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Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

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posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 12:22 AM
Forgive the length

Some thoughts

I really think this can all be reduced to Bigelow being paid back by the government for his pilfering the Mufon database.

And that all of this together is a continuation of the Bennewitz disinformation plot

It’s all legal but the lore behind it is suspicious: some guy from the DIA saw something at the ranch and wanted to subsequently investigate it.
Sounds like TDLs “we saw a life form”

I would examine when Bigelow and the NIDS started their SKR investigations, which I believe was way before the 2008 program where he got that money.

Also, reading the AWWSAP directives, it is vague enough to basically be a BS program, a boondoggle.

“primary focus is on breakthrough technologies and applications that create discontinuities in currently evolving technology trends. The focus is not on extrapolations of current aerospace technology.”

It sounds like all BS to me just to sound important but it’s not really important.

All of these things mentioned in it are and wouldn’t be under the auspices of a group like BASS IMO.

Also, there is little mention of anything about UFOs or UAPs. As the PM writer notes.

IMO, this is all about Reid, a powerful US senator, getting with the Army to pay back Bigelow for his services rendered in the past.
The above, IMO, is just another instance of what is all rigged-up nonsense just to get money to somebody

The reporter says:

The evidence collected here overwhelmingly suggests the government was indeed studying UFOs and not, as the Pentagon has said, “investigating foreign advanced aerospace weapons system applications with future technology projections over the next 40 years, and to create a center of expertise on advanced aerospace technologies.”

So, where’s the beef. Where is this proof other than what Zondo says?

Here’s is his proof:

On July 2009, BAASS provided a comprehensive report to the DIA at the conclusion of the first-year option of the AAWSAP contract. The 494-page “Ten Month Report,” as it’s called, is chock full of strategic plans, project summaries, data tables, charts, descriptions of biological field effects, physical characteristics, methods of detection, theoretical capabilities, witness interviews, photographs, and case synopses—each one entirely, explicitly about unexplained aerial phenomena.

In what context is this true? And where are the cases identified?

He quotes all this stuff, which I say is bogus made-up reports by people doing this for Bigelow for years already.

Here's more

● Overview of the BAASS Physics Division’s efforts to conduct research on advanced aerospace vehicles, including the development of standardization for measurement of physical effects and signatures associated with UAP.
● Overview of BAASS research for measuring and gleaning the effects on biological organisms from UAP.
● Mention of Skinwalker Ranch in Utah as a “possible laboratory for studying other intelligences and possible interdimensional phenomena.”
● Strategic plans to organize a series of intellectual debate forums targeted to broad audiences pertaining to the “potential disclosure of an extraterrestrial presence.”
● Plans to create a “medical physiological UAP effects program.”
● Request for Project Blue Book files that have not been made public.
● Mention of BAASS program dubbed “Project Northern Tier,” which involved securing documents related to instances where dozens of UFOs flew over restricted airspaces of facilities housing nuclear weapons.

If you’ll notice none of this stuff is asked for in the AWWSAP directives.
Also, where are these “advanced aerospace vehicles”?

Here’s more

● A possible UAP landing reported to BAASS by the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and its STAR Team (rapid response field investigators funded by BAASS in March 2009).
● Project databases of UAP-related materials compiled through various partnerships, and the intent to expand these databases by coordinating with foreign governments.
● Summaries of multiple UAP events both inside the U.S. and in foreign countries.
● Photographs of UAPs provided by various sources, including foreign governments.

So, this inexperienced in Ufology writer from PM doesn’t realize THIS IS THE SAME OLD STUFF.



I could go on and on and display how this writer was being manipulated.
He doesn’t seem to really understand this stuff comes from NIDS and that old Bigelow research clique.
Its Bigelow’s research NOT the US government. Bigelow’s research was not considered US government that’s why they can say ATTIP and AWWSAP had nothing to do with UFOS from the government perspective.

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 12:25 AM
Now, he spins this that it’s the same old government hiding a black program.
These guys are hiding behind the old story of claiming the government is covering up again. Covering up what? They’ve had these investigations for decades.


Here’s some more double talk:

According to several former AATIP contractors, the “product” being produced for the DIA was technical reports on exotic and potential “game-changing” aerospace technologies, and the manner of determining what areas these radical airborne breakthroughs might emerge was through the research of UFOs.

