? Why should we believe you over Titor?

X -

Rubbish, I have answered you several times. stop repeating yourself... that is syrinx high priest job.

Ok, let's look back them.

First time I asked what am I denying a couple pages ago, your response was:
"Sometimes it's the denial that turns people into sheep or wolves. Though I think there is some hope for you, just confront your denial and recognize that John Titor was here and has giving you fair warning."
No where in that statement did you tell me what I'm denying. So I ask again and your response was
"Let me make MYSELF clear:

Your denying reasoning, and reliable references that I have posted. By that LOGIC, your in denial.
Now think about it... I'm know you have some (logical) thinking left in you, maybe it's time for you to understand and avoid this denial. So, like a good shepherd, I am helping you see."

I addressed this as best I could (as it really doesn't make sense). And here we are. I'm still waiting for you to plainly list the things you think I'm in denial of.

Perhaps you don't know what denial means?
That's the only thing I can think of as to why you won't answer such a simple request....
I'll help you out a bit.
All you have to do is fill in the blank

Thatsjustweird is in denial of/that _______________

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Thatsjustweird:
Why are you repeating your questions when you were beaten by my previous answers long ago? You make an interesting case for....well.... a psychiatrist!

Now stop acting like a schoolboy and challenge me for a change.... than we will talk again....

This is funny. You always state you've answered my questions or have "beaten" them, but when I ask you to point where you have done this you have refused. I wonder why that is

And YES I have gone back to try and find where you have answered/beaten my questions and I can't find them.

That's simply because you don't want to find or read them or that you have a severe reading comprehension problem. Don't worry, you don't fool the reader of this thread.... they already found the answers.... on the other hand... you never will, because your mindset is too much focused on protecting the interest of a Government that has lost most of its support of the American people.... wake up and open your eyes.....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
The links you usually put up go WAY off topic and/or are irrelevant and/or are just silly pathetic answers that skip around the question.

Your accusations don't hold... you can't fool the reader..... everything I have shown you is extremely relevant to what Titor "predicted" and very connected to today's reality.... it's your problem you can't or don't want to see it....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
A lot of my questions aren't even real question, they are more "show me" type questions. This makes it even more puzzling why you refuse to answer.

Again, I have answered you many times, but you behave like a Neanderthal by not addressing them and to continue your pathetic childish game to ignore, deny, lie and twist….

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
If you state something then just show me where you got your info! Plain and simple.

I did many, many times, simply read what I wrote, but you simply refuse to see it….plain and simple.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Titor stated the war will start in 2004 you on the other hand are stating it will start in 2008. Show me how you came to this conclusion?

Again, Titor stated that from his viewpoint the war will have it’s roots (or start) in 2004. If he meant it would be a full blown civil war in 2004, there would be no need for him to say he would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. Furthermore he said Waco-type events and NOT Waco-style, meaning Government/Law enforcement tactics against US civilians….. and taser-deaths fit very well in that description….. Do you get it now… finally? So in 2008 it will be pretty much on everyone’s doorstep….. just as Titor “predicted” it….

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You usually twist Titor's words to make them fit your view when asked things like that. Why must you do that? Why should we believe you over Titor?

You are the one who continually twists Titor’s words as proven on this thread… Why should anyone believe you anymore….. You obviously have a very great interest by discrediting Titor…why is that?..... Does he threaten you?......Has he hurt you in the past?.....or perhaps you believed him at first but are now so frustrated with yourself you want to take it out on anyone who understands the logic of Titor……. So again…..stop behaving like a schoolboy thatsjustweird…… the sky is blue and the weather is fine…..enjoy it……

update.

Since we have flipped the calendar page yet again, lets see, that makes it 39 waco like events that the mainstream media covers like it did Elian Gonzalez that the titorites owe the skeptics.

That should be easy enough for you to demonstrate. The trick, of course, will be to show that the events get steadliy worse.

To be fair, I'll give you extra credit if you can show a journalist comparing George W Bush to Abraham Lincoln saying that W is "uniting the country"


ready


set



go !!!!!

Roth, you're completely hopeless.
(at least you would be if you were actually serious, which you're not)
You constant skipping of simple questions and requests is astounding.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
You are the one who continually twists Titor’s words as proven on this thread…

If it's been proven in this thread then there should be absolutely no problem showing where I have done this.

If I've done this please show me so I can correct myself.

Why should anyone believe you anymore…..

What? Don't believe me at all for all I care!! Look at the evidence or lack there of. I'm hoping people will do their own research!

the sky is blue and the weather is fine…..enjoy it……

because your mindset is too much focused on protecting the interest of a Government that has lost most of its support of the American people.... wake up and open your eyes.....

These are two more quotes I want you to explain but I know you won't.
Just because I don't believe in Titor means I think everything is ok??? Are you insane?? I NEVER once even suggested that! But of course your lack of intelligence somehow came to this conclusion. No surprise....

