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please point out the shoulds and coulds in the constitution
if the founders wanted the govt in healthcare it would have been written in there
they did have doctors
those doctors did get paid
your human decency shaming strategy is crap
you fall back on it because you have no ground
costs arent "down" in the "industrialized" world they are hidden by a 40%tax rate to pay for their socialized system
which sounds like it only works if YOU STILL BUY INSURANCE
why are the brits brexiting? maybe because they dont want to foot the bill for ALL OF THE EU's healthcare?
originally posted by: markosity1973
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: markosity1973
originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: DanDanDat
well guess i have wasted many years working to be self sufficient
son of a nutcracker
the govt should have been taking care of this
I don't think the Medicare system has been explained fully enough perhaps.
First and foremost, all healthcare is provided by the Government. It provides a basic, but adequate level of service that one can rely upon to take care of their health needs.
They pay a set amount to GP's but most also charge a 'gap fee' which is a price over and above what the govt pays. This can vary from practise to practise. So Doctors can and do set their own price. There are also 'no gap' surgeries where there is nothing to pay around, but the waiting times to see a Doctor there can be lengthy.
The same goes with specialist services - I had to go get an MRI scan done recently and was asked to pay a gap.
If surgeries are needed, like heart surgery there are usually 'wait lists' ie you get put on a list and wait for your turn to come around.
And this is where private cover comes in. It is the deluxe upgrade on the Medicare. One chooses the level of cover they want (as in basic surgery right through to everything up to and including GP visits) and apart from an excess, no gaps are paid and one can be admitted to a private hospital where wait lists are pretty much non existent.
So, we have a dual system. One that is free and does the job and one that is covered off by insurances that ensures a very high level of care with minimal wait time for surgery.
I have a lengthy set of family living in Australia; they have told me they are satisfied with their system and I believe they are right (they are family after all). So don't take what I question next as criticism of the system... It's just a question that I wonder evert time I read something like:
"One that is free and does the job" or "It provides a basic, but adequate level of service"
What/who gets to determine what is the adequate level of service.
Wait times is an easy example. You say less wait time is a premieam service... Why is this allowed? Why aren't people entitled to service on demand? And why do we not see shame in our selves as a society for not proving it?
All good questions.
The MAJOR difference between our system and yours is the hospital service and prescriptions. Prescription medicines are subsidised, but the down side is that not necessarily all drugs that are available in the USA will be prescribed because of cost. So there is that.
And then
Hospitals.....
They are funded by the Government like any other department, so running at a profit is not a consideration. If they get more money, they simply hire more medical staff.
Based on the above, the Government decides what it will spend every year, divide the money up and appropriate it to the organisations it funds.
In reality it is not a supply and demand 'business' like a commercial hospital. They have a set budget to spend and it means that they have to prioritise certain services in order to make sure that life critical events are covered first. That means there might be say 1,000 spots allocated to hip replacement surgeries per year for a single hopsital, because one can live a little longer with a bung hip, vs a car crash victim who will die if they are not treated immediately. They might receive 1,100 patients who need said surgery, so 100 have to go on a wait list until a spot comes up. If there is extra cash, hospitals do use it to clear up waiting lists.
The other thing with public health is that your stay in hospital is kept as short as possible. As soon as you are able to manage your injury or health issue yourself or with family etc help they will discharge you to free up your bed space.
Private health cover means that you can access a private hospital that IS supply and demand and reduce the wait time to as soon as the surgeon is ready. Time in hospital can be a bit lengthier too as they are not under the same pressure to get your bed free because it is costing money to keep you there when they could be treating a new patient.
All in all, the system works and it works well. It is not perfect, but I am 44 years old and have only ever used the public system. I have had several surgeries in my life and multiple specialist appointments to diagnose Meniere's disease. I have never have to wait more than two weeks other than for one very minor, non life critical surgery and that was two months.
originally posted by: DanDanDat
There is no fundamental basic level of healthcare; it's what ever soscity decides it shall be at any given point.
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: DanDanDat
Profit is what is left over after everything and everyone is paid.
I maybe be wrong, but you feed your kids with that money before profits are given (taken).
Not if I feed my kids with the profits from my business.
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: Flatfish
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: DanDanDat
Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.
And in that one statement you underline what is wrong with society.
You just take for granted that water comes out of taps, that the roads are there to drive on etc etc.
Without society to provide the basics you would be dead by now.
WHat you said above, is parroting the profit driven world you live in.
That is to say, you are profit driven. Only you can change that.
P
My father feed his family by working in water treatment. My Uncle worked on the roads. I'm well aware of where my water and roads come from.
