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Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

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posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: beetee

You are more than welcome for honing in on the "heart of the issue".

I'm probably not in the position to ask, but did you buy one of those studies for around $30 or is this about this "Navy decoy" right in the open on google patents? How far did you go to track down the "Bollocks"?

It's a lot of journals promoting this material for hard earned cash, ya know. Just out of curiosity, because that's the first argument I would have to deal with if I was making that point, you're fully aware what kind of infrastructure this would need to fly? What's worse in your view, a black budget space force or a disinfo campaign that literally unmade academia? Probably the latter?
Which brings me to Ockhams Razor arguing for the space force as the more simple solution. WTF is happening? Did I just write that sentence?!? That's hilarious!



Aaanyhow. There's a few good articles on the general problems with the process of peer review but this is more of a roundhouse jumpkick, hence my skepticism. You get the drift. So... is there a similar case you had in mind, which could explain why you would rather say integrity went down the gutter on an epic scale? Could you point me to an example that illustrates your lack of trust regarding said journals? At this point any promoted fake study will do the trick.
I'm just a layman who can't believe what he's reading, nor what he's writing in response, even if it does make some sense for now. How far did you track down this problem in academia?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for blowing my mind. Fun times! I've got places to be and things to do now, but I'll come back to this asap. Picture me hanging at your lips, because I am. Kinda sad I can't keep an eye on your eye-movement tho... your solution is way too elegant (hello GCHQ slides!) not to have both of my eyebrows raised.





posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 12:26 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion



Could you point me to an example that illustrates your lack of trust regarding said journals? At this point any promoted fake study will do the trick. 


I think mirageman have pointed to a previous debacle where some researchers used a computer program to auto generate articles in the same online, supposedly peer reviewed, journal that the Navy scientist published his work on superconductors. It is in thread, I believe.

For a more general starting point, with regards to problems with the peer review process, maybe the following article is a good one:

The Atlantic Article on Fake Peer Reviewed Science

While I still believe peer review can be a great tool, I have come to doubt that it is any kind of rubber stamp on the quality of the science.

My main point, however, is that the various government agencies that seem to meddle in the field of ufology, may have little real interest in getting to the bottom of the mystery, if any. They may have more mundane motives, and we need to be aware of this always.

We have struggled for a few years now to try to get a handle on what the purpose of the TDL thing really is, and although there are many possible reasons for the shenanigans, I have no more faith that getting answers and being honest about UFOs is even a part of it.

Sad, but that is my conclusion.
edit on 18-2-2020 by beetee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
But recently a charm offensive has been launched, and the likes of Lt. Tim become the chosen one to receive documents no one else outside of BAASS and government has seen. Why it has to be now and not two years ago I don't know? Maybe Knapp threw out his sofa and lost his copy?


Is Lt. Tim the NEW Curious George?

It seems his own UFO experience eight years ago sparked his general interest in ufology, and after years of writing about social and political topics as a freelance journalist, the spring of 2019 was a turning point. As he explained in a fascinating Reddit AMA two months ago:


In spring of this year, I became frustrated by what I felt was a lack of legitimate mainstream investigative journalism on the UFO subject and I decided to try and do what I could to fill that gap. So, this past summer, (through my wife’s employer) my family and I moved to Germany, which has allowed me to dedicate myself to working full time as an investigative journalist covering the UFO subject for mainstream media outlets...

In the course of my work, I’ve interviewed or spoken with a great number of the “major players” in the UFO field... I'm very dedicated to giving honest and genuine information, and wont sensationalize anything just because I think people want to hear it or it will make me popular.


Regarding TTSA, he is frank about what we can expect:


I've spoken in-depth with Chris Mellon, Lue Elizondo, amongst many others. I will say if people are waiting for TTSA to bring about some big "disclosure" or reveal, they're likely going to be very disappointed. That's NOT a knock against TTSA, rather, I've seen no evidence in behind the scenes conversations that leads me to believe they have any grand evidence to reveal that will be earth shattering.


McMillan's frankness in that regard is quite refreshing if he is being prepped as a 'new Knapp'. The same applies to his views on Tricky Dicky Doty whose much-hyped personal NM police file was a damp squib due to FOIA refusing to allow any 'negative' documents (including complaints). Nevertheless, McMillan was willing to admit:


I spoke to Rick Doty just a few times after I got his file, however, the moment he lied to me, I stopped communicating with him. I'm not going to waste my time and I don't think the public should waste their time with liars and charlatans.


