Trump in NYC says Australia has better health care -- it has a universal coverage system

a reply to: seasonal

didn't we elect them to make these decisions?

if they dont decide who will?

or are you saying the us govt should get out of healthcare?

a reply to: seasonal

The Australian Medicare-system is fair and has as its central tenet the health and welfare of the individual citizen - not corporations and not insurance companies, we can also have our doctor if we want to keep our doctor and now bulk-billing is also making a return.

Other than the increase in surcharges a few years back, I can't remember the last time there were any dramas with the system.

a reply to: shooterbrody

You missed the point. The link is to a story on the amount of $$$ the drug co's spend on lobbying.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: seasonal

thank for clearing up what profits are

so the govt will decide what drs make?
who would then want to be a dr?

just where and when are profits appropriate?

It's not appropriate for your local fire department to profit off it's services. The same is true for public police protection.

It's not appropriate to provide public education based on a profit margin.

It's not appropriate to make a profit from disaster relief. You know, like the Red Cross. Otherwise it would be called disaster opportunity.

Any "public service industry" should be performed on a not for profit basis.

The same is true for healthcare, it should not be constructed around a for profit model, lest the poor wouldn't get any care at all.

This doesn't mean that doctors, teachers, firefighters, policemen, disaster relief workers, etc. don't earn a living.

You could ask the same question of any of those professions, "Who would want to become one?" And the answer would be... Someone.

And yes just like here in America, doctors earn more than the average bear.

Probably has a lot to do with the years of extra education required in order to be qualified to perform the task.

Go figure!

a reply to: seasonal

the elected officials still vote dont they?

do drug makers not get to spend their money as they choose?

a reply to: Flatfish

who gets to decide what is "appropriate"?

its not a far leap to let someone decide other aspects of your life are not "appropriate" is it?

why should other "services" get to profit?

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: DanDanDat

Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.

And in that one statement you underline what is wrong with society.

You just take for granted that water comes out of taps, that the roads are there to drive on etc etc.

Without society to provide the basics you would be dead by now.

WHat you said above, is parroting the profit driven world you live in.

That is to say, you are profit driven. Only you can change that.

P

My father feed his family by working in water treatment. My Uncle worked on the roads. I'm well aware of where my water and roads come from.

They come from hard working people who try to give a little more to their families then they had. Maybe they were to profit driven... but because they where a whole lot of people got clean water to drink and got the rest of their needs delivered on those roads.

I can certainly change how profit driven I am; but who's going to change how profit driven every body else is?

a reply to: shooterbrody

This subject goes far beyond the simple merits of getting paid for your work.

And that statement, any of my work herein, isn't even to give props to the 'not for profit' / socialized / whatever position(s).

As Dr. Ron Paul said, (paraphrasing) 'the medical industry is the only one we know about where the more people use it the more the costs for even the most basic materials / products used within it go up the more they are used' (which is the exact opposite of the Economies of Scale that all other industries / products operate by).

Then there's angles such as how the drug companies enjoy like millions of dollars in grants per drug they develop, and then never have to pay it back, but then charge out the whazoo once they take it to market (such as $10,000+ PER DOSE of cancer "chemo" drugs).

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: pheonix358

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: pheonix358

what other industries are "wrong" to make profits?

In my footer is a book link. It spells out another system based on needs and wants. The needs should be met by society and the wants / desires you need to work for.

Unbridled profits are simply wrong but humanity has lost its humanity.

P

Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.

Policemen, firefighters, teachers, social workers and many, many more.

When you get right down to it, most people work for the needs of society. Some more directly than others.

But knowing how you feel about the subject, I'm glad you don't work for the needs of society either. I doubt you'd be a very happy or productive worker.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

But they haven't fixed your cataracts yet.......

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: seasonal

thank for clearing up what profits are

so the govt will decide what drs make?
who would then want to be a dr?

just where and when are profits appropriate?

It's not appropriate for your local fire department to profit off it's services. The same is true for public police protection.

It's not appropriate to provide public education based on a profit margin.

It's not appropriate to make a profit from disaster relief. You know, like the Red Cross. Otherwise it would be called disaster opportunity.

Any "public service industry" should be performed on a not for profit basis.

