Trump in NYC says Australia has better health care -- it has a universal coverage system

We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.

a reply to: Charlyboy
The problem with altruism in the US is the concept is treated & regarded as an insult for the weak here. Sure, it's nice to throw around once in a while to sound smarter, but ultimately American society dictates that truly giving a damn about others and following through on it without expecting excessive and/or luxury rewards is a foreign concept that is mocked. If you don't aim to acquire money and stuff, you have no goal in life. THAT mindset shows just what kind of mentally damaged goods we are, so to speak -- when suggesting NFP approaches gets a negative visceral reaction.

a reply to: TruMcCarthy

THat's the liberal LIP SERIVCE anyways.

Since "both sides" get the same kickbacks from the larger industry, I have doubts about the truthiness of any of it no matter what "side" is doing the talking. The whole shell game with Big Pharm industry being all up in the guts of the whole government side of the game, the shenanigans that go down at the FDA in particular, I have serious doubts any of it is really ever supposed to change. Its all 'good' business for scheme whether globalists or not.

That's why it came as no surprise when the whole perception with Obamacare was we were supposed to get something along the lines of "socialized" medicine, and instead we got hardcore fascist MANDATORY insurance edict ordeal.

a reply to: shooterbrody

please point out the shoulds and coulds in the constitution

if the founders wanted the govt in healthcare it would have been written in there
they did have doctors
those doctors did get paid

your human decency shaming strategy is crap
you fall back on it because you have no ground

costs arent "down" in the "industrialized" world they are hidden by a 40%tax rate to pay for their socialized system
which sounds like it only works if YOU STILL BUY INSURANCE

why are the brits brexiting? maybe because they dont want to foot the bill for ALL OF THE EU's healthcare?

Wow dude I am shocked at your ignorance, you do realise the UK has universal health care right and you do understand why the Brits had a referendum don't you?

No you don't have to pay for insurance for your health care to work, you are talking about something you have no experience with and that unfortunately makes you a little redundant.

Everybody contributes a little and everyone gets free health care. There is a reason the people in the USA keep complaining about the cost of health care and the people of Australia, UK, France etc never complain about having free heath care and understand the need to provide for those less fortunate.

a reply to: Nyiah

Well I have been to the USA on more than a few occasions and I must say most of the people I met didn't seem to be quite so inwardly focused.

I guess I was raised to think about others and that I was to work to live not live to work. I have family in the USA and they do struggle with the cooperate greed but I always remind them that the bigger you are the harder you fall and one day it will all come crashing down, perpetual growth is never sustainable in a limited environment.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: DanDanDat

well guess i have wasted many years working to be self sufficient
son of a nutcracker
the govt should have been taking care of this

I don't think the Medicare system has been explained fully enough perhaps.

First and foremost, all healthcare is provided by the Government. It provides a basic, but adequate level of service that one can rely upon to take care of their health needs.

They pay a set amount to GP's but most also charge a 'gap fee' which is a price over and above what the govt pays. This can vary from practise to practise. So Doctors can and do set their own price. There are also 'no gap' surgeries where there is nothing to pay around, but the waiting times to see a Doctor there can be lengthy.

The same goes with specialist services - I had to go get an MRI scan done recently and was asked to pay a gap.

If surgeries are needed, like heart surgery there are usually 'wait lists' ie you get put on a list and wait for your turn to come around.

And this is where private cover comes in. It is the deluxe upgrade on the Medicare. One chooses the level of cover they want (as in basic surgery right through to everything up to and including GP visits) and apart from an excess, no gaps are paid and one can be admitted to a private hospital where wait lists are pretty much non existent.

So, we have a dual system. One that is free and does the job and one that is covered off by insurances that ensures a very high level of care with minimal wait time for surgery.

I have a lengthy set of family living in Australia; they have told me they are satisfied with their system and I believe they are right (they are family after all). So don't take what I question next as criticism of the system... It's just a question that I wonder evert time I read something like:

"One that is free and does the job" or "It provides a basic, but adequate level of service"

What/who gets to determine what is the adequate level of service.