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
update.

Since we have flipped the calendar page yet again, lets see, that makes it 39 waco like events

lol, Titor never said Waco-like but Waco-type. Waco-type means US Government/Law enforcement against US civilians (men, women and children). Waco-type Taser-deaths everywhere.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
...that the mainstream media covers like it did Elian Gonzalez that the titorites owe the skeptics.

Being a titoragonist yourself, you probably know what the word probably means. Furthermore, Titor said he would "probably characterize it"..... just as Titor somewhere else said he would "characterize world politics as two boxers who have just gone multiple rounds and they're both pretty beat up."

So Titor "probably charactarizes" something here, meaning: he is making an educated guess....nothing more, nothing less..... lol

John Titor
I don't remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
That should be easy enough for you to demonstrate. The trick, of course, will be to show that the events get steadliy worse.

As shown before on this thread, Waco-type Taser-deaths are getting worse in this country. Here’s my previous post containing all the links to answers I’ve already beaten tjw with: www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here is one of these links explaining that Waco-type Taser-deaths indeed get worse and worse:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
No thatsjustweird, it is really you and only you who who should stop spreading your lies and start doing some research, or better, finally open up your eyes. Just because you are ignoring things, doesn't mean they aren't there and steadily getting worse.

web.amnesty.org...
USA
Amnesty International’s continuing concerns about taser use
28 March 2006

As with Amnesty International’s previous report, the organisation has gathered information from press, autopsy reports and police and paramedic reports and statements from coroners’/medical examiners’ offices. Amnesty International remains concerned that the large number of deaths in the past year fall into the same pattern as those deaths which had occurred previously. Of the 152 taser related deaths documented by Amnesty International:

* Most of those who died in custody were unarmed and were not posing a serious threat to police officers, members of the public, or themselves
* Those who died were generally subjected to repeated or prolonged shocks
* Use of the taser was often accompanied by the use of restraints and/or chemical incapacitant sprays
* Many of those who died had underlying health problems, such as heart conditions or mental illness, or were under the influence of drugs
* Most of those who died went into cardiac or respiratory arrest at the scene

Amnesty International considers that the use of the tasers in many of the cases which resulted in death was excessive, amounting in some cases to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. In many of the cases reviewed by AI, those who came in contact with the police were not armed, or had already been restrained.

John Titor:
"However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…" When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!"

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
To be fair, I'll give you extra credit if you can show a journalist comparing George W Bush to Abraham Lincoln saying that W is "uniting the country"

The key words here are trying and desperately.

John Titor
“The President or "leader" in 2005 I believe tried desperately to be the next Lincoln and hold the country together but many of their policies drove a larger wedge into the Bill of Rights.”

And ofcourse I am more than happy to repeat one of my previous answers again and again:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
The part you missed was that the President or "leader" in 2005 tried desperately to be the next Lincoln…(apparently John Titor knew very well the President in 2005 would be a Republican….) … Before the Civil War outbreak in 1861, Lincoln speaking in 1858 stated in his speech that “a house divided against itself cannot stand” and “I do not expect the house to fall, but I do expect it will cease to be divided.” I am absolutely convinced Titor hinted at this. Lincoln was trying to hold the country together before push came to shove.

Our Republican President in 2005 campaigned for President in 2000 as "a uniter, not a divider."

2005:
www.washingtonpost.com...
”Instead of uniting the country through his choice, the president has chosen to reward one faction of his party at the risk of dividing the country,” Leahy said.

2006:
www.opinionjournal.com...
Despite how painful it would prove to be, Lincoln chose the road to victory. President Bush today finds himself in precisely the same dilemma Lincoln faced 144 years ago. With American survival at stake, he also must choose. His strategies are not wrong, but they are failing.

Ready… set… Go!……Eh… what's up, Doc?… Have a very nice Eastern!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth, you're completely hopeless.
(at least you would be if you were actually serious, which you're not)
You constant skipping of simple questions and requests is astounding.

Your questions are indeed simple and answered long ago. You must be a (insulting word) to believe I am endlessly going to repeat them to serve your (insulting word) satisfaction.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
You are the one who continually twists Titor’s words as proven on this thread…

If it's been proven in this thread then there should be absolutely no problem showing where I have done this.

If I've done this please show me so I can correct myself.

You have fingers and a keyboard...and perhaps some intelligence....so help yourself.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Why should anyone believe you anymore…..

What? Don't believe me at all for all I care!! Look at the evidence or lack there of. I'm hoping people will do their own research!

I as well, sincerely hope people will do their own research... it saves me the trouble to correct you time and time again.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
the sky is blue and the weather is fine…..enjoy it……

Originally posted by Roth Joint
because your mindset is too much focused on protecting the interest of a Government that has lost most of its support of the American people.... wake up and open your eyes.....

