Brexit - ‘No deal’ planning is well under way, says Minister

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You know aww the #e that Scotland has , its outshone by the gid folk and the country
there are bams , jakeys, junkies , schemey #s , you name it we have the worst of the lot
but even they can be sound on occasion.

I wouldnt trade Scotland for anywhere , even though we've got the midgies

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: sapien82
You are left with the idea in England post schooling that it is the third world, blimey what a shock it is to visit there. Only been Glasgow for one night and day but what an amzingly stunning place, the architecture is just mind blowing beautiful. Top place

I've thought the same from hearing people on ATS making out it is a depressed slum of poor people, and I'm sure there are deprived areas like all over Britain.
But from my times up there watching six nations rugby, and now investigating the cost of living there I am really struggling to understand what the whining is all aboot.
It costs way more to just live in Southern England, and the national minimum wage is the same all over the UK, not that I'm whining though, I choose to live here.

...and I totally understand why EU nationals choose to live and work in Scotland now, it's the promised land compared to down south lol

a reply to: TJames

If I had the choice coming to the UK and was given England or Scotland I'd probably choose Scotland .

Before I lived in the southside I stayed in Bridgeton in the East end and it was rough as a badgers arse
there are areas in Glasgow that look so #ing dangerous to go through, but the thing is , unless you know these people you wont get attacked or harassed like if you went into a housing estate in London , anyone is fair game. In Scotland at least from my own experience , bams aka Neds , only start #e with ye if you talk back , if you act like a beta male then your done for they will take you down like a pack of hyenas , but if you stand up and give them banter , or just go for the mouthy wee # first then they back off.

the first year I moved there Id seen 5 armed response raids of flats over the road from where I stayed a family of heroin dealers called the Fox's notorious in the east end Glasgow. My downstairs neighbour was a vicitim of armed robbery twice, because someone had said he was dealing heroin and that family didnt want him dealing on their turf. Of course this wasnt even the case and they basically broke in held an axe to his throat and robbed him.
A guy got shot dead in the back lane at the park behind my house .
The childrens nursery was next door to the rehab clinic and there'd be needles on eh ground etc.
If you are interested on how shady it is in Glasgow just pick up a copy of the digger!

Check it out on google earth have a wee wander round. hahah A DJ guy I know from the States from Detroit said that Glasgow just reminds him of Detroit in the 80's

The Digger

a reply to: sapien82

Blinkin amazing runners too compared to the English. That Mackie bloke and Wells true greats. Very beautiful ldies too. Scotland has much to offer the world and won our Empire for us on the battlefield when harnessed into the British army. A true super species

So why do some members whine continuously that life in Scotland is so bad?
Seems to me you've got it made up there. I'm almost tempted to check a move home to the NE of England now compared to my neck of the woods, rents, jobs etc. I keep reading posts on ATS where members make out it is some dark desolate wilderness of poverty.
I bet I could find work and cheap accommodation quickly and easily up there as well. EU nationals seem to like chasing the coin in that region of England as well so it can't be that bad.

a reply to: TJames

I think its what is known as collective pain body from generations of negativity

The commoners of Scotland have never really had it good to be fair , I mean they were always subject to the wealthy land owners decisions. it's the same everywhere, the commoners never really get it good and so have this collective pain body.
I think this can be applied to humans all over the planet , they hold onto generational pain and suffering like its stuck in the DNA and passed on.

It's hard not to think that way when in school the first scottish history you learn about is wealthy land owners throwing everyone of their land. The highland clearances. Then the wars of independence etc , Scotland just seems to have this really painful past. Everything was fought for , it was never the easy option.

Scottish people would convince ye that we put the great in great Britain, and in my opinion we wouldnt be wrong
but I like to think we have helped shape and mold the world not just Britain.
I just hope that there are still some decent Scottish people left to help mold the world into the future.


Anyway it seems we have drifted far enough into how awesome it is to be Scottish , a ken ye dinnae have to tell me how gid it is!