McMillan is also sceptical about Bob Lazar and is not impressed with Knapp's original approach to the story:


After really digging into his case, when it comes down to the balance of evidence that supports or refutes Lazar's story, the overwhelming preponderance of evidence suggest Lazar's claims are untrue nor did he ever work at Area-51 in any capacity. Unless further supportive evidence emerges, that is my personal and professional opinion regarding Lazar and his claims. Which, I'll tell you, this is the first time I've ever publicly said that.

By nothing more than his own words, which he's shared for 30 years, Mr. Knapp put a man on the news with a remarkable claim that he had never vetted. It would be a year later, in 1990, when he's roaming around Las Alamos, etc.? I'll let a reader make their own conclusions...


As for Jeremy Corbell:


I would not consider his "investigative" work to be very diligent nor objective. Equally, I would say that he often conveniently fails to thoroughly examine information that could contradict his intended results.


Oo-er.


The question is, as a newcomer to the field, will he ask the difficult, penetrating questions that old-timers like Greenwald and Knapp have failed to? At the moment, after a wobbly start and some suspicions about his motivations (as we know, suspicion is rife within modern ufology!), I have tentatively warmed to Lt. Tim, and it will be interesting to see how far he can dig without becoming compromised in some way.

When Susan Gough replies to his latest article, perhaps new ground will be broken. Or perhaps not. It could be a long wait.



posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit


I have tentatively warmed to Lt. Tim, 


Argh thats nice CB. I cant say have that fuzzy feeling yet toward Lt. Tim, but there is time.




posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 03:22 PM
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All these new reporters going into ufology is interesting.

The thing about ufology is that one needs first what I would call seasoning on the topic or even the most hardened reporters can be deceived.


When one first reads or hears about its culture and the events surrounding it that makes it interesting one can get a naïve view of ufology.


They haven’t been through the crazies, cranks and the government-connected shysters, scammers and disinformation characters that litter the profession, and haven’t absorbed mentally a lot of the stories within ufology, therefore, might lack critical analytical skills in context.

This is what sounds to me what may have happened to brother Tim. He is being told things by veterans that aren’t too truthful, IMO.

Of course, some might say the veterans of ufology can become cynical rather than skeptical

That’s possible

So, one can know too much or too little. I’ll take the too much.



posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit



I've spoken in-depth with Chris Mellon, Lue Elizondo, amongst many others. I will say if people are waiting for TTSA to bring about some big "disclosure" or reveal, they're likely going to be very disappointed. That's NOT a knock against TTSA, rather, I've seen no evidence in behind the scenes conversations that leads me to believe they have any grand evidence to reveal that will be earth shattering.


But he lacks context.

Such as considering TDL running around like he did saying what he did before the coming-out party of TTSA...and the history of some of those characters in the group.

That’s the point I make in my previous post



posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Maybe Lt. Tim is the new Linda Moulton Howe. But he doesn't know it yet as yet because he does not Blink 182 time a minute (yet!!!)...



Zondo is far too honest to be another Doty surely?



posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Willtell

Maybe Lt. Tim is the new Linda Moulton Howe. But he doesn't know it yet as yet because he does not Blink 182 time a minute (yet!!!)...



Zondo is far too honest to be another Doty surely?



Whatever Zondo turns out to be he is George Washington compared to Doty!



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 01:32 AM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Willtell

Maybe Lt. Tim is the new Linda Moulton Howe. But he doesn't know it yet




Got you there MM,



TM - It was a big report that was handed over. Impressive. No one section provided information in depth. Each section presented broad views. There were a couple of photographs. Most impressive one was a fairly close up black and white shot from Brazilian or Peruvian government.

JG - Had you seen that photo before?

TM - I've never seen it before, but I'm not a UFOlogist. There were mentions of relationships between BAASS and foreign governments. These were detailed notes about they had a good collection process. Data coming from MUFON etc. I reached out to Mike West about data aspects. I assume that BAASS/Bigelow Aerospace still has the data


Transcript from greenwalds interview with him,its on yt. Since JG cant be arsed to answer questions i wont be arsed to link to his stuff
but heres a link to Keith Basterfields site



There was also this interesting post by Ericu Lukes



Tim, you met with Chris and me in Trier at a small café on December 19, 2019, for several hours. During that meeting, you proposed several theories as they pertain to Skinwalker Ranch, AAWSAP and human experimentation (“non-lethal” weapons). As a matter of fact, you asked us to meet with you in order to exchange information regarding different technologies that you believe may have been tested, and the possible effects on the human brain & tissue.