These are two more quotes I want you to explain but I know you won't.
Just because I don't believe in Titor means I think everything is ok??? Are you insane?? I NEVER once even suggested that! But of course your lack of intelligence somehow came to this conclusion. No surprise....

The quote about the blue sky and the nice weather: you are a meteorologist you said.... or wasn't that entirely true?

The quote about your focus on this Government: really, I do not have to explain that one, I simply refer to all of your comments on this thread... and before you ask me for quotes, you have fingers and a keyboard...and perhaps some intelligence....so help yourself.

*sigh* so typical of you Roth. You won't do it because you can't!!
You accused me of twisting Titor's words. I didn't accuse myself, so it's up to YOU to show me where I did this!!!!
I'm not a mind reader! How am I supposed to know what you're talking about!? I asked you politely to show me where I did this so I can correct myself.
Your refusal to do so only leads me to believe you were making that up or can't find where I was twisting Titor's words.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
The quote about the blue sky and the nice weather: you are a meteorologist you said.... or wasn't that entirely true?

Stop with the BS Roth....
You stated that because you're foolish enough to think I think everything is ok.

The quote about your focus on this Government: really, I do not have to explain that one, I simply refer to all of your comments on this thread... and before you ask me for quotes, you have fingers and a keyboard...and perhaps some intelligence....so help yourself.

Yes you do have to explain this!!!! WTF!?
Same thing here! You're accusing me of something I didn't do!! It's up to YOU to prove I did or said what you're accusing me of. As I stated before I NEVER ONCE suggested any of that stuff. If you think I did, then show me where I did!! If you don't, then it's obvious you're just lying again and why should anyone believe you?

Hello!! Are all the lights on upstairs Roth??

Current tally.......That's just weird, has stated more verifiable facts than Roth Joint. Roth has evaded more questions. Roth has made more accusations, and from my review of the thread, they are unjustified. Roth also seems to hurl more insults which leads nowhere.

OK ... Game back on.

On a side note regarding the CERN LHC. It looks like the damage I mentioned earlier, is less severe than Fermilab had led myself and others to believe. It is possible that reengineering and repairs will be completed in a shorter time frame. Fermilab will issue a report on this soon. As for Microsingularities, while possible, none of the scientists involved suggest they are likely or will occur any time soon. If one is detected, they have no facilities for maintaining them. Any microsingularity appearing in the LHC would evaporate in microseconds.

Thatsjustweird and Terapin: please do not try to turn this into a personal verbal fist fight in order to make the moderators shut down this thread. I will not allow that. So stay on topic please.

Originally posted by Terapin
Current tally.......That's just weird, has stated more verifiable facts than Roth Joint. Roth has evaded more questions. Roth has made more accusations, and from my review of the thread, they are unjustified. Roth also seems to hurl more insults which leads nowhere.

Show me, quote for quote and in comparison to thatsjustweird:

1. Where exactly am I hurling more insults than thatsjustweird. Exactly, how many more insults am I making in comparison to thatsjustweird?

2. Where exactly am I making more accusations than thatsjusweird. Exactly, how many more accusations am I making in comparison to thatsjustweird?

3. Where exactly does thatsjusweird states more verifiable facts than I do? Exactly, how many more facts has tjw made in comparison to the quantity of facts I have provided?


To thatsjustweird:

You are continually paraphrasing Titor incorrectly to fit your own views and you are exerting the same behavior to other members on this thread. Shame on you. :down: The few examples I picked below, speak for themselves:

Example 1:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
And you're partly right.
I forgot. The West was supposed to collapse in 2005.
Oops

You are twisting Titor’s words again…..as you are trying to twist facts…….Titor said Western stability would collapse in 2005…..and it indeed has……

Example 2:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Roth Joint

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Tell me Roth...what exactly have I twisted? I patiently await your answer....

Here’s a recent one:

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Also, Roth never changed what he said, he always said that the civil war began in 2004, by little waco events, like tasers and some other stuff we probably will know later.

Then you haven't read Roth's posts...

This is just one example of how you are trying to twist Vitchilo’s answer regarding…well…me! Your answer to Vitchilo is a good example of how you are trying to twist the truth and to make it look like Vitchilo isn’t giving the correct information about me.

Example 3:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
….. the part he most certainly remembered when looking back on that war with his memory from 2036…..

Again, he's not looking at this from his memory only. You keep saying that, again, to justify your views

JT about the start of the war:

I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.

Just another example of how you are twisting Titor’s words. Titor was answering a question about the Nuclear War and not the second US Civil War:

February 13, 2001 10:51
Question: What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can't remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!
John Titor: “I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.”

AND
November 21, 2000 10:41
”I know exactly where I was and every detail of the exact moment the first nuclear warheads began falling on Jacksonville.”

AND
February 15, 2001 17:06
“Suggesting there is a war coming is a bit different than saying avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on March 12, 2015.”

The rest of your post is just plain rubbish and a waste of time to go over it.