Wait times is an easy example. You say less wait time is a premieam service... Why is this allowed? Why aren't people entitled to service on demand? And why do we not see shame in our selves as a society for not proving it?

All good questions.

The MAJOR difference between our system and yours is the hospital service and prescriptions. Prescription medicines are subsidised, but the down side is that not necessarily all drugs that are available in the USA will be prescribed because of cost. So there is that.

And then

Hospitals.....

They are funded by the Government like any other department, so running at a profit is not a consideration. If they get more money, they simply hire more medical staff.

Based on the above, the Government decides what it will spend every year, divide the money up and appropriate it to the organisations it funds.

In reality it is not a supply and demand 'business' like a commercial hospital. They have a set budget to spend and it means that they have to prioritise certain services in order to make sure that life critical events are covered first. That means there might be say 1,000 spots allocated to hip replacement surgeries per year for a single hopsital, because one can live a little longer with a bung hip, vs a car crash victim who will die if they are not treated immediately. They might receive 1,100 patients who need said surgery, so 100 have to go on a wait list until a spot comes up. If there is extra cash, hospitals do use it to clear up waiting lists.

The other thing with public health is that your stay in hospital is kept as short as possible. As soon as you are able to manage your injury or health issue yourself or with family etc help they will discharge you to free up your bed space.

Private health cover means that you can access a private hospital that IS supply and demand and reduce the wait time to as soon as the surgeon is ready. Time in hospital can be a bit lengthier too as they are not under the same pressure to get your bed free because it is costing money to keep you there when they could be treating a new patient.

All in all, the system works and it works well. It is not perfect, but I am 44 years old and have only ever used the public system. I have had several surgeries in my life and multiple specialist appointments to diagnose Meniere's disease. I have never have to wait more than two weeks other than for one very minor, non life critical surgery and that was two months.

That all makes perfect sense to me the level of basic coverage is decided by budget comity. How much money are we willing to spend this year? And than once that is decided, what shall we spend it on?

There is no fundamental basic level of healthcare; it's what ever soscity decides it shall be at any given point.

a reply to: Nyiah

glad you voiced your opinion
last nov may have been a more appropriate time for that
you and your shaming crew got voted out

"compassion" much like morality can not be legislated
compassion can be defined as correcting obamacare before our country is bankrupt and the entire country destroyed
"compassion" can be defined as collecting less taxes so people can buy healthier food

taking something from one person to give it to another is in no way compassionate

coinage stipulations
that is funny
you dont have to be empty ,hollow, and ethnically worthless you are free to relieve the coinage stipulations at your local hospital for those in need of medical attention at your own expense
it is called charity
you should try it

originally posted by: DanDanDat

There is no fundamental basic level of healthcare; it's what ever soscity decides it shall be at any given point.

No.

Never in my 44 years on this earth have I been told 'Oh I'm sorry, we've run out of funding, so you can't see a GP today'

Nor have I ever been told 'Oh I'm so sorry to tell you this, but you know that cancerous growth you have, it's not considered a health issue any more. So we're not going to treat it, sorry about that old chap'

Public hospitals use the triage model to the extreme and prioritise spending based on expected need and how critical the needed treatment is to survive.

Even things like crutches and wheel chairs are provided for free. (You just have to return them when you are better)

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: DanDanDat

Profit is what is left over after everything and everyone is paid.

I maybe be wrong, but you feed your kids with that money before profits are given (taken).

Not if I feed my kids with the profits from my business.

Why the hell are you not giving yourself a wage that can be budgeted around?

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: DanDanDat

Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.

And in that one statement you underline what is wrong with society.

You just take for granted that water comes out of taps, that the roads are there to drive on etc etc.

Without society to provide the basics you would be dead by now.

WHat you said above, is parroting the profit driven world you live in.

That is to say, you are profit driven. Only you can change that.

P

My father feed his family by working in water treatment. My Uncle worked on the roads. I'm well aware of where my water and roads come from.