With Tim responding





Which is kinda embarassing for Ericu imo



Theres also another interview with Bruce Maccabee tim mcmillan and micah hanks on Gralien



On this special edition of The Micah Hanks Program, after opening news pertaining to astronomy and the search by scientists for extraterrestrial life, we are joined by freelance investigative reporter Lt. Tim McMillan, who recently published an article in Popular Mechanics which gives us the most complete perspective to-date of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), a mysterious Pentagon program that studied unexplained aerial phenomena. McMillan gives us new details about the program’s former director, Luis Elizondo, and his involvement with the Pentagon effort to study UAP, as well as the role of Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), which had been subcontracted for the study. More importantly, McMillan explains why much of what the program entailed has been kept off-the-books and had been intended to remain that way.

Then in hour two, we are joined by a pioneer in the field of UFO research, Bruce Maccabee Ph.D., a physicist and researcher whose investigations into UFOs began in the 1960s. Over the ensuing decades, he worked not only to apply science to UFO investigations, but also in appealing to the government for information it has on the topic of unidentified flying objects. This led to Maccabee’s acquisition of FBI files, popularly known as the Bureau’s “Flying Saucer File”, which Maccabee calls “The Real X-Files.”



Cant give more info on the gralien podcast as im currently listening to it,If anything interesting is said i will post it here


So what have we got so far, an attempt to bring back the alien autopsy, an attempt to bring back in vogue skinny bob, an attempt so stir up again skinwalker ranch, an attempt to stir up again roswell and also the Mj12 documents. Coincidence? Dont think so NExt up will be the caret drones
edit on 19-2-2020 by IMSAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 02:28 AM
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a reply to: IMSAM


Coincidence? Dont think so NExt up will be the caret drones 


Oh what fun.




posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: beetee

Apologies in case my questions were too much, and thanks again for having a frank talk about this. I see a problem with my previous stance (which seems to be yours as well), and I had to wrap my head around your perspective to make sure I don't miss anything.

We're obviously both at the end of our search machines, any further research would require legwork and funds to operate effectively. Both theories have their pro's and con's, and we all know how science works: it's a business, there will be no extensive research without some form of funding.

The Gubbermint operates differently, they effectively control the markets with policies like QE. Hence I can't say corruption within various administrations would be equally bad as corruption withing the (more or less) dependent workforce. That's an important distinction to be made.
No matter how we dice it, black budget space force or disinfo campaign, the origins of said corruption are the same. No peer review faking scientist with half a spine does this to mess with the core principles of academia, they will be pressured to do so in one form or another. The "Dotyfied" victims in this scenario.

Why?!? Why oh why did you gloss over this without blinking 182 times? WTF am I missing here? This is about rooting out corruption, innit? Let's try to ignore the fruits and focus on digging out the roots then?

*pokes his brother in a space suit with a blunt stick*





posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Lt. Tim may be the swellest guy ever to get a byline but as we have seen throughout the history of UFOlogy (which began before all of us were born presumably) even the best intentioned journalists and investigators get lost in the fun house maze and never find their way back out.

You quote him from that AMA saying that after speaking with notable rich guy Chris Mellon and mysterious man of action Lue Zondo, Lt. Tim does not think disclosure is the end game here.

But what he does not say is what he thinks the end game really is. Which means he is either not sure or that he has been told what this end game is and has also been told that he cannot reveal this until a later date at which time he will get the byline and all the glory.

But just ask George Knapp how that works. You play the game for years (maybe even decades) and end up reading about it in the New York Times just like everybody else.

If Lt. Tim wanted to help he would just spill everything he knows because UFO Journalism does not work like regular journalism. There is no payoff for protecting your sources and holding on to information until a later date. That later date never comes. You will get burned.

The only people who really benefit from the UFO Machine are the deluded insiders who are desperate to prove it is all true, the manipulative counter intelligence officers who toy with them and the cynical media personalities who cash in on propping up 75 years of lies and distortions with sensational documentaries and TV series.