Example 4:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
No, it's Roth's.
He claims he has never heard of any one being shot down by police. lol

Not true.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Even worse, he claims more people have been killed by tasers than guns.

Not true either. That’s another 2 twists, will you never learn? Now please stop twisting my words thatsjustweird.

Let’s say it a bit clearer: In the past 3 years more defenseless, unarmed grandmothers, children, pregnant women, physically disabled and mentally disabled have been tortured, damaged and killed by taser, either in restraints, handcuffed or totally harmless then there are gunned down. And their number is growing.

Example 5:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Roth Joint

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
What he [Titor] does say is that by 2006 he has to leave the city because the fighting is so bad.

This is another lie of you. You are now downright lying without even using Titor's quotes, so I will do it for you, again, as always, as usual:
JT: "Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city."

So that was the true reason thatsjustweird. Nothing about fighting. All about what's happening nowadays. I urge you to read up about the activities of our federal ICE police agents.... www.ice.gov

Ofcourse you know of their activities.... That John Titor is a real bugger, isn't he?....

Example 6:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2. What happened at Waco? There was fighting. If there's no fighting then there is no way it would be classified as a civil war, civil conflict, or whatever. Saying there won't be fighting in this civil war is a bunch of nonsense you Titorites came up with.

Waco was all about US law enforcement against US civilians and their civil rights. Period. Furthermore, I can’t recall anyone saying there will be no fighting in this civil war. That’s just one of your own imaginative fictions, or to say it clearer, just one of your lies.

Back to Terapin:

Originally posted by Terapin
OK ... Game back on.

On a side note regarding the CERN LHC. It looks like the damage I mentioned earlier, is less severe than Fermilab had led myself and others to believe. It is possible that reengineering and repairs will be completed in a shorter time frame. Fermilab will issue a report on this soon.

Like I said, don’t make any assumptions to soon. I am more then happy you figured that out yourself now.

Originally posted by Terapin
As for Microsingularities, while possible, none of the scientists involved suggest they are likely or will occur any time soon. If one is detected, they have no facilities for maintaining them. Any microsingularity appearing in the LHC would evaporate in microseconds.

Again, I have to talk fatherly to you now: do not make any assumptions too soon…..

Greetings from the Easter Bunny!

Allow me to first laugh at everyone still participating in this thread.

Truly you are committed to your "work", rather it be bunking or debunking, or telling the truth.

I'll be honest, I've only read the last page, and thats all I want/need to see.

TJW was not acting out of line at all on this page as far as I can see. And the questions he did ask such as, to tell him what hes in denial of, and also, to show how the 2008 figure had been come to, were not answered by Roth. This is despite Roth having like umpteen replies quoting stuff, going into deep meanings in the reply, communicating by all means. So there is a noted deflection going on here, Roth has some problem answering simple questions? One more complaint Roth .. the terminology "I've already beaten" is awfully subjective.. there are no points here, and theres no beating here. Its discussing, if you feel your point answers his question, or even trumps his point, then thats a great point you have, but its not beating anything.

But I'm not against Roth. I actually think he may be onto something. I notice more and more shootings in the news everyday. Mall shootings, Amish shootings, more children being abducted and killed than usual, more stand-offs ending in the suspect being shot dead, more police goof-up's where the person is shot dead and is unarmed.

In most of these cases, its interestingly the citizen doing the killing, attempted killing, molestation, or whatever. Mall siege.. School siege, whatever. And as we get to see these citizens through various media, we get an impression that they are quite upset with themselves and the world and are just .. how can i put it.. 'really f$%&ed up people' with really botched minds and outlooks on themself and the world.

There have been a few reported cop killing unarmed people stories, but I wouldn't say its dramatically increasing. The main thing I've noticed to be dramatically increasing is domestic 'weirdos', meaning americans with serious mental problems, going off the ringer and shooting up entire public places until the cops come, then dying in a hail of gunfire or blowing their own brain out, as they had planned. Truly disturbing to say the least.

I could see a future domestic conflict between citizens and the government, however, and im just barely going to touch this because i have wrote treatise about this crap, the government would be in for it. heres why:

1) its' soldiers are citizens, and many will object to fighting, even joining the 'free citizens' or rebels.
2) its soldiers dont want to kill their own friends and brothers.
3) the militaries domestic installations are all intermingled within cities completely full of citizens. so very limited large aerial strikes.
4) the economy would hault, the congress would dissolve, and the governments war simply would have no popularity whatsoever.
5) the military will inevitably help the citizens overthrow the government, after mutiny against the highest military leadership, which would be in bed with the government in this scenario.

[edit on 4/6/2007 by runetang]

Roth, why did you just completely ignore my last post? So typical....


Anyway....

