Does the U.S.A. secretly love illegal immigrants?

Crop are rotting in the field...because Americans are to proud to harvest them.



You reap what you sow...ironic isn't it?

fortune.com...

a reply to: bender151

Again that is a ridiculous leap-in-logic. I can be pro-immigration and not be required to give immigrants jobs or lodging. Since when was it codified in law that being pro-immigration means you have to personally help a few?

The answer is Yes.

Consumers love low prices, Governors in conservative states or liberal with booming construction cities, farms, factories, automotive, factories etc.

Some of the simpler folks don't get the labor is the scapegoat. The employers are the ones stealing from the tax payers.

a reply to: saint4God

To answer the question in your title, yes. And it's not "secretly", either.

Think about it like this: for every undocumented worker, there's someone who's hiring them. And the people hiring them pay less in labor costs and don't have to pay them benefits, either. The US agricultural industry pretty much depends on cheap undocumented labor, as do many small time construction and landscaping firms.

People demonize them because they want to keep them taboo. As long as those people are considered taboo, they have to accept lower work conditions, lower compensation, and fewer rights. In other words, many people have an incentive to keep their landscapers, workers, and sex workers "illegal" since it reduces business costs & responsibilities. They don't want undocumented workers to become citizens because then they'd be entitled to the same rights, benefits, and opportunities as other citizens, which means the exploitation would end or be greatly reduced.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

This is also why illegal immigration crackdowns never address or target the businesses doing the exploiting. It's easier to attack the "others" instead of people considered respectable businessmen.

a reply to: saint4God

Mexicans do "great" work... assuming there is a white guy overseeing the job and watching them like a hawk. For every 1 hard working detail oriented trade worker, there are 100 fresh from the border that can barely dig a hole without direction.

Left to their own devices they notoriously cut corners and give zero fuc%s.

This is not a baseless assumption, this comes from over 150 combined years of family experience in the field and countless stories from others. It's practically an epidemic that is well known in the private contractor circles.

Combine this with how they live their lives (constant litter, broken down vehicles, over breeding, playing the language barrier game, painting houses BRIGHT blue or green, etc etc,) it's really no wonder so many are resistant to letting more and more in.


It's kind of amazing how much the "cheap labor" argument is thrown around... cheap labour yields cheap results. But by all means, go blow 700 on a cell phone that will be outdated in a year instead of getting a decent tile or paint job that could last decades or more when done correctly.

Does the U.S.A. secretly love illegal immigrants?

No! Just the Democrats do. Well, illegals and dead people. They count both at election time.

originally posted by: olaru12
Crop are rotting in the field...because Americans are to proud to harvest them.

You reap what you sow...ironic isn't it?

fortune.com...

The farming industry is just one of many that is having issues right now with a shortage of people. We are in desperate need of people in this country.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: saint4God
If we as United Statesians can put aside for a moment our...

No, please, don't use that term!

Thank you for the politeness, but what term would you like me to use?

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

Why do we insist on roadblocking the path to citizen ship with delays, expenses, and expectations above 'native born' (in quotes, not to be confused with Native Americans) citizens?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the process of becoming a citizen once you're a legal resident or you are talking about illegal immigrants who find a way in without being detected.

The process of becoming a citizen. I don't know how difficult it is to find a way into the country without being detected.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
In any case, think about this. There are 127 million people in Mexico and 36 million in Canada. If there were not limits on entry, we could potentially add 153 million people just like that. That's more than a third of the total US population today. Our infrastructure wouldn't support it.

With immigrants working, engaging in commerce, paying taxes, ideally the infrastructure should take care of itself. It was brought up previously the disparity in benefits which sounds like it should be addressed, but it is an interesting idea that both countries would migrate to the U.S. in one day.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

Why don't we make all tax-payers and their listed dependents citizens?

What's the benefit of becoming a citizen? You can vote and you're less likely to be deported. I became a citizen in the 80's and I have a lot of respect for the process which includes taking an oath to serve no other government. It's a personal decision but technically, it makes sure the people that vote do it for the good of the USA and not some other nation. I'm also a strong believer in not allowing dual-citizenship. A lot of foreigners maintain citizenship with their native country. You can't have it both ways as far as I'm concerned.

Glad you did and thank you for your contribution to society. There are some good things to say about the path to citizenship but a lot more on the need for improvement. One crisis is that many U.S. born citizens have little or no appreciation for this civic responsibility.

a reply to: saint4God

Well, no insult intended, but your last paragraph sounds derned near delusional.

If you want to solve the problem, there are basically two ways to do that.

1) Set up a truly simplistic "Guest Worker" Visa program to be administered either in US Embassies/Consulates in Mexico/Central America/South America/Canada..........anywhere/whatever OR at Border Crossing Facilities. Basically, you tag'em and bag'em; issue a photo ID, get all their particulars such as relatives contacts both inside and outside the US and the location they plan to reside in, even if only temporarily while seeking work. Let'em transit back and forth across the border as much as they want to......who cares. I would also suggest a health screening.

