Trump in NYC says Australia has better health care -- it has a universal coverage system

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: seasonal

its not anti profit
it is pro communism

Oh please. You are being a drama queen now.

Australia, New Zealand and the UK all run the same sort of system. And they are all democratic nations. All of whom enjoy more freedom than in the USA.

Quantified by the Human Freedom Index

The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Hong Kong, Switzerland, New Zealand, Ireland, Denmark, Australia (6), Canada (6), the United Kingdom (6), Finland (9), and the Netherlands (10). The United States is ranked in 23rd place.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Flatfish

who gets to decide what is "appropriate"?

its not a far leap to let someone decide other aspects of your life are not "appropriate" is it?

why should other "services" get to profit?

You ever heard the old saying..... "You don't kick a man when he's down?"

Well, the answer to your question basically lies within the confines of what would be described as "Human Decency" and if you don't understand it's meaning, you probably deserve to live somewhere completely devoid of all public accommodations where total self reliance is mandatory.

But..... this is America and in this country we do some things together for the greater good of all. You know, like national defense.

Again, that doesn't mean that defense contractors aren't entitled to a fair profit for their services. (If you want to know what's fair which I suspect you do, ask Donald Trump as I've heard he's been demanding some cuts lately.). It means that our government shouldn't be making a profit off of providing national defense to it's citizens.

Healthcare is just one of the things we missed and it's time to fix that mistake and hopefully we can get our cost down and our results more favorable, just like the rest of the industrialized world.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Profit is what is left over after everything and everyone is paid.

I maybe be wrong, but you feed your kids with that money before profits are given (taken).

a reply to: seasonal

i choose to be a leprechaun,but that doesnt make it so
money is good but votes are needed to stay in office
drug companies dont get to vote

do drug companies in austrailia give money to politicians?
are new drugs free in austrailia? or do you need insurance for that?

a reply to: Flatfish

Again well said.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
does the insurance company make a profit?
is that "appropriate"?

When the Vikings sailed across over to England and raped & pillaged, it was entirely "appropriate" when they'd PROFIT from their endeavor?

Profiting from an effort isn't always INHERENTLY ethical and justified just because investments and work happened to be involved.

If we can't grasp a distinction and work towards a better future then our species is doomed (and deserves to be).

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: markosity1973

so if you want a voice in your own treatment you have to buy insurance?

that sounds vaguely familiar

does the insurance company make a profit?
is that "appropriate"?

Nope. You visit whatever Doctor you want and present your Medicare card. If you need a specialist appointment the Doctor will recommend one, but if you know of a specialist you like they can refer you to that person.

Every city has multiple public hopsitals and you can be admitted to any of them, provided they offer the service you need. Even country towns have public hospitals. I live in a area where I have no less than three towns with public hospitals within 1/2 hours drive should I ever have the need.

I don't understand where you get off on your profit hysteria. Everyone still makes a decent living out of healthcare. Doctors still drive Mercedes Benz and the likes here in Australia too you know.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: DanDanDat

Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.

And in that one statement you underline what is wrong with society.

You just take for granted that water comes out of taps, that the roads are there to drive on etc etc.

Without society to provide the basics you would be dead by now.

WHat you said above, is parroting the profit driven world you live in.

That is to say, you are profit driven. Only you can change that.

P

My father feed his family by working in water treatment. My Uncle worked on the roads. I'm well aware of where my water and roads come from.

They come from hard working people who try to give a little more to their families then they had. Maybe they were to profit driven... but because they where a whole lot of people got clean water to drink and got the rest of their needs delivered on those roads.

I can certainly change how profit driven I am; but who's going to change how profit driven every body else is?

Wages aren't profit, they're wages for Christ sake.

Profits are what the company owner or shareholders walked away with after all materials and employee wages were paid.

Can you begin to fathom the difference?

a reply to: markosity1973

hahaha
your index is fubar

the uk cant even separate itself from the eu

expression should not be less worthy than security
nice bs metric tho

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: DanDanDat

well guess i have wasted many years working to be self sufficient
son of a nutcracker
the govt should have been taking care of this

I don't think the Medicare system has been explained fully enough perhaps.

First and foremost, all healthcare is provided by the Government. It provides a basic, but adequate level of service that one can rely upon to take care of their health needs.

They pay a set amount to GP's but most also charge a 'gap fee' which is a price over and above what the govt pays. This can vary from practise to practise. So Doctors can and do set their own price. There are also 'no gap' surgeries where there is nothing to pay around, but the waiting times to see a Doctor there can be lengthy.