To thatsjustweird:

You are continually paraphrasing Titor incorrectly to fit your own views and you are exerting the same behavior to other members on this thread. Shame on you. :down: The few examples I picked below, speak for themselves

*yawn*
I've been showing you how YOU are the one who's been doing this throughout this thread so it's only logical you would accuse me of doing the same.
Let's take a look at your examples -

Ex. 1
This is a pathetic attempt by you to play on words. When Titor stated western stability collapsed what do you think he meant? Can you name one unstable country that would be considered uncollapsed?? This is just silly.
You never addressed that either. Or did so in your typical way. I asked you to show me which western countries have collapsed - if you want to be picky about it - name the western countries where stability has collapsed.

Ex. 2
This isn't in context and has nothing to do with Titor, nevertheless, what exactly have I twisted? I simply stated Vit hasn't read all your post which is obviously the case based on what he said. You have been changing the date of the civil war since you began in this thread 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2008 again, lol!!
Seriously though, I have absolutely no problems in being shown I was wrong or made a mistake, so here's your chance. You have never been clear about this issue. Here's your chance to be perfectly clear. Did the civil war (going by John Titor's definition of war) start in 2004?
If you believe it did then hey, I was wrong. But from reading all your posts, you haven't made that clear. Unless of course I just missed it.
Simple yes or no question Roth. Did the war start in 2004?

Ex. 3
Go back and read that whole discussion. Whether he was talking about the Civil War or nuclear war is irrelevant to what we were discussing. The point still stands. He lived through all of that AND was a historian. Your suggesting that Titor didn't mean what he said is ridiculous, unless Titor was just stupid or you believe Titor was wrong. So which is it?

Ex. 4
Aww man, I'm glad you brought that back up. That whole argument BY FAR showed us how far off the deep end you've gone. Wow.
And I didn't twist a thing buddy. Your quote was -

So far I haven’t heard of any innocent and defenseless US citizen shot to death by his/her officer of the law…. Not one! But tasered to death….. many!

Either you're blind, so obsessed with Titor that you ignore reality, or you're just plain not intelligent.
The whole Titor discussion should have ended right there for you as it's obvious you're not searching for the truth. You're only interested in trying to MAKE Titor right.

Ex. 5
*sigh*
Again, read the discussion in context. I addressed this already. So to make this brief:
As I stated on that page, in your quote, you cut off the first part of Titor's statement

When the civil conflict started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

Titor also states

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard.

Titor also states (just after the quote above so we're still dealing with the same time period)

Outright open fighting was common by then....

I remember you tried to twist this to make it seem like Titor was talking about 2011

Do you still believe that these statements are "Nothing about fighting"?

Ex. 6
Here's another chance for you to CLEARLY state what you mean. Going by your posts it's clear you don't think there will be any fighting until 2008 at the earliest. Titor stated that the war would start in 2004 and he described what he meant by war. So here's your chance Roth.
1. Was Titor wrong?
2. Is there fighting going on right now?
3. A. If not, when will it start?
B. If so, where? Titor stated that by next year it'll be on everyone's doorstep so which states are currently fighting the government (should be over half by now)?
4. Has any civil war in the history of the world gone 3 years without any fighting?

Originally posted by Roth Joint

Originally posted by Terapin
As for Microsingularities, while possible, none of the scientists involved suggest they are likely or will occur any time soon. If one is detected, they have no facilities for maintaining them. Any microsingularity appearing in the LHC would evaporate in microseconds.

Again, I have to talk fatherly to you now: do not make any assumptions too soon…..

I made no assumptions there. It was a statement of fact. The occurrence of microsingularities in the LHC are theoretically possible. If you go to both the CERN and the Fermilab web pages, they speak about microsingularities and the unlikeliness of their appearance in the LHC. You can also read the Blogs of many of the physicists working on the project regarding their views on the likely hood of observing a microsingularity in the LHC. The LHC is a particle accelerator and has no facility for the storage of a microsingularity. An unconfined micro singularity would evaporate in less than 10^27 seconds, due to hawking radiation. There is currently no known method of containing a microsingularity at the LHC based on the equipment installed. These statements are facts based on current data, not assumptions.

My "Tally" was based on personal observation. Personal observations are subject to interpretation. From my view, I have seen individuals change their claims based on the date at which they make them. Some have claimed that certain events would come to pass within certain dates. When that time passed, they made new claims with adjusted dates. There are other details and examples I could offer but there is no need. The thread speaks for itself and anyone can see the data.

Now, It is time for me to get my Tazer and zap a few folks on the other side of this civil war. I'm looking forward to a full blown war on my doorstep next year. I may even get a new welcome mat for my doorstep.

Originally posted by runetang
Allow me to first laugh at everyone still participating in this thread.

Truly you are committed to your "work", rather it be bunking or debunking, or telling the truth.

I'll be honest, I've only read the last page, and thats all I want/need to see.