In your opinion what is the best outcome for the brexit talks, like realistically what is the most likely scenario of this whole dramatic period in UK politics

a reply to: sapien82

Interesting philosophical thoughts, I can only agree that could be a good explanation
Scot's have definitely punched above their population weight in making an impact in the world, that is for sure, and maybe the influx of EU nationals coming to live and work there because it is such a nice place will help that tradition continue.

I just checked a load of places in NE England as well, plenty of jobs, and accommodation is even cheaper, found houses for £50-60,000 and they don't look like slum areas! 5 Grand deposit, 45 grand mortgage, £200 a month repayments...people can only dream of that down south, yet still they whine up north as well.
I'm blown away by the differences in prices but absolutely understand why EU nationals move to your areas of the island...could save £50 a week, two years got the deposit then cheap as chips mortgage on a property you'll eventually own and pass on to your kids.
No brainer if I was moving to the UK...I wouldn't move here to the stupidly expensive South of England.

ETA
Just saw your edit.
So on topic, regarding Brexit I don't really give a toss either way but in an ideal world the EU will see that free trade is the best option for both of us. I'm a glass half full guy so I'm assuming even if we got stung with WTO rules we'll get by after some short/medium term challenges. Other non-EU nations survive okay enough, so will the UK.
I personally think a lot of the posturing is just the EU trying to discourage other nations getting the wrong idea, as well as realising the billions the group will lose after Britain stops being a net contributor.

I know one thing though, if I was going into negotiations I would absolutely threaten back that WTO is the way forward if they want to play hard ball. What's the point of haggling if the other party knows you'll # out if no agreement can be found.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: TJames
The commoners of Scotland have never really had it good to be fair

I'd say the same for us commoners in England. I grew up on a rough arse council estate in 70's/80's Britain, and our actual living your life world is vastly better than it was back then, from racism, gay-bashing, and wife beating to national strikes, violence, and real poverty...no fat kids back in them days.

I totally understand why EU nationals want to come here, it would be the same if Oz or NZ opened a free movement of workers thing with Britain, millions of us would move there, just a plane ticket and hard work, no bull# paperwork and visa's.

On that note, I'm happy for a WTO rule Brexit. Many non EU foods would suddenly become cheaper than they are while we are under the EU chair in the WTO. Our marketplace might change but business is business and any decent company/nation will adapt and take advantage of the change. I don't do "The sky is falling" I do "What is the best deal I can make in this situation I'm in?"

ETA
But I'm self employed so I say no deal is on the cards in any business negotiations. Why enter negotiations if the guy you're dealing with knows you won't walk if it's no deal? May as well just bend over or drop to your knees and get it over with without haggling.

originally posted by: TJames

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: TJames
The commoners of Scotland have never really had it good to be fair

I'd say the same for us commoners in England. I grew up on a rough arse council estate in 70's/80's Britain, and our actual living your life world is vastly better than it was back then, from racism, gay-bashing, and wife beating to national strikes, violence, and real poverty...no fat kids back in them days.

I totally understand why EU nationals want to come here, it would be the same if Oz or NZ opened a free movement of workers thing with Britain, millions of us would move there, just a plane ticket and hard work, no bull# paperwork and visa's.

On that note, I'm happy for a WTO rule Brexit. Many non EU foods would suddenly become cheaper than they are while we are under the EU chair in the WTO. Our marketplace might change but business is business and any decent company/nation will adapt and take advantage of the change. I don't do "The sky is falling" I do "What is the best deal I can make in this situation I'm in?"

ETA
But I'm self employed so I say no deal is on the cards in any business negotiations. Why enter negotiations if the guy you're dealing with knows you won't walk if it's no deal? May as well just bend over or drop to your knees and get it over with without haggling.

Fair answer

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Scotland has much to offer the world and won our Empire for us on the battlefield when harnessed into the British army.

That's a myth. Scottish regiments were proportionate to English regiments, or Welsh, or Irish. In the colonies the main forces were colonial soldiers recruited from the local population.

It's good to "big" Scotland up, but there has to be a reality check.

a reply to: paraphi

Fact of the matter is that troops from towns and cities all over the U.K have been roped into and shipped to far off shores to fight Westminster wars for centuries.