What exactly does that mean?
Researching something, as the rapper MC Hammer used to say, “you can’t touch this”?

How can they research UAPs they can’t even keep up with? This goes on and on and he is told this is how black budget get done.
That’s pure unadulterated BS and disinformation.

Some flimsy 22-million-dollar program? Already done and ready to ship in some reports out to the DOD by Bigelow IS NOT A BLACK PROGRAM.

Have we not forgotten it’s not a secret!
I think this is all disinformation. ALL OF IT!

They want to pretend a black program was revealed to us. This flimsy ATTIP/AWWSAP deal.


TTSA is the new Bennewitz disinformation program Part II

TDL= Bennewitz

Zondo = Doty

Levenda = Bill Moore

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 02:24 AM
On a sidenote, History Channel is really making the most of it, with revamped Ancient Aliens, Mufon Hangar something and reruns of Unidentified and a slew of other shows. What they all have in common is that they present nothing new, at all, and feature largely the same cast of characters. Some deal seems to have been made.

I know I have mentioned this before, but it truly seems to me they are pushing the same narrative on all available shows, and it is (broadly) the same story. UFOs (UAPs - pick your acronym) are real, they have been here since the dawn of time, they have shaped our evolution and they are still around. It is the same narrative presented in the Gods book by Levenda (who also have cropped up on occasion in some of these shows).

It seems pretty clear to me that New Ufology is now supposed to be a more sophisticated Ancient Aliens, with some IDH sprinkled on top, and a lot of quasi religious overtones.

The question that I have to ask myself is, of course, if this is just History Channel feeding of the Unidentified hype and public interest, why are all the narratives so consistent? Why do they all seem to agree with each other, all of a sudden? We used to have a lot of wildly diverging ideas in this famously divisive field, but they seem no to have coalesced into the "New Core Story", and nobody challenges this. Is this merely an evolution of the Ufology mythos? Natural selection, if you will?

Or is this, as some have claimed in this thread, an attempt at creating a new World View by steering such an evoultion? A new, modern Religion for a brave new world? A grand experiment in social engineering?

Whatever it is, it is pretty vague in its morality teachings, except for the commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Ask Inconvenient Questions".

Edit: Yes, I have to stop watching the History Channel, I know, but it really is quite fascinating to watch this absolute torrent of New Ufology (same as the old ufology).
edit on 17-2-2020 by beetee because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 02:47 AM

Overview of BAASS research for measuring and gleaning the effects on biological organisms from UAP.

Plans to create a “medical physiological UAP effects program.”

These above lines are from the popular mechanics article. Heres a pdf by Kit Green with quite a few interesting passages

We are aware of claims that some new and emergent systems may be intended to cause harm, and thus even be an intended weapon system. We make no attempt herein to validate any claims: that is certainly the overarching goal of the ADVANCED AEROSPACE WEAPON SYSTEM APPLICATIONS PROGRAM,but not of this study.

Beyond this, from a sociological perspective,expansion of this theme may also include the effects on humans en masse, namely inducement of hysteria, alteration or solidification of belief systems, alteration/destruction of social structures, group dynamics, etc., the analyses of which would require expertise in a great number of fields including sociology, anthropology, psychology, etc. For this broader perspective see Technical Study 9: Human Interface

PDF link

Also heres schuesslers catalog of ufo related physiological effects for anyone who wants to check more stuff
edit on 17-2-2020 by IMSAM because: syntax correction

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 07:12 AM
a reply to: Willtell

There are many agendas at play Will. All under the umbrella of a UFO Cult Company. The people paying the most attention will all be dismissed as fools and loony, alien hunters. That's why they are generally ignored and only 'friendly' journalists are given longform interviews. Until now.

But recently a charm offensive has been launched, and the likes of Lt. Tim become the chosen one to receive documents no one else outside of BAASS and government has seen. Why it has to be now and not two years ago I don't know? Maybe Knapp threw out his sofa and lost his copy?

Don't forget that John at Black Vault was also given an interview/statement from Zondo too recently that really didn't ask any of the questions that needed to be.

No one has asked the serious question why TTSA needs these guys on their advisory team?

A Counter Biological Weapons guy? A Brain & Traumatic Injury Research Doctor and an Attorney who practices in these fields. What do they need them for? Are they trying to use UFOs as some form of cover for bio weapons and tech that has injured people in the past?