TJW was not acting out of line at all on this page as far as I can see. And the questions he did ask such as, to tell him what hes in denial of, and also, to show how the 2008 figure had been come to, were not answered by Roth. This is despite Roth having like umpteen replies quoting stuff, going into deep meanings in the reply, communicating by all means. So there is a noted deflection going on here, Roth has some problem answering simple questions? One more complaint Roth .. the terminology "I've already beaten" is awfully subjective.. there are no points here, and theres no beating here. Its discussing, if you feel your point answers his question, or even trumps his point, then thats a great point you have, but its not beating anything.

Welcome runetang. I have some words of advice for you: If you haven’t read this whole thread, you simply can not even assert the slightest objective opinion on either me nor thatsjustweird. First read all content before you speak, otherwise your words are meaningless.

Originally posted by runetang
But I'm not against Roth.

Good. I am not against you either, I simply don’t know you (yet), but who knows, perhaps there’s a beautiful friendship waiting around the corner….

Originally posted by runetang
I actually think he may be onto something.

I most certainly am. The rest of your post is very interesting, so I would say, keep sharing your ideas with us.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth, why did you just completely ignore my last post? So typical....

Cut the crap tjw.

Ex. 1
You said: The West was supposed to collapse in 2005.
That wasn’t what Titor said. Titor was talking about Western stability. If Western stability collapses, that doesn’t mean the entire West collapses. Plain and simple.

Ex. 2
BS. You were trying to twist the truth and to make it look like Vitchilo wasn’t giving the correct information about me. Furthermore, I’ve never changed the date of the civil war and I repeatedly explained to you that from Titor’s viewpoint it all started in 2004/2005 since he mentions both years. I also explained to you repeatedly that Titor could never have meant it would be a full blown war in 2004/2005 as he clearly states: “I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.” Now that doesn’t sound like a sudden full blown civil war does it? Then he proceeds by saying: “The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012….” So somewhere between 2004/2005 and 2012 this conflict would grow worse. Also interesting is Titor using the words “Waco-type” and NOT Waco-like, therefore meaning it would be a growing conflict between the US Government/Law enforcement and it’s US civilians. And yes, Titor also said: “By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep.” So let’s wait and see how quick the events will have grown in 2008. Let’s wait and see what happens….

Ex. 3
Here you were trying to make it look like Titor knew the exact date of the civil war as if it suddenly broke out when you were using the quote: “I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.” The truth was that Titor referred to the Nuclear War. And the fact that Titor studied history and therefore realized the actual roots of the second American civil war could be traced back to 2004/2005 only strengthens his case.


Ex. 4
Here you stated I claimed I never heard of any one being shot down by police and more people have been killed by tasers than guns. Simply untrue. Regardless of how you are trying to work your way around your comments, they are distasteful and untruthful.


Ex. 5
Here you stated that Titor claimed he had to leave the city by 2006 because the fighting was so bad. This is simply not true. Nowhere did Titor say there was fighting going on:

John Titor
“When the civil conflict started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.”

Nothing about fighting. Titor first explains the people’s decisions when the civil conflict started and got worse. He then proceeds his father was already convinced to leave the city after his home was searched once and a neighbour across the street was arrested.

Apparently it was a very early decision from his father, since Titor also said:
“From the age of 8 to 12 [2006-2010], we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time [2010], it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined.”

You conveniently cut off the rest of the quote. It clearly shows that during the time period 2006-2010 the conflict between the federal police/national guard vs US civilians grew worse and it became very clear in 2010 they were not going back to what they had. Apparently they thought that would still be possible around 2006….. And yes, according to Titor, by 2010/2011 outright open fighting will be common, so there are very exciting times ahead of us…..

Ex. 6
You asked: 1. Was Titor wrong?
No.

You asked: 2. Is there fighting going on right now?
No

You asked: 3. A. If not, when will it start?
Apparently before the Summer Olympics, as Titor stated, they will be cancelled as a result of the many conflicts, however, it appears they may be revived in 2040.

You asked: B. If so, where?
Titor didn’t say where, so how can you expect me to answer that?

You asked: Titor stated that by next year it'll be on everyone's doorstep so which states are currently fighting the government (should be over half by now)?
As runetang observed sharply, things are changing rapidly and dramatically, so let’s wait and see what happens in about a year from now, ok?

You asked: 4. Has any civil war in the history of the world gone 3 years without any fighting?
It was very clear with regards to the first American civil war: the first shots of the American Civil War were fired at Fort Sumter by the Confederacy at 04:30 on April 12, 1861.

However, according to Titor it will not be so clear with regards to the second American civil war. We will grow into it. Remember Titor said: “I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.” Waco type behavior of our officers of the law is indeed getting worse.

The increasing taser-related deaths, as well as the many deadly gun incidents follow the criteria of a "Waco-type event" as mentioned by John Titor. Remember what Waco was about: Titor mentioned WACO because of the method of action, the misbehavior of law enforcement. Not because of the huge media attention. Not because of the great fire. But because of the METHODS being used upon the American citizens.