They come from hard working people who try to give a little more to their families then they had. Maybe they were to profit driven... but because they where a whole lot of people got clean water to drink and got the rest of their needs delivered on those roads.
I can certainly change how profit driven I am; but who's going to change how profit driven every body else is?
Wages aren't profit, they're wages for Christ sake.
Profits are what the company owner or shareholders walked away with after all materials and employee wages were paid.
Can you begin to fathom the difference?
So owners and shareholders should not make a wage? They should walk away with nothing?
What if my uncle was a privet contracter? His profits where most certainly his wage.
Do you not fathom the idea that the owner needs to make a living too?
a reply to: shooterbrody
glad you voiced your opinion
last nov may have been a more appropriate time for that
you and your shaming crew got voted out
"compassion" much like morality can not be legislated
compassion can be defined as correcting obamacare before our country is bankrupt and the entire country destroyed
"compassion" can be defined as collecting less taxes so people can buy healthier food
taking something from one person to give it to another is in no way compassionate
coinage stipulations
that is funny
you dont have to be empty ,hollow, and ethnically worthless you are free to relieve the coinage stipulations at your local hospital for those in need of medical attention at your own expense
it is called charity
you should try it
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.
originally posted by: DanDanDat
originally posted by: carewemust
originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: seasonal
OK , but will he go for universal health care ??. Oh hell no!!
YES HE WILL. Donald Trump LIKES Universal Healthcare.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) becomes law and fails.. Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.
If the American Health Care Act (AHCA) is killed in the Senate... Say Hello to Universal Healthcare.
ObamaCare will not be here in 2018, because too many health insurance companies are pulling the plug on their participation at the end of this year. As of right now, Iowa and S.E. Tennessee will not have any health insurance carriers after 12/31/2017.
That does seem to be the trajectory. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. Universal healthcare would at this point be so much easier for almost everyone involved.
originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: shooterbrody
only the "best" people?
how is that standard decided?
people not motivated by money or ego....that sounds like a childs fairy tale
You obviously have no idea about altruism and what it takes to be a health care worker. The system you are defending is one that puts money ahead of human health. It is unfortunately sociopaths such as yourself that generate inequality and support systems that restrict our growth as human beings. A mind that is preoccupied with profit and self will never understand how the intent behind an action can effect its outcome. Unfortunately the pompous and 2 dimensional attitude you exhibit suggests you have never managed to think beyond what society has thrown at you. Hopefully you are young and have time to learn
I was a scientist for many years and I was never interested in the money, I did it because I loved it and so did many others. I would rather be treated by someone who loved caring for people than by someone who just gets paid lots of money or has a huge ego.
originally posted by: Flatfish
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.
One can only hope!
originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Flatfish
wow
please point out the shoulds and coulds in the constitution
if the founders wanted the govt in healthcare it would have been written in there
they did have doctors
those doctors did get paid
your human decency shaming strategy is crap
you fall back on it because you have no ground
costs arent "down" in the "industrialized" world they are hidden by a 40%tax rate to pay for their socialized system
which sounds like it only works if YOU STILL BUY INSURANCE
why are the brits brexiting? maybe because they dont want to foot the bill for ALL OF THE EU's healthcare?
originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Nyiah
glad you voiced your opinion
last nov may have been a more appropriate time for that
you and your shaming crew got voted out
"compassion" much like morality can not be legislated
compassion can be defined as correcting obamacare before our country is bankrupt and the entire country destroyed
"compassion" can be defined as collecting less taxes so people can buy healthier food
compassion
noun
mass noun
Sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.
‘the victims should be treated with compassion’
coinage stipulations
that is funny
you dont have to be empty ,hollow, and ethnically worthless you are free to relieve the coinage stipulations at your local hospital for those in need of medical attention at your own expense
it is called charity
you should try it
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
originally posted by: Flatfish
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.
One can only hope!
Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.
originally posted by: Flatfish
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
originally posted by: Flatfish
originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
We (those who are in the know), know that Obamacare was Designed to fail in order to force us into a government-run single-payer healthcare system. The plan has gone perfectly. Within 10 years we will be a single-payer, you can't stop the Leftist-Globalist agenda.
One can only hope!
Not this one. But hey, if you want corrupt bureaucrats and lifetime politicians controlling your healthcare and life, more power to you. I'm sure they really care about you.
At least I get a say/vote on who those people are and I get the opportunity to replace them with every election. Hell, I can even run for the position myself!
What voice do you have with your profit driven healthcare insurance provider?