Break the cycle Tim! There is no pot of glory at the end of this hologram rainbow. Burn your sources, reveal what you know and don't look back!






edit on 19-2-2020 by coursecatalog because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-2-2020 by coursecatalog because: Bill Moore is allegedly working somewhere as a janitor.



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Hehe. We will just have to keep asking the awkward questions, for whatever it is worth, I guess.

I suppose if it is repeated often enough, that the Emperor is scantily clad, someone might notice.

I was thinking about this new attempt to bring the subject of UFOs into the more mainstream from the perspective of black budget stuff. And it struck me that it makes sense to keep the "mystery" greyzone ridiculous and fringe as long as you are the only one that have the assets that can use it for cover.

The moment other forces have similar capabilities, such a strategy will quickly bite you on the ass the moment these other forces deploy their assets against you. Then, perhaps, you would indeed rush to bring the topic in from the cold. This has, by the way, been stated by Elizondo multiple times as a known concern.

As to what goes on in space, I am very much convinced that the US Military has quietly been doing far more than launching satellites in space. It is the ultimate high ground, after all, and this has been known for a long time.
edit on 19-2-2020 by beetee because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 11:10 AM
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I think some aspects of the article are interesting and questions need to be asked...

"Who" the source was, is an interesting question o think. I wouldn't have thought it would be any of the known old NIDS / BAASS guys. Mostly because of contracts and NDAS they have signed that legally they cannot break; unless someone was acting on their behalf under their instructions?

How exactly did that 10 month report make its way out of Bigelow Aerospace? Who had copies? Was it only kept under lock and key in Bigelows offices? Did all the contractors in this intelligence operation have copies?

Why - was this report allowed to be leaked and if so, what's in it for them? Who is benefitting from this paper being out there?

I mentioned "intelligence operation" that's what this is...

edit on p061238202400 by pigsy2400 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: pigsy2400
Who is benefitting from this paper being out there?


The most intriguing question of all, Pigsy. What on earth could the motivation be? I'm sure Zondo's over the moon about this source.

Has Tim already been played like a grand piano, used to puff up TTSA's flailing trajectory and UFOtainment in general?



originally posted by: coursecatalog
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Lt. Tim may be the swellest guy ever to get a byline but as we have seen throughout the history of UFOlogy (which began before all of us were born presumably) even the best intentioned journalists and investigators get lost in the fun house maze and never find their way back out.


Oh, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before Lt Tim is compromised. He's still a rather green newcomer to this circus, which probably turned Mellon & Zondo into a couple of salivating Wile E. Coyotes when they first met him!

The AMA was two months ago; a lot can happen in that time. Has he been told the end game? My instinct during his latest interview with Greenewald is that he knows diddly-squat in that regard, although it was amusing to hear Greenewald sum all this up by declaring he doesn't know WHAT to believe anymore, sounding very befuddled.



Break the cycle Tim! There is no pot of glory at the end of this hologram rainbow. Burn your sources, reveal what you know and don't look back!


If only, eh?


As surprisingly forthright as he has been about Doty, Lazar, Knapp and Corbell (including an odd mini-spat with Young Gun science darling Deep Prasad about who has spoken to Mellon & Co the most), I sadly don't think he has the bottle, and may simply be too 'nice a guy' to shake TTSA and associated birdcages down to their foundations. Folks like Doctor Green will probably charm him into submission.

At least he now lives far enough away from these people - which must be a plus he can exploit in some fashion, but I suspect he'll be winding his neck in as the months go by.



edit on 19-2-2020 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 12:56 PM
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I don’t think there is a story at TTSA other than the one everyone has already done.
Maybe the kind of story that was in the Intercept a while back.
Other than there will be a story when people realize that the great expectations are not going to be fulfilled.

Almost three years and what do we have: Three books, the Nimitz, a deal with the army, CREDA, 35 grand to Linda Howe (good for her) for a rock and something related called ADAM.

Maybe from their perspective, it looks like great progress.

The point is that they raised expectations high and haven’t remotely lived up to those expectations.

There is nothing that points to the Ufo mystery being solved. As there seems to be no disclosure in sight.

We are at square one.



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
and something related called ADAM.


Or to give it its full name: "The ADAM Research Project".