Waco was about:

1) People were dying a cruel and unnecessary death by the hand of their own officers of the law while their deaths should have been avoided and while their voices and pleas haven't been listened to.

2) The law enforcement officers responsible for their deaths were cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."

3) Authorities spreading disinformation regarding the incident to the mass media.

John Titor
"Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?"

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Ex. 1
You said: The West was supposed to collapse in 2005.
That wasn’t what Titor said. Titor was talking about Western stability. If Western stability collapses, that doesn’t mean the entire West collapses. Plain and simple.

Then by all means tell us what that means Roth. And since it's "plain and simple" you should be able to answer my request with no probs. Show me where the stability of any country or region collapsed yet the country or region didn't.

Ex. 2
BS. You were trying to twist the truth and to make it look like Vitchilo wasn’t giving the correct information about me. Furthermore, I’ve never changed the date of the civil war and I repeatedly explained to you that from Titor’s viewpoint it all started in 2004/2005 since he mentions both years.

I could have sworn I asked you.
Did the Civil War start in 2004? I'm asking you. I know what Titor said.

I also explained to you repeatedly that Titor could never have meant it would be a full blown war in 2004/2005 as he clearly states: “I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.” Now that doesn’t sound like a sudden full blown civil war does it?

Again, I know what Titor stated. I never stated it would start out as a full blown war. But Titor did state that the war would start in 2004 and he described what he meant by "war"
Also 2004 was 3 years ago. Let's look at your health, if your health is steadily getting worse, in three years you WILL be in bad shape.

Let’s wait and see what happens….

How much longer are you going to wait? You've been waiting 3 year already....

Ex. 3
Here you were trying to make it look like Titor knew the exact date of the civil war as if it suddenly broke out

What makes you think Titor doesn't know when that occurred???
Whether it was gradual or sudden Titor knows exactly when the first shots range out so to speak.

Ex. 4
Here you stated I claimed I never heard of any one being shot down by police and more people have been killed by tasers than guns. Simply untrue. Regardless of how you are trying to work your way around your comments, they are distasteful and untruthful.

Dude, I posted your quote......I'll post it again

So far I haven’t heard of any innocent and defenseless US citizen shot to death by his/her officer of the law…. Not one! But tasered to death….. many!

This is YOUR quote. I didn't change a thing or twist a thing. If your quote is true, then you are blind and again, not searching for the truth.

Ex. 5
Here you stated that Titor claimed he had to leave the city by 2006 because the fighting was so bad. This is simply not true. Nowhere did Titor say there was fighting going on:

Ok genius.
Give me examples of civil conflict (as defined by Titor and the world) where no fighting was going on.

Apparently it was a very early decision from his father, since Titor also said:
“From the age of 8 to 12 [2006-2010], we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time [2010], it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined.”

There you go again. When Titor says "by that time" he's talking about from when he was 8-12. You're sitting here making it seem like he was talking about 2010
What a maroon.
And there's that conflict word again. If conflict doesn't meaning fighting, the please tell the world Roth what it really means.

You conveniently cut off the rest of the quote. It clearly shows that during the time period 2006-2010 the conflict between the federal police/national guard vs US civilians grew worse and it became very clear in 2010 they were not going back to what they had.

wtf are you talking about? I didn't cut off anything! lmao!! I wanted you to see that part!!
And there you go again, shifting things to 2010 now

Apparently they thought that would still be possible around 2006….. And yes, according to Titor, by 2010/2011 outright open fighting will be common, so there are very exciting times ahead of us…..

Wait, now you're shifting it to 2010/2011! lol
Titor states that when he's talking about the 2006-2010 period buddy. Nice try though.

Ex. 6
You asked: 1. Was Titor wrong?
No.

So the Civil War according to YOU started in 2004. Got it!

You asked: 2. Is there fighting going on right now?
No

And according to you the war started in 2004, but has gone almost 4 years without any fighting! This is the first time in world history this has happened.....if it were possible.

You asked: 3. A. If not, when will it start?
Apparently before the Summer Olympics, as Titor stated, they will be cancelled as a result of the many conflicts, however, it appears they may be revived in 2040.

lol

You asked: B. If so, where?
Titor didn’t say where, so how can you expect me to answer that?

This question was for if you thought the fighting had started already

As runetang observed sharply, things are changing rapidly and dramatically, so let’s wait and see what happens in about a year from now, ok?

Again, why would we have to wait a year? This war has been going on for three years and has gotten worse right? At least 2/3rds of the states should be seeing conflicts now if it is to spread across the US by next year.

You asked: 4. Has any civil war in the history of the world gone 3 years without any fighting?
It was very clear with regards to the first American civil war: the first shots of the American Civil War were fired at Fort Sumter by the Confederacy at 04:30 on April 12, 1861.

However, according to Titor it will not be so clear with regards to the second American civil war.