They come from hard working people who try to give a little more to their families then they had. Maybe they were to profit driven... but because they where a whole lot of people got clean water to drink and got the rest of their needs delivered on those roads.

I can certainly change how profit driven I am; but who's going to change how profit driven every body else is?

Wages aren't profit, they're wages for Christ sake.

Profits are what the company owner or shareholders walked away with after all materials and employee wages were paid.

Can you begin to fathom the difference?

So owners and shareholders should not make a wage? They should walk away with nothing?

What if my uncle was a privet contracter? His profits where most certainly his wage.

Do you not fathom the idea that the owner needs to make a living too?

There are no "shareholders" in not-for-profit companies. There may be some donors, but I don't think they have shareholders. Mainly because there is no profit to share.

Shareholders only exist in publicly traded, for-profit companies and probably shouldn't be allowed in the healthcare field for that very reason.

In a proprietary business, the owner is entitled to both, a wage and a profit. Just like the defense contractor who builds armaments for our national defense. But, our government shouldn't profit from fighting wars.

When it comes to healthcare here in America, it's the taxpayers who provide the vast majority of all research & development money for new drugs and medical equipment while we allow the industry to reap unregulated profits off of the medical hardship of others and it's a disgrace, plain & simple.

Hell, MRI technology was developed in space under the NASA program with taxpayer dollars but somehow we don't get a dime of the profits currently being made with the procedure. Why is that?

Most, I believe somewhere around 75%, of all pharmaceutical research and development is funded with taxpayer dollars through medical university grants but again, we somehow got left out of all the profit making. Why is that?

Why don't we get any return on our public investment?

I'll tell you why that is, it's that way because our healthcare system here in America is f#*%ked up and needs fixing, that's why.

glad you voiced your opinion
last nov may have been a more appropriate time for that
you and your shaming crew got voted out

"compassion" much like morality can not be legislated
compassion can be defined as correcting obamacare before our country is bankrupt and the entire country destroyed
"compassion" can be defined as collecting less taxes so people can buy healthier food

taking something from one person to give it to another is in no way compassionate

coinage stipulations
that is funny
you dont have to be empty ,hollow, and ethnically worthless you are free to relieve the coinage stipulations at your local hospital for those in need of medical attention at your own expense
it is called charity
you should try it

a reply to: shooterbrody

I think you misunderstand compassion, in the countries where we have free health care we accept that a percentage of our tax goes to health and the vast majority of people give that without concern. We complain about wasted tax payer money, money spent on military projects but very rarely will you hear someone saying I don't want to pay an extra 3-5% tax so my fellow country men can be cared for if they get sick.

So much for your national pride and looking after each other, you should be embarrassed defending your health system mate, it's corporate USA at its best.

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.

One can only hope!

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: seasonal

OK , but will he go for universal health care ??. Oh hell no!!

YES HE WILL. Donald Trump LIKES Universal Healthcare.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) becomes law and fails.. Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.

If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) is killed in the Senate... Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.

ObamaCare will not be here in 2018, because too many health insurance companies are pulling the plug on their participation at the end of this year. As of right now, Iowa and S.E. Tennessee will not have any health insurance carriers after 12/31/2017.

That does seem to be the trajectory. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. Universal healthcare would at this point be so much easier for almost everyone involved.

A major obstacle to getting Universal Healthcare in America is that not enough people feel pain with the current system. Only 8%-10% of Americans feel the pain of ObamaCare. Everyone else is covered at work, or by the V.A., TRICARE, Medicaid, etc.. You'll find some people unhappy with these programs, but not enough of them to march the streets demanding Universal Healthcare for America.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: shooterbrody

only the "best" people?
how is that standard decided?

people not motivated by money or ego....that sounds like a childs fairy tale

You obviously have no idea about altruism and what it takes to be a health care worker. The system you are defending is one that puts money ahead of human health. It is unfortunately sociopaths such as yourself that generate inequality and support systems that restrict our growth as human beings. A mind that is preoccupied with profit and self will never understand how the intent behind an action can effect its outcome. Unfortunately the pompous and 2 dimensional attitude you exhibit suggests you have never managed to think beyond what society has thrown at you. Hopefully you are young and have time to learn

