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Does the U.S.A. secretly love illegal immigrants?

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posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: TonyS
The biggest problem I see with the open borders policy is that 1) you don't really know who's in the country


I agree here, though the IRS seems to know, they're just not sharing the information with anyone.


originally posted by: TonyS
and 2) there's no health screening mechanism like the one operated at Ellis Island in the early 20th Century.


Also a good point I think, though I don't believe there's a bubonic plague-like threat.


originally posted by: TonyS
At the end of the day? None of these problems will ever be solved.


Through the power of ATS, we will solve the problems the world has been facing since the dawn of time together! I think somewhere between our two statements is the more likely outcome.




posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: GuidedKill



Sweet....so did you have an actual thought?


Yes, I expressed that thought. That is why I used the word "think".

Not sure how you missed that.



Or did you just want to attack the poster cause you have nothing running around in that empty head?? What part did you disagree with?


Almost all of it. None of it appears to be rooted in constitutional principles, therefore it is worthless in application.



Let me guess you're all for open boarders...You love people not giving back to the country they live in....You like people taking and taking...


More open borders, yes. I tend to advocate for more freedoms.

Old school hold-outs that want their countries to turtle usually do not push for more freedom. Quite the opposite, actually.



Is that you Merkel?


No. Can you not come up with something better than that? You must think I'm stupid if you think that is an intelligent response.



Are you also denying that every nations was built on cheap labor or slaves?


I do not deny that.


Haha the constitution doesn’t say anything about illegal immigration the way we’re discussing it today. Immigration laws like most laws are designed to uphold and defend the constitution. Besides what grants a foreigner protections under the American constitution?? Go ahead a spew that SCOTUS bull snip but you and I know no other country offers illegal immigrants protection under their constitutions or laws.


Oh and Believe me my friend you don’t need me to think you’re stupid.... plenty of others here think that for me. Besides you’re not really doing anything to help sway their opinion of you. Being an introvert like your name says, I’m sure you used to being alone... not only in your opinions.



edit on 4-4-2018 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: odzeandennz
Invaders coming to plunder ...

I wish Americans in America thought about protecting the borders, and use 'extreme vetting' when the Invaders and immigrants come flooding in.


Can you define 'extreme vetting' please?


originally posted by: odzeandennz
I wish the Americans in America decided to keep those immigrants from flooding in taking away from the culture,


Exactly what culture is being removed?


originally posted by: odzeandennz
land,


What land is being stolen?


originally posted by: odzeandennz
and slaughter American citizens,


Most of them are already American citizens already, just not United Statesians.


originally posted by: odzeandennz
even genocide on Americans.


Are you speaking of Native Americans?



originally posted by: odzeandennz
I wish Americans took a strong stance on borders... 500 years ago.
Little did the Americans living in America,know they would later have a label appended to their race because their country was being taken over by immigrants.

I wish they had lots of high caliber weapons to defend their country and home. Hey, maybe there would be more than just a handful original American lineage still alive today....


Early European settlers did have a stronger stance, the colonial conquest. The genocide of Native Americans numbered 70 to 114 million people killed in our Manifest Destiny.

Genocide and American Indians
edit on 4-4-2018 by saint4God because: Less pronouns



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
a reply to: GuidedKill

Plenty of American citizens don't speak English.


And that’s a problem... not saying you can’t speak your native toungue..but for gods sake reapect the country you live in and learn how to communicate there.


Hell even on vacation in another country I study for months about the language prior to visiting and try to speak the native language as much as I can while there. Who wouldn’t learn the language of the place they lived?

I find in most cases of illegal immigrants they know English but choose to play stupid when it suits them. Being of Mexican decent myself I remember my grandmother playing that game and she was a 1st generation born in the us. Just pretended not to speaka da English when dealing with Gringos.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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Hee...psst...it's not a secret, your country was founded by illegal immigrants.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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Can't delete posts anymore?

Okay, last line.
edit on 4-4-2018 by saint4God because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: Daalder
Hee...psst...it's not a secret, your country was founded by illegal immigrants.



Hey.... psst... it’s no secret, so was every other major country since the beginning of time. There isn’t a single nation that hasn’t been....