Then we come to this BAASS report. If there were so many UFO cases in it then why do Zondo and company only ever focus on one solitary case from 2004 before AATIP even began? Is it because they know what happened and have stage managed this case to make it look like a UFO case but it is in fact secret tech (see above)? Why did they need to clean out MUFON's files? Where they worried some people had been injured and interpreted things as a UFO event?

edit on 17/2/2020 by mirageman because: clarity

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 07:42 AM
When it come to Bigelow I think we can make (have made) a case for Bigelow being a modern day Howard Hughes (remember Hughes Glomar Explorer operation?) and that his Space company is there for the convenience of his alphabet soup chums.

There are number of sites with poor employee reviews of the whole operation. Hiring and firing at regular interviews....just one example..

Management is populated largely by professionals from outside the aerospace industry. This is due in great part to the fact that professionals from within the aerospace industry tend to get themselves fired or simply quit. In my experience, this is due to either experts being marginalized by the owner concerning the expertise for which they were hired, or it is due to a systemic inability for experts to overcome the influence of the owner, who overrides sound scientific and engineering decisions for purely aestheic or cosmetic reasons, (or worse, due to a fundamental lack of knowledge and understanding).....

Sounds like this company is not what it seems. Especially when you consider that back in 2004 when all the Nimitz stuff was kicking off Bob was applying for patents for satellites with stealth capabilities. Why would he need that?

In late 2004, right about the time that some U.S. lawmakers publicly unveiled a previously classified $9.5 billion program to build satellites that orbit the Earth undetected from the ground, Robert Bigelow,.. submitted a patent application for a satellite that proposed to do just that.

Bigelow’s patent, filed in November 2004.... eliminate the optical and radar signatures that could be used to track, identify and determine the orbital parameters of a satellite from the ground...

.....This could include using radar absorbing materials and/or geometrics to reflect radar waves at angles that make detection of the craft difficult.” The patent goes on to say that shell could be “colored as to make visual detection more difficult.

Original Source

Things that should make people go hmmmm!

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 11:10 AM
I don't know if this has come up before but you have to wonder what the hell is TTSA honcho Jim Semivan doing blurbing this documentary about people claiming to have been abducted and impregnated by aliens:

Among the abductees featured in the movie is this woman who claims to have been raped by aliens on the moon:

All of this raises questions yet again about TTSA's real agenda

Edit: In the interest of accuracy, this woman later claimed that the Mirror article was wrong and that while she was indeed abducted by reptilians she was actually raped by other humans on the moon.

edit on 17-2-2020 by coursecatalog because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2020 by coursecatalog because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2020 by coursecatalog because: Spelling and anti-reptilian bias

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 11:33 AM
a reply to: coursecatalog


she was snatched by a "humanoid with a tail" and taken to a secret base on the far side of the moon.

No comment re the video either.

Whatever happened on the moon stays on the moon. Next.

edit on 17-2-2020 by Baablacksheep because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 11:40 AM
jim is an experiencer himself , maybe he wants to raise more awareness to the abduction aspect, although this mockumentary is the worst ever made. Had the unluckiness of watching it
talk about losing one hour of my life

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 12:30 PM
a reply to: IMSAM

Yes but I think he could probably raise more awareness by talking about his own experience publicly and not endorsing this trainwreck documentary.

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 01:08 PM
Again, forgive me for the length…

Correlation between TTSA and The Paul Bennewitz disinformation scheme

When Paul Bennewitz came to the Airforce in about 1980 regarding the UFO-like crafts, he filmed landing at the Kirtland AFB in the middle of the night he was met by important generals, IC people, high-tech experts and they listened to him intently. These powerful military people took him very seriously.

When TDL went to the Skunkworks honcho with his SEKRET Machines obsession he was feted all around to very important quasi-government and government people: CIA, Air Force, NASA.

Both were obsessing with Secret Machines. In the case of Bennewitz they were unknown, but obviously very Secret on some level. So secret enough to begin a high-level disinformation plot around him that went on for more than ten years and resulted in the unfortunate mental breakdown of Paul Bennewitz.

It also resulted in a 50-year disinformation and meme control era over ufology that still pervades its lore and attention.

