4 dead, 1 hurt in shooting at Texas toddler’s birthday party

The first problem is we don't know what caused this altercation. We don't know if the people involved are drug cartel members, gang members, or just people without common sense. We don't know if the guns used were legal or illegal. We really don't know squat.

But I side with ketsuko... it is a question of respect for life. We seem to have lost that. Until we get it back, people will kill each other, because they have no respect for each other.

I grew up in the 70s. Several of us had gun racks in our vehicles, with loaded guns in the racks, in the school parking lot. Our big discipline problem? Smoking in the bathroom. The biggest difference? Students were shown a basic level of respect and expected to respect others then, whereas today students are seen as little lumps of clay to be molded into good (agenda-driven) citizens in assembly-line fashion.

The problem is in the schools.

TheRedneck

a reply to: elysiumfire

Nah, in the UK you guys just toss acid on each other, stab each other or mow each other down with car attacks.

a reply to: elysiumfire

You know what one last try, here are some facts...


33k gun deaths in a country of 330 million people, is .01% of the population people are not dying in droves no matter what the press is feeding you.


Add in the fact that nearly 20k of the people that die to guns are suicide the number skews even more, homicide gun deaths are not even a blip on the radar for whats killing americans on a daily basis.

ETA: Forgot to add, those 33k dead are spread over 9.8 million sq kilometers of land.

queenofswords:

...you do not have the soul of an American.

You have no idea how much that pleases me!

You cannot understand the deeper levels of what it means to have "the right to keep and bear arms". It is a mystery to you.

Wrong! Guns are chains of enslavement, whether it be physical or psychological. The 'right to keep and bear arms...' is not relevant any more, and is about as much use in the modern world as a chocolate fireguard. It isn't a mystery that those words in the amendment are just as much the cause of misery to Americans who get shot daily as famine is to parts of Africa and Africans.

You are being given solutions but are rejecting them outright, without thought, but with plenty of fear. If you need a gun you are not living 'free', freedom comes to a person without conditions or strings attached. The 2nd amendment is just a centuries old allowance given as a necessity of time they were written in, but those times have long gone, and it is not dust that covers those old words, it is blood. The 2nd amendment has helped to shape the America you are living in today, and the America of today is nothing pleasing to write home about. It is just chaotic!

a reply to: elysiumfire

For the average rural citizen, the gun is a tool of daily life.

ketsuko:

Nah, in the UK you guys just toss acid on each other, stab each other or mow each other down with car attacks.

Indeed we do, and not a gun shot to be heard (unless you're in London). Nice of you to add in terrorist tactics as part of the crime wave. Are you willing to add planes to the American crime wave, too?

ketsuko:

For the average rural citizen, the gun is a tool of daily life.

No doubt to be turned on a person should the impulse arrive?

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: elysiumfire

You know what one last try, here are some facts...


33k gun deaths in a country of 330 million people, is .01% of the population people are not dying in droves no matter what the press is feeding you.


Add in the fact that nearly 20k of the people that die to guns are suicide the number skews even more, homicide gun deaths are not even a blip on the radar for whats killing americans on a daily basis.

ETA: Forgot to add, those 33k dead are spread over 9.8 million sq kilometers of land.

And, actually, if you take Chicago, Baltimore, LA, and New Orleans out of the mix, gun violence would be less than a blip on the radar.

a reply to: elysiumfire

I am going to guess you were born an raised in the big city and would have no clue what goes on out in the sticks, or the myriad of things that can kill you in rural areas... and once again 9.8 million sq kilometers of land.


Millions of americans live in an area that has no real police protection so when aggressive animals of the 2 or 4 legged variety a gun would be the only protection for these people and their families... but I guess since they live away from the city they are beneath your radar for caring.

Great example...this tool says only the bad guys in London have guns to kill defenseless people. That's rich.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Well a few deaths discounts the hundreds of thousands of lives saved every year for sure.

originally posted by: elysiumfire
ketsuko:

For the average rural citizen, the gun is a tool of daily life.

No doubt to be turned on a person should the impulse arrive?

No. It's to be used for critters mainly. Critters that are destructive to property. Critters that are sick or need to be put down, both your own or wild ones.

When you live in the country, sometimes it's cruel to make an animal wait until a vet can come. Animal control doesn't do house calls, especially on weekends, if a rabid critter wanders up out of the countryside and threatens you or your pets.

But, you know, I'm sure that it's completely unnecessary to have a means to deal effectively with any of those situations.

And that's all before you get to the idea that, yes, in the US there is a lot of territory for some of the Country Sheriffs to cover if some human beings bent on bad stuff do turn up on your property.

Well, it's been emotional to say the least chatting with you all, but I must get some kip. Good night to all and when you go to sleep tonight, don't forget to securely lock all windows and doors, and have your arsenal at the ready just in case. P.S. Hope the gunshots outside don't keep you awake all night...ohh, the anticipation of it all!

vimeo.com...

I don't like guns either.

Say we had tougher laws...you kill someone, you get put down like a dog 24 hours after trial verdict. All others are forced HARD manual labor during their sentencing term.

Jail and/or prison shouldn't be a comfy stay at the Hilton. 3-meals a day, play time, lay around all day, all the sex you can handle, etc...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TinySickTears

Yes, but those aren't values or morals.

I am talking about things like honesty, integrity, compassion, respect, etc.

Those sorts of values and character traits lead you to not murdering, raping, stealing, etc.

Speaking of morals and values, would you think that your POTUS displays these values, honesty, integrity, compassion, respect etc, he's setting the standard for how people should act right?

a reply to: elysiumfire

You have no idea how much that pleases me!

That's what I thought. Just another America hater that enjoys criticizing that "mean ole outdated" Second Amendment.

Honestly, I think there is a bit of deep seated hate and jealousy by some for Americans because they refuse to subjugate themselves to their government and prize their right to keep and bear arms.

As one poster pointed out, the media blows every gun incident up to make it seem you can't walk out your door without getting shot. Ridiculous. I know 25-year veteran law enforcement officers serving in a major metropolitan city that has never even had to draw their service weapon.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

so its different from right to right then?

in another thread about stop and frisk(a rights violation) a couple argued that it is worth it if even 1 life is saved

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TinySickTears

Yes, but those aren't values or morals.

I am talking about things like honesty, integrity, compassion, respect, etc.

Those sorts of values and character traits lead you to not murdering, raping, stealing, etc.

Speaking of morals and values, would you think that your POTUS displays these values, honesty, integrity, compassion, respect etc, he's setting the standard for how people should act right?

Our presidents haven't for a very long time. Why are you suddenly concerned about it now?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: TinySickTears

Yes, but those aren't values or morals.

I am talking about things like honesty, integrity, compassion, respect, etc.

Those sorts of values and character traits lead you to not murdering, raping, stealing, etc.

Speaking of morals and values, would you think that your POTUS displays these values, honesty, integrity, compassion, respect etc, he's setting the standard for how people should act right?

To be honest I have never seen a president in my lifetime exhibit those morals and values, so seems a little hypocritical to suddenly decide we have to hold the president to this.

Closest I have seen is Carter, but that was more once he got out of politics he compromised while a politician which lead him down the same road as every other president in the last 45 yrs, except he didn't stray as far.

a reply to: ketsuko

What I mean is that Trump is a huge role model, and although all these previous presidents are just corrupt as trump they didn't ooze chaos, they were at least diplomatic and tried to maintain decorum, something trump seems incapable of. From where I'm sitting there's has been an escalation in the vitriol and with a role model like you currently have it's hardly surprising.