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: saint4God
BS on the carpentry. I was in the industry, with 0 illegals.


Certainly could be the case, but the hasty generalization (small number to represent the whole) does not include my experience and that of my neighbors.

All 3 of my roofers were from Honduras, had the opportunity to talk with them at length. Nice fellows, hard & fast workers, excellent job with hurricane nailing. The contractor explained that he can't get faster or more dedicated workers locally. Although I disagree with his statement, I think he was implying "that work at the wage that I'm playing". That's most likely the case.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: saint4God
BS on the carpentry. I was in the industry, with 0 illegals.


Certainly could be the case, but the hasty generalization (small number to represent the whole) does not include my experience and that of my neighbors.

All 3 of my roofers were from Honduras, had the opportunity to talk with them at length. Nice fellows, hard & fast workers, excellent job with hurricane nailing. The contractor explained that he can't get faster or more dedicated workers locally. Although I disagree with his statement, I think he was implying "that work at the wage that I'm playing". That's most likely the case.


That’s exactly what he meant. Grated most immigrants are hard workers and work circles around us lazy Americans. However that business owner only cares about the bottom line. And fact is time is money, and when you get more time for less money it’s no brainer for the roofer. Can you blame him?



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:26 PM
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I can't move into Canada or Mexico to live without proper documentation. Why should it not be the same way when it comes to them coming to live here. I do not hear of many Canadians coming here and causing crimes. There are a lot of people coming over the Mexican border illegally that are theives and deal drugs here. I am sure a few come over from Canada, but most people in Canada would not even want to downgrade themselves to come here and live, they get free healthcare there. Sure, we do have some specialty places like Mayo Clinic and a few others that are really good, but even I do not get to go there except when things are really bad.

People coming from other countries need to get legal to be here. It should not cost an arm and a leg to do that. They should also get a comparable wage of a citizen when working on a job, California discriminates against illegals a lot, they look the other way when they get services from a company cheaper.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: TreetopControl
I'm notsure how "secret" it is.


Neither am I, but I hear a lot of declaring the need to stop illegal immigration, close boarders, etc. and the country waving people to come on in through hiring & incentives.


originally posted by: TreetopControl
Clearly... about 1/2 of the US believes anybody with 2 legs that can walk over the border should be entitled to an education, ESL classes, section 8 housing, food stamps, utility subsidies, mass transit vouchers, and, oh yeah... voting rights. How do you think all that is working out for middle class, hard working Americans?


Edit-Oops, forgot the free medical. Just walk into any emergency room with anything from a headache to a woman in labor and there's no refusing service.

I guess this is the equation that I'm trying to work out mentally. If immigrants are costing more than they're paying, why the incentives? I will defend the ESL classes though, isn't the complaint that immigrants are unwilling to learn English? I'd think we'd all want them to. Although we have no official language, it's a lot easier than requiring us to learn the language of each different immigrant.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: saint4God



We fear they'll bring their ideology, culture, crime, and language


I don't believe this is true. I believe we view those traits (except crime) as the basis and bedrock of our country. Immigration was essential at one point, not so much now. JMO.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
I do not hear of many Canadians coming here and causing crimes.


You don't consider Celine Dion a crime against humanity?


What I don't understand is the differentiation of undocumented immigrants. Mexicans bad. Cubans OK. It was that way for years.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: crayzeed
Blimey, that's a really good one "United Statesians"!!!


Although I cannot take credit for the term, it seems the best descriptor.


originally posted by: crayzeed
I'll have to remember that one. Think on this one. What's the difference in where they come from compared to where they are trying to get?
Answer:- the land from which they came from (apart from a desert) is no different from the US. It's the people that makes the country, so if they are just running from a s#tty country why not just stay and change their own country.


The "why not" seems to because unlike the United States, the people do not have the power to stay and change their own country. Although I cannot speak to the motivations of immigrants, we do know that corruption south of the Texas border is rated significantly higher than above it (Corruption Perceptions Index). On a micro scale, I believe most people just want economic survival for themselves and their families, so a better indicator may be the Index of Economic Freedom

Canada beats us on both indices, so I suspect staying here is the next best thing.


originally posted by: crayzeed
Another answer:- they want what you have worked to achieve in your country without them having to suffer like you have had to do to achieve it.