Now, if according to many researchers, the Bennewitz affair was all about misleading attention from these crafts Bennewitz reported he filmed from his rooftop (btw, illegally) in that vital meeting he had with the military and intel brass at the KAFB in around 1980. So, they had a vested interest in not having their SEKRET machines drawn out in a public exposure. Or whatever those crafts were that Bennewitz filmed.

What makes us think TDL and his innocent, naïve, happy-go-lucky, SEKRET machine obsession he carried to the military complex wasn’t looked at with the same jaundiced eye as those in 1980 looked at Bennewitz?
Who is this guy meddling in our technology?

Why would TDL get a pass? These are SEKRET machines! Surely the feds don’t really want to placate such technological adventurism to any extent that would reveal their SEKRET machines.

Just like after Bennewitz revealed his hand to the KAFB brass he was enveloped in a massive, concentrated disinformation plot.
Doesn’t it seem that TDL like Bennewitz was, consequent to his approach to the military, surrounded by government and ex-government brass and important people? Sure, he was. Like white on uncle Bens rice, he was surrounded and still is.
See my point?

Now the correlation may not be 100 percent exact, it never is, times and circumstances and people change so the methodology adjusts… Because likely, at least, they don’t want to drive TDL to any mental issues (maybe they’ve learned their lesson through the Bennewitz affair). But it seems to me the same dynamic is in play.

If anyone, Joe Blow or TDL, Paul Bennewitz or you or me dare go to these military guys with your naïve intentions of being patriotic and helpful regarding potential top-secret machines, believe me, you will be enveloped in something pretty serious.

TDL, maybe willingly, became, IMO, an object of US intelligence observation and or control after his sojourn around the mystery secret circuit he might have thought this was a go-go guy thing. But this more than likely was a—were going to watch your-ass thing, closely. He just doesn’t see it that way and that is a big problem for him. That is their job. These guys are serious people not to be trifled with by any delusions that you have any business in their business as Bennewitz and now TDL has done.
I already revealed the same type of associations with Bennewitz are now surrounding TDL

Levenda=Bill Moore
TDL=Paul Bennewitz

This is not to say Peter Levenda is deceiving TDL in any way, or that Zondo is the same nefarious guy as Doty. It’s just that the same kinds of operators and people (in the disinformation plot) that surrounded Bennewitz, are surrounding TDL. And all the military-connected people surrounding TDL equals the many military, IC and technological people who surrounded Bennewitz.
The same goal is in mind and that is to alter the UFO meme and take it from the overly antigovernment suspicion over lethal black projects to a more reasonable government not as bad as we all thought.

(Indeed, all they did was tell a few white lies about a black project just worth 22 million.)

The meme is a change from the demonic aliens in the cave to the aliens in the warp drive.

Both are phony. The government for years has spread the nonsensical disinformation that “they can take ET home.”

That’s what this all about. A disinformation meme upgrade. From a horror movie to a SCI-FI fantasy.

In the end, hopefully, this is a more innocuous group around TDL, than those around Bennewitz. God forbid it turn out like the Bennewitz affair.

No one wants to see a young man damaged that way.

edit on 17-2-2020 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 03:37 PM
Colavito pointed out that Popular Mechanics was owned by Hearst, same as the History channel.


posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 04:10 PM
a reply to: Willtell

Where do you place Puthoff in this Will?

This is a man who seemed to have had a promising career in designing laser and beam devices. Then he somehow got sucked into old Father Hubbard's cupboard.

After that his career (at least publicly) appears to be one of the most "successfully unsuccessful" people in recent history. His career is a litany of a failure to produce any tangible results from his work. Yet he remains someone who just keeps coming back and getting paid to fail again and again by both rich benefactors and the US government.

So is there more to this?

We know Hal is a "company man" But he was also a $cientologist from 1967 and into the 70s. A move which seemingly ruined some of his best years inside what is not really a religion but a cult. But at that time, coincidentally, Old Ron Hubbard was running Operation Snow White where $cientologists infiltrated government departments by taking jobs there and destroying information and classified files on the organisation.

Was that just a coincidence? Because the Hoff was allowed to just walk away from it all unlike most who try to leave the cult.

Then there was his time contracted to work on Project Stargate for almost 20 years! With the final conclusion.