The same goes with specialist services - I had to go get an MRI scan done recently and was asked to pay a gap.

If surgeries are needed, like heart surgery there are usually 'wait lists' ie you get put on a list and wait for your turn to come around.

And this is where private cover comes in. It is the deluxe upgrade on the Medicare. One chooses the level of cover they want (as in basic surgery right through to everything up to and including GP visits) and apart from an excess, no gaps are paid and one can be admitted to a private hospital where wait lists are pretty much non existent.

So, we have a dual system. One that is free and does the job and one that is covered off by insurances that ensures a very high level of care with minimal wait time for surgery.

I have a lengthy set of family living in Australia; they have told me they are satisfied with their system and I believe they are right (they are family after all). So don't take what I question next as criticism of the system... It's just a question that I wonder evert time I read something like:

"One that is free and does the job" or "It provides a basic, but adequate level of service"

What/who gets to determine what is the adequate level of service.

Wait times is an easy example. You say less wait time is a premieam service... Why is this allowed? Why aren't people entitled to service on demand? And why do we not see shame in our selves as a society for not proving it?

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: DanDanDat

Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.

And in that one statement you underline what is wrong with society.

You just take for granted that water comes out of taps, that the roads are there to drive on etc etc.

Without society to provide the basics you would be dead by now.

WHat you said above, is parroting the profit driven world you live in.

That is to say, you are profit driven. Only you can change that.

P

My father feed his family by working in water treatment. My Uncle worked on the roads. I'm well aware of where my water and roads come from.

They come from hard working people who try to give a little more to their families then they had. Maybe they were to profit driven... but because they where a whole lot of people got clean water to drink and got the rest of their needs delivered on those roads.

I can certainly change how profit driven I am; but who's going to change how profit driven every body else is?

Wages aren't profit, they're wages for Christ sake.

Profits are what the company owner or shareholders walked away with after all materials and employee wages were paid.

Can you begin to fathom the difference?

So owners and shareholders should not make a wage? They should walk away with nothing?

What if my uncle was a privet contracter? His profits where most certainly his wage.

Do you not fathom the idea that the owner needs to make a living too?

a reply to: Flatfish

wow
please point out the shoulds and coulds in the constitution

if the founders wanted the govt in healthcare it would have been written in there
they did have doctors
those doctors did get paid

your human decency shaming strategy is crap
you fall back on it because you have no ground

costs arent "down" in the "industrialized" world they are hidden by a 40%tax rate to pay for their socialized system
which sounds like it only works if YOU STILL BUY INSURANCE

why are the brits brexiting? maybe because they dont want to foot the bill for ALL OF THE EU's healthcare?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

more shaming

we as a planet......

bs
the insurance companies in au profit

your example of au is a fail

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: DanDanDat

Profit is what is left over after everything and everyone is paid.

I maybe be wrong, but you feed your kids with that money before profits are given (taken).

Not if I feed my kids with the profits from my business.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: seasonal

OK , but will he go for universal health care ??. Oh hell no!!

YES HE WILL. Donald Trump LIKES Universal Healthcare.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) becomes law and fails.. Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.

If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) is killed in the Senate... Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.

ObamaCare will not be here in 2018, because too many health insurance companies are pulling the plug on their participation at the end of this year. As of right now, Iowa and S.E. Tennessee will not have any health insurance carriers after 12/31/2017.

a reply to: shooterbrody

The sum & value of Brody's existence is obviously measured solely in money on both accounts. Therefore a desperately sick society in terms of physical health is permissible due to coinage stipulations attached to treatments (medicines & so forth) and healing (physical therapy, surgery, etc)

I'd rather we as a country not be as empty, hollow & ethically worthless as that. This is the f%ing USA, we're supposed to be "best at everything". Obviously we are not when a sizable host of other countries keep steamrolling us in things as simple as healthy citizens.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I've never spoken about the AU system. I cant because I have no clue, therefore I wouldn't!

But this is the 'distinction' thing I was referring to: for merely criticizing the industry that exists here you're painting me into a corner that has a big red flag with a yellow hammer & sickle.

