Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Ologist

I think the Wilson/Davis transcript is completely genuine. Not a fake at all.

Whether the information contained is true is the question because it is very likely that either:

A. The secret project guys lied to Admiral Wilson.
B. Admiral Wilson lied to Davis

Therefore the document is useless without getting both Admiral Wilson and (this is important) the people he talked to on the record.

a reply to: coursecatalog

Or Davis totally twisted it. I think that's a real possibility. Or was fed disinformation.

originally posted by: The GUT

Podesta's involvement with Delonge and crew to include Levenda has always stood out to me as a piece of the puzzle to be solved. Even considering--for the moment--that there's a group of believers including Podesta trying to figure out a way to force disclosure.

One of the points that the dark journalist chap makes is that had Hillary won, the cover story would've most likely held up and makes some good points in that regard.

I think there's something to the theory and that considering it requires no political philosophy debate. He also points out how Hillary started using "UAP" all of a sudden on the campaign trail and seemingly from out of the blue.

So maybe they planned on bringing, or appearing to bring, disclosure and TTSA was left twisting in the wind and are attempting to keep the operation--whatever it is--alive.

I've also been wondering this morning that if not Lue, who was in charge of AATIP?

a reply to: The GUT
Back in February Chris Herndon left his post as Director of Information Technology in the Trump White House (a very high level post reporting directly to the chief of staff) and joined the TTSA Advisory Board.

Just a sign that the TTSA guys haven't put all their eggs in the Clinton/Podesta basket.

That’s the problem with TTSA they’re trying to get blood out of a stone. The only way they will succeed is to hype up ufology and slickly produce redundant material already gone over time after time by others.

Ufology research, including the governments, have been through all these steps Zondo and TTSA are doing.

He has no new technology, methodology in the least to add to what they've discovered, which was nothing.
Therefore, they are at best another redundant research effort that will end up with what they all have ended up with---nothing.

a reply to: Sublant

Pretty simple. They're making money for themselves.

a reply to: The GUT

Zondo is and was the trash handler...

He was in charge of taking out the garbage at ATTIP and making sure no one peeped. So, he had to sit by the garbage for hours until the county garbage man came and picked up the CIA’s common trash.

Then he went back to the gym and pumped Iron for 6 hours.

That's the extent of his experiential knowledge of ufology

originally posted by: Sublant

Now he is head science honcho of TTSA and is awarding himself contracts to investigate magic materials. I don' think it gets easier than that.

Awarding himself? What money would that be?

Puthoff personally is a 82 year old millionaire.

So, once again. If TTSA is a money-making operation, for whom, what money and for what purpose?

Chris Mellon alone could finance the study of magic materials, if it's just the question of money.

You obviously dont know any millionaires. Every urban millionaire i know is seeking ever more wealth and status. Old habits die hard. You need several million to buy a nice house in san diego, where this is based. These guys were overpaid as bureaucrats, but definitely would enjoy more easy money doing what they do.

originally posted by: coursecatalog
a reply to: Ologist

I think the Wilson/Davis transcript is completely genuine. Not a fake at all.

Whether the information contained is true is the question because it is very likely that either:

A. The secret project guys lied to Admiral Wilson.
B. Admiral Wilson lied to Davis

Therefore the document is useless without getting both Admiral Wilson and (this is important) the people he talked to on the record.

Agreed. Its either entirely fake, or wilson lied. I believe its fake. Did you notice the author ALWAYS inserted his own name in each conversation, as if to clarify who is who (he must be doing this for a reader, not himself). If it truly was personal notes for self, then why constantly refer to himself by name in parenthesis instead of as “me” or “I said”...

a reply to: Sublant

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Happy Fathers day to all

a reply to: The GUT

Re:'Podesta's involvement to include DeLonge and crew including Levenda...' As I mentioned earlier in the thread I admire Levenda's research and I feel like he's brilliant and enigmatic, the kind of person that draws me to ATS discussions. But having said that I was pretty shocked when that memorable photo came out in 2016 showing Podesta posing with TDL III, Levenda, and the other author, in Washington DC. The first thing I noticed is that Podesta and Levenda are in absolute lock-step style wise, and dress wise and body language-wise. They are even clasping their hands together in exactly the same manner and seem to be very aware of the magnitude of the occasion. Whereas TDL looks like he's taking a candid snapshot with his friends and feels not quite in step with his colleagues.