The Stargate Project was terminated and declassified in 1995 after a CIA report concluded that it was never useful in any intelligence operation. Information provided by the program was vague and included irrelevant and erroneous data, and there was reason to suspect that its project managers had changed the reports so they would fit background cues

In 1991 he also founded his mysterious EartTech company which supposedly is "Shaping the future by innovating breakthroughs that inspire new modes of space transportation and new sources of energy." But after almost 30 years. so far. all we've got is a lot of paperwork out of him. We are still using chemical rockets to get into space.

In the late 90s into the early 2000s old Hoff was Chairman of Bigelow's NIDS. An organisation that was big on ideas but produced little in the way of tangible evidence of anything paranormal for Bob. But Bob would not forget this failure. No he did.

In the mid 2000s Hal was implicated in the spreading of the SERPO Hoax with Richard Doty.

There have even been claims that the Hoff is actually a recruiter for people to go to Mars!

....Laura Magdalene Eisenhower, the great granddaughter of President Eisenhower, claims that covert efforts were made to recruit her to join a colony on Mars that was headed by famed physicist, Dr Hal Puthoff.....


I am not sure I believe that one!

But then despite serving up a whole bunch of not much at all since 1970 then Bigelow gets his contract for AAWSAP/AATIP in 2008. Who does he call? That's right. The Hoff again. What did BAASS produce according the DoD?....

They produced reams of paperwork. After all of that there was really nothing there that we could find. It all pretty much dissolved from that reason alone—and the interest level was losing steam....


So here is this guy who keeps failing to deliver much more than paperwork for over 40 years. But when TTSA is formed who they gonna call?

Hal's Bust Ideas - Failing to produce since 1970....

edit on 17/2/2020 by mirageman because: ...

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 04:15 PM
a reply to: 1ofthe9

Colavito pointed out that Popular Mechanics was owned by Hearst, same as the History channel.

Yes although Lt. Tim is an independent freelance writer. So I don't see why he would need to issue a disclaimer about such matters in his piece.

However it is interesting how the whole Chariots of the Gods/Ancient Aliens angles has been promoted by History Channel as BeeTee also alluded to.
edit on 17/2/2020 by mirageman because: ...

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 08:37 PM
a reply to: mirageman

I went on his web site Earth Tech and it looks kind of thin in terms of substance.

He, of course, is the tester of the famous Uri Geller. That didn’t turn out too well.

But he probably is very wealthy from his secret government endeavors I would say so in that sense he may be successful but he certainly isn’t a success in terms of any discoveries, Uri Geller included.

I do think he has some secrets that are something he wouldn’t like to make public such as his UFO-related endeavors, such as what you mention about Serpo with his buddies Doty and Green.

I think his focus has been on the psychological aspect of belief systems and how to manipulate it to the PTBs benefit.

They may have some MK ultra connections something that should be researched.

I would call him, Green and others I won't mention, a member of the FOGIC.

Friend of Government Intelligence Community

edit on 17-2-2020 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2020 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 08:50 PM
You know the way to manipulate any reporter is to get them to think they have a scoop.

It’s only human, and a reporter is a profession, and that job is enhanced in terms of their success based on scoops and insider information that makes them unique. This looks like that relates to Tim.

I don’t fault him for that but we have to point it out. And remind that this is likely a manipulation attempt.

That’s how the game is played and to be an astute observer we have to understand that.

posted on Feb, 17 2020 @ 09:30 PM
a reply to: Willtell

I would call him, Green and others I won't mention, a member of the FOGIC.

Friend of Government Intelligence Community

Foggy FOGIC meets LOGIC
Lambasters of Gubbermint Intelligence Community.

You may keep the wordplay, this stuff writes itself by now. And who am I take creds for that?

posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 03:03 AM
a reply to: IMSAM

Beyond this, from a sociological perspective,expansion of this theme may also include the effects on humans en masse, namely inducement of hysteria, alteration or solidification of belief systems, alteration/destruction of social structures, group dynamics, etc., the analyses of which would require expertise in a great number of fields including sociology, anthropology, psychology, etc. For this broader perspective see Technical Study 9: Human Interface

I think this excerpt from the Paper you linked above is very interesting.

Especially the sentence "inducement of hysteria, alteration or solidification of belief systems, alteration/destruction of social structures, group dynamics, etc"

Influencing how groups think is an invaluable tool for governments worldwide. A lot of actors are very keen on both doing this and developing better methods of doing it. The Russians, with their massive online propaganda / meme machine is probably in front here, but there is also a rich history in the US of working with introducing ideas into the way the public at large think, and seeking to influence and steer it.