End of the day they die the same no matter what postcode they came from.

Same with those poor colonials that get involved in their nefarious shenanigans.

Seems to me it may be an idea if our politicians were to fight their own wars, chances are through there might not even be any wars without the accompanying cannon fodder.

On-topic-ish purely hypothetical question to anyone living in Scotland, if I may?

Let's say the UK drops out of the EU under WTO trading rules and it sparks massive calls for Scottish independence.
Let's also assume you call another referendum asking "Should Scotland remain a member of the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom? The vote goes for leave.

Would you wish to leave the UK under similar WTO rules if no deal could be reached? Most of your trade is with the UK so I'm genuinely curious how you'd enter negotiations for future trade.
Would you have the balls to tell the UK if no deal can be reached then WTO it is? Or would you enter negotiations showing your cards that WTO frightens you so much you'll take any deal?

I'm not trying to be inflamatory here, but I can see a potential Scotland/UK situation which would have exactly the same issues the trade deal negotiations as with EU/UK presently.

If you get independence and can continue to remain members of the EU then your trade deals with the UK will be decided by Brussells, and of course in such a situation of the UK under WTO rules it will be an interesting challenge for all three parties involved.
Thoughts?

a reply to: TJames

Too may hypotheticals.

The EU will want a weakened UK, as outside the EU the UK is a competitor who will work for their own interests. The best outcome for Germany and France now is that the UK will crash with a Labour government and a fragmentation of the Union, including problems in Ireland - hence the focus by the EU on the North / South arrangements.

When the UK leaves with WTO, or not, one thing is guaranteed. The Scottish nationalists will seek another referendum and another divisive and nasty little competition will start up. There's no guarantee of the outcome.

If Scotland leaves the UK they will have to reapply to join the EU, if that's what they really want. With the Spanish eyes on places like Catalonia there is no guarantee the EU will want that to happen quickly. The UK will work with Scotland to mitigate the impact of independence to both parties. The UK is pragmatic and not spiteful. Even the Scots may discover that breaking the shackles with the dictatorial EU has a plus side - just look at the market for Scottish whiskey outside of the EU controls that are designed to protect the French, or Maltese.

The Scots contributed greatly to securing the British Empire. In addition Scots Irish also did a massive amount of the settling overseas too

originally posted by: paraphi
The UK will work with Scotland to mitigate the impact of independence to both parties. The UK is pragmatic and not spiteful.

...well it knows which side its bread is buttered on for sure.
I'm not sure there is a hell of a lot of altruism in Westminster but yes, going all WTO rules on Scotland would probably be a poor choice.
That said though, the EU 'could' choose to allow Scotland as continuing members if it suited them dealing with the independent UK.
As you said too many variables...but variables neither you, I, or anyone else knows the answer to.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

A lot of them did not have much of a choice as to being resettled overseas.

Seeing how the major northern cities overwhelmingly voted remain and we can all see the mess that brexit is gonna be, lots of us northerners are gonna demand independence along with the sweaties.
Do enjoy seeing the desperate kipper types, who remember were told we would stay in the single market try and change tact, comedy gold.
Lest we forget...

www.bbc.co.uk...

originally posted by: Garmanarnar
Seeing how the major northern cities overwhelmingly voted remain and we can all see the mess that brexit is gonna be, lots of us northerners are gonna demand independence along with the sweaties.
Do enjoy seeing the desperate kipper types, who remember were told we would stay in the single market try and change tact, comedy gold.
Lest we forget...

nice bit of spin and fakery in your first paragraph.
Even the Beeb couldn't bring themselves to be quite as dishonest

a reply to: Garmanarnar

What's the whole 'northern England' thing?
It was a UK wide referendum.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Scotland has much to offer the world and won our Empire for us on the battlefield when harnessed into the British army.

That's a myth. Scottish regiments were proportionate to English regiments, or Welsh, or Irish. In the colonies the main forces were colonial soldiers recruited from the local population.

It's good to "big" Scotland up, but there has to be a reality check.

This ^