Around the time the photo was made available there was political turmoil in the air, the battle lines were being drawn in the culture war in the USA. As another poster above has mentioned, the term UAP started taking off, and the things seemed to be shifting. Then news came out about Podesta's brother Tony and his decadent art collection, and Democratic connections to occultist Marina Abramovic and 'spirit cooking' and all the rest. So as All this is going down, I'm looking at that photo and realizing that its a photo of TDL III, and Podesta, posing with Peter L, the probable author of the Simon Necronomicon. Now, the tale of the Simon Necronomicon is a whole other story but its commonly held by researchers at this point that Levenda is indeed the author of this infamous material.

I personally don't have a problem with the scope of Levenda's research into the occult, and demonology, but I can easily see how players in the increasingly religious, increasingly evangelical Trump administration might have serious issues when they start to do their 'due diligence' research into the backgrounds of people like Levenda, as TTSA tries to cozy up to the current right-wing administration.

a reply to: Ologist

Excellent analysis...as I have previously stated this document is most likely TRASH....
Its such a transparent attempt to capitalize from TTSA's media attention.

Additionally, we are in a new age of ufology requiring HIGHER STANDARDS OF PROOF....

Video, Radar, Signal Intelligence, and Expert eyewitness (not what grandmama saw).

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: pigsy2400

TTSA just may be an outliner operation of the CIA.

That is the same kind of situation when the CIA, for example, owns and runs a company they use for may reasons: getting money to agents, covert work…etc.

Here, though, they will make money to maintain it on their own just like they would do with any private company they take over.

They already got the 22 million easily to Bigelow for services.

Those are the kind of operations they will do here not any type, kind, or level of disclosure.

I don't think they're ever going to tell us anything new.

The actual ufology research will be pedestrian.

These intelligence guys never retire. They retire into contracting and the private sector, forever living off their security classification and their contacts in the intelligence community and connected corporate power brokers. Nothing different with TTSA... their entire program is DEFINITELY built around using their contacts in the good old boy network to network themselves into CONTINUED privilege and status. These boys are extremely used to a lifestyle of privileged insider status and access... old tricks die hard. They are retired but still work for their professional network so to speak.

There indeed remains the very real possibility that one of the TTSA crew is still an official representative for CIA etc. - the contact person for the TTSA private sector (potential) asset. Selling themselves as government contractors implies they have something to sell. There are many indications TTSA may be currently contracted with the federal government. Notice how the tic tac video was declassified for internal government use? TTSA’s release of the video may be an acceptable internal contractor use of the declassified material.

Remember, Hal shared that the idea for TTSA was born when Bigelow’s government contracted private/secret crew was winding down. I believe there was possibly some jealousy on Hal’s part. Essentially, these guys want to do what Bigelow was doing...have “top” (security clearance) scientists analyze anomalous phenomena. Moreover, Bigelow was sweeping up all meta data on UFO reports, AND RECEIVING MATERIALS related to ufos from the public sector. The monies also allowed Hal to network with scientists across the world on various arcane theoretical topics. Hal, and the others, essentially came up with a plan to continue the Bigelow project, get new contracting monies, make monies in the private sector, add a media element to the secret studies, and become the nexus to receive and coordinate all public and government ufo reports and materials...but they actually stole the idea from Bigelow.

As a side note, do you notice that Hal, Kit, all the remote viewers, etc. instead of retiring into the shadows of all these special access projects, ALWAYS make a major media showing afterwards?!?!?! Every remote viewer in Hals study is now a public new age guru. Why when these fringe guys finish a project is it always greenlighted for a huge public disclosure, but when a tradition spook retires in usually remains in the blaxk what they were up to?