One stroke of genius, that has served a lot of politicians in the US well, was that they somehow managed to create the belief that democracy and capitalism goes hand in hand. This is, of course, not the case, but many people seem to believe this still. Democracy is a political system and capitalism an economic model, where the one has nothing to do with the other. Still, somehow, the idea was planted and enforced through repetition, and it still influences the way people think about these things. That's how powerful subtle propaganda is.

Another example is the absolutely torrent of small details that managed to paint the opposing side in the Cold War as almost inhuman. I remember this very well. How I grew up thinking the Soviets were almost like flesh and blood machines, marching along almost insect like, hell bent on the destruction of the Free West. Even the artist Sting fell for it, with his very strange hit "Russians", where we can find the phrase "I hope the Russians love their children too." Isn't that interesting, that we in the "West" certainly loved our children, but when it came to the Russians, well the question had to be asked. It is pretty subtle, and I doubt the good Geordie had any nefarious intent, but it goes to show how effective the propaganda machine really was. And still is.

My point with this is that if you want to develop and polish your methods and do research to see what works, and what doesn't, you need an outlet to do it in. Something that doesn't spectacularly backfire, in case you got it wrong. A somewhat safe area for your meme insertion and manipulation. What better place to test out your theories and hone your skill, than in a "fringe topic" such as UFOs? Can we change the belief systems of thousands of people by subtly inserting this package here? Is it possible to make a significant number believe this? Can we just blatantly lie and get away with it? How plausible must the lie be? And so on.

I am fairly convinced, by now, that someone is actively testing out theories and writing classified papers, using the safe field of Ufology as a test bed.

The fact that UFO/UAPs may indeed be real is not relevant to the fact that it is abused in this fashion by certain parties. However, it does imply that they, being the people behind the abuse, do not take the subject very seriously. Which seems to be the case with at least portions of the US IC and military.

It can, indeed, be that other so-called "fringe topics" are also used to gauge the public response to certain techniques. But I do believe that UFOs has been, and still is, the classic proving ground for the propagandists and spin doctors out there. Maybe it is out of old habit, but maybe not.

If you look at the torrent of propaganda being spewed by various outlets today, like the constant barrage I have previously mentioned by History Channel and others, it is clear that they are working hard to renovate and reintroduce the "Ancient Aliens" hypothesis as a serious contender, whereas it had previously fallen somewhat out of popularity. Does this mean that the History Channel is a propaganda outlet? No, it doesn't. But it means that they have worked out how to "change the conversation" and push the discourse in the direction they want. Some subtle touches and bumps here and there, and then human nature does the rest for free. Propaganda really is an art. An ugly art, but an art none the less.

So, if we are now thinking that the Ancient Aliens thing is being subtly pulled out into the lime light and dusted off, what does that mean for the reality of UFOs? Well, if this is merely a propaganda exercise, then it doesn't really mean anything at all. These people have little interest in whether there were ever any extraterrestrials or inter-dimensionals buzzing the Maya or the Egyptians in the past. They are interested in ways to influence the collective human hive-mind. How To Make People Believe.

And who are these people, doing this? If we want to identify them, we would have to look behind the people who are currently center stage, who may indeed be unwitting participants with genuine beliefs. We should look for people interested in the human aspects of this. In human behavior and beliefs.

Of course, it is not impossible that the people doing the manipulation have beliefs and philosophies of their own, which they may seek to inject into the mainstream for their own reasons. Maybe they have very exotic beliefs indeed.

The point is, however, that they are not really interested in "solving" any of the mysteries connected to UFOs. They are mainly in the business of creating more mysteries and recycling old ones, to see what they can get away with. For Science!

Now, isn't that a cheerful thought, in light of Mr Christopher Green and his "solidification of belief systems"?
edit on 18-2-2020 by beetee because: Tidy up and clarification

edit on 18-2-2020 by beetee because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 05:35 AM
a reply to: beetee

Ha! I like the way you introduced this train of thoughts with literally driving a refreshingly objective wedge between the carefully sublimated concepts of democracy and capitalism. Chapeau!

The point is, however, that they are not really interested in "solving" any of the mysteries connected to UFOs. They are mainly in the business of creating more mysteries and recycling old ones, to see what they can get away with. For Science!