This is based on your limited comprehension of what Titor wrote, not what Titor stated.

We will grow into it. Remember Titor said: “I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.”

Yes so there should be AT LEAST 39 events now that have gotten worse and worse.
As I've stated before, anything less than a Waco type event wouldn't cause a Civil War in a third world nation let alone the world's only superpower.

Waco type behavior of our officers of the law is indeed getting worse.

1. You have any proof of this?
2. Titor didn't state behavior, he stated event. So where are these 39 events?

The increasing taser-related deaths, as well as the many deadly gun incidents follow the criteria of a "Waco-type event" as mentioned by John Titor.

NO THEY DON'T!!! One would have to be a complete fool to believe that!
Comparing shooting criminals with tasers or guns to what happened at Waco is beyond ridiculous. Also, these were going on WAY before Waco. If they were going to lead to a Civil War, it would have happened YEARS ago and Titor would have just compared those events to his civil war, not Waco. And as I just stated, that stuff wouldn't cause a civil war in a third world nation, why on God's green earth would anyone believe it would cause one in the U.S.??

Remember what Waco was about: Titor mentioned WACO because of the method of action, the misbehavior of law enforcement.

Where are you getting this from?????
Titor mentioned Waco because he was describing the Civil War!

Someone getting Tazed, is nothing like the incident at Waco. Several unrelated Tazings, are nothing like Waco. Having the National Guard Taze an entire university class would be something like Waco, only much smaller, and less significant. Where are the "worse every month" events?

(I got Tazed, no big deal. Kind of interesting once it was over. Getting tear gassed was far worse, but that was back in the late 70's)

i must step in and say the "yes" TJW twists words and adds words to try to manipulate a view point. this behavior cuases a major problem, forcing us to address his distortion, or forever have the deception cuase more problems later. much of what Roth is doing is trying to clean up the mess TJW creates.

ill present an example; its a run in i had with TJW. the context being civilization(civilized) and its comparison to previous centuries. it is vaguely tied to the titor case, but the point is to illustrate the type of tactic TJW utilizes.

myself

TJW
Civilized
- Having a highly developed society and culture.
- Having a high state of culture and development both social and technological
- Having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.

i agree but with minor edits>

Civilized
- Having a developed society and culture.
- Having a state of culture and development both social and technological
- Having a humane culture, society, etc.

it does not take a highly or advanced anything to warrant being classed civilized.

you should be able to tell what kind of argument TJW is trying to support. [if not ill outline] he suggests that we are superior to previous centuries in terms of civility. i however support the perspective that we are indeed very similar with past centuries.

i directly addressed his manipulation, and apon that, he promptly dropped the argument.

as can be seen this is hardly worth the effort of quoting(am i right). but this is the nature of TJW twists, and wanting to find these moment is foolish, luckily this was only 4 pages back.

but its this kind of subtlety TJW uses to subvert the data.

now i want to make this clear i am not discrediting/bashing TJW in any way. he/she is entitled to his/her opinion, and in some case i look forward to his/her response. TJW has minor communication hic-ups now and then, which unfortunately lead everyone far off topic.

**************************************

as for the request to show why we look to 2008 over 2004 as a significant date of the conflict, ill re state that which has been provided many times(yes-many times).

Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense. Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and its offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the Middle East is a part of what's to come, not the cause.

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004.

in my mind the words "will start" is more significant as a statement of hindsight.

I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

i see this as a method to conveniently group all the incidents that are going to happen.

By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep.

this is self explanatory

The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over.

this can swing many ways- 2 of which im aware of; TJW version, and the canon of titors believers.

1 TJW believes that if titor is real this quote is reffering to all the people involved in the civil war, and there realization that this war isnt going to go away. becuase the've been fighting for 4 years now.

2 the general population will realise that the media's version of reality theve been fed for years is an entire fruad. this realization occurs when the "war" spills onto thier front lawns.


from my perspective 2008 will have more of an effect on this country than the cliams of 2004's will. and by titors claims it appears that what he tried to convey.


TJW plz do not make claims that you are presenting evidence/claims, becuase you are not. and no one should say you are doing this, because that proves they are not following anything going on here.


all of which that has been asked of Roth he has givin. i know becuase ive read his responses. where these responses are exactly, i dont know.

but ATS keeps a history of all our posts for a reason, use this feature.



[edit on 7/4/07 by Glyph_D]

I addressed this as best I could (as it really doesn't make sense). And here we are. I'm still waiting for you to plainly list the things you think I'm in denial of.

Perhaps you don't know what denial means?
That's the only thing I can think of as to why you won't answer such a simple request....

Perhaps you need another pair of prescription glasses.

I'll help you out a bit.
All you have to do is fill in the blank

Thatsjustweird is in denial of/that _______________

Do I really have to fill in the blank.

How many times do you want me to repeat the answer?
I am not syrinx high priest