I don't think 'suffering' in the U.S. is comparable to any true suffering elsewhere in the world. Oh no, our cell phone battery died. Tragedy. What ever will we do.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: GuidedKill



Haha the constitution doesn’t say anything about illegal immigration the way we’re discussing it today. Immigration laws like most laws are designed to uphold and defend the constitution.


True. What you posted does not seem to uphold any constitutional principles, whatsoever.



Besides what grants a foreigner protections under the American constitution?? Go ahead a spew that SCOTUS bull snip but you and I know no other country offers illegal immigrants protection under their constitutions or laws.


You do realize that is illogical, correct? What other countries offer is irrelevant.



Oh and Believe me my friend you don’t need me to think you’re stupid.... plenty of others here think that for me.


Another logical fallacy. Not even a good one at that.



Besides you you’re not really doing anything to help sway their opinion of you. Being an introvert like your name says, I’m sure you used to being alone... not only in your opinions.


Not only is that a weak "dis", but it's not even original. You're not the first person to use my username as a weak attempt to get at me.

At least try to come up with something good.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: GuidedKill
So what does ATS think?


Slavery and cheap labor are two different things. Slaves are forced, unpaid, no voting rights, no humanitarian protection. Cheap laborers are willing, can gain voting rights through citizenship, and humanitarian protections apply.

When dishing out a list of requirements, it's helpful to read them as if you yourself (or your forefathers since I'm fairly sure all of us had immigrants as forefathers) could/would qualify. Learning English sounds reasonable. Landmines at the border not so much.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: bender151

What kind of silly jump in logic is that? Just because I value our country's tradition of letting in immigrants looking for something better no matter their circumstances doesn't implicitly mean I need to shelter them in my house. In fact, that is the exact OPPOSITE of them getting something better. I'm just taking care of them instead of them doing it on their own.


Oh, I thought you'd be giving them jobs and charging them rent. But you just want other people to do that. Gotcha.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
That to me is why things should change, anyone that wants to become American is welcome and should be helped in my opinion. Folks looking for an economic boost should be forced to go through the process to be here legally.


I agree. The problem though is the process to be here legally is not the same as when our forefathers arrived in Jamestown, Ellis Island and other intended nation-building exercises. It is not as bad as slavery import from Africa & Asia, but there isn't the fairness that a lot of us benefited from.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: saint4God

I'm sure you checked the laborors for their green card to didn't you?
Your example sounds racist.
The carpenters union isn't a small group of carpenters. It is the biggest. Ot does the most building in the country.
You are making a bs argument about an industry you have zero knowledge of.


If your going to make a trash talking thread from the title on, at least put it in the mudpit.

Sorry pal, but open borders are a threat to national security in many ways, From backpack bombers, to drug mules, to social and medical services, to job reduction.

There great for democrats wanting voters who will pass their nazi policies though.
Americans aren't that stupid, but dangle citizenship carrot in front of some 3rd "worlders" and maybe they can push their garbage through.

Throw a little "think of the children" on top for the gullible, emotion-based liberals and you have the makings of a policy change.

It's obvious what is going on with this.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: saint4God

originally posted by: GuidedKill
So what does ATS think?


Slavery and cheap labor are two different things. Slaves are forced, unpaid, no voting rights, no humanitarian protection. Cheap laborers are willing, can gain voting rights through citizenship, and humanitarian protections apply.

When dishing out a list of requirements, it's helpful to read them as if you yourself (or your forefathers since I'm fairly sure all of us had immigrants as forefathers) could/would qualify. Learning English sounds reasonable. Landmines at the border not so much.


I read them like it was me. Because I like most people here are not far removed from their immigrant heritage. And I like most people here value, love and respect my country and what it has provided for me and my family. I cherish that and hate to see it taken advantage. My forefathers worked their asses off to get to this country and become citizens legally!! The other half of my forefathers were already here and you don't hear me bitching. I only want people to respect this country and the laws of this country. Only then will you be allowed to enjoy it's milk and honey.





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