Now, isn't that a cheerful thought, in light of Mr Christopher Green and his "solidification of belief systems"?

It's a very cheerful thought indeed. Propaganda in a training area of sorts, mental tic tacs f*cking with pilots in human suits in order to develop better mental tic tacs that could f*ck with even smarter pilots in human suits, who tend to believe they are immunized to this kinda mind control due to their analytical skills.

However. I'm still struggling to ignore those patents from another world, which is probably why I'm having issues with your 'slightly' innocent take of "dark arts for the science of dark arts only".
There's another reason why UAP's in training areas don't seem to be that much of a big deal: it's the Black Budget Navy at work, with higher ups in the known. And why should you be scared by your own toys? You would have to be totally unaware of those Lego pieces scattered on the ground in order to have them bite your feet once you step on them.

And with this possibility in mind, said "solidification of belief systems" seems to be applied for a very specific reason. The inconvenient truth in this professionally hidden equation would be the fact, that we neanderthals in space suits had access to world-shifting technologies for decades.
We have yet to overcome the control-system of National Security concerns, which serves as an effective smokescreen to hide the past, the present and the future from us for rather simple reasons like influence, or power projection, for example.

Whatever it might be, we'll never find out unless we tear down this wall for good. That much is abundantly clear by now. Which raises another question: why didn't you entertain this possibility of a "black" application of the dark arts, could you elaborate on that? What am I missing here?
Do you think said patents are an elaborate joke, and part of the organized confusion, which would imply gigantic problems within academia? What exactly was it that made you land on this conclusion? The attractive beauty of a simple solution right in front of my eyes, and my conscience wont let me have at it. Guess I could use some help.

edit on 18-2-2020 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 18 2020 @ 07:26 AM
a reply to: PublicOpinion

Thank you for your thoughtful and well written reply. I will apologize in advance for yet another wall of text, but it does go to the heart of the issue, in my humble opinion, so I hope you will forgive me.

Firstly, although I do believe that there is a real mystery at the core of this thing, the subject of UFOs or UAPs, I also do believe that significant portions of the US governments power structure are largely uninterested in this. Partly, perhaps, because they seemingly can’t get anywhere, and partly because it makes them look inept and helpless. There may be other influences at play too, such as religious beliefs.

The art of deception is pretty much grounded in hardcore behavioral science these days and has been for many years. This leaked document from the British GCHQ is a good example of how they approach this subject. It is a collection of slides from presentation used in training specifically related to disinformation and disruption. Note the pictures.

The Intercept Document Link

The Intercept did an article on it too, which I will link below.


It is not a simplistic “prance around in fake alien suits” approach, although such simple tricks may indeed have been used on occasion. It is well known that fakery was developed into an art form by both sides during WW2, and there is no reason to think they have stopped since.

With regards to the patents filed by the Navy, which I assume you are referring to, I think it is very problematic that they are publicly filed. There are provisions in place for withholding patent information for National Security reasons extant in the US. Why file in public and give away potential clues to an adversary for no reason? I can think of a few potential reasons, but it remains a bit of a red flag.

When it comes to the US government exploring exotic technologies and trying crazy things, under the cover of black budget programs, there is a well attested record of this, including such exotic topics as Remote Viewing and mind manipulation. I see no reason to doubt that they would pursue anything that had any plausible military application. But the best weapon, we should remember, is the weapon that the opposition does not know about. If you know about it, you will look for it. And if you look hard enough, you will eventually find it. And if you find it, you can develop ways of tracking it. If you can track it, you are well on your way to being able to kill it.

So, how do this pertain to UFOs? Well, imagine the difference between a Chinese, or Russian, national reporting a UFO and the same people reporting a US Spy drone or plane? The one is a curious mystery in the local newspaper and the other a full-blown international incident, requiring a strong government response. Which would you, as a US agency operating the thing, prefer?

The fact that there exists a “grey zone” where UFOs may be “possibly, but not definitely, Other” is quite beneficial for any clandestine operation using technologies that might conceivably be classified as a UFO. I think this is why the subject is plagued by all these Intelligence Agencies with their various agendas, and the reason why the Mystery is subtly supported and allowed to persist. Lest it die out completely, it needs a bit of invigoration from time to time. A vitamin injection, of sorts. Here there be, possibly, Dragons.

edit on 18-2-2020 by beetee because: (no reason given)

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