I was a scientist for many years and I was never interested in the money, I did it because I loved it and so did many others. I would rather be treated by someone who loved caring for people than by someone who just gets paid lots of money or has a huge ego.

you are full of crap
i worked in the intensive care unit at a hospital for a couple of years as a monitor tech
i am not a sociopath and you resorting to calling me names demonstrates the lack of credibility in your post
i am proud to have generated some inequality, all men are created equal; lazy ones never progress past that and are content with all things equal
i would submit lazy asses crying about inequality will never advance the human race as it would take effort
i do not believe you had anything to do with science as it requires logic which does not appear in your post

good day

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.

One can only hope!

Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Flatfish

wow
please point out the shoulds and coulds in the constitution

if the founders wanted the govt in healthcare it would have been written in there
they did have doctors
those doctors did get paid

your human decency shaming strategy is crap
you fall back on it because you have no ground

costs arent "down" in the "industrialized" world they are hidden by a 40%tax rate to pay for their socialized system
which sounds like it only works if YOU STILL BUY INSURANCE

why are the brits brexiting? maybe because they dont want to foot the bill for ALL OF THE EU's healthcare?

FYI, when the founding fathers put together the U.S. Constitution, they created what is called "a living document."

It has been amended 27 times since it's original draft and I suspect it will receive further amendments in the future. It was meant to be changed or amended when the need arose, hence the term "Living Document."

You wouldn't have the Bill of Rights if our constitution hadn't been amended, so please don't pretend to know all the wants and needs of the founding fathers based on the original document that they wrote because it was far from complete at the time.

Furthermore, can you show me a place in the Constitution where it forbids or prohibits universal healthcare?

Does it say we can't have it?

No....... I didn't think so.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Nyiah

glad you voiced your opinion
last nov may have been a more appropriate time for that
you and your shaming crew got voted out

Way to assume, brah. Libertarian voter here. I highly suggest you stop assuming everyone is either R or D, because it's just not the case, and it's getting real old.

"compassion" much like morality can not be legislated
compassion can be defined as correcting obamacare before our country is bankrupt and the entire country destroyed
"compassion" can be defined as collecting less taxes so people can buy healthier food

I'd argue compassion would be fixing the food price fixing that makes a bag of potato chips significantly cheaper than a bag of apples, a pound of processed hot dogs far cheaper than a pound of leaner beef, and soda cheaper than milk or even bottled water. I'd love to hear how lowered taxes will solve that lopsided BS.

Also --

compassion
noun
mass noun

Sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.
‘the victims should be treated with compassion’

en.oxforddictionaries.com...

coinage stipulations
that is funny
you dont have to be empty ,hollow, and ethnically worthless you are free to relieve the coinage stipulations at your local hospital for those in need of medical attention at your own expense
it is called charity
you should try it

It IS funny, isn't it! Beyond sufficient charges to cover the operational overhead costs, there's no need for excessive medical charges -- IE profit. Maybe in a third world country where they pay off shakedowns, but not in the US.

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.

One can only hope!

Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.

At least I get a say/vote on who those people are and I get the opportunity to replace them with every election. Hell, I can even run for the position myself!

What voice do you have with your profit driven healthcare insurance provider?

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.

Their collusion / conspiracies with Big Pharm / etc (via lobbyists / FDA / etc) is why its so screwed up to begin with.

Can we all at least agree that the industry as it is is FUBAR?

Or does simply saying that make one part of the 'globalist' / communist / etc Agenda???

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.

One can only hope!

Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.

At least I get a say/vote on who those people are and I get the opportunity to replace them with every election. Hell, I can even run for the position myself!

What voice do you have with your profit driven healthcare insurance provider?

If we had true market healthcare, I could choose my provider, and the best provider would get my business. That's competition and the market at work, it's far better than corrupt government control.