Give the Zondo props though for saying the religious lunatics in the government didn’t want to study ufos because they said they were demons. The only demons there are, are those religious hypocrites who want to remain ignorant.

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Ologist

Excellent analysis...as I have previously stated this document is most likely TRASH....
Its such a transparent attempt to capitalize from TTSA's media attention.

Additionally, we are in a new age of ufology requiring HIGHER STANDARDS OF PROOF....

Video, Radar, Signal Intelligence, and Expert eyewitness (not what grandmama saw).

TTSAs primary concern with the fake wilson document seems to be because it steals some of the limelight and thunder from their own promotion and TV launch.

There always have been scientists involved in studying the phenomena by the way, and an intelligent civilian observer’s report is every bit as relevant and authentic as someone who has joined the military right out of high school. Being in The military doesn’t change a damn thing when it comes to a man’s observation of anomalous phenomena.

The fact is, TTSA is posturing themselves as the sole scientific investigators of the phenomena (as bigelows team did), and attempts to denigrate any civilian observer in an attempt to control market share and public perception while posturing themselves as the only potential TRUE KNOWERS. In reality, They know no more of the truth that you or I.

When i get time to post my next detailed analysis, TTSA will be shown to be entirely irrelevant and largely pompous in their attitude and approach to this phenomena.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Sublant

Pretty simple. They're making money for themselves.

Are they? How about instead of one-liner accusations, you give some evidence to your claims?

They are all making money, from sources other than TTSA. They all have great earning potential. What does TDL need TTSA money for? How much has he gotten so far? Same for Puthoff, Mellon, Justice and Semivan. While we're at it, how much has Elizondo, Dr. Rapp, Dr. Kahn and Dr. Kelleher got? I guess they're also paying Reid, Knapp and who else?

These are executive level professionals, who have spent more than two years on this by now. Either they are really lousy at getting compensated for their time and work, or this is about something else than making money.

It's not if the company pays for it's employees for the work they do, but could they have done something else and got paid the same or more. Any adult should be able to figure this out.

a reply to: Ologist

Celltyunspecific posted Dr. Putoff’s video lecture on page 102 of this thread.

I just want to be clear that I am a neutral party. I have no affiliation with TTSA (however I do want them to succeed in principle which is DISCLOSURE).

I would simply like to provide data for discussion or analysis.

although as their sock puppet has stated, perhaps thats more than we have had in awhile besides fake dotys and fake documents.

That is the key point in your analysis......

For all of TTSA's issues:

They have moved the field forward from changes in the NAVY guidelines, pentagon confirmation of UAPs/UFOs, production of videos showing REAL UAPs/UFOs, along with official military event summaries, to meeting with congressional members, to TRUMP making a statement in support of our "great pilots"...

I could go on...but theres no point. We will be able to add to the list of achievements by the end of the week...

You obviously dont know any millionaires. Every urban millionaire i know is seeking ever more wealth and status. Old habits die hard. You need several million to buy a nice house in san diego, where this is based. These guys were overpaid as bureaucrats, but definitely would enjoy more easy money doing what they do.

Is this easy? As the old saying goes, if it would be easy, everyone would be doing it.

TTSA people may or may not be looking for more money. If they are, TTSA seems like a lousy way of getting it for people with their experience, education and contacts.

a reply to: Ologist

From the very start of ufo experience in America, the CIA had their retirees latch on to ufology.

The very first head of the CIA Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter after he retired joined Nicap.

Other CIA operators like Kit Green and Hal Puthoff were told to investigate and monitor ufology events outside of their official duties, and they did that over the years.

This elusive phenomenon, UAP’s, they realize can’t be penetrated so they after many failed attempts at finding out something about it have resolved to allow their IC people to keep an eye on it at least informally. That's the CIA's routine. The Airforce, on the other hand, has directly and consciously spread disinformation.

Every few years there’s a new spirit that wants to reveal or resolve this mystery only to be highjacked by the IC and his own ego. Jacques Vallee’s entire career in ufology is the testimony to all of this.