Get over the Binary Mentality already or you're just as big a part of the problem as Michael Moore.

a reply to: shooterbrody

only the "best" people?
how is that standard decided?

people not motivated by money or ego....that sounds like a childs fairy tale

You obviously have no idea about altruism and what it takes to be a health care worker. The system you are defending is one that puts money ahead of human health. It is unfortunately sociopaths such as yourself that generate inequality and support systems that restrict our growth as human beings. A mind that is preoccupied with profit and self will never understand how the intent behind an action can effect its outcome. Unfortunately the pompous and 2 dimensional attitude you exhibit suggests you have never managed to think beyond what society has thrown at you. Hopefully you are young and have time to learn

I was a scientist for many years and I was never interested in the money, I did it because I loved it and so did many others. I would rather be treated by someone who loved caring for people than by someone who just gets paid lots of money or has a huge ego.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: seasonal

OK , but will he go for universal health care ??. Oh hell no!!

YES HE WILL. Donald Trump LIKES Universal Healthcare.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) becomes law and fails.. Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.

If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) is killed in the Senate... Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.

ObamaCare will not be here in 2018, because too many health insurance companies are pulling the plug on their participation at the end of this year. As of right now, Iowa and S.E. Tennessee will not have any health insurance carriers after 12/31/2017.

That does seem to be the trajectory. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. Universal healthcare would at this point be so much easier for almost everyone involved.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: DanDanDat

well guess i have wasted many years working to be self sufficient
son of a nutcracker
the govt should have been taking care of this

I don't think the Medicare system has been explained fully enough perhaps.

First and foremost, all healthcare is provided by the Government. It provides a basic, but adequate level of service that one can rely upon to take care of their health needs.

They pay a set amount to GP's but most also charge a 'gap fee' which is a price over and above what the govt pays. This can vary from practise to practise. So Doctors can and do set their own price. There are also 'no gap' surgeries where there is nothing to pay around, but the waiting times to see a Doctor there can be lengthy.

The same goes with specialist services - I had to go get an MRI scan done recently and was asked to pay a gap.

If surgeries are needed, like heart surgery there are usually 'wait lists' ie you get put on a list and wait for your turn to come around.

And this is where private cover comes in. It is the deluxe upgrade on the Medicare. One chooses the level of cover they want (as in basic surgery right through to everything up to and including GP visits) and apart from an excess, no gaps are paid and one can be admitted to a private hospital where wait lists are pretty much non existent.

So, we have a dual system. One that is free and does the job and one that is covered off by insurances that ensures a very high level of care with minimal wait time for surgery.

I have a lengthy set of family living in Australia; they have told me they are satisfied with their system and I believe they are right (they are family after all). So don't take what I question next as criticism of the system... It's just a question that I wonder evert time I read something like:

"One that is free and does the job" or "It provides a basic, but adequate level of service"

What/who gets to determine what is the adequate level of service.

Wait times is an easy example. You say less wait time is a premieam service... Why is this allowed? Why aren't people entitled to service on demand? And why do we not see shame in our selves as a society for not proving it?

All good questions.

The MAJOR difference between our system and yours is the hospital service and prescriptions. Prescription medicines are subsidised, but the down side is that not necessarily all drugs that are available in the USA will be prescribed because of cost. So there is that.

And then

Hospitals.....

They are funded by the Government like any other department, so running at a profit is not a consideration. If they get more money, they simply hire more medical staff.

Based on the above, the Government decides what it will spend every year, divide the money up and appropriate it to the organisations it funds.

In reality it is not a supply and demand 'business' like a commercial hospital. They have a set budget to spend and it means that they have to prioritise certain services in order to make sure that life critical events are covered first. That means there might be say 1,000 spots allocated to hip replacement surgeries per year for a single hopsital, because one can live a little longer with a bung hip, vs a car crash victim who will die if they are not treated immediately. They might receive 1,100 patients who need said surgery, so 100 have to go on a wait list until a spot comes up. If there is extra cash, hospitals do use it to clear up waiting lists.

The other thing with public health is that your stay in hospital is kept as short as possible. As soon as you are able to manage your injury or health issue yourself or with family etc help they will discharge you to free up your bed space.

Private health cover means that you can access a private hospital that IS supply and demand and reduce the wait time to as soon as the surgeon is ready. Time in hospital can be a bit lengthier too as they are not under the same pressure to get your bed free because it is costing money to keep you there when they could be treating a new patient.

All in all, the system works and it works well. It is not perfect, but I am 44 years old and have only ever used the public system. I have had several surgeries in my life and multiple specialist appointments to diagnose Meniere's disease. I have never have to wait more than two weeks other than for one very minor, non life critical surgery and that was two months.