2) Simply grant dual citizenship to the residents of the "Americas" wherein they can apply for a US Passport and Social Security ID at the US Embassies. That would also enable them to vote in our elections, but considering the quality of pond scum in office today, I don't have a problem with that.

Problem solved.

Mexico is a perfect example of just how ridiculous this problem is. I checked! I know a Mexican Attorney. He's told me that Mexicans get birth certificates when they're born; they have to use them to get Mexican Driver's licenses. Mexico knows who these people are................with a little bit of work, US officials could as well.

a reply to: olaru12

when you spend decades telling kids they have to goto college or they will be picking crops for a living and that is a sign of failure what exactly did people expect to happen.


That said, we want 15 an hour for burger flippers and they don't work near as hard as a picker, plus the pickers get paid pennies on the pound, so do you want wage slaves or much higher costs for food?

Another problem is john deer, there newer tractors have a large amount of computers in them and the company has the software listed as proprietary information so you have to use an authorized mechanic to fix the stuff and they have a shortage of repairmen.

ETA : For the record we need to overhaul our immigration system its horribly broken, if people want to come here do the paper work I am still against illegal immigration.

originally posted by: MarkOfTheV
a reply to: saint4God

Mexicans do "great" work... assuming there is a white guy overseeing the job and watching them like a hawk. For every 1 hard working detail oriented trade worker, there are 100 fresh from the border that can barely dig a hole without direction.

Left to their own devices they notoriously cut corners and give zero fuc%s.

This is not a baseless assumption, this comes from over 150 combined years of family experience in the field and countless stories from others. It's practically an epidemic that is well known in the private contractor circles.

Combine this with how they live their lives (constant litter, broken down vehicles, over breeding, playing the language barrier game, painting houses BRIGHT blue or green, etc etc,) it's really no wonder so many are resistant to letting more and more in.


It's kind of amazing how much the "cheap labor" argument is thrown around... cheap labour yields cheap results. But by all means, go blow 700 on a cell phone that will be outdated in a year instead of getting a decent tile or paint job that could last decades or more when done correctly.

As a life long tradesman I can tell you the assement you make isn't completely wrong but it's misleading.

First off is lots of white tradesmen are lazy sloppy drunks. Proportionately probably more white people I worked with in Texas were drugged slobs than Mexicans.

The immigrant laborers skillset was proportional to the integrity of the employer. If they were a decent operation they trained and screened the immigrants like anyone else.

10 to 30 million illegals in this country aren't here as one off handi men. They are brought here by companies for projects and then left here. Or like in the case of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin booming so fast the Republican politicians were willing to let the illegals flock in to fill labor voids. Far worse than California because it was over a shorter time the larger population came in to build those cities literally flooding the demographics.


It's a mess but it's not one sides fault anymore than the other. They laughed their way to the bank together on this one.

originally posted by: Daalder
Hee...psst...it's not a secret, your country was founded by illegal immigrants.

Valid point, which is why I'm trying to figure out what changed.

How much inflation are you willing to take.

originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: Daalder
Hee...psst...it's not a secret, your country was founded by illegal immigrants.

Valid point, which is why I'm trying to figure out what changed.

Politicians decided to keep this a wedge issue instead of have some practical solutions. They can manipulate emotions with exenophobia particularly well if they are failing at their job and require a scapegoat to hang everything bad on.

originally posted by: donktheclown
a reply to: saint4God

We fear they'll bring their ideology, culture, crime, and language

I don't believe this is true. I believe we view those traits (except crime) as the basis and bedrock of our country. Immigration was essential at one point, not so much now. JMO.

I sincerely hope your right, just the assessment from what I've been reading on the thread so far.

a reply to: saint4God

Well, how about a question to answer a question.

Which is smarter, letting anyone who wants to come here in, or them fixing their own countries problems instead?

Ask yourself why is it that people fleeing bad countries segregate themselves, speak of the country they fled as superior to the US even though they ran away from their own country because it was so bad? Why do they not fight to fix their own countries?

There is no reason for instance Mexico is not as prosperous as the US. Educated citizens and plenty of natural resources say they should be our equal? So why do they run away to here?

They do it because they can. Because they know the border is weak and our laws are not enforced, so they take the weak persons way out, rather than changing their own countries.

Of course on top of that you have those who wish us harm and the drug cartel's and human traffickers taking advantage of the same weaknesses. Imagine what they would do if the border were suddenly open!

a reply to: luthier

Agreed. I think in different fields you're going to see variations on this topic.

I blame this on our cultural values and the education system putting more stock in sports than skilled trade. Somewhere along the line blue collar became associated with being low class or always broke. Even though I know many blue collars doing FAR better than white collar workers with no real world skills that just shove paper from one side of a desk to the other.

A school near me just blew 180 million on a new football stadium. Imagine how many scroll saws, drafting tables, t-squares, and blanks of balsa wood that would buy...

a reply to: MarkOfTheV


Yes its why I was so thrilled with Trump mentioning trade skills in his state of the union address, we have shoved massive student debt down the throats of people that don't need it for far to many years.