As opposed to how it was worded for the SERPO scam: "Project ADAM"... a revelation that recently led to a:



As far as we know, TTSA and all their tedious junk may be nothing more than a sophisticated alternative re-run of SERPO. As well as a Scientologist's wet dream; I'm sure grade-1 Hubbardians like the Hoffmeister are writhing in ecstasy.

The Church of Scientology itself has often been compared to an intelligence agency. Has the motive for the 'To The Stars academy' really been so obviously under our noses since 2017...?




edit on 19-2-2020 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit


Serpo, I don’t see the connections. Can you give me your Serpo/TTSA rundown?

Serpo was a pure hoax and some of the guys in TTSA were involved, sure, but I don’t see TTSA being a Serpo type affair. At least not yet.

I think it’s a Bennewitz caper, as I pointed out earlier

Some have said it’s a repeat of the Joe Firmage organization.

Maybe it’s a stew of things...a UFO stew.



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I don't think it's another incarnation of SERPO. But I think there are unanswered questions that no one ever asks. The ufotainers don't even think about it and the professional journalists seem to just ignore it.

Go all the way back over two years to the opening words of my original post....



“I’ve been a researcher and student of UFOs for many, many years. Anybody that does research, if people bother to do quality research, comes away absolutely convinced. You don’t have to have personal encounters...People have been killed. People have been hurt. It’s more than observational kind of data..."

Robert Bigelow – New York Times June 7th 2010


Then we have the Experiencer Studies where it was claimed:


.....one hundred plus patients were military personnel or from aerospace industries. Their own search for treatment had been exhausted with little or no positive results from regular doctors.... Dr. Green worked on diagnosis from virtually nothing. He based his hypothesis on patients being exposed to some form of black ops technology such as Non-Lethal Weaponry, Holograms, Cloaking technology and drones. Brain scans, blood, DNA and endocrine tests were made.

However one highly disturbing finding mentioned by Dr. Green is that:

Twenty five percent of my patients die within five to seven years of my diagnosis, and I have no idea of how any programs I knew about years ago can do these things”

Source : Dr. Green via the book 'Phenomenon' by Annie Jacobsen




Suddenly, seemingly accompanying Lt. Tim's article, this document written in May 2009 Clinical Medical Acute & Subacute Field Effects on Human Dermal & Neurological Tissues turns up. Produced a few months before the AASWAP contract was awarded. And a year before Bigelow made his claim to the NY Times quoted above.

More recently we've had guards from the Ranch claiming they were subjected to tests including MRI scans.

And of course the three stooges on TTSA's advisory board. Who no one asks about but deal in things related to the above. Including an attorney!



Now what is ufology really being used for here?

Are aliens from outerspace zapping and injuring people?

Kit Green states quite clearly (for once) in the paper that:



In summary, the evidence is solid that the military and aerospace industries’ own classified, proprietary and unclassified literature, as well as the certain evidence of many aerospace RF-related microwave, antenna-related, High-Power (HP) microwave, infrasonic/sonic, and thermal (from any source) energy deposition accidents (vide infra) is congruent with the anomalous vehicle reports. This means that one cannot discount the claimed and often observed imagery of being real-world (although current and likely advanced beyond public information) technologies, and which are causes of these effects and injuries.

(Page 18.)


Information keeps leaking out that whatever was being studied was harmful and has injured people. Mainly from the military and aerospace industries allegedly exposed to unidentified aerial phenomena.

So is ET doing this? Or something more down to Earth?





edit on 19/2/2020 by mirageman because: typo



posted on Feb, 19 2020 @ 06:01 PM
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a reply to: mirageman


So, according to the Jacobson quote Green is treating victims of some kind of weird energy attacks or exposure.

Of course, it's vital to know whether this is from an attack or mere accidental exposure




black ops technology such as Non-Lethal Weaponry, Holograms, Cloaking technology and drones. Brain scans, blood, DNA and endocrine tests were made.


You know, it's really impossible to trust a government or a government-connected group as we discuss here... Although I won't say their( US IC-GOV and RELATED people) the devil incarnate, but their track record is just too filled with sinister activities to ever be able to fully trust.



Your points are well taken and understood. Something seems to be going on not too kosher or halal.

What always made me cringe was TDL's staement...to paraphrase, " the government are good guys if you only knew."

Well, it looks like we'll never know.




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