The same is true for healthcare, it should not be constructed around a for profit model, lest the poor wouldn't get any care at all.

This doesn't mean that doctors, teachers, firefighters, policemen, disaster relief workers, etc. don't earn a living.

You could ask the same question of any of those professions, "Who would want to become one?" And the answer would be... Someone.

And yes just like here in America, doctors earn more than the average bear.

Probably has a lot to do with the years of extra education required in order to be qualified to perform the task.

Go figure!

How come you didn't list the food supply industry? Farmers? Truck drivers? Grocers? They all provide a public service. Why do they get a pass on making the profit?

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: pheonix358

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: pheonix358

what other industries are "wrong" to make profits?

In my footer is a book link. It spells out another system based on needs and wants. The needs should be met by society and the wants / desires you need to work for.

Unbridled profits are simply wrong but humanity has lost its humanity.

P

Who works for society needs? ... I sure hope it isn't me, I only want to have to work for my wants and desires.

Policemen, firefighters, teachers, social workers and many, many more.

When you get right down to it, most people work for the needs of society. Some more directly than others.

But knowing how you feel about the subject, I'm glad you don't work for the needs of society either. I doubt you'd be a very happy or productive worker.

How do you know I don't work for the needs of society. As you said most people do? My particular line of work fulfills the societal need of protection. It's a great feeling to know I provide for this need ... But feelings don't feed my kids ... profit off the work I do feeds my kids. It's great that I get to profit while at the same time feel good about the work I do for society.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

so who gets to profit at their work and who does not?
will the govt also tell an artist what is "appropriate" to charge for a painting or a song?

this is smoke cloud bs

great drs should make more than crappy ones

the socialist models you are all praising are not "free"
the govt devides how much you pay
and you still have to buy private insurance to get the care you want
sounds like an even biger scam

a reply to: Flatfish

Wow, I have never heard the profit motive explained in such an easy to understand way. 100% correct.



Can I steal some of your material?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: DanDanDat

well guess i have wasted many years working to be self sufficient
son of a nutcracker
the govt should have been taking care of this

I don't think the Medicare system has been explained fully enough perhaps.

First and foremost, all healthcare is provided by the Government. It provides a basic, but adequate level of service that one can rely upon to take care of their health needs.

They pay a set amount to GP's but most also charge a 'gap fee' which is a price over and above what the govt pays. This can vary from practise to practise. So Doctors can and do set their own price. There are also 'no gap' surgeries where there is nothing to pay around, but the waiting times to see a Doctor there can be lengthy.

The same goes with specialist services - I had to go get an MRI scan done recently and was asked to pay a gap.

If surgeries are needed, like heart surgery there are usually 'wait lists' ie you get put on a list and wait for your turn to come around.

And this is where private cover comes in. It is the deluxe upgrade on the Medicare. One chooses the level of cover they want (as in basic surgery right through to everything up to and including GP visits) and apart from an excess, no gaps are paid and one can be admitted to a private hospital where wait lists are pretty much non existent.

So, we have a dual system. One that is free and does the job and one that is covered off by insurances that ensures a very high level of care with minimal wait time for surgery.

a reply to: seasonal

its not anti profit
it is pro communism

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

so who gets to profit at their work and who does not?
will the govt also tell an artist what is "appropriate" to charge for a painting or a song?

this is smoke cloud bs

great drs should make more than crappy ones

the socialist models you are all praising are not "free"
the govt devides how much you pay
and you still have to buy private insurance to get the care you want
sounds like an even biger scam

Why would should anyone be aloud to be an artist? Next to fireman, policeman and Doctors art is pretty low on the societal needs scale. I might argue art is a want and desire; you need to work extra if you want to make art.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

the socialist models you are all praising are not "free"

I havent praised anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've merely pointed out some of the pitfalls of the ruthless system we have, that I happen to know about so far.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I choose to be logical and deduce that the $$$ is swaying opinions in the corp direction. If you think that is not the case, that is allowed. Remember reelection is around the corner.....

a reply to: markosity1973

so if you want a voice in your own treatment you have to buy insurance?

that sounds vaguely familiar

does the insurance company make a profit?
is that "appropriate"?